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#61 Old 09-09-2015, 07:39 PM
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I see what you mean

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Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
I don't think a "program" is necessary; just eat a variety of vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts. Oils, salt, even white flour/rice and sugars aren't bad if one eats them in moderation (and a decent amount of oil/fat is actually essential).

IOW, one just needs to use common sense and eat in a way that is both enjoyable and sustainable in the long term, rather than hopping from one kind of fad diet to another.

Food has become a lot like fashion, unfortunately; people feel the need to eat/wear whatever is "in" at the moment, and a "diet", just like an item of clothing, isn't acceptable unless it bears a certain label.
Well, if you don't like programs, don't come!
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#62 Old 09-10-2015, 02:57 AM
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Say, Jose, you don't sound like you've ever been to an AA meeting! Have you? What is the First Step? What is Step One in AA? Does it mention "powerless"?

What is the Third Step? On pg 60 of the AA Big Book, does it say anything about a life run strictly on self will? Does it talk about Playing God? Playing the director? Does it give any insight into the problem that control freaks are likely to have in a marriage? A job? life in general? Is AA only about "Don't Drink"? Or is it a support group for people who need spiritual answers in their lives--whether they are drunk or sober?

Have you worked the Steps? Are you able to apply them to your vegan lifestyle? How many AA meetings have you been to? Have you worked with a sponsor? Have you achieved the promises? Have you realized what it is like to be "happy, joyous and free"?

If you answer is no to any of these questions, then I invite you to check out Vegans Anonymous, for your own good. If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I invite you to check out Vegans Anonymous for the benefit that you could bring to others.

But I'm trying not to be a control freak. You do what you feel is best, okay?
I've been to a great many AA and NA meetings and I've done quite a bit of research on the effectiveness of the program -- which is, essentially, nil. Twelve step programs have an equal to lower rate of rehabilitation than simply quitting one's addiction unaided. This has been well documented. I could link you to some studies and articles if you like.

It is, frankly, dangerous to persuade addicts that they are powerless in the face of addiction. In reality, you are the ONLY person with the power to stop your own drinking. You are not somehow inherently different from "normal" people. You don't get a free pass to do as you please without accepting personal responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Alcoholics Anonymous is a cop out. You know how you quit drinking? You stop drinking. You suck it up and stop. And it's awful. For months, you're miserable. You shake, you sweat, you cry, you scream, you don't get out of bed for days. Then time passes and your life gets more stable, you begin to feel normal, and eventually you come out the other side. That's it. No meetings, no sponsor, no talking at great length about your addiction for years and years. Just get through it and move on with the things in life that actually matter. Addiction is selfish. It makes you the centre of your own universe when you don't need to be. If you get through it, when you get through it, you'll be as embarrassed about this as I am.
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#63 Old 09-10-2015, 04:44 AM
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My husband drank hardcore for 21 years. He did two years in prison due to something stupid he did while intoxicated. He went through countless AA programs, treatment centers etc. He lost his driver's license for five years a long time ago after his fifth DWI. None of that helped him quit drinking and stay quit.

In 1998 he decided he had had enough and he quit drinking, just like that. He has not touched a drop of alcohol since. He also quit smoking in 2007 and has not touched a cigarette since. He has made the most of his life since giving up drinking despite many personal obstacles...rheumatoid arthritis, chronic anemia, and another disease I won't mention that once was considered terminal/fatal. He is not perfect. He lives on a disability income. He eats junk food sometimes. He isn't vegan though he has moved a lot in that direction from my influence and because he eats what I buy and cook. He could always be doing more with his life. All of us could. The point is, addiction no longer rules his life. And no one particular program did the trick for him. He used what he could to sober up. Faith, AA, friends, desire to do other things. and he has moved on.

I also gave up drinking and smoking some years ago. I too utilized AA and other programs. I don't feel I need those anymore. They worked to help me in the beginning and I wouldn't discourage people from trying them (though personally I had the same experience as nowheyhose and got tired of telling the same old drinking stories). I still struggle with an eating disorder, but I don't call my eating disorder an "addiction" or a substitute for alcohol. I have at least come to a point of managing my illness so that it doesn't take me down under, though I have had periodic relapses over the years with ED. I don't separate myself from "normal" people as someone who is flawed either. What is normal anyway? Who is perfect in every way and doesn't deal with their problems in some self destructive way? Some people isolate. Some take anger out on others, even if just swearing or honking their car horn too many times.

I understand that addictions are very powerful, from personal experience and from living with others with addictions. But they are not impossible to overcome. If you allow yourself to be helped, listen to what others have to say without judgment, I imagine it would be a huge step towards positive change.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



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#64 Old 09-12-2015, 03:38 PM
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That is correct

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I've been to a great many AA and NA meetings and I've done quite a bit of research on the effectiveness of the program -- which is, essentially, nil. Twelve step programs have an equal to lower rate of rehabilitation than simply quitting one's addiction unaided. This has been well documented. I could link you to some studies and articles if you like.

It is, frankly, dangerous to persuade addicts that they are powerless in the face of addiction. In reality, you are the ONLY person with the power to stop your own drinking. You are not somehow inherently different from "normal" people. You don't get a free pass to do as you please without accepting personal responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Alcoholics Anonymous is a cop out. You know how you quit drinking? You stop drinking. You suck it up and stop. And it's awful. For months, you're miserable. You shake, you sweat, you cry, you scream, you don't get out of bed for days. Then time passes and your life gets more stable, you begin to feel normal, and eventually you come out the other side. That's it. No meetings, no sponsor, no talking at great length about your addiction for years and years. Just get through it and move on with the things in life that actually matter. Addiction is selfish. It makes you the centre of your own universe when you don't need to be. If you get through it, when you get through it, you'll be as embarrassed about this as I am.
Well, I agree with everything you say, but last night I was reading a book by John Robbins, titled, Live to be 100, and he cited research to show that the people who go to support group meetings once a week, and talk openly about their problems, fears, anger, etc, survive a fatal diagnosis of cancer exactly twice as long and the people who do not go to support group meetings.

I believe this because I feel better when I go to AA and talk and share and hear other people talk and share. It sort of calms me down and I feel less stressed and afraid and angry, etc. I feel better when I go to AA, and I've decided to go back for that reason alone.

I've also decided to start another thread, called Vegans Anonymous, which is patterned along the same lines as AA. But Vegans Anonymous will also have Buddhist Dharma and Sutras in it, and maybe that would help it to be more effective than AA. And I invite you to come...Vegans Anonymous...maybe next week some time I will start the new thread.
Ron M.
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#65 Old 09-12-2015, 03:46 PM
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I like to listen to you talk

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Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post
My husband drank hardcore for 21 years. He did two years in prison due to something stupid he did while intoxicated. He went through countless AA programs, treatment centers etc. He lost his driver's license for five years a long time ago after his fifth DWI. None of that helped him quit drinking and stay quit.

In 1998 he decided he had had enough and he quit drinking, just like that. He has not touched a drop of alcohol since. He also quit smoking in 2007 and has not touched a cigarette since. He has made the most of his life since giving up drinking despite many personal obstacles...rheumatoid arthritis, chronic anemia, and another disease I won't mention that once was considered terminal/fatal. He is not perfect. He lives on a disability income. He eats junk food sometimes. He isn't vegan though he has moved a lot in that direction from my influence and because he eats what I buy and cook. He could always be doing more with his life. All of us could. The point is, addiction no longer rules his life. And no one particular program did the trick for him. He used what he could to sober up. Faith, AA, friends, desire to do other things. and he has moved on.

I also gave up drinking and smoking some years ago. I too utilized AA and other programs. I don't feel I need those anymore. They worked to help me in the beginning and I wouldn't discourage people from trying them (though personally I had the same experience as nowheyhose and got tired of telling the same old drinking stories). I still struggle with an eating disorder, but I don't call my eating disorder an "addiction" or a substitute for alcohol. I have at least come to a point of managing my illness so that it doesn't take me down under, though I have had periodic relapses over the years with ED. I don't separate myself from "normal" people as someone who is flawed either. What is normal anyway? Who is perfect in every way and doesn't deal with their problems in some self destructive way? Some people isolate. Some take anger out on others, even if just swearing or honking their car horn too many times.

I understand that addictions are very powerful, from personal experience and from living with others with addictions. But they are not impossible to overcome. If you allow yourself to be helped, listen to what others have to say without judgment, I imagine it would be a huge step towards positive change.
Well, I've had that experience too! AA did help me to stop for 6 years, but I'm back to drinking now. I'm living in poverty on social security and a small disability check. I'm not perfect: far from it! I'm not even "middle class" or "normal," but it helps me to go to AA because I can talk more openly there.

I'm going back to meetings later this week because I believe it helps me feel better. I'm going to lower my expectations of myself and other people and just lighten up and enjoy the few years I may have left...because it's almost over for me!
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#66 Old 09-12-2015, 03:54 PM
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Well, I agree with everything you say, but last night I was reading a book by John Robbins, titled, Live to be 100, and he cited research to show that the people who go to support group meetings once a week, and talk openly about their problems, fears, anger, etc, survive a fatal diagnosis of cancer exactly twice as long and the people who do not go to support group meetings.

I believe this because I feel better when I go to AA and talk and share and hear other people talk and share. It sort of calms me down and I feel less stressed and afraid and angry, etc. I feel better when I go to AA, and I've decided to go back for that reason alone.

I've also decided to start another thread, called Vegans Anonymous, which is patterned along the same lines as AA. But Vegans Anonymous will also have Buddhist Dharma and Sutras in it, and maybe that would help it to be more effective than AA. And I invite you to come...Vegans Anonymous...maybe next week some time I will start the new thread.
Ron M.
Hey, if you feel that it helps you, then go for it. I wish you luck.
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#67 Old 09-12-2015, 04:28 PM
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Actually, I just want to give those people a piece of my mind!

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Hey, if you feel that it helps you, then go for it. I wish you luck.
Actually, now that I realize that I don't actually "need AA," I can go back there just for fun! Now I can say what I really think!
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#68 Old 09-17-2015, 10:19 AM
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Vegan98036,

I saw your issues with sleep apnea and your cpap. I am not a medical professional but I make equipment to diagnose sleep apnea. The issues you describe sound like your cpap is not helping you. It is not normal to wake up wake up needing to breath if everything is working. When was the last time your sleep was assessed and your cpap set? How old is your mask and hose? They should be replaced every 6 to 12 months and your VA benefits should cover it. Are you using humidity? If it has been a while you may want to ask for a new sleep test.

The surgery can be helpful but only if your blockage is in the location they can fix with surgery. Many patients are not good candidates because of their anatomy.

Metabolic disorders and a relationship to sleep apnea are well documented. This presents an extra challenge as you try to loose weight as you have seen. I think the fruit and greens diet you suggest may very well jump start your weight loss and reset the metabolic imbalance. Hopefully once you have your apnea under control and a better metabolic balance you will be able to eat more variety.

Best of luck
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#69 Old 09-17-2015, 12:07 PM
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Thanks purplerabbit

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Vegan98036,

I saw your issues with sleep apnea and your cpap. I am not a medical professional but I make equipment to diagnose sleep apnea. The issues you describe sound like your cpap is not helping you. It is not normal to wake up wake up needing to breath if everything is working. When was the last time your sleep was assessed and your cpap set? How old is your mask and hose? They should be replaced every 6 to 12 months and your VA benefits should cover it. Are you using humidity? If it has been a while you may want to ask for a new sleep test.

The surgery can be helpful but only if your blockage is in the location they can fix with surgery. Many patients are not good candidates because of their anatomy.

Metabolic disorders and a relationship to sleep apnea are well documented. This presents an extra challenge as you try to loose weight as you have seen. I think the fruit and greens diet you suggest may very well jump start your weight loss and reset the metabolic imbalance. Hopefully once you have your apnea under control and a better metabolic balance you will be able to eat more variety.

Best of luck

It's good to talk with someone who is familiar with sleep apnea! I do feel that my cravings for coffee, sugar and comfort food are caused by my sleep apnea. When I sleep well, I seem to have no trouble staying on a fruit and greens vegan diet. When I don't sleep well I have irresistible cravings for coffee, pastry, and comfort food like pizza and ice cream!


For example, I didn't sleep well last night because


1). I used a humidity setting of 4.5 and condensation built up in part of the hose that was hanging below my head and my machine. The bubbling woke me.


2). I requested large cpap pads under my mask and the V.A. sent medium size. The mask overhung the pads and left leaking, fitting, pressure problems that waked me often.


3). I have an appointment to talk with the Ear, Nose and Throat clinic to discuss a uvulapharangeal resection and removal in December.


4). It sounds as though I need to request an new sleep study for help with many other problems. I'm so sleepy all the time that I can hardly think!


I spend 12 hours trying to get 6-8 hours sleep!


Thank you for this wake-up call. I think I'm going home to try to get some sleep!
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#70 Old 09-17-2015, 02:05 PM
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#71 Old 09-18-2015, 10:19 AM
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Friday, Sep. 18/2015

I had a breakfast today of 8 whole grains; diced watermelon, pluot, cherries, and trail mix; with Almond Milk. I've decided to come back to The Gorilla Diet, and to concentrate on my sleep apnea as the cause of my problems sticking with the diet. And that's about all that has happened so far today.
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#72 Old 09-21-2015, 04:51 AM
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I'm not a doctor, but I doubt eating exclusively leaves would supply you with all of the nutrients you need. If you do decide to do this take a supplement maybe
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#73 Old 09-21-2015, 05:05 AM
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On the other hand, I may actually have to water fast a few days to get my weight loss started! But my point is that I'm willing to let my results determine my diet, rather than continuing to follow the Fuhrman and McDougall plans that haven't actually worked for me for the past two years!


Does that sound sensible? I hear your advice. It sounds reasonable--based on your experience and your metabolism! But I don't do 4 cardio workouts a week! I don't do much of anything, really, but lay around and be retired all day!


Ron
Water fasting is never healthy. Ever.
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#74 Old 09-21-2015, 08:31 AM
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Hi Blackhairedmale,


All mainstream vegan organizations recommend a diet of legumes, whole grains, vegetables, and fruit. No mainstream vegan organization recommends a gorilla-type diet of only vegetables and fruit. That's not to say that a gorilla-type diet can't be healthy.


I recommend posting this question to the "Raw Vegan" portion of this forum.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#75 Old 09-21-2015, 01:00 PM
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Hi Lymo

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I'm not a doctor, but I doubt eating exclusively leaves would supply you with all of the nutrients you need. If you do decide to do this take a supplement maybe


I'm not a doctor either, but I can refer you to one. Dr.Fuhrman.com is a discussion site and support group where Dr. Fuhrmans's books are discussed. Eat to Live, page 73 & 74 discusses the diet of gorillas, and I have plagerized that discussion into The Gorilla Diet.


If you would like to discuss any of Dr. Fuhrman's books or his speeches on YouTube I would be glad to discuss them with you. What I'm trying to do here is to build my own ideas about a diet that would be healthy for me. I'm not selling anything. Don't worry!


Ron
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#76 Old 09-21-2015, 01:02 PM
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Water Fasting

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Water fasting is never healthy. Ever.
Lymo, it sounds as if you and I may not agree on very much. I could refer you to Dr. Fuhrman, M.D. If you want to know the benefits of water fasting, please read Fasting and Dieting for Health, by Dr. Fuhrman, M.D.
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#77 Old 09-21-2015, 01:06 PM
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Welcome!

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I want to hear more concerning the Gorilla diet. A lot more. Details?


Glad to see you here! I've been thinking that no one really is interested in this thread, so I haven't done much with it. However, if you would like to follow it, or participate in a discussion, I would be happy to start one. I'll start today, as soon as I'm finished responding to these posts.


Thanks for your help and support. I could really use it. I'm getting desperate!
Ron
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#78 Old 09-21-2015, 01:10 PM
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Hi Dave,

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Hi Blackhairedmale,


All mainstream vegan organizations recommend a diet of legumes, whole grains, vegetables, and fruit. No mainstream vegan organization recommends a gorilla-type diet of only vegetables and fruit. That's not to say that a gorilla-type diet can't be healthy.


I recommend posting this question to the "Raw Vegan" portion of this forum.

Actually, Dave, I'm more interested in people who want to support my efforts than criticize and change them. I think I already know what I'm doing here. Thanks anyway.


The Gorilla Diet is a desperate, temporary diet, for a desperate, temporary person. I am afraid of dying--soon--from obstructive sleep apnea, and I want to get some results, quickly. I welcome all suggestions.
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#79 Old 09-21-2015, 01:22 PM
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The Gorilla Diet

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I want to hear more concerning the Gorilla diet. A lot more. Details?


I am 71 y/o. I was a homeless alcoholic in January, 2007, so I joined Alcoholics Anonymous and worked that program for 6 years. During 6 years of sobriety, however, I found that AA does not care about anything but alcohol. They will do anything to stop drinking--including eating, drinking and smoking the things that cause cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.... I also wanted to stop drinking, so I followed directions and examples in AA, until I developed obstructive sleep apnea, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, arthritis, acid reflux, diverticulitis, 2 cataracts, macular degeneration, retinal separation, bipolar mood disorder and a touch of dementia.


At that point I realized that the obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (ORCDD's) that I had accumulated in AA--as a result of my program of sobriety--were actually worse than my drinking problem, so I changed my emphasis. I began to value a program to prevent, arrest, and reverse ORCDD's--including alcoholism--rather than simply not drinking. As a result I have begun to concentrate on The Gorilla Diet, because this lifestyle change is not easy for me--and I am dying!


The Gorilla Diet is a desperate attempt to reverse all the 12 or so ORCDD's that would kill me in the next few years, if I don't stop eating, drinking and smoking the things that are causing them and allow my body to reverse them, as follows.
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#80 Old 09-21-2015, 01:42 PM
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Hi Vegan 98036,
I don't mean to criticize, not in any way. Your situation is clearly very serious.


A conventional, low-fat vegan diet, comprised of legumes, whole grains, fruits, and vegetables, is effective for weight loss. One of our members here has lost nearly 100 pounds in 1 year.
Can your physician refer you to a Registered Dietitian? They can work with you and your physician to plan a diet that will get you the weight loss results that you require.
I'm not trying to criticize - I am saying that the "Gorilla Diet" is risky. No mainstream vegan organization recommends it. You require real medical intervention here - please see a Registered Dietitian.
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_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#81 Old 09-21-2015, 01:50 PM
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Facing Reality

Facing Reality and Truth was difficult for me so I had to first have a good drunk, for old-time sake! One more day and night of rolling in the gutter before I decided to let go of my old hobbies and make a complete and permanent change!


So I tied on "a good one" on 9/19/2015.


On 9/20/15 I was so hung over and depressed that I vowed that I could only do a few simple things that whole day:
Step I.A.1). No alcohol, tobacco, illicit drugs or prescription medications;
2). No night clubs, bars, taverns, or casinos;
3). Detach from smokers, drinkers, drug addicts and people dependent upon prescription medications, including members of AA, OA, alanon (who mislead me so badly for so long).


Today is 9/21/15 and I had so much trouble with my obstructive sleep apnea last night that I slept from 10p.m. until 12:30 a.m. and could not get back to sleep the rest of the night.


I now realize that Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is the #1 problem I am facing. That is the thing that will kill me if I am unable to reverse it and get off CPAP therapy. It is also the thing that makes it the hardest for me to follow The Gorilla Diet, because chronic lack of sleep makes me so tired, emotionally uncomfortable and depressed that I crave ice cream, pizza and all the "feel-good" comfort foods that are doing so much damage. So my vow for today is:


I.B.1). No coffee, dairy, tea, sodas or caffeinated energy drinks;
2). No dairy;
3). No sugar, salt, refined carbohydrates or processed foods;
4). Avoid restaurants, coffee shops, bakeries, delis and grocery stores--unless I have a written list of what I am going in there to buy! Then I must do my business and get out of there ASAP.
5). Detach from sugar-freaks and processed food junkies.


I.C.1). It goes without saying that I am also taking a vow completely and permanently as a vegan....
No meat, milk, fish, fowl, eggs, or pork;
No oil of any kind--not a drop! No disguised fats or oils. No hydrogenated oils, trans-fats.
6). Detach from carnivores.


Now, at this point everybody who is not dying from ORCDD's begins to lose interest in The Gorilla Diet, because it is basically demanding that I become some kind of a Buddhist monk! A Clean Person--with no sins and no fun in my life.


But that is better than a nursing home, in my opinion!


I also want to point out that I have not yet sworn off any of the plant-based, whole foods that vegans eat! I'm still eating beans, grains, fruits, veggies, melons, berries, onions, mushrooms...etc.
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#82 Old 09-21-2015, 02:02 PM
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No argument here!

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Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Hi Vegan 98036,
I don't mean to criticize, not in any way. Your situation is clearly very serious.


A conventional, low-fat vegan diet, comprised of legumes, whole grains, fruits, and vegetables, is effective for weight loss. One of our members here has lost nearly 100 pounds in 1 year.
Can your physician refer you to a Registered Dietitian? They can work with you and your physician to plan a diet that will get you the weight loss results that you require.
I'm not trying to criticize - I am saying that the "Gorilla Diet" is risky. No mainstream vegan organization recommends it. You require real medical intervention here - please see a Registered Dietitian.

Thanks, Dave,


Have you read The Gorilla Diet? Please note that I am still eating beans and tortillas! I'm still eating everything you eat! I'm not recommending that you stop eating anything that you are eating!


If you take a look at The Gorilla Diet, you will see that I have only eliminated toxins, poisons, adulterants, additives, and addictive things like coffee, tobacco, drugs, prescription medications, dairy, meat, milk, fish, fowl, eggs, pork....


Please read The Gorilla Diet before you go making assumptions and arguing with me about things that I haven't said--but that you fear that I might say at some time in the future!


Come on, Dave! Read the words on the page! You are apparently playing some kind of tape that runs and re-runs in your own head! I haven't said I don't eat beans.... have I? Where are you getting this stuff? What are you afraid of? You think I might tell people that you are eating something you shouldn't? What are you afraid of? Have I threatened you in some way?


You are not making sense, Dave. Let's talk about The Gorilla Diet. Forget those tapes in your head! Okay, buddy?
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#83 Old 09-21-2015, 02:21 PM
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According to Dr. Joel Fuhrman, M.D, gorillas eat a diet of only leaves and fruit. On page 73 of Eat to Live, Dr. Fuhrman implies that such a diet could also be healthy for humans--except that it would result in a calorie deficiency!

He explains that one (1) pound of greens contains only one hundred (100) calories. For that reason it is therefore not possible for a human to eat enough greens to maintain one's weight!

Well, that sounds like the kind of diet I've been waiting for! Therefore, I have decided to use The Gorilla Diet as the basis of my weight-loss program, in hopes that I could also lower my cholesterol, glucose and blood pressure levels, basically by eating all the salads I could hold. I would simply have to vary the fruits and veggies I put in the salad to round out my nutrition.

To me, this plan sounds like a sure-fire method for losing weight. I could avoid the weakness and tiredness that would occur as a result of the calorie deficiency by simply eating more food! It sounds like the perfect diet!

I may also add exercise, sleep, and social support disciplines to the diet, in order to round out a healthy lifestyle, which could hopefully help me live another 5-10 years.

The only problem, of course, is that it may be more easily said than done--which is my problem with life in general.
This was your original post. I don't see grains or beans here. Probably Dave thought the same as I did.

We are trying to help, but you don't seem too receptive tbh.
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#84 Old 09-21-2015, 07:53 PM
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True. That could be true.

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This was your original post. I don't see grains or beans here. Probably Dave thought the same as I did.

We are trying to help, but you don't seem too receptive tbh.
I'm receptive to help, but I'm a different person than other people. I have sleep apnea, which has caused a hormone imbalance, leptin insensitivity, metabolic irregularities and some other things that make it more difficult, if not impossible for me to lose weight. Some people with sleep apnea have irregularities with sugar metabolism. They could even change convert sugar to fat, rather than muscle.

The only problem I have with being helped is that "normal people" telling me that all I need to do to lose 50 lbs is to become a vegan will not work for me! I tried a low-fat, raw vegan lifestyle on 30 Bananas a Day and gained weight! So now I'm trying this extreme diet, and I'm putting fasting with it, and "normal people" are telling me I'm making a mistake. I prefer to let the results speak for themselves.

D___! I'm out of computer time already! But I do appreciate the feedback, I just hope you don't shoot me down before I even get started getting some results!

Thanks.
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#85 Old 09-21-2015, 08:55 PM
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No wonder you gained weight on 30 banana a day, that's like 3000 calories just for them! you need to exercise a lot to loose weight on that many bananas! I hope you get good results on the Gorilla diet, if it's too extreme, you can always check a calculator to see how much calories you need per day to loose weight on a sedentary lifestyle (if it's your case) and plan your meals accordingly! Tell us how it goes.

"To the world you may be just one person, but to one life you may be the world."

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#86 Old 09-22-2015, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
I'm receptive to help, but I'm a different person than other people. I have sleep apnea, which has caused a hormone imbalance, leptin insensitivity, metabolic irregularities and some other things that make it more difficult, if not impossible for me to lose weight. Some people with sleep apnea have irregularities with sugar metabolism. They could even change convert sugar to fat, rather than muscle.

The only problem I have with being helped is that "normal people" telling me that all I need to do to lose 50 lbs is to become a vegan will not work for me! I tried a low-fat, raw vegan lifestyle on 30 Bananas a Day and gained weight! So now I'm trying this extreme diet, and I'm putting fasting with it, and "normal people" are telling me I'm making a mistake. I prefer to let the results speak for themselves.

D___! I'm out of computer time already! But I do appreciate the feedback, I just hope you don't shoot me down before I even get started getting some results!

Thanks.
But the results so far seem to have been binging on high-calorie animal products because your body is starving. And, worse, breaking your sobriety.

Here's some strong words from this nurse. The alcohol abuse and subsequent nutritional deficiencies over the years likely contributed greatly to most of your current health issues. You can't blame AA for this. These things catch up to us as we age.

If you try to give up seeing everyone (non vegans, etc), give up most foods, and continue to remain sober simultaneously, GUESS which one is going to go by the wayside? The drinking.

You can't reverse 40 years of abusing your body in a few months. What you can do is eat healthy meals regularly, exercise safely daily, sleep as best you can, and never drink alcohol again.

Try to quiet your mind with meditation and reflection. Write down something you are grateful for each morning when you get up. Laugh at yourself, we are all ridiculous in our own ways. Dance in your kitchen.

You aren't different from all of us. You think we haven't had issues and made bad decisions in our lives? Everyone has. As my mom would say, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. But do it in a sustainable way. One you can keep up.
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#87 Old 09-22-2015, 05:01 PM
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I
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
I'm receptive to help, but I'm a different person than other people. I have sleep apnea, which has caused a hormone imbalance, leptin insensitivity, metabolic irregularities and some other things that make it more difficult, if not impossible for me to lose weight. Some people with sleep apnea have irregularities with sugar metabolism. They could even change convert sugar to fat, rather than muscle.

The only problem I have with being helped is that "normal people" telling me that all I need to do to lose 50 lbs is to become a vegan will not work for me! I tried a low-fat, raw vegan lifestyle on 30 Bananas a Day and gained weight! So now I'm trying this extreme diet, and I'm putting fasting with it, and "normal people" are telling me I'm making a mistake. I prefer to let the results speak for themselves.

D___! I'm out of computer time already! But I do appreciate the feedback, I just hope you don't shoot me down before I even get started getting some results!

Thanks.
But the results so far seem to have been binging on high-calorie animal products because your body is starving. And, worse, breaking your sobriety.

Here's some strong words from this nurse. The alcohol abuse and subsequent nutritional deficiencies over the years likely contributed greatly to most of your current health issues. You can't blame AA for this. These things catch up to us as we age.

If you try to give up seeing everyone (non vegans, etc), give up most foods, and continue to remain sober simultaneously, GUESS which one is going to go by the wayside? The drinking.

You can't reverse 40 years of abusing your body in a few months. What you can do is eat healthy meals regularly, exercise safely daily, sleep as best you can, and never drink alcohol again.

Try to quiet your mind with meditation and reflection. Write down something you are grateful for each morning when you get up. Laugh at yourself, we are all ridiculous in our own ways. Dance in your kitchen.

You aren't different from all of us. You think we haven't had issues and made bad decisions in our lives? Everyone has. As my mom would say, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. But do it in a sustainable way. One you can keep up.
I love this! <3 listen to this guy
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#88 Old 09-23-2015, 12:30 PM
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30 Bananas A Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjoram View Post
No wonder you gained weight on 30 banana a day, that's like 3000 calories just for them! you need to exercise a lot to loose weight on that many bananas! I hope you get good results on the Gorilla diet, if it's too extreme, you can always check a calculator to see how much calories you need per day to loose weight on a sedentary lifestyle (if it's your case) and plan your meals accordingly! Tell us how it goes.


Hi Marjoram,


30 Bananas A Day is a very popular low-fat, raw vegan website that says I can eat as much as I want, as long as I only eat raw fruits and veggies. I tried it and found that I can gain weight on fruit! I can gain weight eating as much as I want! I can gain weight eating high-carbohydrate veggies like Winter squash!


I can't exercise because I have sleep apnea. For example, I slept 4 hours last night due to problems with my CPAP. Today I'm so tired I can hardly walk to the library to use the computer. Lack of restful, restorative sleep causes many problems with the body and makes exercise almost impossible. Lack of exercise causes problems of its own. Eating between meals causes problems because the digestive system does not have time to rest and detoxify.


So I say, "I'm not like other people. I'm not normal."


The Gorilla Diet is a Designer Diet of my own making that allows me to eat all the greens I want and still lose weight by regulating the other veggies and fruits I eat.


So thanks for telling me what you young, healthy, normal people do; but I don't think I can do what you do, and I don't think it would work for me...in fact, I know it won't work for me, because I've already tried it.


So I'm sticking with The Gorilla Diet.
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#89 Old 09-23-2015, 12:42 PM
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Posts: 111
Yep! That's been my story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
But the results so far seem to have been binging on high-calorie animal products because your body is starving. And, worse, breaking your sobriety.

Here's some strong words from this nurse. The alcohol abuse and subsequent nutritional deficiencies over the years likely contributed greatly to most of your current health issues. You can't blame AA for this. These things catch up to us as we age.

If you try to give up seeing everyone (non vegans, etc), give up most foods, and continue to remain sober simultaneously, GUESS which one is going to go by the wayside? The drinking.

You can't reverse 40 years of abusing your body in a few months. What you can do is eat healthy meals regularly, exercise safely daily, sleep as best you can, and never drink alcohol again.

Try to quiet your mind with meditation and reflection. Write down something you are grateful for each morning when you get up. Laugh at yourself, we are all ridiculous in our own ways. Dance in your kitchen.

You aren't different from all of us. You think we haven't had issues and made bad decisions in our lives? Everyone has. As my mom would say, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. But do it in a sustainable way. One you can keep up.

I quit AA after 6 years of sobriety because my health problems had become worse than my drinking problems. With 6 years sobriety I couldn't see that worrying about my drinking and taking pills for my health was the right approach--but that was the universal approach in AA--and they didn't talk about anything but alcohol. Everthing else is swept under the rug and ignored. Denial is my word for AA. They deny every problem but alcohol. After 6 year's sobriety I thought that was foolish. Being around people like that did not help my efforts to become vegan or eat a healthy diet, etc. So I quit AA.


When I started addressing my ORCDD's I initially had the problems you noted above, but 2 1/2 years later I'm beginning to get a handle on it. On the other hand, my OSA is progressing to the point that I can't sleep well enough to stay on a diet and exercise program! Restful, restorative sleep is a prerequisite for the energy it takes to live, in fact.
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#90 Old 09-23-2015, 12:45 PM
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I'm taking notes.

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Originally Posted by Lymo View Post
I

I love this! <3 listen to this guy


Got it.
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