Not to scare anyone, but... (vegan diets, like other diets, need to be well planned) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-21-2008, 09:24 AM
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A man's strict vegan diet may have caused him to go blind, doctors say.



The 33-year-old man had been on a strict diet for 13 years which involved cutting out meat, eggs, dairy products, fish and all other sources of animal protein.





When he was seen by doctors at the Pitie-Salpatriere Hospital in Paris part of his optic disc had deteriorated and he had "very poor vision".



Blood tests showed he was deficient in key minerals and vitamins. Supplements failed to improve his vision as his condition was too far advanced.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/687996.stm



I sometimes wonder whether people are really listening to the "well-planned" part of the advice given by the ADA in regards to a vegan diet. I think going blind is very, very rare but other problems could come up -- and not just with vegan diets that are not "well-planned". But of course, one vegan goes blind and it "proves" that vegan diets aren't healthy.



Just thought I'd throw this out there -- I found it while doing some important research for another thread.
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#2 Old 08-21-2008, 10:12 AM
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Aren't there several vegetables that help with eyesight? Diet is certainly a very important issue, but a lot of it comes down to luck.
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#3 Old 08-21-2008, 10:16 AM
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Maybe there was some other cause and they're blaming it on his vegan diet because it's convenient to do that. The article says what he DIDN'T eat, but doesn't say what he DID eat.



*playing Devil's advocate*

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#4 Old 08-21-2008, 10:23 AM
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"A spokeswoman said: "The problem with the man in question was that his diet was not balanced at all."
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#5 Old 08-21-2008, 10:27 AM
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The man had deficiencies in vitamins A, B, C, D and E and in the minerals zinc and selenium.



What was this guy eating? A quick, incomplete summary: It doesn't seem like he was eating many fruits and vegetables (Vitamin A and C deficient), bread/cereals/grains in general (vitamin B deficient) or beans/lentils/nuts (zinc), and since he's vegan - no meat, dairy or eggs. Selenium is in a wide range of foods. Vitamin E in things like avocado, nuts, vegetable oils. That doesn't leave a whole lot of (healthy) foods. This guy was either a junk food vegan or had an eating disorder.
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#6 Old 08-21-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/687996.stm



I sometimes wonder whether people are really listening to the "well-planned" part of the advice given by the ADA in regards to a vegan diet. I think going blind is very, very rare but other problems could come up -- and not just with vegan diets that are not "well-planned". But of course, on vegan goes blind and it "proves" that vegan diets aren't healthy.



Just thought I'd throw this out there -- I found it while doing some important research for another thread.



just reading that is affecting my eyes now

Thanks for this link.

Yes it need to be well plan and varied beans and rice each day cannot do the trick just like meat and rice.

I feel very bad for this man. I hope vegans that read this would take care of their diet even more and make sure that they are getting everything they need
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#7 Old 08-21-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

Aren't there several vegetables that help with eyesight? Diet is certainly a very important issue, but a lot of it comes down to luck.



of course carrots...maybe he was a really picky eater
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#8 Old 08-21-2008, 11:39 AM
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In the article the spokeswoman said this

"The essence of the situation is that if you are not having a balanced diet you are going to have problems. You need to take in as many different food sources as possible."

This is a very important point that she makes as people think that beans and rice could supplement someone but it cannot in the same way as meat and rice CANNOT. If possible the vegan diet should be varied and if something happened and my diet could not be varied I would have to change it.
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#9 Old 08-21-2008, 11:40 AM
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the average omni doesnt plan there meals specifically for nutrient content (yet they think that if they have meat on there plate, they dont need to think about what nutrients/vitamins they need to eat... meat is such a wonder food!)



I wonder how many omni's loose there sight every year, but arent reported on....
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#10 Old 08-21-2008, 12:06 PM
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Either all we eat is carrots OR we aren't taking care of our eyes. The rest of the world can't have it both ways! Pick a stereotype and stick with it!
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#11 Old 08-21-2008, 12:18 PM
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How do we know he didn't have some genetic condition or other unknown medical condtion that caused this, for instance surrounding his optic disk? Isn't diabetes also linked to blindness? What about other undisclosed environmental causes?



I would be very, very dubious about linkng this man's blindness to his vegan diet, planned or unplanned.
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#12 Old 08-21-2008, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon_Veggie View Post

How do we know he didn't have some genetic condition or other unknown medical condtion that caused this, for instance surrounding his optic disk? Isn't diabetes also linked to blindness? What about other undisclosed environmental causes?



I would be very, very dubious about linkng this man's blindness to his vegan diet, planned or unplanned.



That's what *I* said. Or tried to say.

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#13 Old 08-21-2008, 12:34 PM
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That's what *I* said. Or tried to say.



maybe but maybe his unplanned diet helped to make the underlying problems he could have had more serious, and that could have caused the blindness.

I will not dispute what the doctors have said for now until I do more research on my own..but I won't sit here and say hell no that could have never happened because it is so rare.



Vegan or not all diets must be planned well or you could develop a deficiency. Simple.



I can see it happening with the development of night blindness into more serious issues with his eyes.

I hope everyone is more aware now.

Thanks Mr Sun for an informative post.
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#14 Old 08-21-2008, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon_Veggie View Post


I would be very, very dubious about linkng this man's blindness to his vegan diet, planned or unplanned.



Even if the blindness wasn't caused by the diet (it does say "may" in the article) he was low in some key nutrients.



I posted this story so that vegans will eat a healthy diet -- I sometimes wonder if the message is getting across, especially to teenagers. I'm not sure if that's a fair statement to make but it seems like there are more than a few teenagers who haven't learned to cook and are becoming vegan and it seems to me that teenage years are a very busy time. I just wouldn't want them to become sick. I'm not sure if I would've put enough thought into diet if I had become vegan as a teenager. On the other hand, I don't think anyone should be scared out of becoming vegan -- I really don't think it's that hard to eat enough variety to get all the necessary nutrients (except b12).





I think all people need to eat well-planned diets but as Vio1 points out: if an omni loses his/her eyesight and it can be linked to diet it probably wouldn't even get reported. Every negative vegan story sticks in people's minds so that they can use that as an excuse. I heard this one "nutritionist" on the radio go on about how people just can't live on a vegan diet. He convinced his daughter not to go that route.
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#15 Old 08-21-2008, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon_Veggie View Post

How do we know he didn't have some genetic condition or other unknown medical condtion that caused this, for instance surrounding his optic disk? Isn't diabetes also linked to blindness? What about other undisclosed environmental causes?



I would be very, very dubious about linkng this man's blindness to his vegan diet, planned or unplanned.



We know because his physicians tested for other causes. Adult onset diabetes is caused by diet anyway, and since he is alive he isn't suffering from undiagnosed and treated insulin dependent diabetes.



You are really grasping at straws here. An unwillingness to accept that diet caused the blindless when his specific dietary deficiencies are known to cause blindness and other known causes were tested for is pretty extreme desperations.
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#16 Old 08-21-2008, 01:55 PM
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People need to be reasonable and not extreme.



Supplements are necessary for many people, but those who cut out foods rich in or enriched with vital nutrients MUST supplement.



Here's an example: Vitamin D deficiency is so common, not just in vegans either.



I live in sunny Southern California and my MD runs routine tests on everyone...85% of EVERYONE is deficient. IN CALIFORNIA!!!

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#17 Old 08-21-2008, 02:41 PM
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Ahimsaaaaaaaa

Vitamin D deficiencies in California!?

Off topic, but how exactly?

Isn't it like only 10 minutes a day or something you need?

Aaaaaah
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#18 Old 08-21-2008, 02:49 PM
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They talk about what the guy wasn't eating but what was he eating? Was he eating anything? The things the guy was deficient in are plentiful in fruits and vegetables. I mean, a vitamin C deficiency? Really? There's no vitamin C in meat, eggs or milk. How hard is it to eat a freaking orange?
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#19 Old 08-21-2008, 04:23 PM
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The issue of a balanced diet in this man's case is important, I think. I mean, hey, carrots alone are just packed with vitamin A, are you telling me he omitted these plus other leafy greens from his diet for that long??



I wish they would have given us a glimpse on his everyday diet... but that might have been too personal or the report too recent.
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#20 Old 08-22-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Martini View Post

We know because his physicians tested for other causes. Adult onset diabetes is caused by diet anyway...



Type 2 diabetes is not caused by diet. Diet and lifestyle choices are a factor in developing type 2, but genetics and environment play a significant role. Plenty of slim and otherwise healthy people develop the disease as well.



Sorry to derail the thread; my husband has type 2 and you cannot believe the number of people who ask me "well, what did he do to get it?"
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#21 Old 08-22-2008, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

I heard this one "nutritionist" on the radio go on about how people just can't live on a vegan diet. He convinced his daughter not to go that route.



What were the reasons they gave?
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#22 Old 08-22-2008, 10:26 AM
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What were the reasons they gave?



It was a while ago so I don't remember all of it but I think he said that b12 is not found "naturally" on a vegan diet and that proves we aren't meant to be vegan. But his main point was about how humans cannot break down the cellulose wall or something on vegetation so we cannot properly obtain the nutrients contained within. He went on to explain why cows have 4 somachs. And he's a nutrtionist advising other people. Wow. Has he never heard of the many vegan and high-vegan animals that have only ONE stomach?
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#23 Old 08-22-2008, 10:27 AM
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"The man had deficiencies in vitamins A, B, C, D and E and in the minerals zinc and selenium."



I'm going to echo, "What WAS he eating?"

Either this guy had serious genetic issues that caused malabsorption of ... everything, or he was eating nothing but tofutti cream cheese on wonder bread. How the hell do you get a vitamin C deficiency as a vegan?! If I plug my breakfast alone into fitday, it tells me I've already gotten like 300% DV.
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#24 Old 08-22-2008, 10:33 AM
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or he was eating nothing but tofutti cream cheese on wonder bread.




"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#25 Old 08-22-2008, 10:38 AM
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I read a big thick nutrition text book and it said that vitamin C deficiencies are so rare, that the only time he's seen it in anyone who wasn't a dedicated alcoholic (getting all their calories from booze), was a guy who survived on nothing but white rice and canned sardines.
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#26 Old 08-22-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Medesha View Post

Type 2 diabetes is not caused by diet. Diet and lifestyle choices are a factor in developing type 2, but genetics and environment play a significant role. Plenty of slim and otherwise healthy people develop the disease as well.



Sorry to derail the thread; my husband has type 2 and you cannot believe the number of people who ask me "well, what did he do to get it?"



Heredity & environment can increase your risk, but diet is THE primary cause of type 2 diabetes.



Obviously, you can still have a very crappy diet and be thin; I never said anything to the contrary. Bein thin doesn't mean you're healthy or not at risk for diabetes.
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#27 Old 08-22-2008, 10:41 AM
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Bein thin doesn't mean you're healthy or not at risk for diabetes.



And in turn, being over fat doesn't automatically mean one is unhealthy and at an increased risk for diseases.

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#28 Old 08-22-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Martini View Post

Heredity & environment can increase your risk, but diet is THE primary cause of type 2 diabetes.



Obviously, you can still have a very crappy diet and be thin; I never said anything to the contrary. Bein thin doesn't mean you're healthy or not at risk for diabetes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by webmd.com View Post


Type 2 diabetes: Type 2 diabetes has strong genetic links, meaning that type 2 diabetes tends to run in families. Several genes have been identified and more are under study which may relate to the causes of type 2 diabetes. Risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes include the following:



High blood pressure



High blood triglyceride (fat) levels



Gestational diabetes or giving birth to a baby weighing more than 9 pounds



High-fat diet



High alcohol intake



Sedentary lifestyle



Obesity or being overweight



Ethnicity, particularly when a close relative had type 2 diabetes or gestational diabetes: certain groups, such as African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Japanese Americans, have a greater risk of developing type 2 diabetes than non-Hispanic whites.



Aging: Increasing age is a significant risk factor for type 2 diabetes. Risk begins to rise significantly at about age 45 years, and rises considerably after age 65 years.



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Originally Posted by healthcare.utah.edu View Post

What causes type 2 diabetes?

The exact cause of type 2 diabetes is unknown. However, there does appear to be a genetic factor which causes it to run in families. And, although a person can inherit a tendency to develop type 2 diabetes, it usually takes another factor, such as obesity, to bring on the disease.



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Originally Posted by American Diabetes Association View Post

Myth #1 You can catch diabetes from someone else.

No. Although we dont know exactly why some people develop diabetes, we know diabetes is not contagious. It cant be caught like a cold or flu. There seems to be some genetic link in diabetes, particularly type 2 diabetes. Lifestyle factors also play a part.



Myth #3 Eating too much sugar causes diabetes.

No. Diabetes is caused by a combination of genetic and lifestyle factors. However, being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes. If you have a history of diabetes in your family, eating a healthy meal plan and regular exercise are recommended to manage your weight.



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Originally Posted by genetichealth.com View Post

Who Gets Type 2 Diabetes?

Type 2 diabetes tends to occur in people who are obese and do not exercise regularly. Type 2 diabetes is also much more common in some racial groups. These include people of African, Native American, Hispanic, and Pacific Island descent. In fact, although the overall prevalence of Type 2 diabetes in the United States is six percent, one Native American tribe in Arizona (the Pima Indians) has a prevalence of nearly 50 percent...



One strong risk factor for developing Type 2 diabetes is a family history of Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes, or a personal history of gestational diabetes (diabetes during pregnancy). Although the risk for the general population is about five percent, people who have a parent or sibling with the disease have an increased risk of about 10 to 15 percent. If that sibling is an identical twin, then the risk is almost 100 percent. However, this risk may not be entirely genetic. Because Type 2 diabetes is also triggered by a lifestyle that lead to obesity, twins may share a strong lifestyle similarity that puts them at similar risk.





Obesity (not a poor diet) is a risk factor of developing diabetes. Genetics, environment, and a sedentary lifestyle are equally strong factors. My husband and I have struggled to educate ourselves for the last three years on the causes and factors of type 2, and we hear over and over again: weight and exercise can control the symptoms and mitigate development, but no one knows what exactly causes type 2 diabetes.
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#29 Old 08-22-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Vio1 View Post

the average omni doesnt plan there meals specifically for nutrient content (yet they think that if they have meat on there plate, they dont need to think about what nutrients/vitamins they need to eat... meat is such a wonder food!)



I wonder how many omni's loose there sight every year, but arent reported on....



As well, some people who have posted in this thread seem to be hinting that meat and dairy are wonder foods when it comes to nutrients.
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#30 Old 08-22-2008, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Vio1 View Post

the average omni doesnt plan there meals specifically for nutrient content (yet they think that if they have meat on there plate, they dont need to think about what nutrients/vitamins they need to eat... meat is such a wonder food!)



I wonder how many omni's loose there sight every year, but arent reported on....





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