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#1 Old 03-29-2008, 10:37 AM
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I just stumbled on this webpage. The author is obviously very ignorant but perhaps the more people that counter the ludicrous claims made on the site, the more hope we have of all the false information being taken down.



(link removed)



This is the bit that really irritated me:

Quote:
Vegans are ultra-strict vegetarians, who risk their health and especially their long-term health, in their commitment to avoid any animal products. This includes an avoidance of all dairy products, clothes derived from animal skins (leather) and fur. There is little help for vegans; their nutritional intake cannot be made normal, and they will suffer mental and physical degradation over time.



And this is the definition of a carnivore given:



Quote:
Carnivores are species that (normally) eat meat, such as cats, dogs, humans, wolves, birds of prey, and the majority of other higher animals, and abstaining from doing so causes ill health.



Yes, if a true carnivore abstained from eating meat it would cause ill-health. Since humans aren't though, we can rest happy.



I'm not surprised that the references include wikipedia and livejournal. If wiki says it, it must be true!
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#2 Old 03-29-2008, 10:53 AM
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Honestly, these "anti" veg/vegan people and their misguided assumptions don't really bother me. I know the truth.
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#3 Old 03-29-2008, 11:04 AM
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Wow, that is... amazing! I can't believe I wasn't reading satire when I went through that.



Vitamin A and D?! Come on, at least talk about B12, the only vitamin veg*ns really run into an issue with. I love how fast he is to say that "oh sure, you can get them from plants... but uh, the body can't use them well!"



Quote:
If you are morally concerned about the welfare of animals, as you should be, it is better to buy meat farmed ethically than it is to shun meat altogether, because that makes the entire market swing towards ethical methods and has a bigger impact than resorting to (self-harming) vegetarian protest.



The Economist magazine's special report (2006) explained that buying meat from those conforming to ethical standards is more effective at changing the industry than simply abstaining from meat altogether - "consumption, rather than non-consumption" is "far more likely to produce results"



And here is where it's obvious he just doesn't get the point. I haven't heard many veg*ns say that animal welfare is their reason for doing it. He never once mentions animal rights.



The fact of the matter is, veg*nism will work. You can be short sighted and ignorant all you want... But eventually the inhumanity and impracticality of the animals as products industry will become common knowledge, and it'll slowly crumble. It's a waste of life, a waste of land and is wasting away our planet; "going green" is becoming some huge fad now. Not eating beef is one of the best ways you can do that, and people will catch on.
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#4 Old 03-29-2008, 11:35 AM
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That's pretty ridiculous, but I don't think anyone will be conviced by a website stating "There is little help for vegans, their nutritional intake cannot be made normal"
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#5 Old 03-29-2008, 01:29 PM
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It seems to me that people who are stuffing themselves with half-rotted cadavers would have much higher than "normal" needs for vitamins and minerals, especially the antioxidant types, than people who eat plants, so the RDAs don't really reflect what is optimal anyway.



I recently read the opinion of a naturopath, published a little over a hundred years ago, that the myth of human beings being carnivores was originated in part by the need for Creationists to counter the Darwinian view that humans are more closely related to the fruit and leaf eating primates. I thought that was an interesting observation.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#6 Old 03-29-2008, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorzelGummidge View Post

I just stumbled on this webpage. The author is obviously very ignorant but perhaps the more people that counter the ludicrous claims made on the site, the more hope we have of all the false information being taken down.







This is the bit that really irritated me:





And this is the definition of a carnivore given:







Yes, if a true carnivore abstained from eating meat it would cause ill-health. Since humans aren't though, we can rest happy.



I'm not surprised that the references include wikipedia and livejournal. If wiki says it, it must be true!



lol, who the hell would use live journal as a reference! ya, cause some 14 year old in the midst of teenage angst is a legitimate source. no offense to the teenagers on this board..



besides, my mind started to degrade long before i stopped eating meat, so nyah!
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#7 Old 03-29-2008, 07:22 PM
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Wow. Reminds me of this Earthday pic.



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#8 Old 03-29-2008, 07:27 PM
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that website is full of ****
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#9 Old 03-30-2008, 07:32 AM
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Where the hell did you find that?

I would login there ask that "knowledgeable" crap eater why people being vegan beats diabetes, heart attacs, high blood pressure and much more.



Also, you can ask also why a Raw-Vegan has beaten Epilepsy and other Cancer...



I've left a post there:



I'm Raw-Vegan (written in the topic... as user I'm anonymous)



Quote:
Originally Posted by by me (Raw-Vegan) on that **** View Post


So, it's unhealthy to not wear fur, huh?

I live in Chicago where the wind chill in winter drops down to 35 degrees BELOW zero... I did not catch a single cold.



I'm not gonna share culture with you because you just said a lot of crap and you have no knowledge at all.



Just ask to the following questions:



1- Why vegans decrease their blood pressure and heart attack risk?



2- Why a vegan reduces dramatically risk of cancer, heart attack, eye vision problems and much more?



3- Why a vegan has more energy and can handle more? Why is he/she never feeling like, "I'm tired but I do not know why"?



If you get more information, you will find that veggies have more vitamins and nutrients that meat... and the only thing that can be missed in a vegan diet is the Bs vitamins... which know, all of the milks (rice, soy, almond) are enriched with that vitamins...



Well... if your brain is not clogged with trans, hydrogenated oil, pus and hormones answer this questions...





1st A boy had several issues with epilepsy... he went raw-vegan and he defeated the disease...



2nd and hardest question. Cancer is the 1st killer... impossible to cure... Well... Tell me why some people has gone Raw 100% eating vegan has defeated the un-defeat-able ...



There are reports to prove it.



Come on meatbrain... answer!

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#10 Old 03-30-2008, 12:54 PM
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LOL at



Quote:
Vegans ... risk their health and especially their long-term health, in their commitment to avoid any animal products... There is little help for vegans ... and they will suffer mental and physical degradation over time.

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#11 Old 03-30-2008, 03:25 PM
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I hope the bone head answer to my thread

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#12 Old 03-30-2008, 03:38 PM
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I found it by googling "arguments for and against vegetarianism" or something like that. It was the first site that came up. I'm new to veg*nism so I don't really have the knowledge to put him straight, although what he says is obviously bull. I thought some people here might want to do it.
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#13 Old 03-30-2008, 05:42 PM
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Step 1) Use their sources against them.



Step 2) Get angry and realize that this person isn't worth your time, and tell them to play in traffic.



I think the answer to the question about how humanity has existed so long is simple. People are easily swayed, easily manipulated. The smart people, or the cunning people, or even just the selfish people have learned throughout the ages that it's not that hard to bend others to your will.



It's unfortunate, and pathetic, that there are so many out there that don't operate on much more of a level than "food good, t.v. good, must work ... get good stuff" most of the time. I am sorry if this comes off as pretentious, but it doesn't take much longer than 5 minutes in any socialized setting to find yourself aghast at the complacency of your fellow (wo)man.



Once you realize the power you have, the control over your own life that you have, and rightfully should. . . you can achieve almost anything! That's one reason I like these forums. It takes a lot of intellectual observation and self-reflection to understand the limitless benefits and advantages to a cruelty-free lifestyle. To most or all of us, it's just common sense now!
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#14 Old 03-31-2008, 11:37 AM
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This really reminds me of a site that was mentioned on VB a few months ago. Everyone got all up in arms, only to realize later that it was a parody, not serious. I'm not sure if it was this same site or another, but it's very similar.



Either way, I don't see the point in arguing. I have better things to do with my time.



--Fromper

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#15 Old 04-01-2008, 09:10 AM
 
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The links to the site have been removed, as VeggieBoards discourages it's members from posting on other boards/sites en masse.



I'm not saying that veg*ns shouldn't respond to these types of pages and websites, so please don't misunderstand. However we (mod team and Michael) feel that:



* We appreciate the help other boardmasters have given when VB has had an influx of trolls from other sites, and generally like to extend the same courtesy.



* We don't want "those vegetarian site raiders" to be the image people conjure up when thinking about VeggieBoards.





ETA: I'm leaving the thread open, so people can discuss the pro/anti vegan arguments themselves. Please don't use this thread for a debate about the merits of pro-vegan propaganda. If you'd like to start a thread about VB's philosophy, feel free to do so in the Community Assistance forum. For the record, however, this policy seems unlikely to change in the near future.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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