Vegan who thinks he needs to start eating eggs - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-02-2016, 04:23 AM
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Unhappy Vegan who thinks he needs to start eating eggs

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this dilemma i am having. I have been vegan for about a year and because of ongoing health issues i have routine blood tests. My recent blood tests showed that i have borderline B12 levels but more importantly a very low Omega 3 rating specifically DHA/EPA, which in turn is causing a very high Omega 6:3 ratio of 25:1

I have tried to supplement both B12 and DHA/EPA but i react VERY badly to supplements, i have tried at least three variants of each and they leave me feeling wired with heart palpitations and insomnia. On the advice of a nutritionist three months ago i cut right back on cooking with oils and started to consume AT LEAST two heaped spoonfuls of flax/chia seeds EVERY day, but i just got my Omega test back again and my ratio is actually slightly higher than it was, now 25:1. My ALA score had increased slightly, but my DHA/EPA scores had continued to decrease.

NB My Omega 6 score is PERFECT so my nutritionist agrees that it does not make sense to try and cut that back even more in a futile attempt to balance the ratio, even if i were to reduce the ratio slightly that way i would still be deficient in DHA/EPA because on my vegan diet i am not consuming any foods that contain DHA/EPA. I had hoped my body would convert ALA into the necessary DHA/EPA but in both my case and my wife's case who has the same 25:1 ratio, our bodies are not converting ALA adequately. FYI my wife and i even bothered to get genetic tests done to see if we had a genetic mutation that was causing the low conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA but there was no such mutation. I have also since read a lot of research that confirms the conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA is indeed minimal, which is why many leading vegan doctors and nutritionists including Dr Greger do say that vegans need to supplement with DHA/EPA.

Given that i am genuinely unable to supplement i see no choice but to look for a cruelty free source of DHA/EPA. The best option i can come up with would be rescuing some chickens and keeping them in my garden as pets. Eggs are a good source of B12, DHA/EPA, Vitamin D, Selenium, Iodine etc. which should deal with my deficiencies.

I am really gutted to have to do this, as i am proud to consider myself a vegan, but at the same time i am not prepared to live with known deficiencies when i am already suffering with ill health. DHA/EPA have important to roles to play in both brain and heart health.

Sorry if this sounds a bit dramatic, but it is a real dilemma for me.

Appreciate your thoughts...

Last edited by jhothehornet; 05-02-2016 at 04:30 AM.
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#2 Old 05-02-2016, 04:40 AM
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Honestly I think you should employ the services of a nutritionist or dietician to help you. They will be able to look at alternatives to the supplements that you are reacting badly to and may even have some insight into why the supplements aren't working out.
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#3 Old 05-02-2016, 04:59 AM
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Appreciate your reply, but we have worked with several nutritionists and dieticians on this already, they are obviously all saying if i can not tolerate supplements i need to be getting my DHA/EPA from a food source.

B12
- I have tried methyl (sublingual and spray), cyano (sublingual) and hydroxy (sublingual)

DHA/EPA
- I have tried Opti3, Cytoplan and Ovega

Also to be completely honest even if i could tolerate them i am starting to question the idea of having to supplement daily with not one but two supplements now, especially when it comes to giving them to my vegan children. We as a family fully bought into the reasoning and need to supplement B12 (soil too clean etc.) but making my children supplement with B12 and DHA/EPA every day for the rest of their life feels a bit unnatural to me? Where as if we as a family were to start eating eggs from our own chickens, we would no longer need to supplement with either B12 or DHA/EPA. If it was just me i think i would still go ahead and supplement if i could tolerate them, but i don't feel as comfortable making my kids supplement given the limited research on long term supplementation.

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#4 Old 05-02-2016, 09:08 AM
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I think you should do whatever is necessary to be healthy. Your heart and intentions are in the right place and you can't substitute your health. Good luck and hope all turns out well.
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#5 Old 05-02-2016, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhothehornet View Post
I would really appreciate your thoughts on this dilemma i am having. I have been vegan for about a year and because of ongoing health issues i have routine blood tests. My recent blood tests showed that i have borderline B12 levels but more importantly a very low Omega 3 rating specifically DHA/EPA, which in turn is causing a very high Omega 6:3 ratio of 25:1

I have tried to supplement both B12 and DHA/EPA but i react VERY badly to supplements, i have tried at least three variants of each and they leave me feeling wired with heart palpitations and insomnia. On the advice of a nutritionist three months ago i cut right back on cooking with oils and started to consume AT LEAST two heaped spoonfuls of flax/chia seeds EVERY day, but i just got my Omega test back again and my ratio is actually slightly higher than it was, now 25:1. My ALA score had increased slightly, but my DHA/EPA scores had continued to decrease.

NB My Omega 6 score is PERFECT so my nutritionist agrees that it does not make sense to try and cut that back even more in a futile attempt to balance the ratio, even if i were to reduce the ratio slightly that way i would still be deficient in DHA/EPA because on my vegan diet i am not consuming any foods that contain DHA/EPA. I had hoped my body would convert ALA into the necessary DHA/EPA but in both my case and my wife's case who has the same 25:1 ratio, our bodies are not converting ALA adequately. FYI my wife and i even bothered to get genetic tests done to see if we had a genetic mutation that was causing the low conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA but there was no such mutation. I have also since read a lot of research that confirms the conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA is indeed minimal, which is why many leading vegan doctors and nutritionists including Dr Greger do say that vegans need to supplement with DHA/EPA.

Given that i am genuinely unable to supplement i see no choice but to look for a cruelty free source of DHA/EPA. The best option i can come up with would be rescuing some chickens and keeping them in my garden as pets. Eggs are a good source of B12, DHA/EPA, Vitamin D, Selenium, Iodine etc. which should deal with my deficiencies.

I am really gutted to have to do this, as i am proud to consider myself a vegan, but at the same time i am not prepared to live with known deficiencies when i am already suffering with ill health. DHA/EPA have important to roles to play in both brain and heart health.

Sorry if this sounds a bit dramatic, but it is a real dilemma for me.

Appreciate your thoughts...
Hi, I'm not sure if you're looking for permission to eat eggs, or looking for a way to get your 3/6 levels right.

Do you have a history of an eating disorder, is that why they tested the dha omega levels? It's not a common test done.

Personally, I would rather take supplements and give them to my children than eat eggs. It seems far easier to take a pill than to raise chickens.
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#6 Old 05-02-2016, 09:40 AM
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#7 Old 05-02-2016, 01:32 PM
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Thanks for your reply, and no i don't have a history of an eating disorder. My wife and i had both been experiencing fatigue issues after a year on a vegan diet and as our doctor knew we were both on a vegan diet he decided to test our Omega 3 levels and Omega 6:3 ratio and i'm glad he did. After my experience i think all vegans should be doing this routinely. DHA/EPA have very important roles to play in brain and cardiovascular health, of all the different Omega 3's DHA is the only one that is required by every single cell in our body.

Thanks for the link but none of those vegan sources of Omega 3 listed contain any DHA or EPA (except Seaweed which is insufficient unless converted into supplemental form) and the conversion rate from ALA is believed to only be between 5-12% so as previously mentioned despite us both consuming LITERALLY LOADS of ALA are DHA/EPA scores are VERY low indeed which can cause an array of symptoms and even have wider health implications.

NB as a new member i am not allowed to post links yet but here are several studies citing the limited conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA

Burdge, G.C., and Calder, P.C. Conversion of a-linolenic acid to longer-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in human adults. Reprod. Nutr. Dev. 45: 581-597, 2005.

Burdge, G.C., and Wootton , S.A. Conversion of a-linolenic acid to eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids in young women. Brit. J. Nutr. 88: 411-420, 2002.

Burdge, G.C., et al. Eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids are the principle products of alpha-linolenic acid metabolism inyoung men. Brit. J. Nutr. 88: 355-363, 2002.

Chan. J.K., et al. Effects of dietary alpha-linolenic acid and its ratio to linoleic acid on platelet and plasma fatty acids and thrombogenesis. Lipids. 28: 811-817, 1993.

Emken, E.A., et al . Dietary linolenic acid influences desaturation and acylation of deuterium-labeled linoleic and linolenic acids in young adult males. Biochim. Biophys. Acta. 1213: 277-288, 1994.

Food and Nutrition Board, Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients). A report of the Panel on Macronutrients, Subcommittess on Upper Reference Levels of Nutrients and Interpretation and Uses of Dietary Reference Intakes, and the Standing Committee on the Scientific Evaluation of Dietary Reference Intakes. National Academy Press, Washington , DC , 2002.

Francois, C.A., et al . Supplementing lactating women with flaxseed oil does not increase docosahexaenoic acid in their milk. AJCN. 77: 226-233, 2003.

Gerster, H. Can adults adequately convert a-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) to eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3)? Int. J. Vit. Nutr. Res. 68: 159-173, 1998.

Hussein, N., et al. Long-chain conversion of [13C]linoleic acid and a-linolenic acid in response to marked changes in their dietary intake in men. J. Lipid. Res. 46: 269-280, 2005.

Lamptey, M.S., and Walker, B. L. A possible essential role for dietary linolenic acid in the development of the young rat. J. Nutr. 106(1): 86-93, 1976.

Pawlosky, R. J., et al . Physiological compartmental analysis of alpha-linolenic acid metabolism in adult humans. J. Lipid Res. 42(8):1257-1265, 2001.


As for preferring to give your children a supplement rather than eggs, do you mind if i ask if you actually have children? It's just as i said above if it was just me and i could tolerate them i'd definitely go for the supplements but when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year old child to think of, the idea of giving them supplements which more often than not amount to them consuming thousands of percent more than the daily recommend value, you definitely stop to think. Whilst no one can deny that people have been consuming eggs worldwide for centuries and although they might raise cholesterol if consumed in abundance, i don't think they've been too damaging to the population, where as the research is still to be done on what happens to a child that consumes 2500 of B12 and 1750 of Omega 3 DHA/EPA etc. every week in supplements and I don't know how comfortable i am with using my kids as guinea pigs.

* The widely recommended weekly supplemental B12 dosage for vegans of 2500 mcg amounts to 41667% of the recommended daily value. I just don't know how i feel about putting my kids bodies through that when they could just eat an egg from a chicken in our garden and get all their B12, DHA/EPA needs etc.

I appreciate this is a sensitive subject amongst vegans, but still think it warrants discussion. Genuinely nothing would make me happier than knowing i could get everything i need from a plant based diet, but at the moment it doesn't seem like i can.


Last edited by jhothehornet; 05-02-2016 at 02:18 PM.
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#8 Old 05-02-2016, 01:41 PM
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Someone has just kindly made me aware of the FRESH START FOR HENS non profit UK charity, they have to date saved almost 50,000 hens from cruelty and certain slaughter from within the commercial egg production center by rehoming them with people as pets. Although this is still a huge dilemma for me as a proud vegan, i have to admit it doesn't seem like such a bad thing to do given my circumstances.
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#9 Old 05-02-2016, 03:57 PM
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First off, why would you consider giving kids supplements with such high dosages?


And secondly, B12 isn't absorbed that way. You said-
"* The widely recommended weekly supplemental B12 dosage for vegans of 2500 mcg amounts to 41667% of the recommended daily value. I just don't know how i feel about putting my kids bodies through that when they could just eat an egg from a chicken in our garden and get all their B12, DHA/EPA needs etc."
You only need a tiny amount of B12 if you get it every day. Just things like having cereal with fortified non dairy milk can be enough, if you get it every day. 2500 mcg sounds right for supplemented once a week

As for DHA, EPA Silk has a soymilk fortified with 32 (?) of DHA, Francesco Rinaldi has spaghettie sauce fortified, House Brand tofu has organic tofu with algael DHA
There are chewable supplements as well as liquid DHA specifically for children. Of course also for adults
Ignore the first one, it has gelatin-
* The widely recommended weekly supplemental B12 dosage for vegans of 2500 mcg amounts to 41667% of the recommended daily value. I just don't know how i feel about putting my kids bodies through that when they could just eat an egg from a chicken in our garden and get all their B12, DHA/EPA needs etc.

And why do you think eggs have DHA? they have ALA, like -- plant foods.
I'd give you a link but there are so many to choose from, just search "eggs and DHA"
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#10 Old 05-02-2016, 03:58 PM
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It sounds like you need a better nutritionist
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#11 Old 05-02-2016, 04:04 PM
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#12 Old 05-02-2016, 04:58 PM
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I'm not going to argue that you can/should take supplements (although I take B-12, and calcium/D sometimes); I don't know you and I'm not a doctor/nutritionist.

I wasn't aware that eggs were a good source of fatty acids, though. I think about 20 years ago, one summer (before I started really cutting down on egg and dairy), I got an ongoing hankering for hard boiled eggs. About that time, I had my annual checkup with bloodwork. My cholesterol was higher than it usually was.

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#13 Old 05-02-2016, 05:33 PM
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According to the nutrition information for a large egg, one large egg has about 37.0 mg of omega 3 fatty acids, and 574 mg omega 6 fatty acids. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...products/111/2. Hmm, I don't see how eating eggs is going to tip your balance of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids in the right direction.

As far as B12, I have supplemented about once or twice per week (500 mcg 2x per week on average) for about five years as a vegan. I had my B12 levels checked in March of this year and they came back at 691 pg/mL, very much in the healthy range. I have never supplemented B12 every day, and sometimes have missed entire weeks when canoe camping in the wilderness. There are also plant milks that are fortified with B12 (especially rice milk, soy milk, flax milk and others) that would make it very easy to meet daily B12 needs. Your kids would be well covered drinking two glasses of plant milk each day.

If supplementing is unnatural, think about how our city water is supplemented with fluoride, and dairy milk is fortified with vitamin D, even some eggs nowadays are pumped with extra fortified DHA supplements to make them "healthier". People take vitamins for all sorts of conditions or perceived needs. How natural is any of that? Hardly an argument for consuming animals, which requires intensive resources, contributes greatly to pollution, causes untold suffering, and increases chance of health problems for hens who otherwise would not lay as many eggs if not laying them for someone else.
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#14 Old 05-02-2016, 06:03 PM
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Everything has been said ^^ in the above posts.

Except to answer your question, yes, I have two healthy adult children, and I'm also a nurse who had no qualms giving my kids a vitamin. The drama.
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#15 Old 05-03-2016, 02:23 AM
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Thanks for your all your replies, there seems to be a lot of difference of opinion along with some misinformation although i appreciate you taking the time all the same.

@silva -
- If you take a B12 supplement daily as opposed to weekly Dr Greger and many other leading vegan doctors and nutritionists still suggest 250 mcg a day, that would still amount to almost five thousand times over the recommended daily value.
- One glass of fortified milk amounts to 15% of the recommended daily intake for B12, it says so on the carton, so unless me and my kids are going to have almost a litre day each that's not going to cut it.
- For the reasons i've explained, lack of long term research etc. I'm just saying i don't feel entirely comfortable giving my kids two supplements every day, there are countless recent articles and studies about the dangers of regular and continual supplementation. You must accept it's not entirely natural, for starters the best selling B12 supplement (cyanocobalamin) is entirely synthetic, and that's the only B12 supplement that has research to back it up.
- You are entirely wrong about eggs only containing ALA, eggs of course contain DHA and the amount varies depending on what they are fed, if i were to use the popular chicken feed that contains flax etc. each egg could easily contain 150mg of DHA per egg. Eggs also contain Vitamin B12, Zinc, Iron, Selenium and some other nutrients that vegans can have a hard time getting proper amounts of.
- It's going to be a bit of an experiment but eating 2 x eggs a day along with all the flax/chia i consume should be enough to level out my ratio and more importantly bring my non existent DHA/EPA levels up to a healthy level.
- "It sounds like you need a better nutritionist" i've seen several top nutritionists and they all warned me that vegans have a problem maintaining healthy DHA/EPA levels along with maintaining a healthy Omega 6:3 ratio. I chose to ignore them thinking i could get everything from ALA, but mine and my wife's tests clearly prove otherwise. I've since learnt that even Dr Greger, who is vegan himself, says that the average ratio in vegans is an unhealthy 15:1 in vegan adults and up to 40:1 in vegan children, where as a recent Australian study showed the average vegan adult ratio it to be more like 19:1, far from ideal. It is for this reason Dr Greger insists vegans supplement 250mg a day of DHA/EPA.
- Thank you for sharing that table with me, one of the nutritionists i've seen had already shared something similar with me, i rarely cook using oils but when i do it's coconut oil, but as previously explained my Omega 6 score is PERFECT, it's my DHA/EPA scores that are non existent, because i don't currently consume any.

@Tom
- My cholesterol score is perfect and given that i am still going to refrain from meat, fish, cheese, dairy milk etc. I don't imagine i'm going to be at huge risk of running up my cholesterol score, just for consuming a couple of eggs most days.

@Naturebound
- I've read lots of articles and studies that show the DHA range in eggs to be 50-150 depending on what you feed them. It's going to be a bit of an experiment but eating 2 x eggs a day along with all the flax/chia i consume should be enough to level out my ratio and more importantly bring my non existent DHA/EPA levels up to a healthy level.
- I'm glad your B12 levels are optimal, but one glass of fortified milk amounts to 15% of the recommended daily intake for B12, it says so on the carton, so unless me or my kids are going to consume almost a litre each a day that's not going to cut it. We also as a family have tried to use yeast flakes, not on EVERY meal, but it still hasn't been enough to get mine and my wife's B12 levels over 200, which would suggest a need for an actual B12 food source or supplementation.
- I'm sorry but keeping some chickens in my garden and consuming some of their eggs does not "require intensive resources" or "contribute greatly to pollution", "cause untold suffering" at the end of the day the Dalai Lama who is meant to be the living embodiment of compassion still eats some meat from time to time, so i don't think i should give myself too hard a time for rescuing some hens and eating a few of their eggs from my back garden, whilst still refraining from all meat, fish and dairy etc.

@LedBoots
- Thanks for your reply, we're all entitled to our opinions, but i guess if you're a nurse you are maybe going to be more trusting of pharmaceuticals and supplements. There are however countless articles, research studies, papers on the dangers of the ongoing use of supplements, i've posted some links below but they might now show up as i'm a new member, but you can easily do the research yourself.
- If you can show me any research of a child that supplemented B12 and DHA/EPA for their entire life and didn't run into any problems, i'd be very pleased to see it! As far as i know that research does not exist yet.

Thanks again for your replies, i won't be replying on this subject anymore, as a once strict vegan i appreciate that this is a controversial subject for you all, but you can rest assured if we do decide to go down the route of getting some hens, we will make their remaining days happy ones

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#16 Old 05-03-2016, 03:32 AM
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You're going to have enough rescue hens to lay 8 eggs a day year round for your family? Sounds pretty intense, but you've obviously made up your mind. It's better than eating fish.
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#17 Old 05-03-2016, 04:07 AM
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One thing that might make this thread useful long term would be if people listed their experiences with DHA/EPA and the Omega 6:3 ratio, and where they get their DHA/EPA from? Seaweed? Fortified foods? Supplements? Just an idea.



e.g for me
- Omega 6:3 ratio 25:1
- DHA/EPA levels very low
- Tried to get DHA/EPA from consuming lots of extra flax/chia but due to low conversion rate didn't work, forced to try Marine Algae supplements instead.
- Tried taking 3 different DHA/EPA supplements but experienced noticeable side effects (heart palapatations/insomnia etc.)
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#18 Old 05-03-2016, 04:38 AM
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I think it might be worth noting that B12 supplementation is a good idea for non-vegans too.
About a third of meat eaters have B12 deficiency due to difficulty absorbing it - my partner (non-vegan, eats chicken and fish) has to have quarterly injections.
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#19 Old 05-03-2016, 04:47 AM
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I don't deny that but countless studies have shown that B12 deficiencies are far more common in vegetarians and vegans than the general population, which isn't surprising because we don't consume much, if any. I would post the links but it won't let me as i'm a new member!
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#20 Old 05-03-2016, 09:38 AM
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I keep chickens (and ducks). I currently have 11 chickens (including four roosters) and 12 duck (including 3 drakes).

If you are going to keep chickens for the purpose of producing eggs, keep in mind that egg production will fall off rather dramatically once they are more than two years old, and they will lay only very occasionally starting at about age four. At some point, you're going to be caring for chickens who aren't laying.

My guys cost me about $40 per week in feed. That's with them free ranging during the day, and getting lots of kitchen scraps. Vet care this year so far has been over $1,000. (That's not an extraordinarily high number; I've had years where I would have been really happy to have spent so little on vet care this far into the year.)

You also need shelter that's predator proof and appropriate for the climate. After having had two weasel attacks two years apart, my guys have moved to a newly built house that has a concrete, rather than a wooden floor. That cost about $10,000 to build.

They need to be safely looked into their secure house by dusk in order to not fall victim to predators. (A fenced in area is not at all proof against predators, nor are most of the chicken houses people use - there's a reason that so many chickens are lost to predators.) That means someone has to be home at dusk every day to put them to bed.


Just pointing out that, to be a responsible keeper of fowl, it takes a lot more than what people initially imagine. Money is only a part of that, but the price per egg is remarkably steep if eggs are the reason you're going to keep chickens.
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#21 Old 05-03-2016, 09:46 AM
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@Beautiful Joe really appreciate your detailed reply, thank you. My wife grew up in the countryside and looked after chickens all her life so she knows what's involved, we appreciate it's a big responsibility, but we're just trying to get our DHA/EPA levels where they should be without having to resort to eating fish.

Just out of curiosity do you consume your chickens eggs? If not may i ask what you do to get enough DHA/EPA in your diet?
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#22 Old 05-03-2016, 11:55 AM
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This is a really interesting post. I have never considered any of this and will do a little research. I was doing B12 for a while and ran out. I will need to get some more. It's pretty cool to see how in tune people are about their nutrition. The average person out there eats crap and is completely unaware of what they are putting into their bodies.
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#23 Old 05-03-2016, 12:38 PM
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It seems like you've convinced yourself you need to do this, but I'll leave this article here. It has a list of vegan supplements for DHA/EPA, along with foods and recommended intakes for daily consumption. Silk brand soy milk supplements with 50% DV of B12. As far as poor ALA conversion goes, this article details some recommendations for improving conversion rates. It's from a dietitians magazine that sums up practical applications for the latest nutrition research, so I'd trust it.

Keep in mind a lot of nutrition professionals aren't educated well on veg/veganism. I was lucky that my alma mater had a program that included them in their "special needs" group of nutrition classes.

As someone with a degree in nutrition, I can inform you that supplementing weekly is fine with B12 if you want to. If you make your own nondairy milk you can always use powdered B12. 1/4 tsp is enough to supplement a gallon, and you'll still be getting more B12 than you need every day from an 8 oz glass. Been doing it for over 3 years and my B12 levels are perfect, my doc checks every year as part of my physical.
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#24 Old 05-03-2016, 01:21 PM
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The B12 content of an egg is not terribly high. 1 cup of eggs (approximately 5 eggs) only contains 52% RDI of vitamin B12: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...products/111/2 . It looks like you would have to consume 9 or 10 eggs per day to get enough B12.


If you would like to take a lower dose of vitamin B12, you can take lower-dosage pills, but more frequently. 25-100 mcg per day of cyanocobalamin B12 is sufficient: http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/rec . This is an extremely small amount: 0.000025 to 0.0001 gram per day. The other ingredients in B12 pills are typically harmless: sweetener, cellulose, etc.


.
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#25 Old 05-03-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jhothehornet View Post
Given that i am genuinely unable to supplement i see no choice but to look for a cruelty free source of DHA/EPA. The best option i can come up with would be rescuing some chickens and keeping them in my garden as pets. Eggs are a good source of B12, DHA/EPA, Vitamin D, Selenium, Iodine etc. which should deal with my deficiencies.

I
Appreciate your thoughts...



Eggs aren't really a good source of vitamin D, either. One cup of eggs (approximately 5 eggs) only contains 21% RDI of vitamin D. You would have to eat 20+ eggs per day to meet current recommendations. Eggs may not be a feasible solution here.
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_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#26 Old 05-03-2016, 02:02 PM
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@David3 thanks for your reply but i'm looking at a box of organic truly free range Daylesford eggs and they say just one of their eggs provides the following, although i'm obviously not looking for eggs to provide my full Vitamin D quota anyway, if it can contribute towards it though then great.

Protein 12.5g
NRV%
Vitamin B12 2.5µg 100%
Vitamin D 1.8µg 36%

Last edited by jhothehornet; 05-03-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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#27 Old 05-03-2016, 02:06 PM
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The B12 content of an egg is not terribly high. 1 cup of eggs (approximately 5 eggs) only contains 52% RDI of vitamin B12: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...products/111/2 . It looks like you would have to consume 9 or 10 eggs per day to get enough B12.

If you would like to take a lower dose of vitamin B12, you can take lower-dosage pills, but more frequently. 25-100 mcg per day of cyanocobalamin B12 is sufficient: http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/rec . This is an extremely small amount: 0.000025 to 0.0001 gram per day. The other ingredients in B12 pills are typically harmless: sweetener, cellulose, etc..
@David3

If i or my children were to take 100mcg of cyanocobalamin a day that would still equate to 4000 times the recommended daily value, i still think even that might be extreme for a small child, with that in mind as i said i'm just not sure about using my children as guinea pigs when there isn't the conclusive research out there about the long term effects of that kind of level of supplementation to put my mind at rest.


Last edited by jhothehornet; 05-03-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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#28 Old 05-03-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliakai View Post
It seems like you've convinced yourself you need to do this, but I'll leave this article here. It has a list of vegan supplements for DHA/EPA, along with foods and recommended intakes for daily consumption. Silk brand soy milk supplements with 50% DV of B12. As far as poor ALA conversion goes, this article details some recommendations for improving conversion rates. It's from a dietitians magazine that sums up practical applications for the latest nutrition research, so I'd trust it.

Keep in mind a lot of nutrition professionals aren't educated well on veg/veganism. I was lucky that my alma mater had a program that included them in their "special needs" group of nutrition classes.

As someone with a degree in nutrition, I can inform you that supplementing weekly is fine with B12 if you want to. If you make your own nondairy milk you can always use powdered B12. 1/4 tsp is enough to supplement a gallon, and you'll still be getting more B12 than you need every day from an 8 oz glass. Been doing it for over 3 years and my B12 levels are perfect, my doc checks every year as part of my physical.
@Aliakai

Thank you for your reply Aliakai my wife and i found it REALLY informative and helpful. We read through both articles about Omega 3 and i have to say they only confirmed our concerns. e.g. The conversion rate of ALA to DHA/EPA is low and can not be relied upon without question, reduced DHA is common in vegans/vegetarians, and no one has been able to confirm whether or not low DHA levels in vegans/vegetarians is going to have long term health consequences or not.

Like i say i personally have already tried three different marine algae based supplements and got noticeable side effects from them, my wife didn't. But putting us to one side for a minute, we just don't feel that comfortable giving our kids a DHA/EPA supplement every day of their lives, when no one can say for sure whether or not vegetarians and vegans should or shouldn't be doing that.

FYI we already only cook using coconut oil and more often than not we don't use any cooking oils at all, and anyway our Omega 6 score came back perfect so i don't think we could be doing any more to help our ratio without either supplementing DHA/EPA or getting DHA/EPA from a food source.

I really hope that there are scientists and researchers out there working on this stuff right now so that the Vegan community can be given a definitive answer on all this in the near future, until then i just don't think i'm going to be happy guessing when it comes to my family's health.
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#29 Old 05-03-2016, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhothehornet View Post
@David3 thanks for your reply but i'm looking at a box of organic truly free range Daylesford eggs and they say just one of their eggs provides the following, although i'm obviously not looking for eggs to provide my full Vitamin D quota anyway, if it can contribute towards it's though then great.

Protein 12.5g
NRV%
Vitamin B12 2.5µg 100%
Vitamin D 1.8µg 36%



Confirmed! https://www.ocado.com/webshop/produc...herCode=&dnr=y


Daylesford eggs are good sources of vitamin B12. The prudent advice is to ensure that you raise your chickens in the same fashion (and with the same feed supplements, if any) so that their eggs have the same nutrition content as those from Daylesford.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#30 Old 05-03-2016, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Confirmed! https://www.ocado.com/webshop/produc...herCode=&dnr=y


Daylesford eggs are good sources of vitamin B12. The prudent advice is to ensure that you raise your chickens in the same fashion (and with the same feed supplements, if any) so that their eggs have the same nutrition content as those from Daylesford.
Indeed!
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