Can a vegan diet improve one's mental health? - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 12Likes
  • 1 Post By Knowtions In Motion
  • 1 Post By MagicBeans
  • 1 Post By 121938
  • 3 Post By David3
  • 1 Post By silva
  • 4 Post By Naturebound
  • 1 Post By Thalassa
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 04-14-2017, 09:52 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Can a vegan diet improve one's mental health?

Hello,

I've been diagnosed with a form of mental illness, though I'd rather not say specifically which one. I've been eating vegan (specifically whole-foods plant-based) for about three weeks after taking a break from it for about one year.

I know vegan, WFPB diets greatly reduce risk of cancer and heart disease, and can improve diabetes to the point where diabetics no longer need insulin. It can also improve less common illnesses such as Crohn's disease and carpel tunnel. I've read books by John Robbins and T. Colin Campbell supporting these facts.

But is there any evidence that there's a positive link between vegan-eating and mental illness? In my own research, it simply appears that the research on the subject just isn't being done by scientists / researchers. But I remain optimistic seeing how healthy vegan eating can make you in other ways.

Thank you, and take care.

Last edited by MagicBeans; 04-14-2017 at 10:05 AM.
MagicBeans is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 04-14-2017, 10:05 AM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Hi MagicBeans,

Welcome to VeggieBoards!

The peer-reviewed studies confirm what you've said. Vegetarians have an overall lower incidence of ischemic heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and some types of cancer.

Unfortunately, I can't find any peer-reviewed studies showing that vegetarian diets are effective for treating mental illness.
.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
David3 is offline  
#3 Old 04-14-2017, 10:15 AM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Here's an interesting peer-reviewed study on the topic of mental illness and vegetarianism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ . It found that vegetarians are more likely to suffer from mental illness, BUT that the choice of a vegetarian diet took place after the onset of mental illness. In other words, vegetarianism doesn't cause the mental illness - rather, a person with mental illness appears more likely to choose vegetarianism.

I have lifelong major depression. I became vegan at age 22.
.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
David3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 04-14-2017, 11:05 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Thank you for the fast response, and your openness about depression David3.

I think the most telling excerpts from the study you linked to are these two:

Quote:
Although our knowledge about the association between vegetarian diet and physical health is based on numerous studies, relatively little data is available on the associations between vegetarian diet and mental health.
... and...

Quote:
Few empirical studies have directly tested associations between vegetarian diet patterns and mental health.
It seems like the research just isn't being done. If I could find a way to advocate for more research to be done, I would.

Meanwhile, I found an individual claim by a woman who says she "cured" schizophrenia, the most severe form of mental illness, with a vegan diet. I'm not allowed to post links, but search for "30 bananas a day schizophrenia" in Google.
MagicBeans is offline  
#5 Old 04-14-2017, 11:22 AM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBeans View Post

Meanwhile, I found an individual claim by a woman who says she "cured" schizophrenia, the most severe form of mental illness, with a vegan diet. I'm not allowed to post links, but search for "30 bananas a day schizophrenia" in Google.

I sincerely hope that this woman did, in fact, experience a recovery from her illness. However, one should be very skeptical of claims made on blogs and forums. There are individuals, and even "physicians", who claim that vegan diets can cure AIDS. Other health gurus claim that is possible to live without consuming any food or nutrients. These claims are not substantiated by any peer-reviewed studies.

.


.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
David3 is offline  
#6 Old 04-14-2017, 11:32 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
I sincerely hope that this woman did, in fact, experience a recovery from her illness. However, one should be very skeptical of claims made on blogs and forums. There are individuals, and even "physicians", who claim that vegan diets can cure AIDS. Other health gurus claim that is possible to live without consuming any food or nutrients. These claims are not substantiated by any peer-reviewed studies.

.


.
Very true.
MagicBeans is offline  
#7 Old 04-14-2017, 01:14 PM
Vegan, Mostly WFPB
 
Knowtions In Motion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: In My Heart
Posts: 276
I'm so glad you asked. It's one of my favorite subjects as I've lived on both sides of the fence as both a mental health employee and patient, as well as a full-blown SAD eater to now being full-blown whole food/plant-based/mindful of mucus forming foods/minus caffeine and alcohol consumer. I'm sort of my own walking billboard and have no documented evidence to provide other than my own experiences.

During my former life as a state employee in the vocational rehab field for over 13 years, I chose to speak up about several unethical things taking place and was immediately referred to a psychiatrist for what they explained was "simply to ensure we get our key employee back on track as there's obviously something out of balance that seems to be disturbing you that needs to be addressed". I was disturbed alright, by the sickening hypocrisy and the ease in which it was allowed to occur.

I do have a history of ptsd due to sexual abuse in my childhood, teen rape, and multiple domestic violence situations from long ago that I was fortunate to survive. However, once I was sent to the particular professional folks that the state agency specifically suggested that were approved by the insurance program being used, they very quickly diagnosed me with severe depression, severe anxiety, severe adhd, and an unidentifiable personality disorder (I asked if that meant I'd have one named after me) while totally and blatantly ignoring all of the very detailed info I shared regarding being molested, repeatedly raped, beaten, impregnated, being left for dead, etc.

Needless to say, they prescribed several heavy duty medications such as cymbalta, wellbutrin, effexor, abilify, lexapro, xanax, and there were a few more I can't recall, along with various stimulants to address each of the perceived issues, on top of prescription pain meds, sleep meds, anti-nausea meds, and muscle relaxers already being prescribed by my general practitioner for physical ailments I'd been diagnosed with through the years, like severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome, highly sensitive nervous stomach, insomnia, severe osteoarthritis, severe fibromyalgia, various respiratory issues, frequent viruses, etc..

I was morbidly obese during this time as well, but my blood work kept coming back "okay" according to my doc and no one ever mentioned my choices as being an issue since I was able to work full-time and juggle family life....until I couldn't. Nutrients and lifestyle was never a topic of discussion. I just assumed it was all genetic stuff I had to learn to deal with along with aging and such, just like I'd been told to believe from my family as well as many highly respected scientific and academic arenas.

Unfortunately, my issues continued to become more complex and more debilitating rather than finding relief via these experts and their suggested medication trials. My digestive life up until that point had been full-on hardcore Standard American Diet foods and beverages with nothing I perceived as being problematic, especially since most of my illnesses were continually blamed on viruses or "bugs" that the docs said I must have picked up somewhere along the way. I finally decided to cut out much of the processed and fast food stuff and started ingesting only local meats, eggs, dairy and such in hopes of finding relief, but still stayed ill more often than not, remained morbidly obese, and was quite uncomfortable, to the point of being nearly bed ridden.

Thanks to an emergency room visit a couple years later with gall bladder issues, on Easter Sunday of 2015, I decided to call up a hardcore vegan/fruitarian friend who had studied Iridology and is also a master herbalist to help me keep my gall bladder and figure out how to feel better through my food and other environmental choices, if possible. I dove right in to trying a raw vegan lifestyle, which I painfully learned wasn't wise, as a slower more rational transition is favored and much more comfortable and sustainable long term. I often remain a good example of what NOT to do in my journeys despite my best efforts to not be.

I haven't purposely eaten any animal products since the ER visit two years ago. I also learned more about mucus forming foods, food combining, chewing our foods well (even the liquids), I stopped drinking with my meals, learned of the importance of healthy and regular elimination of what we ingest, learned of the power of herbs, learned how to forage in my own backyard, how to grow some of my own food, etc. along with other things like daily movement, breath work, energetic exchanges, the path my food takes to get to me, who funds what and why, etc. and it totally flipped my life script in the best of ways. I learned to pull from the arenas that most resonated without feeling I had to subscribe in an all or nothing fashion to any one of them, except in regards to kindly leaving the animals out of it. My heart could never again knowingly accept an animal product.

I've since lost 110 lbs, take no more prescription meds (but I do supplement with B12, D3, a multi, zinc, and a few tinctures as I feel the need or desire), incorporate herbs into my daily beverage choices as my new favorite "teas", and feel better than I recall ever feeling, most days. There's a lot of long-term damage that will take long-term healing, and it's really hard to remember my limits sometimes on the good days. My fork has become my best therapeutic tool, by far, right along with my breath, my thoughts, and purposeful daily movement. It's taken a village. One I'm very grateful for.

That's been all the proof I need to see to be a believer. I had folks try to tell me of the benefits of veganism before, specifically my friend who helped me so much, but they only served to annoy me more than anything when I wasn't ready for the message. As usual, I had to be catapulted into it as I never ease into anything, especially the most helpful things, it seems. lol I used to put all of my faith in only things that already had sufficient documentation to support it until I was given ample opportunities to try the things that aren't. Glad I chose to dive in and it worked well for me. Much better than I was made to believe was possible for many years. Everyone's mileage varies. Tread kindly and wisely.
blue_green_gold likes this.

"Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool." ~Plato
Knowtions In Motion is offline  
#8 Old 04-14-2017, 01:51 PM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Physicians who ignore diet and lifestyle should have their licenses revoked! I believe that very strongly.

I've listened to a physician's viewpoint on this matter, also. My friend of the past 30+ years is a physician, and he finds it incredibly frustrating when his patients consistently ignore his suggestions to adopt a healthier lifestyle and weight. Here is a paraphrased example of a conversation that my physician friend has had too many times:

Patient with morbid obesity: "I hurt all over."

My friend the physician: "Well, I wonder if you might consider a referral to a dietitian. By improving your diet and losing weight, you can ease the pain in your knees and joints, and improve your overall health."

Patient with morbid obesity: "NO! I tried that! It doesn't work!"

My friend the physician, who has had this conversation with hundreds of patients during the past 20 years and is sick of it, says calmly: "Fine. Well, there are drug therapies that could potentially help you ."


These situations are incredibly frustrating, because it's likely that the patient has genuinely tried to lose weight, but unfortunately made the attempt using inaccurate nutrition information from a TV show, magazine, popular book / website, or diet "guru".

Accurate nutrition information and guidance can be obtained from a Registered Dietitian. There are Registered Dietitians who are specialized in vegetarian nutrition.

.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 04-14-2017 at 02:13 PM.
David3 is offline  
#9 Old 04-14-2017, 03:20 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,942
High fructose corn syrup is vegan
Fats that aren't animal sourced are vegan
processed foods, artificial colors, artificial flavors can all be vegan
Vegans eat foods not sourced from animals.
It isn't going to effect your mental health on a nutritional basis any more than being omni

Taking action to reduce anothers suffering may improve your mental health.
Acknowledging that you have a choice on contributing to slavery, abuse, and killing, and making the commitment to live your ethics--that's a pretty powerful step towards mental health

Not everyone has the same sensitivities to foods. Please refrain from generalities about 'mucus forming' foods, and 'food combining'.
I had been diagnosed with schizophrenia as a child, spent time in mental wards, and yet as an adult I managed to work through it--with LSD? maybe. Do I recommend it? Not for everyone.

There are so many variables in being vegan, I don't see how you can relate the absence of animal products to benefits outside of lack of cholestorol.

Even speaking of whole food plant based diets there are tons of variations.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good
silva is online now  
#10 Old 04-14-2017, 03:37 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowtions In Motion View Post
I'm so glad you asked. It's one of my favorite subjects as I've lived on both sides of the fence as both a mental health employee and patient, as well as a full-blown SAD eater to now being full-blown whole food/plant-based/mindful of mucus forming foods/minus caffeine and alcohol consumer. I'm sort of my own walking billboard and have no documented evidence to provide other than my own experiences.

During my former life as a state employee in the vocational rehab field for over 13 years, I chose to speak up about several unethical things taking place and was immediately referred to a psychiatrist for what they explained was "simply to ensure we get our key employee back on track as there's obviously something out of balance that seems to be disturbing you that needs to be addressed". I was disturbed alright, by the sickening hypocrisy and the ease in which it was allowed to occur.

I do have a history of ptsd due to sexual abuse in my childhood, teen rape, and multiple domestic violence situations from long ago that I was fortunate to survive. However, once I was sent to the particular professional folks that the state agency specifically suggested that were approved by the insurance program being used, they very quickly diagnosed me with severe depression, severe anxiety, severe adhd, and an unidentifiable personality disorder (I asked if that meant I'd have one named after me) while totally and blatantly ignoring all of the very detailed info I shared regarding being molested, repeatedly raped, beaten, impregnated, being left for dead, etc.

Needless to say, they prescribed several heavy duty medications such as cymbalta, wellbutrin, effexor, abilify, lexapro, xanax, and there were a few more I can't recall, along with various stimulants to address each of the perceived issues, on top of prescription pain meds, sleep meds, anti-nausea meds, and muscle relaxers already being prescribed by my general practitioner for physical ailments I'd been diagnosed with through the years, like severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome, highly sensitive nervous stomach, insomnia, severe osteoarthritis, severe fibromyalgia, various respiratory issues, frequent viruses, etc..

I was morbidly obese during this time as well, but my blood work kept coming back "okay" according to my doc and no one ever mentioned my choices as being an issue since I was able to work full-time and juggle family life....until I couldn't. Nutrients and lifestyle was never a topic of discussion. I just assumed it was all genetic stuff I had to learn to deal with along with aging and such, just like I'd been told to believe from my family as well as many highly respected scientific and academic arenas.

Unfortunately, my issues continued to become more complex and more debilitating rather than finding relief via these experts and their suggested medication trials. My digestive life up until that point had been full-on hardcore Standard American Diet foods and beverages with nothing I perceived as being problematic, especially since most of my illnesses were continually blamed on viruses or "bugs" that the docs said I must have picked up somewhere along the way. I finally decided to cut out much of the processed and fast food stuff and started ingesting only local meats, eggs, dairy and such in hopes of finding relief, but still stayed ill more often than not, remained morbidly obese, and was quite uncomfortable, to the point of being nearly bed ridden.

Thanks to an emergency room visit a couple years later with gall bladder issues, on Easter Sunday of 2015, I decided to call up a hardcore vegan/fruitarian friend who had studied Iridology and is also a master herbalist to help me keep my gall bladder and figure out how to feel better through my food and other environmental choices, if possible. I dove right in to trying a raw vegan lifestyle, which I painfully learned wasn't wise, as a slower more rational transition is favored and much more comfortable and sustainable long term. I often remain a good example of what NOT to do in my journeys despite my best efforts to not be.

I haven't purposely eaten any animal products since the ER visit two years ago. I also learned more about mucus forming foods, food combining, chewing our foods well (even the liquids), I stopped drinking with my meals, learned of the importance of healthy and regular elimination of what we ingest, learned of the power of herbs, learned how to forage in my own backyard, how to grow some of my own food, etc. along with other things like daily movement, breath work, energetic exchanges, the path my food takes to get to me, who funds what and why, etc. and it totally flipped my life script in the best of ways. I learned to pull from the arenas that most resonated without feeling I had to subscribe in an all or nothing fashion to any one of them, except in regards to kindly leaving the animals out of it. My heart could never again knowingly accept an animal product.

I've since lost 110 lbs, take no more prescription meds (but I do supplement with B12, D3, a multi, zinc, and a few tinctures as I feel the need or desire), incorporate herbs into my daily beverage choices as my new favorite "teas", and feel better than I recall ever feeling, most days. There's a lot of long-term damage that will take long-term healing, and it's really hard to remember my limits sometimes on the good days. My fork has become my best therapeutic tool, by far, right along with my breath, my thoughts, and purposeful daily movement. It's taken a village. One I'm very grateful for.

That's been all the proof I need to see to be a believer. I had folks try to tell me of the benefits of veganism before, specifically my friend who helped me so much, but they only served to annoy me more than anything when I wasn't ready for the message. As usual, I had to be catapulted into it as I never ease into anything, especially the most helpful things, it seems. lol I used to put all of my faith in only things that already had sufficient documentation to support it until I was given ample opportunities to try the things that aren't. Glad I chose to dive in and it worked well for me. Much better than I was made to believe was possible for many years. Everyone's mileage varies. Tread kindly and wisely.
Thank you for your honesty and I'm happy to hear you're doing well.

My mental illness is more severe than depression, although it sounds like you were suffering through a lot. I had an episode this morning, so I understand what you mean when you say long term damage will take long term healing. I've been on a vegan WFPB diet for about three weeks. I'm actually on a low dose of anti-psychotic medication, and don't have episodes very much at all. I had a lot of caffeine this morning and I think that might have been the culprit to what happened today. I will also say, I used to need a lot of anti-anxiety medication for anxiety attacks, but since switching to WFPB, I'm now on the lowest possible dose and about to go off of that medication.

I keep finding individual success stories on the internet (people talking about the "brain-gut connection", e.g.), but it looks like the scientific community just hasn't done much research at all. It's likely because the scientific community and the nutrition community aren't the same thing.

Thanks again.
MagicBeans is offline  
#11 Old 04-14-2017, 03:54 PM
Vegan, Mostly WFPB
 
Knowtions In Motion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: In My Heart
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
High fructose corn syrup is vegan
Fats that aren't animal sourced are vegan
processed foods, artificial colors, artificial flavors can all be vegan
Vegans eat foods not sourced from animals.
It isn't going to effect your mental health on a nutritional basis any more than being omni

Taking action to reduce anothers suffering may improve your mental health.
Acknowledging that you have a choice on contributing to slavery, abuse, and killing, and making the commitment to live your ethics--that's a pretty powerful step towards mental health

Not everyone has the same sensitivities to foods. Please refrain from generalities about 'mucus forming' foods, and 'food combining'.
I had been diagnosed with schizophrenia as a child, spent time in mental wards, and yet as an adult I managed to work through it--with LSD? maybe. Do I recommend it? Not for everyone.

There are so many variables in being vegan, I don't see how you can relate the absence of animal products to benefits outside of lack of cholestorol.

Even speaking of whole food plant based diets there are tons of variations.
I don't feel that I've made a sweeping statement to suggest that everyone would benefit from the exact things I have learned by directly trying them out. I simply shared what worked for ME.

Sharing what has worked for one doesn't mean it's an automatic recommendation that everyone rush out and try it, it's simply offering a perspective into what worked for one.

I even make it a point to add how I didn't do it wisely to begin with and suffered as a result and can often be a lesson in what NOT to do. Not sure how much more transparent, open, and thorough I can be.

I share what I've specifically learned that helped me the most, the experiences that led up to it, and how the things I have actually tried have or have not benefited me personally.

I can only tell it as I've lived it. How exactly can I share my story to better suit forum/your expectations that can still reflect it for what it truly is?

"Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool." ~Plato
Knowtions In Motion is offline  
#12 Old 04-14-2017, 04:49 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBeans View Post
Hello,

I've been diagnosed with a form of mental illness, though I'd rather not say specifically which one. I've been eating vegan (specifically whole-foods plant-based) for about three weeks after taking a break from it for about one year.

I know vegan, WFPB diets greatly reduce risk of cancer and heart disease, and can improve diabetes to the point where diabetics no longer need insulin. It can also improve less common illnesses such as Crohn's disease and carpel tunnel. I've read books by John Robbins and T. Colin Campbell supporting these facts.

But is there any evidence that there's a positive link between vegan-eating and mental illness? In my own research, it simply appears that the research on the subject just isn't being done by scientists / researchers. But I remain optimistic seeing how healthy vegan eating can make you in other ways.

Thank you, and take care.
Here's an interesting PubMed page that I found once upon a time. 'Restriction of meat items improves mood of omnivores'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22333737

Don't know if that's what you're looking for.
David3 likes this.
121938 is offline  
#13 Old 04-14-2017, 06:33 PM
Newbie
 
blue_green_gold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 75
I don't know of any studies, but thought I'd offer an observation.

Probably you've considered this, but the brain is a physical organ and its tissues are affected by what you eat just like any other organ in the body. If whole vegan foods are good for diabetes and heart disease, I can't imagine that they would not be good for brain disorders.
blue_green_gold is offline  
#14 Old 04-14-2017, 08:35 PM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowtions In Motion View Post
I haven't purposely eaten any animal products since the ER visit two years ago. I also learned more about mucus forming foods, food combining, chewing our foods well (even the liquids), I stopped drinking with my meals, learned of the importance of healthy and regular elimination of what we ingest, learned of the power of herbs, learned how to forage in my own backyard, how to grow some of my own food, etc. along with other things like daily movement, breath work, energetic exchanges, the path my food takes to get to me, who funds what and why, etc. and it totally flipped my life script in the best of ways.

Some gentle and respectful intervention is needed here. Please forgive me, everyone.

The "mucus free" diet referenced above has many positive aspects: elimination of animal products, emphasis on fresh fruits and vegetables, etc.

However, the "mucus free" diet also makes recommendations that are not healthy or well-substantiated. The following recommendations*, made by mucus-free diet proponent Professor Spira, are contrary to the recommendations of every mainstream vegan organization:

Poorly-supported claims of the mucus-free diet:

1. Beans should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

2. Grains (including whole grains) should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

3. Nuts and seeds should ideally be eliminated from one's diet


All of these foods are, in fact, very healthy. All mainstream vegan organizations (and all mainstream health organizations) recommend beans, whole grains, nuts, and seeds (please see links below).

From the Vegan Society:
https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ients/overview

From the (vegan) Vegetarian Resource Group:
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm#nut

From Vegan Outreach:
http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/intro

From the American Heart Association:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...05_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...49_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/News/G...58_Article.jsp

From the American Diabetes Association:
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...-guide-to.html
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...rbs-count.html
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...uperfoods.html


Again, please forgive! I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time! It's a sincere goal of this forum to provide evidence-based nutrition recommendations to new vegans. Beans, whole grains, and nuts are important parts of good vegan nutrition.


* Link to Professor Spira's (well-intentioned but) flawed recommendations: https://www.mucusfreelife.com/mucus-forming-foods/
Spudulika, Thalassa and BlueMts like this.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 04-14-2017 at 08:52 PM.
David3 is offline  
#15 Old 04-14-2017, 08:43 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,942
This, by Ginny Messina, is well worth the read-I see it all too often, and often here--

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/ho...-veganism.html
David3 likes this.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good
silva is online now  
#16 Old 04-14-2017, 11:34 PM
person
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: gone
Posts: 679
My answer (based on personal experience again because there is a dearth of research) is no - unless the person who is sick is on an omni diet that is making them sick..

You can't fix damaged brain cells you can only (sometimes) stop more damage from being done and train other brain cells to take over from the damaged ones.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk
BlueMts is offline  
#17 Old 04-15-2017, 03:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Naturebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,609
I am one who gets frustrated by this idea and promise that diet can cure anything. Food is not some magical miracle.

Mental illness is very complex. If a diet were able to improve and manage it, I think a lot more people would be following it.

My sister was vegan for about 2 years. she has paranoid schizophrenia (diagnosed at age 13, she is now 47). She also has borderline personality disorder. What IS amazing is how she went from eating processed frozen meals and candy bars every day to learning how to cook for herself and making homemade healthy meals. She lost over 70 lbs to a very healthy weight, and began exercising at a gym despite her fears of judgment and being in large crowds. But...she still suffered with the same symptoms and she still needed the same meds. She is a "flexatarian" now, an omnivore but mostly eats vegetarian except when pressured by my Mom to include some meat...sighs.

I've been vegan for six years and I have several mental illnesses. One is avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety, the other an eating disorder (for years it was anorexia nervosa, now simply EdNOS). Going vegan did not change that in a diet sense (and I am one who eats mostly whole foods with occasional processed). I did however participate in animal rights activism and went out and leafleted and contact organizations which required getting way out of my comfort zone. It gave me a sense of purpose and confidence. It was also incredibly hard for me to do, and I had little support or help. I leafleted 6 colleges and high schools alone, tabled a college alone, wotked with the director of nutrition services at a local hospital to get vegan food on the menu and to patients, staff, and visitors. I had to talk spontaneously to a lot of people which does NOT come naturally to me. But it was good for me. I now work full time and don't have the time I once did for this type of activity, and I can feel myself recently sliding back into my comfort zone and withdrawing from others. Its a constant battle. Being vegan has not changed my mental and emotional constitution. If anything I am MORE sensitive and emotional because I am empathetic to suffering and exploitation and my eyes are far more opened to it knowing about our food industry and all the ways we exploit animals and labor. Some days I am downright discouraged by humans and ashamed to be part of this species.

When my sister was first diagnosed, she had had a grand mal seizure and so they did a lot of various xrays...PET scan, CT scan etc. Her brain showed areas of activity that were far off the norm, and indicated her severe mental illness. She had been hallucinating for a long time, and had bizarre behaviors. I remember us as a family going to numerous therapists trying to figure out what was wrong with her. After those scans, we were told she had paranoid schizophrenia. At that time she was severely underweight and refusing to eat because she feared someone was trying to poison her food. I just can't see how avoiding a particular food, or eating the "right" food, could overcome that.
David3, Thalassa, BlueMts and 1 others like this.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naturebound is offline  
#18 Old 04-15-2017, 08:07 AM
Vegan, Mostly WFPB
 
Knowtions In Motion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: In My Heart
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Some gentle and respectful intervention is needed here. Please forgive me, everyone.

The "mucus free" diet referenced above has many positive aspects: elimination of animal products, emphasis on fresh fruits and vegetables, etc.

However, the "mucus free" diet also makes recommendations that are not healthy or well-substantiated. The following recommendations*, made by mucus-free diet proponent Professor Spira, are contrary to the recommendations of every mainstream vegan organization:

Poorly-supported claims of the mucus-free diet:

1. Beans should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

2. Grains (including whole grains) should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

3. Nuts and seeds should ideally be eliminated from one's diet


All of these foods are, in fact, very healthy. All mainstream vegan organizations (and all mainstream health organizations) recommend beans, whole grains, nuts, and seeds (please see links below).

From the Vegan Society:
https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ients/overview

From the (vegan) Vegetarian Resource Group:
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm#nut

From Vegan Outreach:
http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/intro

From the American Heart Association:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...05_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...49_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/News/G...58_Article.jsp

From the American Diabetes Association:
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...-guide-to.html
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...rbs-count.html
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...uperfoods.html


Again, please forgive! I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time! It's a sincere goal of this forum to provide evidence-based nutrition recommendations to new vegans. Beans, whole grains, and nuts are important parts of good vegan nutrition.


* Link to Professor Spira's (well-intentioned but) flawed recommendations: https://www.mucusfreelife.com/mucus-forming-foods/
I appreciate your "gentle and respectful intervention", along with the additional private message you've sent for the second time now, but your well-meaning intervention, nor all of the studies you piled upon it, will change the fact that my direct and ongoing experiences of the last two+ years in limiting mucus forming foods in my meals, in addition to all of the other highly beneficial things I mentioned, has helped my overall health in ways I had been told for years were not possible. I may very well be an exception to a rule, but does that mean it's okay to lessen my experience?

This has all been supported by me receiving regular follow up blood work, vitamin levels, and hormone levels testing with professionals (several who now often call upon me and refer others to me for advice when it comes to sensibly adding more plants to their diet), and I had also worked closely with a registered dietitian for quite a while prior to learning of mucus forming foods, food combining, etc., as you suggested above to others, although she was still convinced we needed at least a few animal products to be truly healthy since she follows the recommendations taught to her in a very reputable university and suggested by many of the above alphabet agencies.

It appears my presence is allowed here but my direct experience isn't welcomed here no matter how well it works for me and no matter how honest and open I am in my sharing of these life changing bits of info along the way. I have not totally eliminated beans, nuts, and seeds, nor do I plan to. I don't follow Spira's words as gospel, just as guidance, along with many other guides that deeply resonate, be it alphabet agencies, peer-reviewed data, or direct experience.

Is there a gentle and respectful intervention you can provide to help me better express myself regarding what I've personally tried and come to know as the ideal methods that work for me in a way that it will be considered more acceptable here, or should I take this intervention as a hint that I should just move along and share my new learned healthy habits elsewhere and not come back here until there's peer-reviewed documentation to back up what I've already learned to be true for my own biology?

If that's the case, do you know of any other veggie based online forums that allow more open and honest discussion as it relates to direct personal experiences that aren't continually intervened with to be repeatedly told how incorrect one must be, regardless of their own proven success with it? If so, please share.

"Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool." ~Plato
Knowtions In Motion is offline  
#19 Old 04-15-2017, 09:36 AM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowtions In Motion View Post
I appreciate your "gentle and respectful intervention", along with the additional private message you've sent for the second time now, but your well-meaning intervention, nor all of the studies you piled upon it, will change the fact that my direct and ongoing experiences of the last two+ years in limiting mucus forming foods in my meals, in addition to all of the other highly beneficial things I mentioned, has helped my overall health in ways I had been told for years were not possible. I may very well be an exception to a rule, but does that mean it's okay to lessen my experience?

This has all been supported by me receiving regular follow up blood work, vitamin levels, and hormone levels testing with professionals (several who now often call upon me and refer others to me for advice when it comes to sensibly adding more plants to their diet), and I had also worked closely with a registered dietitian for quite a while prior to learning of mucus forming foods, food combining, etc., as you suggested above to others, although she was still convinced we needed at least a few animal products to be truly healthy since she follows the recommendations taught to her in a very reputable university and suggested by many of the above alphabet agencies.

It appears my presence is allowed here but my direct experience isn't welcomed here no matter how well it works for me and no matter how honest and open I am in my sharing of these life changing bits of info along the way. I have not totally eliminated beans, nuts, and seeds, nor do I plan to. I don't follow Spira's words as gospel, just as guidance, along with many other guides that deeply resonate, be it alphabet agencies, peer-reviewed data, or direct experience.

Is there a gentle and respectful intervention you can provide to help me better express myself regarding what I've personally tried and come to know as the ideal methods that work for me in a way that it will be considered more acceptable here, or should I take this intervention as a hint that I should just move along and share my new learned healthy habits elsewhere and not come back here until there's peer-reviewed documentation to back up what I've already learned to be true for my own biology?

If that's the case, do you know of any other veggie based online forums that allow more open and honest discussion as it relates to direct personal experiences that aren't continually intervened with to be repeatedly told how incorrect one must be, regardless of their own proven success with it? If so, please share.

I've never doubted that you saved and transformed your own health, Knowtions! Your health recovery inspires me.

Yes, a diet centered around fruits and non-starchy vegetables can potentially be healthy, if carefully and properly planned. However, there is absolutely no need to follow the "mucus free" recommendation to reduce/eliminate beans, starchy vegetables, or whole grains in one's diet. Trying to avoid these healthy and satisfying foods can make it much harder for people to stay vegan and achieve nutritional balance.

I am not trying to make any difficulty for you, or for anyone else. I am trying to help keep this forum factual. I don't want this to be a personal power struggle between anyone here.


Please don't leave the forum, Knowtions! You've made an incredible feat of health recovery, and there are people who will be empowered by what you've accomplished.
.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 04-15-2017 at 10:58 AM.
David3 is offline  
#20 Old 04-15-2017, 11:59 AM
Vegan, Mostly WFPB
 
Knowtions In Motion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: In My Heart
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
I've never doubted that you saved and transformed your own health, Knowtions! Your health recovery inspires me.

Yes, a diet centered around fruits and non-starchy vegetables can potentially be healthy, if carefully and properly planned. However, there is absolutely no need to follow the "mucus free" recommendation to reduce/eliminate beans, starchy vegetables, or whole grains in one's diet. Trying to avoid these healthy and satisfying foods can make it much harder for people to stay vegan and achieve nutritional balance.

I am not trying to make any difficulty for you, or for anyone else. I am trying to help keep this forum factual. I don't want this to be a personal power struggle between anyone here.

I believe that you might find a more interested forum if you look for forums on fruitarianism, Doug Graham, 80-10-10, and raw veganism. However, for the sake of your continued health and education, I urge you be skeptical of what is written on those forums; they contain too many potentially-dangerous nutrition myths. Many proponents of fruitarianism, for example, claim that raw vegans don't need to supplement with vitamin B12, or that spices are harmful, or that cooked food is poisonous.
.
Thanks. I plan to remain healthily skeptical in my journey, even of things stated and already heavily studied as facts, as each individual and circumstance is very different. Some of the greatest nutritional myths ever known to man have come from the exact places you stress that we should so heavily believe in.

I find it disturbing, especially after having the quality of my life so greatly lessened by those highly respected agencies, professionals, and such in various ways through the years, that what is proven to be actual fact for one is automatically considered hogwash by others unless it's already backed by multiple agencies of some sort and been proven fact for many.

I'll refrain from sharing my direct hard-learned health experiences, benefits, and such in the future in this forum unless I'm directly asked about it since this is such a strongly and repeatedly expressed non-interested space to be doing so, minus a few who have expressed their heartfelt gratitude.

It seems like a part of the overall learning experience is greatly lessened when we're not allowed to share our various experiences in full as they have actually occurred since pieces and parts of it are so frowned upon. Selective learning, it seems.

As always, I appreciate all learning opportunities, even from the folks I may not agree with for whatever reason. Each experience and story has value. I just happen to have found much more meaningful value in the lesser believed/studied stuff in MANY instances. Grateful for the favorable and often unexpected circumstances that led to each.

Cheers and best wishes for improved overall wellness to all. You're worth the investment of your time and efforts to find what works best for you, beyond just believing what you read, no matter where you read it. Genuine help can be found in some of the damnedest places. Peace.

"Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool." ~Plato
Knowtions In Motion is offline  
#21 Old 04-21-2017, 06:20 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Most mental health issues either have a genetic component, a link to head trauma or injury, or derives from a repetitive learned behavior that can be triggered by environment (addiction being the the clearest example of the last one)...so..do I think veganism changes genes, cures head injury or magically teaches addicts or borderlines lifestyle changes that typically take years of therapy, group support and/or behavioral modification to change? Ah, no. Remember River Phoenix?

HOWEVER, a balanced diet - particularly a plant based one - will improve overall health, which is a great step towards general mood stabilization, ability to concentrate, confidence and contentment, all strong traits of good mental health and could possibly trigger other changes, like seeking therapy, managing addiction or starting to exercise, which also helps with mood and stress management.

I have seen studies that suggest that elderly people are less likely to get degenerative neurological diseases like Alzheimers, which are more triggered by heavy animal product diets, but I don't think veganism alone fixes heroin addiction or schizophrenia. Also the health benefits of veganism could be lessened by other unhealthy behaviors, like heavy smoking or alcoholism.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#22 Old 04-21-2017, 06:39 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post
I am one who gets frustrated by this idea and promise that diet can cure anything. Food is not some magical miracle.

Mental illness is very complex. If a diet were able to improve and manage it, I think a lot more people would be following it.

My sister was vegan for about 2 years. she has paranoid schizophrenia (diagnosed at age 13, she is now 47). She also has borderline personality disorder. What IS amazing is how she went from eating processed frozen meals and candy bars every day to learning how to cook for herself and making homemade healthy meals. She lost over 70 lbs to a very healthy weight, and began exercising at a gym despite her fears of judgment and being in large crowds. But...she still suffered with the same symptoms and she still needed the same meds. She is a "flexatarian" now, an omnivore but mostly eats vegetarian except when pressured by my Mom to include some meat...sighs.

I've been vegan for six years and I have several mental illnesses. One is avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety, the other an eating disorder (for years it was anorexia nervosa, now simply EdNOS). Going vegan did not change that in a diet sense (and I am one who eats mostly whole foods with occasional processed). I did however participate in animal rights activism and went out and leafleted and contact organizations which required getting way out of my comfort zone. It gave me a sense of purpose and confidence. It was also incredibly hard for me to do, and I had little support or help. I leafleted 6 colleges and high schools alone, tabled a college alone, wotked with the director of nutrition services at a local hospital to get vegan food on the menu and to patients, staff, and visitors. I had to talk spontaneously to a lot of people which does NOT come naturally to me. But it was good for me. I now work full time and don't have the time I once did for this type of activity, and I can feel myself recently sliding back into my comfort zone and withdrawing from others. Its a constant battle. Being vegan has not changed my mental and emotional constitution. If anything I am MORE sensitive and emotional because I am empathetic to suffering and exploitation and my eyes are far more opened to it knowing about our food industry and all the ways we exploit animals and labor. Some days I am downright discouraged by humans and ashamed to be part of this species.

When my sister was first diagnosed, she had had a grand mal seizure and so they did a lot of various xrays...PET scan, CT scan etc. Her brain showed areas of activity that were far off the norm, and indicated her severe mental illness. She had been hallucinating for a long time, and had bizarre behaviors. I remember us as a family going to numerous therapists trying to figure out what was wrong with her. After those scans, we were told she had paranoid schizophrenia. At that time she was severely underweight and refusing to eat because she feared someone was trying to poison her food. I just can't see how avoiding a particular food, or eating the "right" food, could overcome that.
I think that's great that the ethical side of veganism inspired you to be more confident because you cared about the animals and it sounds like you are managing your eating disorder better.

There are cases of mental health disturbance which are due to malnutrition, nutrient deficiency or extremely poor eating...Dr. Abram Hoffer began stabilizing some of his schizophrenic patients who were seen as lost causes a few decades ago by giving them megadoses of B vitamins and also psychotropic meds, allowing patients who were, at that time, often helpless and institutionalized, be able to live outside on their own or with family. There have also been links to poor nutrition, too much sugar, highly processed junk foods, and synthetic chemicals and lack of fresh air and exercise, and what is commonly called "attention deficit disorder."

Bipolar patients were also found fifty years ago to be in need of lithium salts, so there's that too.

However, I mostly agree with you that mental illness cannot be treated by diet alone...it can't be treated by medication alone though either. Mental health professionals become extremely frustrated with people who refuse to eat better, exercise, come to therapy and avoid bad habits, so veganism could be considered one aspect of mental hygeine. Just not the whole story.

I don't believe being empathetic or angry or sad is a mental illness, I frankly believe that the truly insane people are those who have accepted industrialism, pollution, cruelty, corporate capitalism and brutal factory farms as "normal." It is absolutely normal to be upset by unreasonable, selfish, oblivious and cruel societies. Some scholars have actually declared the United States to be an empire in decline, with all of the excess, amorality, destruction and fiscal irrationality of other empires that crumbled in written human history.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#23 Old 04-21-2017, 07:04 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Some gentle and respectful intervention is needed here. Please forgive me, everyone.

The "mucus free" diet referenced above has many positive aspects: elimination of animal products, emphasis on fresh fruits and vegetables, etc.

However, the "mucus free" diet also makes recommendations that are not healthy or well-substantiated. The following recommendations*, made by mucus-free diet proponent Professor Spira, are contrary to the recommendations of every mainstream vegan organization:

Poorly-supported claims of the mucus-free diet:

1. Beans should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

2. Grains (including whole grains) should ideally be eliminated from one's diet

3. Nuts and seeds should ideally be eliminated from one's diet


All of these foods are, in fact, very healthy. All mainstream vegan organizations (and all mainstream health organizations) recommend beans, whole grains, nuts, and seeds (please see links below).

From the Vegan Society:
https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ients/overview

From the (vegan) Vegetarian Resource Group:
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm#nut

From Vegan Outreach:
http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/intro

From the American Heart Association:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...05_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...49_Article.jsp
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/News/G...58_Article.jsp

From the American Diabetes Association:
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...-guide-to.html
http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/...rbs-count.html
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...uperfoods.html


Again, please forgive! I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time! It's a sincere goal of this forum to provide evidence-based nutrition recommendations to new vegans. Beans, whole grains, and nuts are important parts of good vegan nutrition.


* Link to Professor Spira's (well-intentioned but) flawed recommendations: https://www.mucusfreelife.com/mucus-forming-foods/

Yes that sounds like an extremely dangerous diet.


People can technically live on monofast diets for short periods of time (up to months. For example the great conservationist John Muir sometimes only ate bread and tea for weeks when he was out on the trail, occasionally picking nuts or berries, but never taking more than bread and tea, or grain mush and coffee.. .he also reportedly survived through nearly three years of college mainly on baked potatoes, graham mush, oat porridge, and a little dairy as his basic daily staples....but there were times that he ate other foods, or even ate large meals. In our modern lingo he would be deemed a flexitarian, who spent significant stretches of time on purely plant based diets, and who was essentially a quasi-vegetarian throughout the first twelve years of his life in Scotland, with typically about a cup of milk and small piece of boiled mutton to add his daily grains, potatoes and vegetable soup.

None of this means, though, that people should try to literally live on nothing but bread and tea...or in the case of the "mucus free" diet, on fruits and vegetables without even the benefits of nuts and seeds. Most balanced raw vegans still eat nuts and seeds, even sprouted grains...the much maligned 30 bananas a day even recommended an evening meal of potatoes or whole grains.

Any diet that recommends against healthy fats, all carbs, and completely denies the human need for B12, omega 3s, or essential amino acids, is a fast, not a lifestyle anyone should follow long term.
Spudulika likes this.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#24 Old 11-20-2019, 12:04 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
Post

Yes there are some positive aspects between eating vegan and mental illness & this is how vegan food can lead to better metal health. All plant based foods are full of antioxidants, minerals, and vitamins & if you regularly take Vegan Diet then it can assist you to overcome oxidative stress.

Vegan diet also plays an important role for increasing Serotonin. It is said to be neurotransmitter that is very essential for mental health. It will help for improving sleeping pattern and stabilizing the person’s mod.

It is not necessary that vegan diet is only the fresh vegetables, but vegan is available in almost all types of packed food items as well.
Tayla Hindley is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off