VeggieBoards banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Vegan who thinks he needs to start eating eggs

4K views 55 replies 13 participants last post by  silva 
#1 · (Edited)
I would really appreciate your thoughts on this dilemma i am having. I have been vegan for about a year and because of ongoing health issues i have routine blood tests. My recent blood tests showed that i have borderline B12 levels but more importantly a very low Omega 3 rating specifically DHA/EPA, which in turn is causing a very high Omega 6:3 ratio of 25:1 :(

I have tried to supplement both B12 and DHA/EPA but i react VERY badly to supplements, i have tried at least three variants of each and they leave me feeling wired with heart palpitations and insomnia. On the advice of a nutritionist three months ago i cut right back on cooking with oils and started to consume AT LEAST two heaped spoonfuls of flax/chia seeds EVERY day, but i just got my Omega test back again and my ratio is actually slightly higher than it was, now 25:1. My ALA score had increased slightly, but my DHA/EPA scores had continued to decrease.

NB My Omega 6 score is PERFECT so my nutritionist agrees that it does not make sense to try and cut that back even more in a futile attempt to balance the ratio, even if i were to reduce the ratio slightly that way i would still be deficient in DHA/EPA because on my vegan diet i am not consuming any foods that contain DHA/EPA. I had hoped my body would convert ALA into the necessary DHA/EPA but in both my case and my wife's case who has the same 25:1 ratio, our bodies are not converting ALA adequately. FYI my wife and i even bothered to get genetic tests done to see if we had a genetic mutation that was causing the low conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA but there was no such mutation. I have also since read a lot of research that confirms the conversion rate from ALA to DHA/EPA is indeed minimal, which is why many leading vegan doctors and nutritionists including Dr Greger do say that vegans need to supplement with DHA/EPA.

Given that i am genuinely unable to supplement i see no choice but to look for a cruelty free source of DHA/EPA. The best option i can come up with would be rescuing some chickens and keeping them in my garden as pets. Eggs are a good source of B12, DHA/EPA, Vitamin D, Selenium, Iodine etc. which should deal with my deficiencies.

I am really gutted to have to do this, as i am proud to consider myself a vegan, but at the same time i am not prepared to live with known deficiencies when i am already suffering with ill health. DHA/EPA have important to roles to play in both brain and heart health.

Sorry if this sounds a bit dramatic, but it is a real dilemma for me.

Appreciate your thoughts...
 
See less See more
#32 ·
Also, have you just tried capsules or have you tried drops as well? Supplements aren't very well regulated, so although you may have experienced reactions with some algae based supplements, it doesn't mean you will with all of them. There were at least 10 there in the first article, plus Dr. Fuhrman, who you repeatedly cite, has one of his own that he sells in drop form.
 
This post has been deleted
#35 ·
I'd like to see links to Dr Greger giving the advice you state. I can;t find him advising anywhere take adults supplement 250 mcg of b12. His advice is to take 4-7 mcg cynocobalamin, and somewhat more of methyl daily. That's standard.
I also can't find him recommending vegans supplement DHA, but to consume omega 3 from chia, flax, and seaweeds.

And why are you caught up with mega doses of b12 or anything else? There are perfectly good supplements formulated for children, as well as loads of foods.
Silk makes a soy milk with 32mg algael DHA that also has 50% b12 in a cup. House tofu has one that also has 32 mg of algael DHA. There are spaghetti sauces with DHA

This website may shed more light on what's available:
http://www.lifesdha.com/

And please refrain from posting in the vegan section advocating egg consumption
I'm moving this to the General health section
 
#36 ·
And please refrain from posting in the vegan section advocating egg consumption
I'm moving this to the General health section
Thank you for moving it Silva.

No offense @jhothehornet , but it feels like you're trying to find reasons to eat eggs at this point. You've argued all of us down and responded to every well meaning post with "misinformation" or "this confirms my suspicions," despite many of the articles and information leading to opposite conclusions. I honestly think that if you're having problems with conversion you need to get a battery of tests done to find out why, as that definitely isn't normal.

If you want to eat eggs, eat eggs, but if absolutely no advice is going to sway you, then why did you post this in the vegan forum and not General Health to begin with?
 
#37 ·
That test is $131.00! That's only one test- doesn't include the follow up you'd need to check changes, and not covered by insurance (in America at least)

I completely understand when people are new to plant based diets being afraid of not getting what they need from plant sources, but this one really seems bent on eating eggs to begin with. With all the reference sources they still managed to give statements that just aren't right.

I also wonder why they think hens can get DHA from flax if they can't? And how it gets into breastmilk?

I'll admit I worry about it myself, so I get fortified foods, eat chia and flax, and buy supplements like Ovega 3 now and then. The thing is, it's really only available in sea sources and I've never liked fish anyway, nor seaweed-- except for the roasted, salty, seaweed snacks, and I doubt they count for DHA. I wonder....
 
#43 ·
For a vegan story of ill health and how she recovered please check out this blog. She doesn't pull the punches on criticising the vegan community or health care providers - it's eye opening and hopeful.
http://bonzaiaphrodite.com/2013/01/facing-failing-health-on-a-vegan-diet/

I'm a vegetarian with a range of health issues that I've talked about elsewhere. I'm working towards a vegan diet and it's slow but I'm eating more and more vegan as time goes by. I've found both vegetarians and vegans on this site to be (in the majority) informed and supportive.

So I think the advice here has been well meaning and the concerns raised seem perfectly valid to me (I'm a vegetarian for the time being - but am moving more and more towards a vegan diet) - jhothehornet has shot down all the advice and said that eggs are the answer - which is fine but this is the vegan forum (the vegetarian forum might have been more appropriate). We've suggested nutritionists and second opinions which you don't seem keen on.

Health is paramount - no one has suggested that you compromise your health only asked that you consider some other options (I am amazed that you have had all these tests on the NHS - I have to fight to get D levels checked and I have a medical condition that means they should check them as a matter of course). If you react badly to all the supplements out there then yes of course you have to look at changing your diet - but you've not shared what you mean by not tolerating them.
 
#44 · (Edited)
@Shallot

"Shot down"? I've merely politely responded with science based research, what do you want me to do just roll over like a puppy?

"Nutritionists and second opinions" I've already said i've seen multiple nutritionists and doctors, i even went to the lengths of finding a vegan nutritionist, and they've all said that given my results and what i've already tried over the last three months if i can't get what i need from a supplement then i need to get it from a food source. NB i personally paid for this test TWICE! Once three months ago, i then made all the recommended changes, and three months later my score was no better.

"You've not shared what you mean by not tolerating them" - Yes i have, within an hour of taking them my heart begins to race, i get heart palpitations and then i can't sleep that night, insomnia etc. Which i've been told is quite common with Omega 3 supplements and would be a reason to stop taking them.

"The vegetarian forum might have been more appropriate" - As it stands i am a vegan, and if i'd posted my dilemma in the vegetarian forum i'm gonna take a wild guess here but i don't think the vegetarians would have really understood where i was coming from and would have just told me to go ahead and eat the eggs, when the decision isn't as easy as that for me.

Thanks for sharing the article, i can definitely relate to how she was left feeling about the vegan community, but in my defence her problem turned out to be cholesterol and protein both of which can of course be reversed within the realms of the vegan diet, she was sure to eat more protein with every meal etc. Where as in my case without DHA/EPA supplementation (that i can't tolerate) it appears DHA/EPA levels can not be reversed sufficiently.

"A 1999 study (Table 5) of 17 vegetarian men in Australia (15), aged about 26 to 42 years old, showed that four weeks of 3.7 g of ALA per day (the equivalent of about 1.5 teaspoons of flaxseed oil) did not significantly increase the percentages of EPA or DHA in the blood."

"A 2000 study from The Netherlands (20) showed no change in EPA or DHA after 4 weeks of 2.0 g of ALA per day"
 
#46 ·
One last thought, I promise.:)

When using various forums I have often come across this.....and I quote....

"Before you hit the "Submit" button, review what you're about to say:
Is it Kind?
Is it Necessary?
Is it Informative?
Is it True?


Read your words as if someone else were saying them to you. How would you receive them? Would you be offended, hurt or angry? If your post doesn't pass those tests, try again. If you simply can't compose something, let the thread go, and maybe try again later.

Every once in a while, there will be something that you cannot agree with. No one expects there to be a complete meeting of minds on every single topic discussed here. In those cases, we ask for tolerance - not acceptance, but tolerance. The other person is always worthy of respect. If you post, do not attack. Agree to disagree, and let your words be civil and even as kind as possible."

:love:
 
#49 · (Edited)
ENOUGH
ENOUGH
ENOUGH

The OP has stated that he and his wife are experiencing medical / nutrition problems, and that physicians and dietitians have so far been unable to provide a solution that is satisfactory to them.

However, we here at VeggieBoards are LESS qualified than Registered Dietitians. We are less qualified to truly evaluate and examine the people involved, and so we are LESS able to provide the best solution.

For the good for the OP, I call on the moderators to firmly instruct the OP to continue to seek help from qualified nutrition and medical professionals, not from this forum.

Moreover, the thinly-veiled passive-aggression, from both sides, is tiresome. The hostility is palpable, and I suspect that certain individuals are getting off on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leedsveg
#54 ·
I had intended to move this thread to general health a while back and don't know why that didn't happen. It's gone too far for even that, so I'm closing the thread at least for a time for moderators to discuss whether to move to compost or keep it closed.
Eveery one is welcome in all forums and expected to respect the rules of the forum which are clearly written in the quidelines
No posts in the vegetarian forum against eggs or dairy
No mention advocating animal products i the vegan forum
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top