I'm lurking first time today and have a q?[Why are plants pollenated by bees okay] - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-18-2007, 10:17 PM
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I guess I do not understand the Vegan philosophy, because I am not sure how bees are involved. If you cannot have honey, how can you have any fruit? It takes bees to pollinate a flower to get fruit. I am not asking this to be a jerk. I am truly interested. I had been a vegetarian in the past, and at the urging of my children we are going to be vegetarian. I found this board and in looking around found this thread. How much different is vegetarian from vegan?
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#2 Old 05-18-2007, 11:02 PM
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The fruit really is not considered a product of the bee in this case and the bee has already gathered what it's going to use for its own use. Veganism is not so much a random set of rules, but rather a philosophy of not taking from animals what they've designated for their own use. The fruit of the plant is not being used by the bee, but anything in the bee's hive: bee pollen, beeswax, honey is for the bee's use and not for ours.
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#3 Old 05-18-2007, 11:05 PM
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Andys_Rebecca: I spilt you off the candle thread, due to the fact that this question is an entire thread in and of itself.
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#4 Old 05-18-2007, 11:08 PM
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Yep. Bees don't make pollen. It sticks to them and they transfer it to the plant. Bees make honey.

Pollen is a plant-made product. Honey is made by bees, which are animals.

Vegans don't consume/use things made by animals.
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#5 Old 05-18-2007, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by andys_rebecca View Post

How much different is vegetarian from vegan?

The most significant dietary difference between vegetarians (usually lacto-ovo) and vegans is generally the consumption of dairy and eggs. Many people don't realize how greaty animals are hurt in producing these products commercially. I just wrote this as a response to someone else:


Also, here's something I found about bees:

Bees are often killed in the production of honey, in the worst case the

whole hive may be destroyed if the keeper doesn't wish to protect them over

the winter. Not all beekeepers do this, but the general practice is one that

embodies the attitude that living things are mere material and have no

intrinsic value of their own other than what commercial value we can wrench

from them. Artificial insemination involving death of the male is now also

the norm for generation of new queen bees. The favored method of obtaining

bee sperm is by pulling off the insect's head (decapitation sends an

electrical impulse to the nervous system which causes sexual arousal). The

lower half of the headless bee is then squeezed to make it ejaculate. The

resulting liquid is collected in a hypodermic syringe.

I understand that the queen is generally killed every other other year in favor of a new one, and bees are often shipped through the mail. Little animals are turned into commodities. AR people believe that animals are here for their own reasons, regardless of how we can use/exploit them.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.


Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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#6 Old 05-19-2007, 03:27 PM
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I understand Thanx.
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#7 Old 05-20-2007, 11:59 AM
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Humans and wind can also pollinate plants.
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#8 Old 05-21-2007, 09:40 PM
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You are familiar with side effects of drugs. It is not intended but happen. Bees do not intend to pollinate the plant. It is a side effect of them getting the pollen for themselves. The fruit is intended for you to eat so you can spread the children of the plants around. You eat the fruit and spit out the seeds somewhere else and they grow.
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#9 Old 05-22-2007, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by andys_rebecca View Post

I guess I do not understand the Vegan philosophy, because I am not sure how bees are involved. If you cannot have honey, how can you have any fruit?

I'm very glad you asked, and you're in some way right too

The key point however is:


Veganism (also known as strict vegetarianism or pure vegetarianism), as defined by the Vegan Society, is "a philosophy and way of living which seeks to excludeas far as is possible and practicalall forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

*emphasis by 1vegan

It's true that for (some) agricultural products like almonds etc, they intenionally use bees for pollination.

I don't know if acctually money changes hands, but beekeepers do make deals to put their hives near crops for pollination (nowadays)

This is, imho, partially due the reduced nr. of insects in the wild with all the pesticides used.

But, the point is that one does for veganisms "as far as is possible and practical ; it's not practical, nor possible to check how pollination of that article has been done, so that's beyond the possibilities of a regular vegan.

An option would be to grow your own, and let free roaming bees pollinate your crop, but that's not do able for a lot of people.

It's good to be as vegan as you can, but imho it's best to pick your battles, and do the things that can make a difference.

There are other things to conquer before you get to the "won't eat fruit" stage
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