Don't be a junk food vegan: keep a whole food plant based diet - Page 2 - VeggieBoards

Don't be a junk food vegan: keep a whole food plant based diet

Beautiful Joe
09:04 PM 09-21-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Well I got the definition of strict vegetarian wrong but nothing else, it is the same as vegan.
Only insofar as diet is concerned. Veganism is about a lot more than diet, though, as you can see if you read what I quoted from the Vegan Society's definition earlier. That's the point that both Silva and I have been trying to make.
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Enthios's Avatar Enthios
09:10 PM 09-21-2015
A vegan can be a vegan without caring about animal issues. That is the fact that I am pointing out.
Capstan's Avatar Capstan
09:27 PM 09-21-2015
MOD POST- several of the earlier posts have been removed, for being in violation of our posting rules. A reminder to everyone: personal attacks and name-calling is not allowed. Any further such personal comments will result in this thread being closed, at least temporarily. Let's keep it civil, folks.
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Kiwibird08
09:38 PM 09-21-2015
Here is a link to foods someone newly vegan would probably come across (I may not like PETA, but they do draw a lot of people in to a plant based diet):

http://www.peta.org/living/food/accidentally-vegan/

Many of these products are garbage. I remember lists like this being around even when I went vegetarian and it was very exciting that you could eat all this crap. Yes, the information is out there on how to do vegan healthy but most of the "trusted" sources new vegans use tout junk to entice people in while also promoting veganism as healthier. Faux meat is arguably 'healthier' than real meat in SOME respects but it is undeniably highly processed and is still not a health food. Yet it is portrayed as a health food. It's not that it's not delicious or that it's the worst thing you could possibly eat, but a health food it is not! It's not that people shouldn't be able to make an informed decision about what they eat, it's the confusing messages need to stop. I have personally known numerous people who went vegetarian and vegan over the years who did begin to feel run down and terrible and went back to an omni diet. Yes, other factors played into it, but the primary factor was the way they felt. It was because they were consuming insane amounts of processed junk convenience foods (those faux meats being consumed IN EXCESS being the main culprits). If someone wants to drink Kool-aid, Monster energy drinks and eat doritos and candy all day because those things are all technically vegan, that's their business but IMO going vegan should not be touted as inherently healthier, rather veganism CAN be healthier and heres how.

On the subject of vegans who do it for reasons besides ethics, isn't that called a dietary vegan? Vegan in diet only?

I've heard the term "strict vegetarian" used (mainly by omnis) to describe ova/lacto vegetarians who don't eat fish, as many people assume "regular" vegetarians eat fish for some reason. I have only heard a few vegans use it and that was a very long time ago. This is a confusing term if you ask me (and I would argue very outdated) that has different connotations depending whom you talk to.
Marjoram's Avatar Marjoram
10:10 PM 09-21-2015
I might be mistaken, but I always understood that strict vegetarians don't consume ANY animal meat, dairy or eggs. They don't go as extreme as vegan though on like no leather footwear, honey, animal by-products in cosmetic, clothing etc. Some could say no to fur and leather but don't check labels in details for those sneaky scientific names hiding stuff we don't want, like if their sugar was refined with bone char or natural aroma might be beaver glands etc.
runnerveggie's Avatar runnerveggie
10:27 PM 09-21-2015
I'd like to know what the health reason for avoiding buying leather or wool is. Sadly, though, it is probably true that most people who consider themselves vegan have little to no interest in animal rights. Regardless, these "health vegans" do not get to claim eating healthy as a moral issue.
LedBoots's Avatar LedBoots
01:57 AM 09-22-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
I won't stand for being told I'm not vegan.
Do you wear leather?
Werewolf Girl's Avatar Werewolf Girl
02:04 AM 09-22-2015
I seriously take issue with being told what to do. Reading the original post made me want to inhale a box of cookies out of spite.


Windigo's Avatar Windigo
02:21 AM 09-22-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post
I seriously take issue with being told what to do. Reading the original post made me want to inhale a box of cookies out of spite.

Exactly; being vegan is about being compassionate with animals, not about being healthy or following some kind of diet.

If it was I'd have never turned vegan, as I have enough ED issues in my past to know that would be unhealthy. I eat what I want when I want, I just make sure there's no animals in what I eat.
Naturebound's Avatar Naturebound
03:45 AM 09-22-2015
Can't there be an in between? One who eats mostly a whole foods vegan diet but has an occasional faux meat or other processed vegan food or allows for an occasional dessert? Does it always have to be all or nothing within the realm of a vegan diet?

I enjoy eating a mostly whole foods vegan diet, but it's much more difficult to get my omnivore/mostly vegetarian husband to try my dishes unless I sometimes include a more processed meal here and there. When I made a box of Earth Balance vegan Mac and Cheese one night with lima beans in it, he was all over that lol. He won't touch my almond sweet potato "cheese sauce" though.

I have seen way too many people (including on here) enthusiastically go from a junk food omnivore/vegetarian to embracing a very strict "pure" whole foods vegan diet (cutting out gluten, oil, all sugar etc) only to fail miserably and go back to omnivore or lacto/ovo vegetarian because this way of eating is too restrictive and demanding. It seems to me that the long term successful vegans have been those who are more open minded about food and eat a variety of vegan food. I met a couple at a vegan event a few years ago that have been vegan for over twenty years and they occasionally included stuff like Field Roast or Daiya in their mostly healthy diet, and they were full of energy and vitality and not obsessed with their diet and constantly talking about food and health. There is so much more to life!

I personally get tired of being told how I should eat as a vegan as well. All day every day I still battle tapes in my head from my eating disorder criticizing everything that goes in my mouth and it took me years to get to a healthier place and I fight just to stay there and allow myself to eat. The last thing I need is to bite down on a sandwich (bread...gasp) only to be told how bad bread is, or to make vegan muffins to share at an omnivore event only to be told how horrible I am for "enticing" omnivores with vegan junk food and sugar. One can argue that cooked food is bad, fat is bad, all fruit is bad, gluten is bad, carbs are bad, too much or little protein is bad, and on and on until we are all swimming in confusion and rebellion. The world is becoming so obsessed with "healthy eating" and rules about what is good and bad and all it is doing is creating more disordered eating and confusion. Food isn't even enjoyable anymore when it has to be analyzed down to the last macro/micronutrient before determining if it is ok to eat.
Marjoram's Avatar Marjoram
08:30 AM 09-22-2015
Naturebound I totally agree with you. If someone wants to be a vegan AND embrace a super healthy diet, good for them it's a good decision. But that's not what being vegan is about. You could be a junkfood vegan and be the best activist out there, making a huge difference!

The thing is, more and more people embrace a strict vegetarian lifestyle mainly for health but still call themselves vegans... without being an adherent to the philosophy that defines veganism. In the end they both are heroes for the planet and are worth tons in my heart. But it's normal that vegans tend to be protective of their philosophy, maybe we are a bit scared that the new trend toward a plant base diet would scramble what veganism is, making only the dietary aspects popular. Again, same impact on the planet but actions of compassion might be forgotten a bit? Maybe it's just a crazy scare but it's only human to be protective to what we hold dear.

We do love to see plant base lifestyle becoming more and more popular, new restaurants and food options in groceries makes our choice easier, the more the merrier and the better the planet will be. I would just like to see strict vegetarians BE PROUD of their choice because it's an awesome lifestyle. If they eventually decide to add the ethics and philosophy of veganism in their life then great! But it's not a *lower status* to stay strict vegetarian...

hence why we sometime use the tern VEG*N to include us all in this big family.
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
01:22 PM 09-22-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
There are lots of negative issues related to supporting peoples bad habits including junk food. To encourage better diet is always a good thing. If you have bad habits and are happy with them that is your business but it is not a good thing to consider that we can't or shouldn't strive to do better.
Lots of people eat meat because they don't believe a vegan diet provides enough nutrition necessary for abundant energy and it may not if it consists of lots of junk food.[/QUOTE]

I have made this above point already, so try to absorb the meaning in the fact that a dietary vegan has a whole - whole lot of purpose.
And an ethical vegan can sometimes be (obviously) weak in this specific meaningful position in life. Most health oriented vegans naturally stray from using all animal products even without trying to. It is not an at all a hard thing to do. Maybe for some of you it is hard? I guess I can try to understand??
Most health oriented vegans care tremendously for the animals, but see that dietary change is a learning process and that focus and adherence takes work. A lot of people respond to the health aspects of dietary vegan eating and failure to have the intricate knowledge involved can be a failure to effectively relate to people about some vital purpose and reasons behind vegan consumption. Knowledge that helps people. Because many people just don't care about the animals (obvious - right?) but the knowing and caring about the animals is another aspect, and that has a place, reason and purpose. I definitely don't lack the ability to communicate the plight of animals when the time is calling for such communication. But that doesn't always work, sometimes it does. For me and my over three decades of experience, it is the knowing about the right things to say about the health aspects that gets the most interested listeners. And yes I do know some great points to throw in about the animal conditions. A part of the point here is that dietary and ethical vegan are both important aspects and I am fluent with both... Can you ethical vegans say the same? If not then you have something to learn which could benefit the animals we care about.
I spent many years eating raw and living and working on organic farms and alike communities and situations. The animal product situation was not even an occurring issue, we naturally didn't have much to do with them. No big deal. It is not hard. For me it is not hard at all. ? ? ? But the health aspects of eating good food is a constant learning process still to this day. A failure often leads back to eating poorly and even animal products (does anybody want to pretend that is not a common occurrence?) Having the right dietary knowledge helps.
Like I said I don't have to care about the animals to be vegan. I do, but I (or we) do not have to. For me, the work involved in that (ethical) aspect of being vegan is a much smaller aspect (yet very important) compared to the constant work involved in accomplishing and maintaining a truly healthy diet.
LedBoots's Avatar LedBoots
02:19 PM 09-22-2015
So, @Enthios , do you wear leather?

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leedsveg
03:40 PM 09-22-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post
Food isn't even enjoyable anymore when it has to be analyzed down to the last macro/micronutrient before determining if it is ok to eat.
Well said Naturebound. I think you're referring to the obsessive illness orthoxia.

Lv
Linky's Avatar Linky
05:34 PM 09-22-2015
Yea, no. I'll be a "Junk food" Vegan cause no matter how healthy one eats we all gotta die of something and I'm gonna die with my taste buds happy. My diet is mostly starch based, but I like to have a Vegan donut or some Oreos when I'm in the mood. Besides, if non-Vegans think all Veganism is about sucking off broccoli and staying healthy, very few would be happy to join. By having Vegan Junk food as an option, it makes the change a bit easier, imo.
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
08:57 AM 09-24-2015
Not caring about what we put into our body is a main reason that animal products are accepted as food... the mentality to accept things to consume because it taste good. An idea behind dietary vegan is to help people realize the importance behind not consuming things that are not good for health - and that definitely includes animal products. People can tend to overlook the plight of animals if they enjoy the taste of animals and don't realize they are destroying their health.
I hope you ethical vegans will consider doing more for our vegan fight for helping the animals. And help educate.
biloutre's Avatar biloutre
09:13 AM 09-24-2015
Lol, i'll have my crips and french fries and cookies and oreos and cakes and pizza and (do you want me to go on?)

Stop imposing your diet on others. I've had enough of freelee's brainless followers. She stays fits on consumming an enormous amount of calories because she exercizes like crazy. Every body is different, our needs are different. If i were to eat your 'high carb low fat unlimited calories' bs i would gain weight. Calories in, vs calories out. Simple as that. And veganism has nothing to do with carbs and fats and so on. Enough is enough. Let us be vegan and eat whatever else we please.
LedBoots's Avatar LedBoots
10:31 AM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Not caring about what we put into our body is a main reason that animal products are accepted as food... the mentality to accept things to consume because it taste good. An idea behind dietary vegan is to help people realize the importance behind not consuming things that are not good for health - and that definitely includes animal products. People can tend to overlook the plight of animals if they enjoy the taste of animals and don't realize they are destroying their health.
I hope you ethical vegans will consider doing more for our vegan fight for helping the animals. And help educate.
For over a decade I have been cooking vegan dishes for friends, coworkers, my kids' friends as they grew, the homeless,, and anyone else who came around.

Everyone has different ways of "converting" others to the vegan way. Mine is giving delicious food to people who like it.

Criticizing other vegans for their ways of life is rude, to be honest. If I were a health vegan, I could have all those pretty leather bags and shoes I see in the store. Maybe even fur, who knows. It wouldn't hurt MY health, so yay!
Beautiful Joe
10:45 AM 09-24-2015
Enthios, I notice that you haven't responded to LedBoots' question about leather, although it has been repeated.
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
10:47 AM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Not caring about what we put into our body is a main reason that animal products are accepted as food... the mentality to accept things to consume because it taste good. An idea behind dietary vegan is to help people realize the importance behind not consuming things that are not good for health - and that definitely includes animal products. People can tend to overlook the plight of animals if they enjoy the taste of animals and don't realize they are destroying their health.
I hope you ethical vegans will consider doing more for our vegan fight for helping the animals. And help educate.
This point is neither critical nor denying that healthy food can be delicious. Please read carefully.
Joan Kennedy's Avatar Joan Kennedy
01:40 PM 09-24-2015
I've heard Gary Francione say he thinks not consuming animal products is the baseline, the minimum requirement, for calling oneself vegan. "Strict vegetarian" is a term animal rights vegans came up with to distinguish their practices and beliefs from those of dietary vegans, or "health vegans," who don't usually avoid animal products like leather. Though of course there are quite a few omnivores -- as well as vegetarians -- who abhor the fur trade and wouldn't want to be seen wearing anything killed just for its pelt. I avoided fur on principle long before I stopped eating meat, but continue to use leather long after stepping off dairy and egg products.

Out in the world I never hear the term "strict vegetarian" except to describe vegetarians who never ever ever eat meat or fish. That's what most people mean when they say "strict vegetarian." In other words, a vegetarian who won't make an exception about meat, not even for their fabulous dinner party crab dip, or turkey on Thanksgiving. As if most vegetarians they know are vegetarian "except for every now and then."
mackiesgirl
02:15 PM 09-24-2015
Do you have to be some one that is active in fighting for animal rights by going to marches, demonstrations etc to be a good vegan? Because I have already done that for other causes for many years and intend to continue and don't have time and energy to devote to any new causes. I don't eat any animal products at least knowingly. I try very hard to avoid all animal products every where else but I have recently found that I have to look for some new products in the rest of my life. That may not be possible for every thing due to health and financial challenges. I find all this scrutiny of other people's eating habits extremely offensive and divisive. It is not my business what someone else eats or what they call themselves. It smacks of judgement and we get enough of that out in the world in my opinion.
silva's Avatar silva
03:04 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
Not caring about what we put into our body is a main reason that animal products are accepted as food... the mentality to accept things to consume because it taste good. An idea behind dietary vegan is to help people realize the importance behind not consuming things that are not good for health - and that definitely includes animal products. People can tend to overlook the plight of animals if they enjoy the taste of animals and don't realize they are destroying their health.
I hope you ethical vegans will consider doing more for our vegan fight for helping the animals. And help educate.
And what exactly is a "dietary only vegan"s fight? How do "dietary vegans" help the animals used for leather, cashmere, silk, circuses, petting zoos, carriage rides etc?

It's hardly about not caring about what people eat that funds the meat dairy and egg industry--it's about what people like to eat. What people have been conditioned to eat, regardless of health.
You know the most popular, and revisited diet? Atkins low carb, where you can eat lots of meat, but few veggies and almost no fruit. Ever hear of the Paleo diet? Again, hasn't even been around that long and gaining more popularity than vegan.

When I first became vegan my diet was all wholefoods, no processed anything, and more raw than I ever eat now. Everyone snubbed it, dismissed it as extreme, yucky, didn't care if it would let them live longer because eating that crap wouldn;t be worth it. Fast forward a bit- I started eating way more like I did as an omni, and included vegan gravies and sauces, pierogies, white rice and pasta, seitan,, and yes, Gardien, Boca, Daiya and baked goods. Suddenly people took notice and approved, they showed interest, wanted tastes and recipes. I may not have totally converted anyone I know of, but I got people to think differently about food. I had people tell me that they changed recipes they make to use things besides meat and left off the cheese- AND EVERYONE LIKED IT!
Meat isn't necessarily unhealthy at all. You're delusional to think we need to push health on people to change their opinion. It does not.
Healthy eating is not a vegan/omni fight. It's a separate issue.
silva's Avatar silva
03:31 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackiesgirl View Post
Do you have to be some one that is active in fighting for animal rights by going to marches, demonstrations etc to be a good vegan? Because I have already done that for other causes for many years and intend to continue and don't have time and energy to devote to any new causes. I don't eat any animal products at least knowingly. I try very hard to avoid all animal products every where else but I have recently found that I have to look for some new products in the rest of my life. That may not be possible for every thing due to health and financial challenges. I find all this scrutiny of other people's eating habits extremely offensive and divisive. It is not my business what someone else eats or what they call themselves. It smacks of judgement and we get enough of that out in the world in my opinion.
I love that people conciously reduce animal consumption, and normally don't take issue with using the word vegan if they avoid meat dairy and eggs.
It does seem that the plant based, wholefoods diet has totally hijacked the word vegan. I see cookbook reviews given one star because sugar is used, not because it could be filtered through bone, but because "vegans" don't eat ANY type of sugar, --or oil, and that those processed foods aren't really vegan...
I've had too many arguments from people hearing I'm vegan telling me their parents doctor suggested a vegan diet--so they try not to eat meat or dairy, but can still have fish and chicken but it be organic. Does their doctor advise against leather, and why would they be going to the circus? But of course non of that matters, the doctor said vegan and you know, he's a doctor

I'd rather people try their best to adhere to the vegan principles and fall short than try to completely derail what vegan means:
From-https://www.vegansociety.com/try-vegan/definition-veganism

Although the vegan diet was defined early on in the Society's beginnings in 1944, it was as late as 1949 before Leslie J Cross pointed out that the society lacked a definition of veganism. He suggested “[t]he principle of the emancipation of animals from exploitation by man”. This is later clarified as “to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection, and by all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man”.

When the society became a registered charity in 1979, the Memorandum and Articles of Association updated the definition of “veganism” as:

"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
To read more on the history of veganism, see here.
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
05:00 PM 09-24-2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

It looks like that the vegan society definition was not the first used definition of vegan nor the commonly used one nor is the most common today although it is used here and there, but was one that had changed for their use themselves and sometimes does or doesn't get used that way.
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
05:11 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
Meat isn't necessarily unhealthy at all. You're delusional to think we need to push health on people to change their opinion. It does not.
The factory farm industry is in place for animal by-products and to abuse animals not mainly for meat? Who is delusional?
Marjoram's Avatar Marjoram
05:20 PM 09-24-2015
ALL vegans agree that veganism is a philosophy of compassion, it doesn't matter how the definition changed, the core is the same and today, as veganism is gaining more supporters, the definition is still about compassion. Like silva said, the health issue is a totally different thing. I'm really tired of the generalization of veganism we see everywhere lately, even though I myself strive for a healthy diet in general.

--- mackiesgirl --- No you don't need to be an activist to be vegan. Your own actions by refusing animal exploitation in all it's form is what make you vegan. Lots still try to educate gently when given the opportunity, but no one has to.

Some like me don't pass any flyers but try to help in other ways. I catch, neuter and find homes for stray and abandoned cats. Others will keep an eye out for animal cruelty around their home etc. others just follow the philosophy and it's also ok!
Enthios's Avatar Enthios
05:56 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjoram View Post
ALL vegans agree that veganism is a philosophy of compassion, it doesn't matter how the definition changed, the core is the same and today, as veganism is gaining more supporters, the definition is still about compassion. Like silva said, the health issue is a totally different thing. I'm really tired of the generalization of veganism we see everywhere lately, even though I myself strive for a healthy diet in general.

--- mackiesgirl --- No you don't need to be an activist to be vegan. Your own actions by refusing animal exploitation in all it's form is what make you vegan. Lots still try to educate gently when given the opportunity, but no one has to.

Some like me don't pass any flyers but try to help in other ways. I catch, neuter and find homes for stray and abandoned cats. Others will keep an eye out for animal cruelty around their home etc. others just follow the philosophy and it's also ok!
A vegan is a vegan if they don't eat animal products. Period.
runnerveggie's Avatar runnerveggie
07:45 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
A vegan is a vegan if they don't eat animal products. Period.
What about buying leather and wool? Or personal care products made from animal products?
Beautiful Joe
07:51 PM 09-24-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthios View Post
A vegan is a vegan if they don't eat animal products. Period.
You know, I can say, "The sun orbits around the earth. Period." as often as I like, and it still doesn't make it so.

I can even stomp my foot while I'm saying it, and it won't make it so.
Tags: food , health , junk , processed , Vegan

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