Vegan Husband Decided to Start Fishing - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-28-2016, 08:52 AM
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Unhappy Vegan Husband Decided to Start Fishing

So, when my husband and I first started dating about 7 years ago, I had already been vegan for a few years, and he wasn't vegan. After a short while, once he learned about factory farming and such, he decided to become vegan too, and that's the way we have lived for the last 6 years or so. Last year, however, he got a new job, and he made friends with some men at work who are into hunting/fishing. Since he was worried about trying to fit in at a new job, he wouldn't tell them that he didn't eat meat and joined in their conversations. Now, some months later, he's decided to start eating some animal products (mainly fish, dairy, and eggs), and he has started to fish. I want him to be able to be his own person and have his own interests, and I would never force anything onto him that he didn't want to do, but this really bothers me. I don't understand how someone who was vegan for so long can not only start eating meat but actually kill animals. I tried to have an open conversation with him about it with no judgment because I wanted to understand his point of view, but he just got really defensive. All he told me was that he likes eating fish, and he doesn't think fish can feel pain or suffer (which was news to me!), so that's why he's doing it. I hope this doesn't sound over the top, but I'm having a really difficult time with this. It bothers me that he is okay with killing animals with his own two hands, even if it's "just a fish", because I've always believed him to be the kind of person who shared the viewpoint that animals shouldn't be hurt or killed for people to use. Any suggestions on how to get over my feelings about this? (Please, no comments about how leaving my husband or anything. He's an amazing man who I love very much, and we're never going to leave each other.)
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#2 Old 04-28-2016, 09:49 AM
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I can't even manage to be friends with anyone who enjoys killing, so I don't have any words of wisdom for you.


Many, many years ago, long before I went veg*n, my SO at the time asked if I would mind if he went duck hunting with friends. I told him that I would never tell him that I wouldn't "permit" him to do something, but that his actions would certainly affect my opinion of and feelings for him.
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#3 Old 04-28-2016, 12:33 PM
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Judging from what you have written here; I think that he really wants to fit in with his new, male, friends and perhaps he knows or believes that he couldn't do that if he remained a vegan/vegetarian and didn't join them in certain activities that they enjoyed, how ever repulsive those activities may be.
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#4 Old 04-28-2016, 01:08 PM
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Hopefully it's a phase!

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#5 Old 04-29-2016, 01:12 AM
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I have a friend who goes fishing as well, but throws the live fish back into the lake/river once he freed it off the hook. That could be an option? Ok, the fish gets wounded and it probably does not appreciate the experience, but at least he's not killing it and can still prove his skill with a fishing-pole to his buddies?

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#6 Old 04-29-2016, 06:59 AM
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This is a tough call for me. I have many fond memories of fishing while growing up. If you have ever seen the movie, A River Runs Through It, you may understand why. I did a lot of fishing in the Little Beaver River in Ohio, which is now part of the National Scenic River system. Being outdoors, enjoying the beautiful environment, having to understand the local ecology in order to pick the right lures, etc., all were part of a wonderful growing-up experience.

But now, 35+ years later, my perspectives have changed. Although I became a vegan primarily for the health benefits, I have come to appreciate the ethical and environmental aspects as well. Living a compassionate life is very important to me now. I would not go fishing unless I were starving and had no other options for food.

I recommend you watch this video of a TED Talk given by speaker Brian Kateman:
In it, Kateman introduces the term, "reducetarian" to refer to anyone who is intentionally eating less meat, for whatever reason. Kateman reminds us that not everyone is going to become a vegan, but by becoming a reducetarian one is reducing the suffering of animals and the associated environmental impact by some measurable amount.

Because you love your husband and because he is a great guy in most other areas, I recommend that you start thinking of him as a reducetarian instead of a failed vegan. Focus on the fact that he is not consuming animal products in other areas of his life. Focus on the fact that your family--you as a vegan and he as a reducetarian--are responsible for drastically lowering the amount of animal suffering in this world. Hopefully this is a shift in viewpoint you can live with. Good luck.
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#7 Old 04-29-2016, 09:17 AM
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I have a friend who goes fishing as well, but throws the live fish back into the lake/river once he freed it off the hook. That could be an option? Ok, the fish gets wounded and it probably does not appreciate the experience, but at least he's not killing it and can still prove his skill with a fishing-pole to his buddies?
Catch and release isn't humane either -- the fish can suffer damage from the hook, and pulling them from the water means they can't breathe.

I do agree with others that it sounds like a contributing factor is your husband's desire to fit in. But I do think people need to have some intrinsic motivation to make a change as well. Maybe this has been something he has been thinking about for a while. I think you need to tread carefully here. You know him best, so be thoughtful about when and what you say to him about it. Realize that you can't necessarily change his mind, but you should be able to talk about it. It may take some time to get past the defensiveness. Set boundaries about things that bother you related to this change (consider whether you are ok with him bringing fish home, cooking fish around you, etc).

Unfortunately, there is a lot of stuff in the news about how fish may not feel pain in the same way that we do. Fish actually have fairly complex brains that are similar to our own. To me, it is silly to suggest that they wouldn't feel pain or wouldn't suffer, since fish certainly intelligence and complex behavior. The suggestion that they may not experience pain the same way we do just reveals gaps in our own scientific understanding. http://www.popsci.com/article/scienc...imps-or-people
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#8 Old 04-29-2016, 10:47 AM
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That's how relationships go when you're vegan or vegetarian: One half of the couple is spearheading it, and the other half is going along for the sake of the relationship. Sometimes it catches for real with the one who's going along, but usually it lasts only as long as the relationship, if that. Maybe someday it'll catch on with him for real, but in the meantime it sounds like you can trust him to be honest with you and he can trust you not to punish him for telling the truth.
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#9 Old 04-29-2016, 11:02 AM
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Perhaps your husband doesn't realize how intelligent fish are! They can actually learn to do tricks using positive reinforcement training, just like dogs, cats and other animals considered by most to be of high intelligence! I stumbled across these videos researching mental stimulation for fish as I was considering adopting a few fish since I have a spare aquarium. Maybe if he sees fish doing tricks and responding to PRT he might change his mind that they are ok to kill?


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#10 Old 04-29-2016, 03:37 PM
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I think it would be best to focus entirely on the parts of the relationship that are wonderful. Do your best to completely let go of the vegan topic.


I imagine that it is incredibly disappointing to have believed that your spouse walked the same path as you, only to discover that there is a seemingly stark difference between you. Maybe the difference isn't so large, though - maybe you are still very similar in many ways(?)


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#11 Old 04-29-2016, 04:34 PM
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Are you planning to have children? If so, it's important to discuss whether he will allow your children to be raised as vegetarian / vegan. This can become a serious issue. For instance, if the children have health problems along the way, will your husband (or your in-laws) pressure you to add meat to their diet? If you refuse, you may be faced with pressure from his entire family, and your husband will be stuck in the middle.
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#12 Old 04-29-2016, 04:55 PM
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That's how relationships go when you're vegan or vegetarian: One half of the couple is spearheading it, and the other half is going along for the sake of the relationship. Sometimes it catches for real with the one who's going along, but usually it lasts only as long as the relationship, if that. Maybe someday it'll catch on with him for real, but in the meantime it sounds like you can trust him to be honest with you and he can trust you not to punish him for telling the truth.

A lot of veg*ns seem to find themselves in this situation. It can be hard to find a veg*n partner, depending on where you live. Meetup.com and other free social meet websites have helped a lot, I think.

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Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
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#13 Old 04-29-2016, 06:30 PM
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That's how relationships go when you're vegan or vegetarian: One half of the couple is spearheading it, and the other half is going along for the sake of the relationship. Sometimes it catches for real with the one who's going along, but usually it lasts only as long as the relationship, if that. Maybe someday it'll catch on with him for real, but in the meantime it sounds like you can trust him to be honest with you and he can trust you not to punish him for telling the truth.
These are very wise words, ones worth considering.
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#14 Old 04-29-2016, 07:12 PM
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Ahhh..

He's not just fishing but is eating milk, eggs and meat? He sounds like a mindless conformist. I'm going to be the jerk here and not just question his veganism, but why an adult would suddenly change so severely for new friends, like an adolescent.

I guess it's his business if he wants to be pescetarian, but be careful. ..one of his new friends is an *******, trust me, and pressured him or questioned his masculinity.

I don't have any advice, but I personally see a problem with the reasoning it happened.
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#15 Old 05-02-2016, 08:07 AM
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I agree with Thalassa4 that the problem here is to do with the reasoning or lack thereof for the change and the inability to converse freely with you about it. Getting defensive is not honesty and you pussy-footing around the topic is not good communication.
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#16 Old 05-05-2016, 01:30 AM
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I've kept fish for a long time, honestly it was one of the first meats I ended up giving up for a long time because I couldn't bear to think of killing such wonderful animals. Some of them learn who you are, have preferences for people, have their own personalities, and are fascinating to watch. I couldn't bear to live with someone who kills them for sport personally, but you obviously have a vested interest in him.

I suggest you communicate your feelings about it. I know he's trying to "fit in" and is clearly under the influence of these other guys, but if you show information on the fact that fish can feel pain (there are some great articles out there for this) or keep an aquarium in the house, you might be able to help change his mind. Or, at the very least, ask him not to bring his catch home or eat those things in front of you. Maybe limit it to a "going out" thing?

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#17 Old 05-05-2016, 08:10 AM
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I recommend you watch this video of a TED Talk given by speaker Brian Kateman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJJtRWFL_gw In it, Kateman introduces the term, "reducetarian" to refer to anyone who is intentionally eating less meat, for whatever reason. Kateman reminds us that not everyone is going to become a vegan, but by becoming a reducetarian one is reducing the suffering of animals and the associated environmental impact by some measurable amount.

Because you love your husband and because he is a great guy in most other areas, I recommend that you start thinking of him as a reducetarian instead of a failed vegan. Focus on the fact that he is not consuming animal products in other areas of his life. Focus on the fact that your family--you as a vegan and he as a reducetarian--are responsible for drastically lowering the amount of animal suffering in this world. Hopefully this is a shift in viewpoint you can live with. Good luck.
I just got around to watching the whole thing, what a good talk! I hope the term 'reducetarian' catches on, because I know a few people who care about the issues around eating animal products, but aren't willing or able to completely eliminate it in their diet. At least as reducetarians, they can make an effort to do something real about the issues around eating meat, all the while having control on their own changes. Also, the term unifies us because it highlights the similarities that exist in our goals and actions - to save animals and the environment. My hubby is a reducetarian and he was happy when I told him about that name. Watching this made me feel better about our relationship, too.
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#18 Old 05-06-2016, 04:10 PM
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Sounds like his relationship to his new guy friends might trump his vegan convictions (?)

My vegan daughter married a big time hunter and fisherman. She didn't really object to his activities, but he has stopped hunting and fishing, and is veg*n. She kept eating vegan after they met, and he kinda fell in line over time. They are raising their daughter vegan. (Women have amazing persuasive powers!)

His parents go on a very expensive Canadian hunting / fishing trip every year. Since he met my daughter, he hasn't gone on those trips....to the utter dismay of his parents. When his parents visit, he says that all meals will be meat free. Again, nobody pushed him into this, he decided on his own.

Maybe a frank discussion with your husband will open his eyes? Maybe ask why he changed his behavior, etc.

Good luck.
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#19 Old 05-07-2016, 04:33 PM
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Really... hunting and fishing would be a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't choose to actively marry someone who hunts or fishes and I wouldn't tolerate my husband engaging in that behavior.

I became vegan before we were married, just a few months before our wedding. My husband took awhile to catch on, but he slowly phased things out of his diet. I never nagged him, but he did watch Earthlings and he would listen when I was very passionate about something.

He first removed pigs from his diet, then cows, then chickens, then fish, dairy, and eggs. He was a lacto-ovo pescetarian for two years before decided to become vegan. He's been vegan now for about three months and he's loving it. If he suddenly started hanging out with new people who liked to fish/hunt and decided he wanted to fit in, there'd be something seriously wrong with his character. I mean, we do not support zoos or animal testing or abuse in any way, so if he started expressing interest in actively killing animals, I'd be really disappointed.

The dietary changes I could handle and live with -- after all, I married him knowing good and well that he wasn't not vegan. But the desire to hunt would disturb me. I'm not attracted to those types of people.
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#20 Old 05-08-2016, 09:00 AM
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Some of my favorite people hunt or fish. It's not a type, it cuts across many types. If I loved a fisher or hunter who was respectful of my meatless, eggless and milkless ways, I could roll with the guns and gizzards. Wouldn't eat them or dress them or cook them, but wouldn't torment him about them either. And that guy would be eating mostly a vegan diet if he was with me, unlike if he was on his own for food.
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#21 Old 05-19-2016, 07:07 AM
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I hope I'm not making too many assumptions in this rather long post, but I thought I'd give my impressions. Your husband’s defensiveness may be your biggest problem. It speaks to not only a willingness to erect barriers between you, but usually an unwillingness to face his own truths. Either one of these can destroy whatever relationship you have built. Yet I’m sure he doesn’t recognize those barriers.

I’ve always believed the primary reason people behave the way they do is social pressure. Humans are social animals, so by nature they are conformists. It may help you if he could understand his own urges well enough to have that honest conversation with you. Here is a possible conversation started that just popped into my head:

You: “You know I love you and want you to be happy. I can’t help but wonder - have you been craving fish for the 6 years that you were vegan, but I just never knew it? And now that you are developing friendships with men who fish, you don’t want to suppress that desire anymore? Since being a vegan is very important to me, I hope that at some time you can help me understand what changed that we can’t share this lifestyle now. Our relationship is also very important to me, and I’m afraid that this may become a problem between us if we can’t talk about it.”

Hopefully, at some time he will be able to admit to you and to himself that the desire to catch and eat fish isn’t the motivating factor, but the need to ease the awkward position he finds himself in at his new job. If he can even allude to that in a conversation, latch onto it with both hands! Tell him you TOTALLY get that, and you are absolutely willing to support his need to get along, when his comfort at work depends on it. We all have the need for acceptance, and one of the things that makes him a wonderful husband is his willingness to get along with others.

You might even suggest that you could see yourself “lapsing” from time to time if you had to spend your days at his workplace. Let him know you understand he is juggling competing interests: the need to get along at work, both for his job performance and for his mental sanity, and the desire to maintain your relationship at home. Make him understand that you are there to help - you are not the enemy. Then dream, together, of a different scenario, one where not only his own workplace, but the wider community were all vegan. How easy would it be then to stick to our principles!

(And if the taste of fish is still a craving for him, I hear there are some amazing recipes, and also processed vegan foods, that mimic this taste very well.)

I think what you want to know is, is your husband still really a vegan at heart? Is his belief that fish don’t suffer or feel pain a justification for his actions, or does he really believe that? These are more serious questions, that will have to come later. At first, just sympathize with his work situation, but don’t speak negatively about his new friends either. There are lots of lapsed vegans in the world - your husband is not the first. You need to believe he will come back to it someday, maybe bring a few of his new fishing buddies with him.

Another idea: ask him not to bring his fish home with him. He can give them to his friends, eat fish at their houses, or when you eat out. He can use you as an excuse. Let him put the burden on you (since you don’t have to work with them): “My wife is a committed vegan. I don’t want to hurt her by bringing the fish home.”

Personal confession: my husband and I don’t live together anymore. I am a committed vegan, he a committed omnivore. This and many other issues prevent us from getting along on a daily basis. We did try, for 30 years. We seem to get along better now that we don’t try to share living quarters, but I suspect we never had the kind of enriching relationship that the two of you have. I tried in many different ways to explain veganism to him, but he never wanted to hear me. I suppose I started to shut him out, too, not wanting to hear anymore about how the suffering his lifestyle causes others is not an issue for him - only his personal happiness is. I’d rather live alone than with someone I can’t talk to, except on a superficial level. So I’m 66 years old and starting a new life. Yet I have high hopes for your relationship with your husband.
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#22 Old 05-19-2016, 07:50 PM
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Some of my favorite people hunt or fish. It's not a type, it cuts across many types. If I loved a fisher or hunter who was respectful of my meatless, eggless and milkless ways, I could roll with the guns and gizzards. Wouldn't eat them or dress them or cook them, but wouldn't torment him about them either. And that guy would be eating mostly a vegan diet if he was with me, unlike if he was on his own for food.

I grew up in the South, ironically eating a good amount of vegetables and beans, when I look back on my childhood, we were probably what people now call flexitarians...even my most traditional sister eats cereal for breakfast, peanut butter for lunch, and chicken for dinner. ..she eats meat once a day, or less, and doesn't consume a lot of red meat. I was raised by Depression era, subsistence farming Appalachian people, and even my mom easily started drinking almond-coconut milk and eating veggie burgers. One of my sisters has gone vegan, and the other only drinks raw milk and eats pasture raised eggs.

Seriously, I have higher regard for my cousins who kill and dress their own food by hunting or fishing, than those who participate in factory farm culture. I would get along with a man like that more easily than a "grocery store" meat eater.

But I still have reservations about a veg*n who reverts back due to peer pressure over the age of early 20s.
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#23 Old 05-20-2016, 09:42 AM
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I don’t know why I am so set on cutting this guy a break, but it’s not just the young. Nearly everybody wants to fit into their workplace and form work friendships and get along with their peers. And nobody wants his new work buddies to think his wife calls the shots in his family, especially about personal choices that most people take for granted.

A couple of things to remember with this story: The guy isn’t the vegan of the couple, he’s the vegan’s husband, the one who adapted to her diet soon after they met. Funny she mentioned the seven years, because the first seven years of a relationship is sometimes called the "attraction" phase, and the seven years after that are called the "attachment" phase. Making a big change to please a romantic partner is typical of the beginning of the attraction phase, when you're trying to win someone's love. Now, in the more comfortable and relaxed attachment phase, it's more about being there than about getting there. We're more secure further on because we've learned that we can disagree even on big things without having to break up. So he makes some choices to assure himself he's still his own man instead of some milquetoast who has to cave on freedoms that matter to him.

The other thing is how awkward and socially isolating many people find vegan diets. Most people who try a vegan diet will not succeed, and quite often for this reason. That is most especially true if you’re doing it for someone else, instead of because you threw up watching Earthlings. My partner eats vegan food at home because that's all I cook, and he's lazier than he is particular. Plus he likes the food and how it makes him feel. But none of that makes him a vegetarian, and if he ever becomes one I'll be amazed.
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Last edited by Joan Kennedy; 05-20-2016 at 01:33 PM.
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