Don't be a junk food vegan: keep a whole food plant based diet - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 333Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 Old 09-24-2015, 07:04 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Gita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mexas
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenault View Post
I'm almost 50 years old, I like my junk food thanks At least it's still vegan and the only person I'm hurting is myself
Not really, Any insurance claims you may make due to a bad diet, will impact your other insurance buyers in your pool if you have insurance. You might be nonchalant about your own health, but think about the mother with a very sick kid who needs treatments his or her entire short life. In essence it is acceptable to think only of yourself. But the principals of what we might consider an enlightened society are those of sharing and so on. I do recognize that many people only think of themselves. It may be a cultural thing, and I celebrate all cultures, so I guess, think only of your own stuff! I celebrate your attitude! While not believing in it.
Gita is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#62 Old 09-24-2015, 08:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Enthios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Malibu CA
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerveggie View Post
What about buying leather and wool? Or personal care products made from animal products?
That is a valuable ideal and so is caring about other animal abuses such as zoos and experimentation etc. It is a good ideal that we should always encourage. Most vegans are conscious of it and do what they can. Even many vegetarians will avoid such associations when they can.
Today there are more and more available alternatives so it is easier. The more we ask for alternatives and encourage and educate people about the importance in utilizing alternatives the better.

When a person makes a change to vegan they are making a big change and it is not easy for some, a percentage fail and some have a hard time at it for quite a while, and to tell them they must buy expensive alternatives or have all this intricate knowledge about certain products and go way out of their way and spend more time than they may be able to... to do all that or they are not vegan is well, wrong and counter-productive. Encourage yes, help with educating it if it helps, yes. I don't see anybody purposely making a choice for a wrong product out of being inconsiderate but I can see people needing equipment especially(work) gloves or moto-riding or hiking boots and buying what they can at the time... to say hey you are not vegan because you did that... and are wearing that equipment to protect you from harm or death, well that may not be right.
There is likely to be only a few vegans who would abuse the ideal. We can encourage but not be forceful-authoritative about it and accomplish more that way probably.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

Enthios is offline  
#63 Old 09-24-2015, 08:56 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Enthios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Malibu CA
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
You know, I can say, "The sun orbits around the earth. Period." as often as I like, and it still doesn't make it so.

I can even stomp my foot while I'm saying it, and it won't make it so.
I'm glad that you figured that out, and thanks for letting us know about your discovery.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

Enthios is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#64 Old 09-24-2015, 09:11 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
I'm glad that you figured that out, and thanks for letting us know about your discovery.
Any time. Maybe you'll figure it out at some point too.
leedsveg, no whey jose and Linky like this.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#65 Old 09-25-2015, 02:28 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gita View Post
Not really, Any insurance claims you may make due to a bad diet, will impact your other insurance buyers in your pool if you have insurance. You might be nonchalant about your own health, but think about the mother with a very sick kid who needs treatments his or her entire short life. In essence it is acceptable to think only of yourself. But the principals of what we might consider an enlightened society are those of sharing and so on. I do recognize that many people only think of themselves. It may be a cultural thing, and I celebrate all cultures, so I guess, think only of your own stuff! I celebrate your attitude! While not believing in it.
Oh please. Eating the occasional biscuit, bag of crisps, or chocolate bar isn't going to impact anyone's health, certainly not that of a hypothetical sick kid. There is a HUGE middle ground between eating a strictly whole foods diet and eating so much junk that you make yourself ill, and it's frankly insulting to insinuate that anyone who isn't obsessive about their dietary choices isn't smart enough to indulge responsibly. It's like lecturing me about the dangers of alcoholism because I had a glass of wine with dinner!
silva, LedBoots, Shallot and 8 others like this.
no whey jose is offline  
#66 Old 09-25-2015, 02:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Naturebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Oh please. Eating the occasional biscuit, bag of crisps, or chocolate bar isn't going to impact anyone's health, certainly not that of a hypothetical sick kid. There is a HUGE middle ground between eating a strictly whole foods diet and eating so much junk that you make yourself ill, and it's frankly insulting to insinuate that anyone who isn't obsessive about their dietary choices isn't smart enough to indulge responsibly. It's like lecturing me about the dangers of alcoholism because I had a glass of wine with dinner!
Exactly!

I would never advocate eating tons of junk food as a vegan, and in fact I have shared many a "whole foods" healthy recipe at work and church and other public venues. But that is not the point of my veganism. It is about far more than food choices. I also think that nagging and nitpicking people about eating the occasional processed vegan food is hurting our movement and driving people away. People think veganism is too restrictive and extreme. If we condemn every food with sugar, gluten, fat, more than one or two ingredients etc as anti vegan how many people do you think are going to flock to the movement? MANY of my friends and family are far more interested when I share that you can now buy vegan mayo almost anywhere or enjoy a chickpea salad sandwich on real bread in place of egg salad than when I discuss the merits of whole plant foods. I had family members go vegan after seeing documentaries of "normal everyday people" practicing ethical veganism. Articles and documentaries of athletic fitness gurus and strict whole foods doctors and so on tends to turn people off because they think that is out of their league and requires too much discipline etc.

I think that most vegans are conscious about their health and care about the health of others on some level. Not all of us however choose to eat "only" a whole foods plant based diet all the time. And interestingly there are a lot more vegans who claim to eat this way than actually do. For example, stuff like nutritional yeast or plant milk could be questionable as far as whether it is a "whole food" you would find in nature, but it is heavily used on Whole Foods plant based blogs and so on.
silva, Shallot, leedsveg and 5 others like this.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naturebound is offline  
#67 Old 09-25-2015, 04:32 AM
Veggie Regular
 
runnerveggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
That is a valuable ideal and so is caring about other animal abuses such as zoos and experimentation etc. It is a good ideal that we should always encourage. Most vegans are conscious of it and do what they can. . . .
There is likely to be only a few vegans who would abuse the ideal. We can encourage but not be forceful-authoritative about it and accomplish more that way probably.
I am all for being inclusive, but if someone is buying non-food animal products without any good reason, that person is not thinking about the impact of their choices. I would challenge the statement that "most vegans" including these "health only vegans" are doing the best they can. If they don't care about animal rights at all and only care about health, they probably aren't trying to do anything about non-food animal products and abuses. Is it "good enough" for someone to eat a vegan diet but own a circus that abuses elephants? What about if they run a backyard puppy mill? These certainly aren't common scenarios, but since vegan diets are a health fad right now, I do think it is accurate to say that many people who eat a vegan diet are not concerned with the ethics of harming animals for human gain.

On the other side of the coin, a vegan who eats fake meats and packaged cookies is not doing any harm to anyone, including most likely themselves. I would challenge anyone who claims vegans shouldn't eat "junk food" to:
1) Quantify exactly what junk food is, and what foods are not junk food. Does it include Boca or Gardein fake meats and Daiya cheese? Oreos? Are processed foods ok as long as they are "organic"? What about tofu? Canned beans? Frozen vegetables?
2) Provide scientific proof that these foods are harmful, including what amount of these foods is proven to be harmful, and what amount could be tolerated without adverse health effects.
runnerveggie is offline  
#68 Old 09-25-2015, 06:04 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Enthios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Malibu CA
Posts: 439
Anybody can eat whatever they wish to and nobody should nit-pic. The idea is to encourage and educate. Caring about helping people with dietary ignorance is along the same lines as helping people with caring about the ignorance of animal abuses. Compassion for people and their state of health is no small thing at all... To help people overcome their bad habits and social programming and learn to attain delicious healthier foods so they can become healthier people. And the thing is that we who are trying also are appreciative of helpful assistance, encouragement, inspiration, knowledge and strengths etc that help us to become better people. We should be conscious of the fact that our choices are relative to how we relate, what we can share, what we can give - whether it helps people or contributes to a unhealthy state of being.
Are you helping people that are diabetic, or heading toward a heart-attack or any number of sicknesses?
And as stated earlier a few times, it is unhealthy states that lead to the utilization of animal products for energy.
About 80% of the value of cattle farming is in the meat so helping people with their consumption choices actually is the main concern when considering animal abuse issues.
It also appears that only ethical vegans are uneducated enough to be vegan only for abuse reasons and still think consumption of animal products is actually healthy so look at what is going on in your group association and do something intelligent to help our society and educate.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

Enthios is offline  
#69 Old 09-25-2015, 07:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Shallot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 437
Well I'm just pleased to see most of us inhabit the middle ground rather than either extreme (Only JUNK 4eva vs Whole foods in burlap sack chic ;-P )

Of course it's great to reap the health benefits of your diet. And I'm very grateful that this diet enables me to live a fuller life - my diet is probably 90% vegan. But I'm also acutely aware that this is not what your average vegan means when they say "I'm a vegan".
Shallot is offline  
#70 Old 09-27-2015, 06:18 AM
Veggie Regular
 
runnerveggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Anybody can eat whatever they wish to and nobody should nit-pic. The idea is to encourage and educate.
I fail to see how saying "don't eat that," as this video does, is not nitpicking, and is encouraging. It is inherently discouraging.
Quote:
Caring about helping people with dietary ignorance is along the same lines as helping people with caring about the ignorance of animal abuses. Compassion for people and their state of health is no small thing at all... To help people overcome their bad habits and social programming and learn to attain delicious healthier foods so they can become healthier people.
As I said, I want to see scientific evidence that anything you claim is a "junk food" is harmful, and I also want to know what quantity of those foods has been proven to be harmful (and what harmful effects do they have).
Quote:
Are you helping people that are diabetic, or heading toward a heart-attack or any number of sicknesses?
Eating fake meats or oreos in moderation will not cause diabetes or a heart attack. People who already have diabetes will need to count the oreos in their carb counting, but could still eat one now and then.
Quote:
It also appears that only ethical vegans are uneducated enough to be vegan only for abuse reasons and still think consumption of animal products is actually healthy so look at what is going on in your group association and do something intelligent to help our society and educate.
There is no scientific evidence that a purely vegan diet is the healthiest diet, and that small amounts of animal products are harmful. To claim that even minuscule amounts of animal products are harmful to your health is just a lie, and I don't support lying.
runnerveggie is offline  
#71 Old 09-27-2015, 06:41 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
That is a valuable ideal and so is caring about other animal abuses such as zoos and experimentation etc. It is a good ideal that we should always encourage. Most vegans are conscious of it and do what they can. Even many vegetarians will avoid such associations when they can.
Today there are more and more available alternatives so it is easier. The more we ask for alternatives and encourage and educate people about the importance in utilizing alternatives the better.

When a person makes a change to vegan they are making a big change and it is not easy for some, a percentage fail and some have a hard time at it for quite a while, and to tell them they must buy expensive alternatives or have all this intricate knowledge about certain products and go way out of their way and spend more time than they may be able to... to do all that or they are not vegan is well, wrong and counter-productive. Encourage yes, help with educating it if it helps, yes. I don't see anybody purposely making a choice for a wrong product out of being inconsiderate but I can see people needing equipment especially(work) gloves or moto-riding or hiking boots and buying what they can at the time... to say hey you are not vegan because you did that... and are wearing that equipment to protect you from harm or death, well that may not be right.
There is likely to be only a few vegans who would abuse the ideal. We can encourage but not be forceful-authoritative about it and accomplish more that way probably.
So then you are wearing leather? Yet feel the need to lecture other vegans about eating fake meats and oreos once in awhile? Hmmmmm
LedBoots is offline  
#72 Old 09-27-2015, 06:46 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gita View Post
Not really, Any insurance claims you may make due to a bad diet, will impact your other insurance buyers in your pool if you have insurance. You might be nonchalant about your own health, but think about the mother with a very sick kid who needs treatments his or her entire short life. In essence it is acceptable to think only of yourself. But the principals of what we might consider an enlightened society are those of sharing and so on. I do recognize that many people only think of themselves. It may be a cultural thing, and I celebrate all cultures, so I guess, think only of your own stuff! I celebrate your attitude! While not believing in it.
Oh come on, now. She is eating healthier than probably 90% of the population, and you're going to guilt her about insurance? And being "nonchalant" about her own health? Rlly?
LedBoots is offline  
#73 Old 09-27-2015, 08:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
It's not particularly healthy to spend time criticizing other people for doing things that don't cause harm to third parties.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#74 Old 09-27-2015, 08:50 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 25
What do you guys think of eating a mix of whole foods with some junk foods? Something like 70% whole foods. If I am going to adjust and stick to this for rest of my life, does this sound healthy or not?
And also what do you guys think of people/celebrities just following the plant-based diet for health but doesn't care about the ethics, are they vegan?
MiNT Berry Crunch is offline  
#75 Old 09-27-2015, 09:06 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Jasminedesi16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 590
I try to eat healthy but I eat junk food. We shouldn't judge other vegans for what they eat. If someone wants to eat cashew ice cream and dandie's marshmallows all day who cares they aren't hurting anyone else. You know what I love vegan noodles. I must eat noodles and other starches a lot. I get told by omni's daily about how unhealthy starches are. That I will get diabetes from them and that they will make me fat, they tell me I need more protein. But I like starches, they fill me up and keep my energy up and it isn't hurting anyone. Maybe I will get diabetes or heart disease from it but we will all die of something eventually.
Jasminedesi16 is offline  
#76 Old 09-27-2015, 01:50 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiNT Berry Crunch View Post
What do you guys think of eating a mix of whole foods with some junk foods? Something like 70% whole foods. If I am going to adjust and stick to this for rest of my life, does this sound healthy or not?
And also what do you guys think of people/celebrities just following the plant-based diet for health but doesn't care about the ethics, are they vegan?
I think that, if people follow a plant based diet, whether it's for health or for whatever other reason, that's great - animal suffering is being reduced, whether it's for health or for compassion reasons.

If those people are still buying and/or wearing leather/silk/wool/fur, they are by definition not vegan. However, I applaud any reduction anyone makes in his/her consumption of animal products, whether it's through Meatless Mondays or a totally plant based diet.

As for healthy whole food/junk food proportions, that's really difficult to generalize, at least partially because one person's whole food may be another person's junk food. For example, today I baked 2 loaves of bread for toasting (half whole wheat, half white flour), 2 loaves of full grain bread (a mix of whole wheat flour, white flour, rye flour, soy flour, vital wheat gluten, oatmeal, sunflower seeds), an apple cake (apples, white flour, oatmeal, flax meal, walnuts, sugar), and two types of seitan ("bacon" and "chicken"). My sister and I will eat all of this quite happily and with clear consciences, and, IMO, they are not unhealthy - none of these contain preservatives or highly processed ingredients. The white flour in the breads and the cake, and the sugar in the cake, are the only (IMO), "junky" ingredients. Other people will have a different opinion.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#77 Old 09-27-2015, 08:30 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
For example, today I baked 2 loaves of bread for toasting (half whole wheat, half white flour), 2 loaves of full grain bread (a mix of whole wheat flour, white flour, rye flour, soy flour, vital wheat gluten, oatmeal, sunflower seeds), an apple cake (apples, white flour, oatmeal, flax meal, walnuts, sugar), and two types of seitan ("bacon" and "chicken"). My sister and I will eat all of this quite happily and with clear consciences, and, IMO, they are not unhealthy - none of these contain preservatives or highly processed ingredients. The white flour in the breads and the cake, and the sugar in the cake, are the only (IMO), "junky" ingredients. Other people will have a different opinion.
I could take that junk food off your hands if you change your mind...
LedBoots and Beautiful Joe like this.
no whey jose is offline  
#78 Old 09-28-2015, 05:01 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Enthios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Malibu CA
Posts: 439
Actually if we were to look at what is going on here, the reality of the situation is that (some) ethical vegans are condemning by saying you are not vegan if you buy animal by-products, even though ethical vegan only constitutes about 20 percent of the animal abuse issues - again cattle as meat is 80% of the value in factory farming. But dietary vegans consisting of the concerns relative to 80% in consumption issues are not condemning anybody if they wish to consume junk food as long as it isn't animal product. Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule. Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

Enthios is offline  
#79 Old 09-28-2015, 05:10 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Actually if we were to look at what is going on here, the reality of the situation is that (some) ethical vegans are condemning by saying you are not vegan if you buy animal by-products, even though ethical vegan only constitutes about 20 percent of the animal abuse issues - again cattle as meat is 80% of the value in factory farming. But dietary vegans consisting of the concerns relative to 80% in consumption issues are not condemning anybody if they wish to consume junk food as long as it isn't animal product. Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule. Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.
????????????????????????????????????????????
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#80 Old 09-28-2015, 08:14 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Actually if we were to look at what is going on here, the reality of the situation is that (some) ethical vegans are condemning by saying you are not vegan if you buy animal by-products, even though ethical vegan only constitutes about 20 percent of the animal abuse issues - again cattle as meat is 80% of the value in factory farming. But dietary vegans consisting of the concerns relative to 80% in consumption issues are not condemning anybody if they wish to consume junk food as long as it isn't animal product. Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule. Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.
Lol wut
leedsveg likes this.
no whey jose is offline  
#81 Old 09-29-2015, 04:38 AM
Veggie Regular
 
runnerveggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule.
Citation please? Vegans make up less than 1% of the population, so if you want to argue about who is contributing 80% or 20% of less than 1%, go for it.

And, if you recall, this thread was about someone telling vegans what they should and shouldn't eat, not "ethical vegans" condemning "dietary vegans."

Quote:
Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.
Way to be inclusive and compassionate.
runnerveggie is offline  
#82 Old 09-29-2015, 11:04 AM
Newbie
 
vegan_glowies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 View Post
"Junk food" is a nice treat, but regardless if it's vegan or omni junk food, the name says it all- it's JUNK. Veganism is touted as healthier, but rarely is it paired with information on what foods to eat to be healthy. All those fake meats have labels like "less fat than a beef burger" or whatever and it indicates it is a healthy option when really it is still a processed food of low nutritional value. Many vegans become sickly and unhealthy because all they eat is junk food and blame veganism, not their personal "take" on it. It's one of the biggest reasons vegans go back to meat.

I think educating people that there IS unhealthy vegan food and if they eat too much they will become unhealthy can only be a positive thing. Then it is up to them what foods they choose to eat, but at least they *know* if they choose processed junk food over fruits and veg they may not reap all the benefits of a healthy plant based diet.
I think you make a good point that vegans who eat only junk food may become sickly or malnourished and their bad health will be blamed on their veganism. There's enough scrutiny on the diet, so I would rather thrive and set a good example showing that you can be healthy on a vegan diet and get all the nutrients you need. If I were to only eat potato chips and fries all the time it would just prove the naysayer's right.
vegan_glowies is offline  
#83 Old 09-29-2015, 12:44 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiNT Berry Crunch View Post
What do you guys think of eating a mix of whole foods with some junk foods? Something like 70% whole foods. If I am going to adjust and stick to this for rest of my life, does this sound healthy or not?
And also what do you guys think of people/celebrities just following the plant-based diet for health but doesn't care about the ethics, are they vegan?
I think eating some "junk"' foods can help many people stick to the vegan diet. Everyone does not want/have time to prepare and eat whole plant based healthy foods every day. Lots of people don't want to give up sugar or white flour or gluten or fake meats or whatever is considered "junk", but are happy to stop eating animals.

I think some celebrities eat vegan foods but still wear leather, fur, etc, so not vegan in life. I like the attention brought to veganism, but hate seeing Beyonce in fur, or Ellen selling leather shoes, or Bill Clinton eating fish "at his doctor's orders."
LedBoots is offline  
#84 Old 09-29-2015, 12:45 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Actually if we were to look at what is going on here, the reality of the situation is that (some) ethical vegans are condemning by saying you are not vegan if you buy animal by-products, even though ethical vegan only constitutes about 20 percent of the animal abuse issues - again cattle as meat is 80% of the value in factory farming. But dietary vegans consisting of the concerns relative to 80% in consumption issues are not condemning anybody if they wish to consume junk food as long as it isn't animal product. Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule. Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.
Got any studies, citations, etc for this rude rant?
LedBoots is offline  
#85 Old 09-29-2015, 03:34 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,946
There is a language disconnect with Enthios, but it sounds as if ethical vegans are looked at as everything BUT diet-which doesnt' make sense.

No one here is saying it's okay to eat all junk food, just that it isn't okay to think a vegan diet is all about health. It doesn't have to be about your health at all.
I get that plant based diets can totally transform health, but 'vegan' doesn't imply that, and shouldn't imply that. Vegan should imply ethics, as in avoiding, and condemning, animal exploitaition. Its the only word for that philosophy/lifestyle
I read reviews of vegan cookbooks where its becoming common to see one star reviews because they include sugars, or oil, or fried foods-- and literally saying it's not vegan!
I love that plant based eating for health is becoming more accepted, of course, but it's separate from being vegan. You're vegan if you don't contribute to animal exploitation-that's it. Why can't people accept the term 'plant based diet'? It fits
And Enthios has always seemed very much ethical so I don't entirely understand the take on this
silva is offline  
#86 Old 09-29-2015, 05:29 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Enthios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Malibu CA
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Actually if we were to look at what is going on here, the reality of the situation is that (some) ethical vegans are condemning by saying you are not vegan if you buy animal by-products, even though ethical vegan only constitutes about 20 percent of the animal abuse issues - again cattle as meat is 80% of the value in factory farming. But dietary vegans consisting of the concerns relative to 80% in consumption issues are not condemning anybody if they wish to consume junk food as long as it isn't animal product. Take note - the lesser more ineffectual 20% ethical vegan stance is trying to put their condemnation rules upon the effectually superior 80% dietary vegan stance. Dietary vegan purpose is doing the majority 80% of the work for vegan purpose but the 20% ethical purpose has members condemning the superior dietary purpose with a made-up off the wall rule that is in actuality an ideal and not an enforceable rule. Stay in your little corner little ethical vegans because the superior dietary vegan work won't and should not be hindered by making an established ideal into an enforceable rule.
A vegan that became vegan for ethical reasons is going to see by-product issues as part of the definition requirement and I can understand that. The main definition accepted most places is that a vegan is someone that eats no meat or dairy. A vegetarian does eat dairy. To say no, that a person is a strict vegetarian or on plant based diet (and then have to explain that definition to everybody constantly) because they may be in the need of a by-product for work, or a sport or hobby etc. is just not right and counter productive. Even if all animal by-products were eliminated meat eating would continue to flourish. But stop meat eating and industry would end. So if people are helping with ending the meat eating that is the idea. Online is the only place I have ever heard this extra requirement added to vegan definition. Vegan construction workers, welders, motorcycle riders etc may not be able to utilize an alternative sometimes for some reason. Who is anybody to say that somebody (say) born and raised vegan is no longer vegan because his or her job (employer) or hobby etc requires an animal by-product?

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

Enthios is offline  
#87 Old 09-29-2015, 08:34 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
A vegan that became vegan for ethical reasons is going to see by-product issues as part of the definition requirement and I can understand that. The main definition accepted most places is that a vegan is someone that eats no meat or dairy. A vegetarian does eat dairy. To say no, that a person is a strict vegetarian or on plant based diet (and then have to explain that definition to everybody constantly) because they may be in the need of a by-product for work, or a sport or hobby etc. is just not right and counter productive. Even if all animal by-products were eliminated meat eating would continue to flourish. But stop meat eating and industry would end. So if people are helping with ending the meat eating that is the idea. Online is the only place I have ever heard this extra requirement added to vegan definition. Vegan construction workers, welders, motorcycle riders etc may not be able to utilize an alternative sometimes for some reason. Who is anybody to say that somebody (say) born and raised vegan is no longer vegan because his or her job (employer) or hobby etc requires an animal by-product?
Nobody is saying that. What we're saying-- and what is fact-- is that veganism is an ethical philosophy which seeks to minimize animal abuse, exploitation, and death. That is the definition of veganism. It has absolutely nothing to do with health or weight loss, and involves diet only insofar as animal agriculture exploits and abuses animals. Someone who doesn't eat meat, dairy, and eggs for their own health, with no concern for animal rights, is a plant-based dieter or a strict vegetarian, not a vegan. I genuinely can't understand why plant-based dieters are so insistent on being called vegan. This is literally the ONLY word we have to describe this lifestyle. There are several perfectly good words to describe plant-based and whole foods diets.
no whey jose is offline  
#88 Old 09-30-2015, 02:04 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Shallot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 437
I realise this thread has got a bit derailed but ...

we all seem to agree that :
1) not eating meat is good
2) eating healthy food is good for you
3) living ethically & responsibly is not something to be derided but should be encouraged (even if we start small)

Now I'm extremely wary of saying that we all should eat whole foods and never stray from the path of dietary excellence because to do so will reflect badly upon the world of veg*ns. For one I'm not sure that it's true. For another doesn't it add an element of stress (and an unrealistic ideal to live up to) to something that should be joyful? Aren't we all on this path because it makes us feel better, happier and more satisfied with the impact we're having on the world at large?

So of course don't put your health at risk by eating rubbish. But I'm pretty sure the odd biscuit or chip isn't going to tip us all over the edge!
Shallot is offline  
#89 Old 09-30-2015, 02:09 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Naturebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
A vegan that became vegan for ethical reasons is going to see by-product issues as part of the definition requirement and I can understand that. The main definition accepted most places is that a vegan is someone that eats no meat or dairy. A vegetarian does eat dairy. To say no, that a person is a strict vegetarian or on plant based diet (and then have to explain that definition to everybody constantly) because they may be in the need of a by-product for work, or a sport or hobby etc. is just not right and counter productive. Even if all animal by-products were eliminated meat eating would continue to flourish. But stop meat eating and industry would end. So if people are helping with ending the meat eating that is the idea. Online is the only place I have ever heard this extra requirement added to vegan definition. Vegan construction workers, welders, motorcycle riders etc may not be able to utilize an alternative sometimes for some reason. Who is anybody to say that somebody (say) born and raised vegan is no longer vegan because his or her job (employer) or hobby etc requires an animal by-product?
Meat is not the only direct exploitation of animals. Animals are hunted, bred and raised specifically for wool, leather, silk, fish oil, ivory, etc. They are also kept as forms of entertainment for circuses and fairs and zoos etc. Some hens are kept solely for their eggs, and there are dairy cows. Even if meat eating went away, it wouldn't erase all of that. Not by a long shot. The idea that animals are on this planet for humans to exploit goes far beyond diet.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naturebound is offline  
#90 Old 09-30-2015, 03:12 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Naturebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,609
I couldn't help but share this photo that has been floating around on social media like Facebook as of late. This is what happens when "vegan" is lumped in as a diet. It tends to get made fun of by the omnis.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vegan Diet.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	11961  
Shallot and no whey jose like this.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naturebound is offline  
Reply

Tags
food , health , junk , processed , Vegan

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off