What about animals killed in crop harvesting? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-18-2008, 01:34 PM
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So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?
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#2 Old 10-18-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikecows View Post

So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?



It's not intentional, and it's not exploiting those animals. There's a big difference between something that is possibly and not intentionally going on, than something that is definitely, intentionally, 100% exploiting and harming those animals. A BIG difference, if someone can't see that then they obviously have some issues they need to work on.



Don't ever feel like you need to answer questions like that, honestly it's nobody's business to try and make you feel ****ty for trying to be a decent human being.
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#3 Old 10-18-2008, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikecows View Post

So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?



i've wondered the same thing. seems like pesticides would do the most harm to the resident animals. i'd like to see some statistics on this issue...





but there's always the counter argument that it takes several times the grain to raise farm animals than it does to consume directly, so when you eat animals and animal products, you're also harming something like 5 to 10 times the number of animals effected by agriculture than you would on a vegan diet.
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#4 Old 10-18-2008, 07:03 PM
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grow your own!





....if feasible
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#5 Old 10-18-2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikecows View Post

So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?



what argument?

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#6 Old 10-18-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikecows View Post

So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?

I've always thought the same thing. It seems to me that only omnis would assume that other animals are so stupid that they would hang around in wheat, corn, and soybean fields and get caught in the harvesting machines. And I've never seen anyone who makes this claim back it up with numbers or studies. I would guess that there is a lot more activity in the storage areas after the grains are harvested, but people who purchase organic grains aren't supporting the use of pesticides around stored grain anyway, so that's one way to minimize your impact.



People who make this argument are full of crap, though, and its best to answer them like some of the others suggested; that if they are so worried about all those animal deaths caused by harvesting crops, not eating the animals these crops are fed to will reduce the total number of dead animals they are responsible for.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#7 Old 10-18-2008, 08:26 PM
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Of course it's so much easier to just be vegan, not use shampoo that's got honey in it, than to educate yourself about the real source of problems.
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#8 Old 10-18-2008, 08:51 PM
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Meh you know omnis. They will use any stupid excuse to continue their ways. People are so defensive about their diets.



Maybe because deep down they know it's wrong.

But seriously. Those animals in fields were free to be there. And free to leave.
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#9 Old 10-18-2008, 09:43 PM
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If we can find ways to minimize animal death/suffering caused by crop harvesting, then we should do so.
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#10 Old 10-18-2008, 10:54 PM
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I'm a horrible "person", my shoes slaughter many ants everyday.
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#11 Old 10-19-2008, 12:06 AM
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i don't think it's an issue that should be brushed off, personally. veganism doesn't merely encompass personal dietary habits. we're all responsible of some degree of harm to animals and the environment (which is where animals, you know, live) and i think we should at least own up to it rather than dismiss it, especially in the presence of an omni. if we're going to deny personal responsibility for contributing to the devastation of animals and their habitats, why shouldn't they? the emphasis should definitely be on reduction of harm as opposed to the purity of personal actions, but perhaps we should all be striving for the latter and recognizing that we have and may never reach it.
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#12 Old 10-19-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numinant View Post

but there's always the counter argument that it takes several times the grain to raise farm animals than it does to consume directly, so when you eat animals and animal products, you're also harming something like 5 to 10 times the number of animals effected by agriculture than you would on a vegan diet.



Exactly, which means adopting a vegan lifestyle is one of the ways of reducing harm to animals again in this way.



Gardens and allotments are a great place to grow as much of your own stuff as possible too, as well as buying organic where possible
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#13 Old 10-20-2008, 10:28 AM
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My coworker (who lives on dead cows, soda, and sugar cereal) seems very disturbed by my veganism, as he brings it up every time he can. He's fond of reminding me that I can't eat bread because of the field mice that are killed during the wheat harvest.



I just shrug it off and say, "Field mice *might* die is an argument in favor of slaughtering cows?" Maybe I should tell him, "Since there's no food that I can eat without the possibility of harming animals during its production, I am contemplating killing myself... for the animals' sake."
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#14 Old 10-20-2008, 12:19 PM
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No one has ever brought this argument up to me before but I can see the point but then vegans try to live by causing the least harm to animals. We live in the real world. Also if some field animals are killed in the production of crops that is a side effect not a direct intention.
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#15 Old 10-20-2008, 12:46 PM
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I don't think anyone is brushing the issue off. It does merit serious discussion amongst those who sincerely care.



But not when the person who is making the claim is doing so in between mouthfuls of cow carcass.

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#16 Old 10-20-2008, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikecows View Post

So i keep getting this argument and i was wondering,

wouldn't the little critters run when they heard the machines coming??

wouldn't birds fly away??

it just doesn't seem realistic that so many animals are being killed during harvesting.

or is it just me?



I've heard this before and they usually refer to a guy named "Dave" or something that states if all American's went vegan 1 billion insects, rodents, and even deer (wat?) would be killed to feed us. This is wrong for so many reasons, one being the fact that his methods of quanitifying the number of insects, rodents, etc on a plot of land and then applying to all farming land is unscientific. Moreover, it remains a fact that 9 billion chickens, 36 million cattle, and millions more pigs, turkeys, fish and so on are killed each year in the U.S. alone. from the USDA:



http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/Mann...ocumentID=1497



Numinant also brought up a good point, livestock eat their share of crops too:

Quote:
Not bio-fuel, but animals raised for meat are the main reason for the growing shortage of food in the world. One-third of the annual global food production is used for feeding animals specially bred and fattened to be killed for their flesh. If the crops fed to them were to be consumed by humans, there would be no shortage.

http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrele...0804208909.htm



So I will note that to anyone who brings up insect/plant welfare and 100% of the time in my experience they will shrug and say whatever like the cowards they are. People who are dumb enough to bring up those excuses are not worth your time.
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#17 Old 10-20-2008, 04:42 PM
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What do animals raised for food eat? They eat far more from the field than what it takes to produce an equivalent amount of meat. So while there is some validity to the fact that animals are still harmed to produce a vegetarian diet (unless you grow everything yourself), the number should be far less.



From my own personal experience, the number of animals killed during harvesting seems to be far less than I would have guessed. Last fall and this fall I've been helping my in-laws on their farm. Walking in the fields I have not seen one dead animal. My father-in-law did say he saw a possum get caught up in the combine a week or two ago but that's really all I've heard them say about it.

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#18 Old 10-20-2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejey View Post

Of course it's so much easier to just be vegan, not use shampoo that's got honey in it...

Yeah, shampoo with maple syrup in it is way better.

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#19 Old 10-21-2008, 12:17 AM
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what a retarded argument....



but okay lets say its true and quite a few animals DO get killed in crop harvestig...







Thats all the more reason to go vegan!!!!!



Why? Because a meat eater consumes more crops then a vegan anyway; because of all the grain, soybeans etc fed to animals; which is far more then a person could ever directly eat!
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