Originally Posted by Glitterpixie
Elbow dysplacia is genetic and does not occur because of diet.
And size has little to do with how well a dog plays (unless you mean she is overweight)
She is kept at a lower weight to help ease the strain on her elbows. I don't know if you have any large breed dogs, but we are talking about a newfoundland here. They move differently than other breeds. Older large breed dogs are usually less spunky and fast and hop/pounce around less or for shorter periods of time than older dogs of other breeds. They grow very fast in puppyhood, which puts strains on their bones and joints that can catch up with them later in life. They also just, generally, have less in their energy reserve than a little yapping terrier, bouncing off the walls.
Is there any evidence that the cancer was diet related? Cancer can come about due to both genetic and enviromental factors. Feeding a good diet reduces the risk significantly but does not eliminate it. If you do not have any evidence that the cancer was related to meat eating then it's just scaremongering.
I am not sure if you are being serious and just misread me, or if you are being intentionally controversial and argumentative.
You've conveniently left out this bit:
I do not give these examples to "prove" that a carnivorous/omnivorous diet is inferior, but to say, "where the hell is the examples of these malnourished, cancer riddled vegan dogs or even ones that are, somehow, not thriving quite as much as their omnivorous friends?" I've never read about or seen any. I am sure there are vegan dogs with cancer out there, but I do not believe it is directly caused by a lack of meat.
I was clearly just pointing out that meat-eating canines get cancer, also
. I never said there was a cause and effect that relates in any way to meat (or lack there of).
Because they are carnivores, simple as that. Cows are herbivores, what do you think they thrive on?
Let's try this again: What is it about their behavior, appearance, health, examinations, longevity, etc.
that makes some of you believe so vehemently that your dogs are healthier or "thrive" more on their diets? What observable proof is there? I was not looking for "because it should be so" again.
The fact your vets sell commercial food (no doubt manufactured by purina and the like) to promote health suggests they're blinkered to this. Your dogs may be above 'normal' healthwise but 'normal' healthwise in dogs these days is far, far bellow what it should be.
What vet sells the kind of crap dog food manufactured by purina? (O_o)
Would you like to tell me what levels of health my dogs should measure up to? I say my dogs are very healthy. You want to find some way to dispute that by talking about lower standards of health, and you believe that you are somehow more qualified than my vets (or your own),.. so have at it.
Tell us, what standard our dogs should be living up to that we and our vets are too busy comparing to inferior health to see?
My offer is genuine. I'd really like to know.
I do choose what they eat but I'm no pack leader. To be a pack leader I need to be a dog, since I am not a dog I prefer to describe myself as a human partner or companion. Sorry it's totally unrelated to the topic but I hate the term 'pack leader' when applied to a human.
Really?... you do like to argue, don't you. (^_^)
For one that references evolutionary nature so much, it is weird to me that you would be so bothered by me using this term.
I let my dogs be dogs, and we are a familial unit. Of course, they are absolutely my companions, but I provide their food, and shelter, and they wait for me to go through doors first (without ever having been asked to do so, because I could not care less) and other things that tell me that they see me as their pack leader, as well as a companion. That is the way they
see it, and I like to take into account the canine perspective rather than trying to humanize them. This does not mean I see myself as one of them. I know I am human.
There is a hierarchy in every
pack. (I'm sure you know that.) It is evolutionary psychology. I am glad they have always seen me as leader, because otherwise they would be fighting, with each other, for dominance. We have a very peaceful home.
There has been numerous examples of cross-species rearing (not just with humans involved), and canines perceive the one that takes care of them as their pack leader.
You = provider = pack leader.
That is why the term was used in the context of proving their food.
I agree this is an issue but it is one that is easy to resolve by either not having a dog, hunting with your dog or feeding your dog the waste products of the human meat industry.
Ok, I am laughing at the idea of taking my dogs hunting. My dogs won't even eat a live insect. (^_^)
They will toy with them and hop around them. They will chase squirrels and birds in my yard, tails wagging,... they treat it as a game and always let them get away.
They killed a opossum that ran in my house one night, but it was strictly territorial. They could not have been less interested in eating it.
In fact, I came to discover this, because my huge 125 lb dog darted from my living room, down the hallway, and backed up against my bedroom door.
She sat there crying, terrified by what had just transpired. She is a big baby.
Of course, my dogs would eat whatever they could (including other animals, if they were starved. But if I took them on as hunting trip now (where? to hunt the neighborhood cats
), they would most likely chase some things for fun then start grazing on plant life, like they do now.
Some of my dogs are among the top 100 fittest and most skilled dogs in my country, that is proven. Out of 6 dogs I have 3 champions, 2 of which hold them in multiple activities, and one supreme champion. The activities they compete in are working trials, agility, obedience and schutzhund. That may not mean much to you and I don't know your moral stance on working dogs but it shows that they can physically and mentally outdo many other working dogs and their strenth in these areas goes far beyond most pet dogs. Since moving to a raw diet none have visited the vet for anything other than a checkup apart from one with an on going genetic condition. I don't think they could have achived any of this without a great diet and I don't think any of them will be going veggie any time soon.
Ah... I see.
Well, you are right. That really means absolutely nothing to me.
If I really wanted to train my dogs to perform, I am sure they would do pretty well. But no, I do not believe in one having dogs to work or perform for them.
Basing your assertion that your dogs thrive above all others (that do not share your chosen diet) on metals or trophies they have won from these competitions does not resonate. I don't think it is a very sound argument. Not because of my personal feelings on the matter, but because you are just taking two things and connecting them to support your opinion. There is nothing to say one has anything, at all, to do with the other.