dietician advise about veganism - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-07-2008, 02:48 PM
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Okay well, I've been vegetarian for about hmmm... 11 years and I have an aunt who is a dietitian... She's very supportive of my vegetarianism and says it's a very healthy diet (I eat a VERY varied diet). But I was interested in going vegan...



I talked to my registered dietician aunt and she said that there are three essential protiens that can ONLY be found in animal products. She said it is impossible to get these from plants. No amount of combining can provide you with these nutrients. She said going without these can result in the breakdown of cells.



What do you guys think? Have you heard this? Have you talked to other dietitians who have okay'ed this diet?



(P.S. I misspelled dietitian in the title, sorry!)
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#2 Old 07-07-2008, 02:54 PM
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I'm sure your aunt is just concerned about you and looking to give you the best advice possible. However....



As a dietician, she should know that "food combining" to make complete proteins was debunked years ago. And I've never, in all my years of reserach and Being vegetarian, heard of anything you can't get on a vegan diet (B12 doesn't come from animals; it's a bacteria).



That said, what exactly were these mysterious three essential proteins?



Again, I'm sure she means well but it's best to stay informed and up to date. Maybe it would be fun to look at some vegan research with your aunt sometime.
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#3 Old 07-07-2008, 02:56 PM
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I'm very interested in knowing if she's talking about blood, pus and phlegm. Those seem to exist in milk everywhere.
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#4 Old 07-07-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seejanepaint View Post

I talked to my registered dietician aunt and she said that there are three essential protiens that can ONLY be found in animal products. She said it is impossible to get these from plants.

Yeah, what are their names? Oh, and I think she meant amino acids, not protein. The body combines amino acids (which you don't have to get all in the same meal) to build protein.



According to conventional wisdom, there are about 9 essential amino acids, all of which are available in a vegan diet.

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#5 Old 07-10-2008, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachbnny View Post

That said, what exactly were these mysterious three essential proteins?



Again, I'm sure she means well but it's best to stay informed and up to date. Maybe it would be fun to look at some vegan research with your aunt sometime.



I am very curious to know what those 3 essential proteins are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Soy 6-Pack View Post

I'm very interested in knowing if she's talking about blood, pus and phlegm. Those seem to exist in milk everywhere.



Right >HERE< with you on that one! LOL



Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

Yeah, what are their names? According to conventional wisdom, there are about 9 essential amino acids, all of which are available in a vegan diet.



Hmmmm? I am still waiting to hear more about this newly found information. I still have not seen the response yet. Hopefully the OP is gathering information to report back to us. Because the information that I have does not support the statement being made by the dietitian.
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#6 Old 07-10-2008, 02:59 AM
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Yes, I've had virtually the same comment from a number of "professionals" recently. Two doctors, a dietician and a nutritionist and 2 naturopaths. It's astounding how uneducated they are! A naturopath recently told my sister that she wouldn't treat her because she was a vegan and couldn't possibly be getting enough protein in her diet. It's ridiculous.



Seriously, I genuinely wonder about the quality of their education on this subject... what information is their education based on? Is that information based on research funded by the meat and/or dairy industries?



Both doctors told me that we need the haem iron only found in animal products and also that young boys need meat for proper growth during adolescence. One of those doctors is my SIL whose daughter lives on chicken nuggets, toast and junk - like I'm going to listen to her nutritional advice!!



It rolls off my back because I'm satisfied with my own level of education on the subject, but all the people out there who are unsure and uneducated are so easily brow beaten into thinking that they have to eat meat again!



I know of someone who was a new vegetarian but was told by a naturopath to follow the diet as recommended by the book 'Nourishing Traditions' so she gave up her beliefs in order to eat meat, butter and cheese galore because she was told it was healthy! She will most likely go on to follow the advice of 'Nourishing Traditions' to feed her unborn baby ground mince as a first food!
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#7 Old 07-10-2008, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seejanepaint View Post


I talked to my registered dietician aunt and she said that there are three essential protiens that can ONLY be found in animal products. She said it is impossible to get these from plants. No amount of combining can provide you with these nutrients. She said going without these can result in the breakdown of cells.



What do you guys think? Have you heard this? Have you talked to other dietitians who have okay'ed this diet?



(P.S. I misspelled dietitian in the title, sorry!)



What about if you do the research at this time. Try to find some good book about veganism where they write how to eat right so that you get everything what you need. After you have read that give it to your aunt. I believe that as a dietician she probably would like to read good material from veganism and learn how it can be healthy choice. I think that she can be open to that because she already support your vegetarian lifestyle.



People are against things what they don't know and where they think that they have right information. It just is that you need to give them change to learn new stuff from you. With someone it is that you give them a book to read and with others it is that you live your life and show them how your choices are good for you and after that they maybe start to revalue their own choices.
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#8 Old 07-10-2008, 06:44 AM
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Have her list the three "proteins" for you and then get back to us.

http://megatarian.blogspot.com
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#9 Old 07-10-2008, 06:53 AM
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Actually I believe she said amino acids and I misquoted her. (I apologize!) I'm not sure which ones, I will have to email her (she lives on the other side of the country.)



And she does fully support a vegetarian diet- I am not saying she is anti veg... she just said that three of the amino acids can only be found in animal products (Dairy) ... And I'm having a hard time finding a website with those amino acids listed. If anyone has any links to info let me know.



And I really do trust her advise, she has a masters degree in nutrition and is working on her doctorate. Her children eat very little meat and are VERY healthy. But her specialty is working with people with Diabetes. They don't have many vegans in her area of Alabama .she said so she has had no direct experience with Vegans.
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#10 Old 07-10-2008, 06:58 AM
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According to Wikipedia:

Quote:
In addition, the amino acids arginine, cysteine, glycine, glutamine, histidine, proline, serine and tyrosine are considered conditionally essential, meaning they are not normally required in the diet, but must be supplied exogenously to specific populations that do not synthesize it in adequate amounts.[4][5] An example would be with the disease phenylketonuria (PKU). Individuals living with PKU must keep their intake of phenylalanine extremely low to prevent mental retardation and other metabolic complications. However, phenylalanine is the precursor for tyrosine synthesis. Without phenylalanine, tyrosine cannot be made and so tyrosine becomes essential in the diet of PKU patients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acids

Maybe she's referring to these amino acids? I've got no idea whether all of these are available from plant sources.


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#11 Old 07-10-2008, 07:25 AM
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http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/c...d-pasta/5707/2



Scroll down to Protein and Amino Acids and click more details.
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#12 Old 07-10-2008, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RoboMonkey View Post

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/c...d-pasta/5707/2



Scroll down to Protein and Amino Acids and click more details.

Okay, so they're available. The follow-up question would be whether they are available in sufficient quantities.

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#13 Old 07-10-2008, 07:54 AM
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I was about to research this anyway, so here you go. As far as I can tell, the following are the essential amino acids for adults, meaning these must be ingested. Kids have additional requirements that may or may not be available in a vegan diet--I didn't look those up. (Disclaimer: The following information came from Wikipedia and healthvitaminsguide.com in addition to a scientific journal. Since much of this did not come from a valid scientific source, you should verify to make sure its really true.)



Valine: Valine is an essential amino acid, hence it must be ingested, usually as a component of proteins. Nutritional sources of valine include cottage cheese, fish, poultry, peanuts, sesame seeds, and lentils.



Leucine: As an essential amino acid, leucine is not synthesized in animals, hence it must be ingested, usually as a component of proteins. It is synthesized in plants and microorganisms via several steps starting from pyruvic acid. Leucine food sources in descending order: soybeans, lentils, cowpea, catjang, beef, peanuts, pork, fish, crustaceans, chicken, Nuts, almonds, Egg yolk, Chickpeas, sesame, flax seed, walnuts, Egg whole, egg white, Sausage, Milk sheep, Hummus, Milk goat, Milk whole, Soy milk, asparagus, Snap beans green, Milk human



Isoleucine: It is an essential amino acid, which means that humans cannot synthesize it, so it must be part of our diet. It is present in almonds, cashews, chicken, eggs, fish, lentils, liver, meat etc. Isoleucine is found especially in high amounts in meats, fish, cheese, most seeds and nuts, eggs, chickens and lentils.



Threonine: It is an essential amino acid and thus indispensable in the diet of man. Found in cottage cheese, fish and other seafood, meats, poultry, peanuts, sesame seeds, lentils.



Methionine: Methionine is a nutritionally essential amino acid. It may be substituted with its corresponding keto acids, which on amination gives rise to methionine. The body cannot synthesize the corresponding keto acids. Methionine is found in good quantities in meat, fish, beans, eggs, garlic, lentils, onions, yogurt and seeds. Other sources of methionine are cheese, eggs, chicken, and beef.



Phenylalanine: Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid. It is not synthesized in the body but in the microorganisms it is synthesized. L-phenylalanine is found in most foods that contain protein such as beef, poultry, pork, fish, milk, yogurt, eggs, cheese, soy products (including soy protein isolate, soybean flour, and tofu), and certain nuts and seeds. Banana is also a rich source of phenylalanine. The artificial sweetener aspartame is also high in phenylalanine.



Lysine: It is not synthesized in the animal. It is essential for growth. G ood sources of lysine are foods rich in protein including meat (specifically red meat, pork, and poultry), cheese (particularly parmesan), certain fish (such as cod and sardines), nuts, eggs, soybeans (particularly tofu, isolated soy protein, and defatted soybean flour), spirulina, and fenugreek seed. For vegetarians, legumes (beans, peas and lentils) are the best sources of lysine.



Tryptophan: It is essential amino acid and should not be omitted from the diet. Tryptophan, found as a component of dietary protein, is particularly plentiful in chocolate, oats, bananas, dried dates, milk, cottage, cheese, meat, fish, turkey and peanuts.

Beanitarian.
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#14 Old 07-10-2008, 07:58 AM
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Wow a dietician going against the published findings of American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada? Perhaps she needs to have her qualifications checked.



It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred, and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Although a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variability of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes.



http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg...3_ENU_HTML.htm









Maybe your aunt can answer why she is right but her peers are all wrong?
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#15 Old 07-10-2008, 08:19 AM
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I'm sure your aunt means well but even medical professionals disagree on these points. I think it depends on your personal bias, really.



I've been lucky enough to find doctors who have been positive about veganism. I remember while I was pregnant a friend of mine was in a college class about nutrition, her professor was a dietician and my friend made a point to call me and tell me how excited she was because her and her professor had a great talk about nutrition in which he was extremely supportive about my being vegan and pregnant.



I think the amount of healthy and happy vegans is proof enough that you can get everything you need from a vegan diet.



Besides, I have a friend whose child is allergic to dairy and eggs... so if we needed dairy and eggs to survive, how could this kid be so healthy?



You might want to thank your aunt for the advice but tell her that it's worth a try. Maybe you can be her guinea pig in a sense. lol.
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#16 Old 07-13-2008, 05:57 PM
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I went vegan on Dec-1-07. Can you ask your Aunt how long I have to live?
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#17 Old 07-13-2008, 06:09 PM
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I went vegan on Dec-1-07. Can you ask your Aunt how long I have to live?



Well that's sorta rude. You don't see life-time vegan and vegetarians chiming in here saying "I've been vegan for XXXX years and am still alive."



I'm thinking the OP knows it's possible to be vegan and live a long healthy life, it's convincing her aunt about the essential amino acids that's the issue.
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