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#1 Old 05-14-2017, 08:14 PM
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Post Roaming Millennial on Vegans

When it comes to political issues, I tend to agree with Roaming Millennial. However, she recently made an extremely stupid video titled "The Problem with Vegans".


There have been a lot of response videos to her, but my favorite so far is by Vegan Gains.


Vegan Gains also challenged Roaming Millennial to a live debate. She chickened out at first (no pun intended), but realized she humiliated herself so she came around.


Ranting Monkey also made a retarded video defending her from Vegan Gains.


Ranting Monkey's first retarded point is that Vegan Gains is a hypocritical psychopath, which Vegan Gains debunks in an earlier video.


Ranting Monkey's second retarded point is that "ur giving ur money to non-vegans so actually ur supporting animal cruelty lol"

If you pay someone, and that person uses their money to hire a hit man to kill you, are you at least partially responsible for you own murder? If Ranting Monkey would say no, he's creating a double standard. Nobody is responsible for how somebody else spends their money. Note: THEIR money. As in, it's not yours anymore.

Also, if I am not buying animal products, I lower the demand for them. If I give my money to a non-vegan, and they buy animal products, they are raising the demand, not me. So, by going vegan, you lower the demand for animal products, therefore you help reduce animal cruelty.

What are your thoughts on this?

Last edited by 121674; 05-14-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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#2 Old 05-14-2017, 10:23 PM
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Using "retarded" as an insult is very offensive. Retarded people have a medical condition which delays their physical and or mental development.

If you think someone or something they have said or done is wrong, foolish, ill-informed or just plain ridiculous say so but it is not necessary to be offensive to other people in the process.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

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#3 Old 05-15-2017, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
Using "retarded" as an insult is very offensive. Retarded people have a medical condition which delays their physical and or mental development.

If you think someone or something they have said or done is wrong, foolish, ill-informed or just plain ridiculous say so but it is not necessary to be offensive to other people in the process.
The definition of the word retarded has basically changed to mean "very stupid". I'd be surprised if anyone who is retarded, using the older definition, would care all that much. As an example, people with OCD usually don't care that people call others OCD when they don't even have it but are doing something someone with OCD might do.

Another example is that a lot of Native Americans find it funny that people are worried about a team being named the Washington Redskins or concerned about calling them Native Americans or American Indians. Usually the people who are supposedly offended are the ones who care the least.

Anyway, are we really going to get distracted from the topic at hand over semantics?

This video sums it up nicely.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ElU3NfyDPjg
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#4 Old 05-15-2017, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Riuma View Post
The definition of the word retarded has basically changed to mean "very stupid". I'd be surprised if anyone who is retarded, using the older definition, would care all that much. As an example, people with OCD usually don't care that people call others OCD when they don't even have it but are doing something someone with OCD might do.

Another example is that a lot of Native Americans find it funny that people are worried about a team being named the Washington Redskins or concerned about calling them Native Americans or American Indians. Usually the people who are supposedly offended are the ones who care the least.

Anyway, are we really going to get distracted from the topic at hand over semantics?

This video sums it up nicely.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ElU3NfyDPjg
The definition has not changed. People have been using in the sense you use it for a long time. Until it was pointed out how insensitive it is like many other words that are misused as insults when they are not.

I think you will find that anyone who has a retarded child or relative would be very offended. Two people I mentioned this to this afternoon were horrified that anyone could still be so insensitive.

"As an example, people with OCD usually don't care that people call others OCD when they don't even have it but are doing something someone with OCD might do." True, I am OCD and I don't care but the argument is like comparing apples to aeroplanes.

I think more people would pay attention to your post if you refrained from using offensive language.

I would (if I was you) have used "crass". It would only have been accurate without being offensive except perhaps to the person/people it was applied to.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk

Last edited by BlueMts; 05-15-2017 at 06:22 AM. Reason: clarity
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#5 Old 05-15-2017, 05:22 AM
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My opinion on your original post (without watching the videos) is that you have a point but why are you wasting your time and energy on people like that. You can't change them. Some people are just like that. Lost causes or just teenagers thinking they are being clever. Maybe they will change, get a soul from somewhere, maybe not.Some people can be woken up, some can't.
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When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk
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#6 Old 05-15-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
The definition has not changed. People have been using in the sense you use it for a long time. Until it was pointed out how insensitive it is like many other words that are misused as insults when they are not.

I think you will find that anyone who has a retarded child or relative would be very offended. Two people I mentioned this to this afternoon were horrified that anyone could still be so insensitive.

"As an example, people with OCD usually don't care that people call others OCD when they don't even have it but are doing something someone with OCD might do." True, I am OCD and I don't care but the argument is like comparing apples to aeroplanes.

I think more people would pay attention to your post if you refrained from using offensive language.

I would (if I was you) have used "crass". It would only have been accurate without being offensive except perhaps to the person/people it was applied to.
Despite people saying that it's insensitive many people continue to use it to mean stupid. The definition of words is decided by majority vote. Since most people use it to mean stupid, that's the new definition. I recommend watching that PragerU YouTube video I linked in my initial response to you.

Also, this is another YouTube video covering something related:

Retarded people or their relatives being offended hasn't been my experience. What I have seen is that instead of mental retardation it's Intellectual Developmental Disorder (IDD), Intellectual Disability, or General Learning Disability. Also, as a side note, some people with IDD have gotten offended when being called retarded.

Apples to aeroplanes? You seem to be saying that the more severe something is the more offensive it is if it's used incorrectly. Firstly, as I mentioned in the above two paragraphs, the majority of people have voted to change the definition of the word retarded. Secondly, OCD can be pretty severe. Thirdly, schizophrenics don't usually care when "schizophrenic" is used incorrectly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
My opinion on your original post (without watching the videos) is that you have a point but why are you wasting your time and energy on people like that. You can't change them. Some people are just like that. Lost causes or just teenagers thinking they are being clever. Maybe they will change, get a soul from somewhere, maybe not.Some people can be woken up, some can't.
Yea, I just thought people here would be interested in what's going on, watching the videos, and discussing them.
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Last edited by 121674; 05-15-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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#7 Old 05-15-2017, 03:39 PM
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I actually endured roaming millenial halfway and found it absolutely insufferable. Stupid. Ignorant. Hypocritical. So----why would you have watched it, and more importantly, felt we would want to discuss it?????????

Using "retarded", using long time cultural stereotypes as logos, referring to woman as "girls" are all ignorant and insensitive. It really doesn't matter that you know people who think it's okay.

Spreading and spewing hate speech are not 'rights'.

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#8 Old 05-15-2017, 04:55 PM
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I watched the debate. It was a mess. Roaming Millenial did not put out a single argument that could not be refuted (which was already expected), and Vegan Gains interrupted her constantly and would barely let her finish a sentence, which was just annoying. Ranting Monkey could have left the debate halfway through and no one would have noticed. Ask Yourself was imo the one that looked the best. Too bad he did not have time to put out more arguments/questions because Roaming Millenial and Vegan Gains were basically debating against each other only.
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#9 Old 05-15-2017, 06:57 PM
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I don't like, or agree with RM on a number of issues, so I found it hardly surprising she's so ignorant, ill-informed, and arrogant towards vegans...she's typically arrogant, pedestrian, condescending and a conservative reactionary who reminds me a little of Ann Coulter, what with her bizarre "tolerance" of white nationalism.

However, her vegan video was particularly insufferable, but better rebuttals were made by Mic the Vegan, Unnatural Vegan, and Ghost Vegan, than this VG debate, as initially pleasing as it is to watch him vent bile at her, it's all a mess.

I got roped into watching nearly every response video to this on vegan YouTube, including a severely misguided young woman who shall remain nameless, who was mocking a classic 90s pamphlet on Animal Rights philosophy by the founders of Vegan Outreach when they were called ALA, calling it "what not to do" and generally making a fool of herself. THERE ARE SOME REALLY ANNOYING PEOPLE ON VEGAN YOUTUBE.
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#10 Old 05-15-2017, 07:33 PM
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The wittiest, essay length response:


Best title:



And finally, for the hardcore:

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#11 Old 05-15-2017, 08:49 PM
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It's unfortunate that people took RM's bait hook, line, and sinker.

It's obvious this Roaming Millenial character knows nothing about veganism, or about health and nutrition whatsoever. But she certainly knows a thing about basic marketing 101 on YouTube.

Vloggers who are desperate for additional subscribers, view counts, and publicity these days, will conveniently pick a topic they know will be controversial and make inflammatory remarks about the topic (and its supporters). Then they sit back, laugh, and enjoy the free publicity as vloggers from YouTube land trip all over themselves to put out videos refuting these inflammatory statements.

Look at how many vloggers jumped on the RM bandwagon, all of them so eager to 'debate' her and refute her claims. The end result is that these people actually increased the notoriety and popularity of RM. Meaning more subscribers, more view counts, and more $$$. RM could care less about vegans or nutrition in general, she just wanted a convenient way to get free publicity. And it seemed to have worked as these things always do.
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#12 Old 05-15-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Riuma View Post
Spoiler



Despite people saying that it's insensitive many people continue to use it to mean stupid. The definition of words is decided by majority vote. Since most people use it to mean stupid, that's the new definition. I recommend watching that PragerU YouTube video I linked in my initial response to you.

Also, this is another YouTube video covering something related: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Kk_LJEYMM

Retarded people or their relatives being offended hasn't been my experience. What I have seen is that instead of mental retardation it's Intellectual Developmental Disorder (IDD), Intellectual Disability, or General Learning Disability. Also, as a side note, some people with IDD have gotten offended when being called retarded.

Apples to aeroplanes? You seem to be saying that the more severe something is the more offensive it is if it's used incorrectly. Firstly, as I mentioned in the above two paragraphs, the majority of people have voted to change the definition of the word retarded. Secondly, OCD can be pretty severe. Thirdly, schizophrenics don't usually care when "schizophrenic" is used incorrectly.




Yea, I just thought people here would be interested in what's going on, watching the videos, and discussing them.
Apples to Aeroplanes was meant to indicate completely different things - had nothing to do with severity.

Not going to comment on the rest except to say you think it's ok, I don't. lets agree to differ.

I never click on links unless I have a good idea what they are going to lead to. So that is the end of that. I've been doing this for a long time and I've seen and heard enough. I get very very angry about what is going on with animal cruelty and the people who think it is alright. Getting very very angry isn't very good for me.

However I want to say you seem very enthusiastic and I think that's great. It's hard to tell when it's just writing but your posts always "feel" energetic and really committed which I think is really great.
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#13 Old 05-15-2017, 10:58 PM
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I watched the debate. It was a mess. Roaming Millenial did not put out a single argument that could not be refuted (which was already expected), and Vegan Gains interrupted her constantly and would barely let her finish a sentence, which was just annoying. Ranting Monkey could have left the debate halfway through and no one would have noticed. Ask Yourself was imo the one that looked the best. Too bad he did not have time to put out more arguments/questions because Roaming Millenial and Vegan Gains were basically debating against each other only.
Yeah, Vegan Gains did interrupt frequently, but he actually calculated how much she talked during the debate. The debate lasted for 69 minutes, and Roaming Millenial talked for 26 minutes. This means Roaming Millenial talked for nearly 40% of the debate, and there were 4 people.
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#14 Old 05-15-2017, 11:30 PM
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However, her vegan video was particularly insufferable, but better rebuttals were made by Mic the Vegan, Unnatural Vegan, and Ghost Vegan, than this VG debate, as initially pleasing as it is to watch him vent bile at her, it's all a mess.
To be clear, the live debate wasn't VG's response video.

Here it is:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gR3hqOOA3jU
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#15 Old 05-15-2017, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by silva View Post
I actually endured roaming millenial halfway and found it absolutely insufferable. Stupid. Ignorant. Hypocritical. So----why would you have watched it, and more importantly, felt we would want to discuss it?????????

Using "retarded", using long time cultural stereotypes as logos, referring to woman as "girls" are all ignorant and insensitive. It really doesn't matter that you know people who think it's okay.

Spreading and spewing hate speech are not 'rights'.
I watched the response videos first. Seeing how they found it interesting, and the viewers did as well, I thought some of you would as well. It appears I was correct.

As for the talk about speech, to avoid filling this thread with unrelated replies, I'll post something in the Compost Heap. However, as it is late for me and I am only on a mobile device, I will do it later. If someone else wants to do it, btw, that's fine with me; I couldn't stop you anyway.
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#16 Old 05-17-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Riuma View Post
To be clear, the live debate wasn't VG's response video.

Here it is:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gR3hqOOA3jU
I "liked" his original response video, bc it was a good blend of catharctic and funny, but ultimately I thought Mic the Vegan did the best job because he never "proved her point" by acting aggressive, and showed her how wrong she was without being overtly hostile.

Not that I have a problem with overtly hostile in a case like this, but in terms of "winning" with people like this, Mic the Vegan and Unnatural Vegan called her out on her bull**** in the calmest and most rational way possible, while still being pretty funny about it.

I like Ghost Vegan because I feel like he's a true ethical vegan who is fed up with the ego pandering on vegan YouTube, and instead of trying to disprove RMs points with scientific facts or baiting her, he basically just showed RM and her cohorts for the hypocrites they are by juxtaposing her accusatory statements with horrific comments from the "meat proud".. he's really good at that, at showing people as they are without verbally arguing. I don't love every video, but he's so on point so many times without uttering more than 10-20 words. Sometimes zero.
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#17 Old 05-17-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by oldmanveggie View Post
It's unfortunate that people took RM's bait hook, line, and sinker.

It's obvious this Roaming Millenial character knows nothing about veganism, or about health and nutrition whatsoever. But she certainly knows a thing about basic marketing 101 on YouTube.

Vloggers who are desperate for additional subscribers, view counts, and publicity these days, will conveniently pick a topic they know will be controversial and make inflammatory remarks about the topic (and its supporters). Then they sit back, laugh, and enjoy the free publicity as vloggers from YouTube land trip all over themselves to put out videos refuting these inflammatory statements.

Look at how many vloggers jumped on the RM bandwagon, all of them so eager to 'debate' her and refute her claims. The end result is that these people actually increased the notoriety and popularity of RM. Meaning more subscribers, more view counts, and more $$$. RM could care less about vegans or nutrition in general, she just wanted a convenient way to get free publicity. And it seemed to have worked as these things always do.

On one hand you do have a point...on the other you don't. Vegan vloggers also know this is a "teachable" moment. Not for Roaming Millenial, or for her most rabid fans, but for other non-vegans who might watch their videos and learn something from her ignorance. Outside of Vegan Gains, and maybe one or two others, the videos were actually for other people. ...not for Roaming Millenial. Unnatural Vegan makes this clear in her follow-up video, called "Roaming Millenial and flat earthers"...or something similar. ..to explain why she refused to a live debate, the point is reaching a wider audience, not convincing RM she's wrong. Mic the Vegan also says that he thinks her points are worth arguing....not because she'll watch it, but because other people make the same ridiculous accusations.

I post like that sometimes. I'm not always that calculated, but sometimes responses are for who else will see it, not the person who made the original statement. This is much more true with vlogs, than with forum posts, but it's still a basic Internet principle.
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#18 Old 05-17-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Riuma View Post
Yeah, Vegan Gains did interrupt frequently, but he actually calculated how much she talked during the debate. The debate lasted for 69 minutes, and Roaming Millenial talked for 26 minutes. This means Roaming Millenial talked for nearly 40% of the debate, and there were 4 people.
This is an excellent point. Some people actually need to be interrupted because they dominate the conversation and won't let anyone else get a word in edgewise. People are quick to judge VG because he has such an aggressive style, but in this case I did feel his behavior was absolutely warranted (I just don't know how many people who don't understand veganism saw it that way).

With RM, I'm going to be honest, there's a lot of people who give her center stage because she's pretty and opinionated. By VGs choice of wife on less shallow grounds - she's cute but low maintainance and unconventional looking, more smart and strong and vegan than anything else - you can tell he doesn't have time for that crap. I do respect his response he made valid points, and sometimes people like her need to be put in their place, even if it's not "effective activism." I was amused though by people defending him, saying his no nonsense style is what made them go vegan.
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