Does it annoy you when? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-04-2016, 04:48 AM
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Does it annoy you when?

Does it annoy anyone else when people say they care about the environment/animals but they are not vegan?? For example, I see this girl on Instagram that calls herself a "crazy animal lover", silly me thinks she must be vegan, I scroll through a couple of photos and guess what I find? Meat, meat and more meat. Another example, people that claim to care about the environment because they recycle and take a 10 second shower or whatever but they eat meat. Like no you do NOT care!! And of course, you can't just suggest going vegan without being accused of an extreme vegan Nazi. Argghhhh it just makes me so angry, I feel like my head will explode! Maybe I should just learn to calm down
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#2 Old 03-04-2016, 04:55 AM
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I agree, it's been said before; you can't be a meat eating environmentalist. When I hear celebs talking about climate change or world hunger and they're not vegan - I figure it's just p.r. crap. Just another way for them to get much desired attention.
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#3 Old 03-04-2016, 05:46 AM
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Meat-eating environmentalists exist. Some track their meat so it's local and organic. Some are breeders or hunters. And most of them drastically reduce their meat consumption. When I go out I meet many of those environmentalist omnis, while I "know" only one vegan person (might be some hidden ones). I also meet several vegetarians, who eat cheese and eggs.
Still, those people make a difference. They don't do fast food, processed meats or long travelling ones. And they reduce their intake. So, it is worth not much for animal condition but for environment, they do what they can. Or what they think they can. Not everybody wants to go vegan. Not everybody can, and not everybody is conscious that they can.
The person with the least impact on the environement is the one that was never born. So we make choices, we choose to do what sounds the most possible and least annoying : I chose to get rid of the car but I still eat dairy. And I chose to show my happiness when people tell me they eat less meat than before because they grew concerned.
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#4 Old 03-04-2016, 05:47 AM
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Yes it does. Of course when i say something I get a lecture about how I need protein.
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#5 Old 03-04-2016, 09:57 AM
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Do you use electricity generated by any power plant (e.g., solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear, gas, coal, oil)? If so, you're not an environmentalist.

Ok, I know, that's an exaggeration. Do you know what else is an exaggeration? Assuming omnivores can't be environmentalists.
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#6 Old 03-04-2016, 11:32 AM
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...use-hamburger/
"Most of us are aware that our cars, our coal-generated electric power and even our cement factories adversely affect the environment. Until recently, however, the foods we eat had gotten a pass in the discussion. Yet according to a 2006 report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), our diets and, specifically, the meat in them cause more greenhouse gases carbon dioxide (CO2), methane, nitrous oxide, and the like to spew into the atmosphere than either transportation or industry."
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#7 Old 03-04-2016, 12:39 PM
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Not everything is black-or-white in this world. We cannot live by such harsh definitions. Even veganism has grey areas.

Rachel Carson is often thought of as advancing the global environmental movement, especially with her book Silent Spring. Yet, Rachel Carson was not a vegetarian. Does this mean that Rachel Carson was not an environmentalist?
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#8 Old 03-04-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
Not everything is black-or-white in this world. We cannot live by such harsh definitions. Even veganism has grey areas.

Rachel Carson is often thought of as advancing the global environmental movement, especially with her book Silent Spring. Yet, Rachel Carson was not a vegetarian. Does this mean that Rachel Carson was not an environmentalist?
It means she could have easily been a better environmentalist, easily shrunk her own carbon footprint by eschewing meat eating.

It just annoys the crap out of me when people have conniption fits about SUVs while chomping on a steak.
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#9 Old 03-04-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
It means she could have easily been a better environmentalist, easily shrunk her own carbon footprint by eschewing meat eating.
The person who, among many other things, spurred policy on pesticide use and essentially had DDT banned should be a "better environmentalist"? The same person that inspired a grassroots movement that led to the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency?

No one, on this site or off, can say that Rachel Carson should have been a "better environmentalist", unless they have done more for the environmental movement than her.
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#10 Old 03-04-2016, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
Do you use electricity generated by any power plant (e.g., solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear, gas, coal, oil)? If so, you're not an environmentalist.

Ok, I know, that's an exaggeration. Do you know what else is an exaggeration? Assuming omnivores can't be environmentalists.

Uh, no. These kinds of arguments are about as intelligent as saying you're killing vegetables too, to a vegetarian.

Environmentalists should not eat meat, or eat it VERY sparingly, like in the examples one person gave about people who actually live off the land.

From a scientific perspective, heavy meat eaters and even light meat eaters have a bigger foot print than vegetarians. Period. It's not up for debate.
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#11 Old 03-04-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
The person who, among many other things, spurred policy on pesticide use and essentially had DDT banned should be a "better environmentalist"? The same person that inspired a grassroots movement that led to the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency?

No one, on this site or off, can say that Rachel Carson should have been a "better environmentalist", unless they have done more for the environmental movement than her.
I don't know why you insist on being defensive about this, but everyone who recycles or carries cloth bags isn't necessarily an "environmentalist." Recycling and carrying cloth bags is simply what normal mainstream people should be doing, along with common sense things like not littering.

The word environmentalist actually has more objective value than say "Christian" or "feminist"...there are actually scientific measures to what makes some one a better environmentalist. And not eating meat is one of them.
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#12 Old 03-04-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
It means she could have easily been a better environmentalist, easily shrunk her own carbon footprint by eschewing meat eating.

It just annoys the crap out of me when people have conniption fits about SUVs while chomping on a steak.
Rachel Carson died in 1964. I'm honestly not going to compare her to someone living in 2016, with a wide variety of access to information about the enormous environmental impact meat consumption makes.


But yes, there are objective ways to measure someone's sincerity as an environmentalist. Especially in the 21st century. People who call themselves environmentalists, who aren't even researching environmental science or at least watching documentaries, well...I mean. ..that's absurd.
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#13 Old 03-04-2016, 04:41 PM
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It is frustrating when a person is well-informed. But many are not. Many people do not know of the environmental impact of animal agriculture. They may still buy into nutritional myths that make them think they need meat to be healthy. Never underestimate the ability of the human mind to create justifications to maintain the status quo and outdated ways of thinking.
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#14 Old 03-04-2016, 04:53 PM
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This is a very simple graphic that is easy to understand, but this information can be gleaned from everyone from the United Nations to Pope Francis Laudato Si. There's absolutely no reason anyone should be arguing about the environmental impact of meat in March 2016, unless they are a conspiracy theorist who believes that the UN, scientists, environmentalists, and/or Catholics are a part of the Illuminati.
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#15 Old 03-04-2016, 06:59 PM
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Exactly! All of my friends talk about their "compassion for animals" but still eat meat like crazy! I don't understand how you can love animals but buy into their destruction...
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#16 Old 03-04-2016, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
The person who, among many other things, spurred policy on pesticide use and essentially had DDT banned should be a "better environmentalist"? The same person that inspired a grassroots movement that led to the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency?

No one, on this site or off, can say that Rachel Carson should have been a "better environmentalist", unless they have done more for the environmental movement than her.
I didn't say "should" have been, I said "could" have been.

If she had done everything as she did and also not eaten meat, she would have been a better environmentalist than she was by eating meat.
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#17 Old 03-05-2016, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by annabanana123 View Post
Exactly! All of my friends talk about their "compassion for animals" but still eat meat like crazy! I don't understand how you can love animals but buy into their destruction...
Easy !

First step : being specist, let's start with "no hair no cute"

Second step : hiding the slaughterhouses

Third step : brainwashing throught "health" advices and advertisement

Fourth step :
brainwashing through your brainwashed parents "that be good for you" and your brainwashed friends "come with us get a kebab after the cine !"

LAST STEP :
coming home and cuddling with your extra cute pet !


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#18 Old 03-05-2016, 06:26 AM
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#19 Old 03-05-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
Do you use electricity generated by any power plant (e.g., solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear, gas, coal, oil)? If so, you're not an environmentalist.

Ok, I know, that's an exaggeration. Do you know what else is an exaggeration? Assuming omnivores can't be environmentalists.
Cutting meat from your diet is one of the easiest things you can do and also one of the most environmentally friendly. If people were truly concerned, it would be no problem.
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#20 Old 03-05-2016, 11:52 AM
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I have believed that someone could be an environmentalist and still eat meat (provided the animal flesh was locally-sourced, the animals were either hunted or raised on pasture and not on cultivated crops grown for them to eat). Maybe this was because most environmentalists I met were not vegetarian, let alone vegan.

But caring about animals and still eating meat... I don't see how that works. I've known a number of animals of different species rather well: cats, dogs, rabbits, gerbils, eastern gray squirrels, and one Syrian hamster. Some of them would be commonly thought of as "pets", others as "food", and others... well, I'd have to say they wouldn't be thought of much at all- just not on most people's radar of concerns. I realize that some animals are easier to bond with than others, but I really can't justify the wildly different standards of treatment for "pets" on the one hand and pretty much everybody else on the other.

I even want to see good, nutritious foods developed for carnivorous animal companions which do not depend on the deaths of other animals.
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#21 Old 03-05-2016, 12:54 PM
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"The heavy impact on the environment of meat production was known but the research shows a new scale and scope of damage, particularly for beef. The popular red meat requires 28 times more land to produce than pork or chicken, 11 times more water and results in five times more climate-warming emissions. When compared to staples like potatoes, wheat, and rice, the impact of beef per calorie is even more extreme, requiring 160 times more land and producing 11 times more greenhouse gases.

Agriculture is a significant driver of global warming and causes 15% of all emissions, half of which are from livestock. Furthermore, the huge amounts of grain and water needed to raise cattle is a concern to experts worried about feeding an extra 2 billion people by 2050."
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...more-than-cars
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#22 Old 03-05-2016, 10:10 PM
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What bothers me the most is the hypocrisy involved in people claiming they love animals, yet they're not veg*n. I'm referring to people who have pets, and love them, and take great care of them, and pamper them and treat them like family members. Also people who admire "cute" animals, like lions and giraffes and so on. Yet they're perfectly fine with abusing and inhumanely killing OTHER animals. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

And do note that *I* considered myself a hypocrite, so it's not just a term I throw around at other people. The day I realized how hypocritical I was for claiming to love animals, yet participating in the cruelty of the meat industry, was the day I stopped eating meat. In 1988!
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#23 Old 03-06-2016, 06:44 AM
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Most people are hypocrites without realising, I called myself an animal lover whilst eating meat until I made the connection.

All we can do as vegans is point it out to people who claim to be animals lovers but haven't made the connection.

Last edited by SteveW; 03-07-2016 at 12:23 AM.
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#24 Old 03-06-2016, 08:52 AM
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About Rachel Carson and environmentalism: It totally matters that she lived only until 1964. One thing Michael Pollan has right is that animal agriculture has changed more during the past 50 years than it had in the previous 10,000. I don't know how typical my family was, but I remember in the 1950s and 60s, with usually 6 or 7 of us around the table, my mother would broil one large piece of steak and cut it up into 6 or seven portions. She and my father had portions that would be considered quite small fifty years later, and we kids got very little. And steak was so tough back then that each piece took forever to chew: they weren't being fattened up for months at the feedlots yet, and there weren't as many cattle being raised. And chicken was a luxury, not a fast-food snack. It was much more expensive back then because the mechanical processes for deboning, defeathering and otherwise disassembling had yet to be developed. Chicks also took two or three times longer to grow to market weight than they do now, as the Cornish cross "frankenbird" strain didn't yet exist in the state they would later. The hazard to the environment from eating meat -- especially at the levels people ate meat then -- just wasn't the issue factory farms would make it later.
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#25 Old 03-06-2016, 03:49 PM
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Most people are hypocrites without realising, I called myself an animal lover whilst eating because meat until I made the connection.

All we can do as vegans is point it out to people who claim to be animals lovers but haven't made the connection.
SteveW is correct.

I became veg*n because my daughter got a dog. He's the best dog ever. I realized that all animals have feelings, a soul, etc. That was it.

We take long walks, and I bounce my ideas off on him.

He provides good feedback.

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All animals should be respected & should have the ability to lead a natural & enjoyable life. This means not eating them, or abusing them in any way.
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#26 Old 03-13-2016, 05:52 PM
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SteveW is correct.

I became veg*n because my daughter got a dog. He's the best dog ever. I realized that all animals have feelings, a soul, etc. That was it.

We take long walks, and I bounce my ideas off on him.

He provides good feedback.

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Hi Vegan Dave, I can see the awesome in his expression! So. Adorable. What's his name?
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#27 Old 03-18-2016, 12:45 PM
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Does it annoy anyone else when people say they care about the environment/animals but they are not vegan?? For example, I see this girl on Instagram that calls herself a "crazy animal lover", silly me thinks she must be vegan, I scroll through a couple of photos and guess what I find? Meat, meat and more meat.
I have a classmate and she claims to be so in love with animals and everyone knows she loves animals so much, just because she gets all "awww" when she sees a big dog (for some reason, they don't see me in the same category, even if i truly care about animals, cause I don't make all sorts of sounds when I talk about animals).
So one time our group was eating at a small vegan restaurant (well, it's falafel themed, but they don't use animals products) and she was telling another classmate that if you really love something, you watch videos on Youtube about that and cry (she was talking about animals). So I gathered all my strength to control myself and not call her a freaking hypocrite, cause she's such a big meat eater, she really doesn't give a **** about animals. However, she only likes big dogs (not the small ones, she calls them rats). So where's the big animal lover in that?
Yes, it is annoying and it is frustrating and I try not to say something because I know it's useless. People call themselves animal lovers just because they find a small part of animals cute.
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#28 Old 03-18-2016, 11:16 PM
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I have a classmate and she claims to be so in love with animals and everyone knows she loves animals so much, just because she gets all "awww" when she sees a big dog (for some reason, they don't see me in the same category, even if i truly care about animals, cause I don't make all sorts of sounds when I talk about animals).
So one time our group was eating at a small vegan restaurant (well, it's falafel themed, but they don't use animals products) and she was telling another classmate that if you really love something, you watch videos on Youtube about that and cry (she was talking about animals). So I gathered all my strength to control myself and not call her a freaking hypocrite, cause she's such a big meat eater, she really doesn't give a **** about animals. However, she only likes big dogs (not the small ones, she calls them rats). So where's the big animal lover in that?
Yes, it is annoying and it is frustrating and I try not to say something because I know it's useless. People call themselves animal lovers just because they find a small part of animals cute.
Oh, she likes videos about animals? I have a few about cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks, and sheep that she might be interested in.....
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#29 Old 03-19-2016, 01:37 PM
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Oh, she likes videos about animals? I have a few about cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks, and sheep that she might be interested in.....
Oh, of course she wouldn't be interested. She probably knows this stuff, but you know, cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks and sheep are not considered pets, so why would they be considered living creatures that feel the same way her dog feels (cause she does have a dog)? I think it's only dogs that she likes, the big ones. She hates small ones and cats as well, she also eats meat, so... I really can't see the animal lover.
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#30 Old 03-24-2016, 07:35 PM
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Today I got **** from "friends" because I said "go watch ONE documentary covering the meat industry and then come back to tell me how much you love animals if you keep eating meat".

Am I wrong? How can one watch all that mass murder and abuse and still eat the result of so much pain? It's frustrating!
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