The Gorilla Diet - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 46Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 Old 09-05-2015, 02:37 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
...Continued

I walked around the lake from the YMCA to the Aurora Village Transit Center and caught a bus up Hwy 99, hoping to find a place to "have some fun," but all I passed was restaurants, bars, grocery stores--and we now have legal marijuana stores in WA! It seemed like everybody on the bus I was riding was either crazy, violent, or insane, so I got off at a Safeway store & walked inside to wait for the next bus. Unfortunately, I saw some sushi reduced to $3.50 and then labelled for sale at 50% off!

How can you pass up a deal like that, right? Especially, when I've decided to "have some fun" and that "an occasional indulgence is okay"... Then I got back on the next bus and passed up the same sports bars, marajuana bars, restaurants on the way back home. At my stop there was another Safeway store, so I decided to see if they had the same special on "expired sushi." They did, so I spent another $1.75 for a package of stale sushi--but after eating salads and fruits and veggies for two weeks, it tasted pretty good to me! But my real downfall was on the walk home from the bus stop: I passed a fast food restaurant (Taco Something) and stopped for a Mixed Burrito. I should have known it would have cheap ground meat in it, but I ate it anyway.

On 8/20, when I started my diet I weighed 205 lbs. Yesterday morning I weighed 195 lbs. This morning when I woke up I weighed 200 lbs!!! So I went to the bathroom and weighed 197. Then I took a shower and weighed 198!

I don't like yo-yo dieting! I don't like going backwards! My spring-loaded bathroom scale could be erratic, and the one-lb. gradations are too close together for me to accurately read anything but the 5lb gradations--but I think it is safe to say that I had a relapse yesterday!!!

I'm trying to lose 50 lbs in order to reverse obstructive sleep apnea. I don't like two steps forward and one step back! I don't like fiddlefarting around with "half-measures"! I don't like chasing 5 goals at once. What I want to do is to concentrate on getting 50 lbs off and thereby reversing sleep apnea, so I can say goodbye to this CPAP machine and the masks and face pads and humidifiers; and fighting 12 hours to get 6 hours sleep!

I'm thinking that what I will do is to declare a relapse and start another thread, called Vegans Anonymous. I may use some of the thinking about addiction, mental, physical and spiritual illness that is explained in Alcoholics Anonymous and I may rewrite the 12 Steps for my own purposes! But first, since I have declared a relapse, and since I'm not an alcoholic anymore, I may have "a little bit more fun" before I get back on track tomorrow. In order to be sure that I'm ready to start over tomorrow, I've decided to "hit bottom" tonight. On the way home from the library, I'm going to stop by the liquor store and get a bottle of red wine...to finish off this relapse!

Ron
Vegan98036 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 Old 09-05-2015, 03:00 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
I walked around the lake from the YMCA to the Aurora Village Transit Center and caught a bus up Hwy 99, hoping to find a place to "have some fun," but all I passed was restaurants, bars, grocery stores--and we now have legal marijuana stores in WA! It seemed like everybody on the bus I was riding was either crazy, violent, or insane, so I got off at a Safeway store & walked inside to wait for the next bus. Unfortunately, I saw some sushi reduced to $3.50 and then labelled for sale at 50% off!

How can you pass up a deal like that, right? Especially, when I've decided to "have some fun" and that "an occasional indulgence is okay"... Then I got back on the next bus and passed up the same sports bars, marajuana bars, restaurants on the way back home. At my stop there was another Safeway store, so I decided to see if they had the same special on "expired sushi." They did, so I spent another $1.75 for a package of stale sushi--but after eating salads and fruits and veggies for two weeks, it tasted pretty good to me! But my real downfall was on the walk home from the bus stop: I passed a fast food restaurant (Taco Something) and stopped for a Mixed Burrito. I should have known it would have cheap ground meat in it, but I ate it anyway.

On 8/20, when I started my diet I weighed 205 lbs. Yesterday morning I weighed 195 lbs. This morning when I woke up I weighed 200 lbs!!! So I went to the bathroom and weighed 197. Then I took a shower and weighed 198!

I don't like yo-yo dieting! I don't like going backwards! My spring-loaded bathroom scale could be erratic, and the one-lb. gradations are too close together for me to accurately read anything but the 5lb gradations--but I think it is safe to say that I had a relapse yesterday!!!

I'm trying to lose 50 lbs in order to reverse obstructive sleep apnea. I don't like two steps forward and one step back! I don't like fiddlefarting around with "half-measures"! I don't like chasing 5 goals at once. What I want to do is to concentrate on getting 50 lbs off and thereby reversing sleep apnea, so I can say goodbye to this CPAP machine and the masks and face pads and humidifiers; and fighting 12 hours to get 6 hours sleep!

I'm thinking that what I will do is to declare a relapse and start another thread, called Vegans Anonymous. I may use some of the thinking about addiction, mental, physical and spiritual illness that is explained in Alcoholics Anonymous and I may rewrite the 12 Steps for my own purposes! But first, since I have declared a relapse, and since I'm not an alcoholic anymore, I may have "a little bit more fun" before I get back on track tomorrow. In order to be sure that I'm ready to start over tomorrow, I've decided to "hit bottom" tonight. On the way home from the library, I'm going to stop by the liquor store and get a bottle of red wine...to finish off this relapse!

Ron
It's not healthy to weigh yourself that much, and there's nothing wrong with sushi or burritos. Cucumber and avocado sushi and bean burritos can be genuinely high quality foods. If you chose to eat animal products instead, that's a conscious choice that YOU made and you need to take responsibility for that. Do you care about the animals' lives at all, or is this just about you?
no whey jose is offline  
#33 Old 09-06-2015, 04:49 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
This is about me, myself, and I!

Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
It's not healthy to weigh yourself that much, and there's nothing wrong with sushi or burritos. Cucumber and avocado sushi and bean burritos can be genuinely high quality foods. If you chose to eat animal products instead, that's a conscious choice that YOU made and you need to take responsibility for that. Do you care about the animals' lives at all, or is this just about you?
I actually, I'm more concerned about my cholesterol than the cow I ate last night. I suppose I'm not a true vegan. I have ulterior motives.

What about hard apple cider? Am I still vegan if I drank hard apple cider last night? I have quit AA because I don't like all the denial about health there, but I still have that AA "all or nothing" thinking. I still think that if I drank hard apple cider last night, then I'm "no good" today...so I ate 3 pints of ice cream to prove it! Can't understand how I weigh 197 this afternoon! My scale must be erratic. I feel lost. I feel hopeless...so I drank another bottle of hard apple cider. I'm scheduled for a blood test tomorrow. That should be interesting!

I think I'll forget the Vegans Anonymous. That would be a joke!

I feel like the whole world has turned upside down today, for some reason! Maybe I'll just go back to the sports bar and have another apple cider and watch the rest of the Seahawks game.

Sushi is made with white rice, incidentally. White rice spikes the blood sugar. It's the same as sugar! You didn't know that?
Vegan98036 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#34 Old 09-06-2015, 06:14 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
Ron, you obviously have a need to cathart and get things out of yourself and you ended up here in your quest for help. Perhaps this is one of the beautiful things about some internet forums as it becomes a viable means of self help. We all have issues and some of us struggle more than others. You have some very good basic desires to improve yourself and you sound like a fighter. I'm a little younger than you (65) and this has been a new lifestyle change for me too (6 months). You will have temporary defeats in your struggle to lower your weight and gain more management over your sleep apnea but that is normal and how we learn. We learn through making mistakes and it's fundamental to honing your ability to making this a sustainable lifestyle. That's the real goal Ron. Make this sustainable to where you break through 15 days and increase your PR by another day or two. You can do it Ron and we're all here cheering you on. You can do it Ron. You are doing it and I'm proud of your effort to want to improve yourself.

Your good friend,
Dan
karenlovessnow and LedBoots like this.
Danny Boy is offline  
#35 Old 09-07-2015, 03:38 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
There's nothing unvegan about apple cider, hard or otherwise, and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about white rice. Vegetable sushi can be a very healthy meal and you can actually order it with brown rice if you prefer. I seem to remember that Whole Foods offers reasonably priced pre-made sushi made with either brown or white rice. If these foods don't make you feel good, though, then of course don't eat them. I'm sorry, but I can't handle these histrionics. Is there maybe somebody you could talk to about the problems you're having, a friend or a therapist?

Last edited by no whey jose; 09-07-2015 at 03:46 AM.
no whey jose is offline  
#36 Old 09-07-2015, 06:07 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Also, many people find it easier to avoid animal products if they keep the animals in mind. Eating parts of a dead cow doesn't seem very appealing when you consider the moral implications. It might also help to shift the focus away from yourself. You could check out the documentary Earthlings.
no whey jose is offline  
#37 Old 09-07-2015, 06:55 AM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,955
I understand his focus being on health, but yes, vegan98036 you're focusing too much on the wrong things. Like the old elephant in the room. If you follow ETL you will lose weight. Stay full with all the veggies and fruits, then comes whole grains, beans, legumes and all that
LedBoots and no whey jose like this.
silva is offline  
#38 Old 09-07-2015, 07:12 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
98036, why are you drinking?
LedBoots is offline  
#39 Old 09-07-2015, 09:53 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 55
I think you need to put down that cider and get to a meeting. It sounds to me like you are just making excuses so you can drink. Get your butt to a meeting! No excuses.
mackiesgirl is offline  
#40 Old 09-09-2015, 02:58 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
I generally view anything called "The [insert applicable descriptor] Diet" as a fad, and I'm not impressed by fads.
I'm the same.
Vegan98036 is offline  
#41 Old 09-09-2015, 03:05 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
I agree. Now what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuberail View Post
I tend to consider politics and technology. Prior to the 1950s or so we did not produce highly processed high fat high sugar or salt refined grain garbage on a massive scale. And yet those foods are considered normal in our obesogenic environment. They should not be normal. They should be the fad. People who make those foods a large or even regular proportion of their intakes have a very unhealthy relationship with food.

What did the Okinawan centenarians eat? Mostly sweet potato, a little bit of white rice, some greens and onions, a handful of legumes and very little of anything else. No added oils. No nuts or seeds. No kgs of romaine lettuce, no 30 bananas a day. Their animal food intake was not zero but less than 5% of total calories. Very boring. But that's just about the healthiest diet we know of. Some people here would call that weird or unhealthy.

Our food supply has been so twisted for so long that we have a very distorted view of what constitutes normal, healthy, or fad.
If I were married, and my wife gave me poison, and then denied it and told lies to throw me off the track, I think I would divorce her! Now the American society has done the same things that my ex-wife did--and it has taken me 60 years to realize it!

So what should I do now? Move to Okinawa? I agree that the standard American diet is "twisted," as you say. It's almost so messed up that I don't know what to do about it!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#42 Old 09-09-2015, 03:08 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
I agree, Joe, but what do you suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
I generally view anything called "The [insert applicable descriptor] Diet" as a fad, and I'm not impressed by fads.
So do you have a positive program to suggest, or are you just criticizing?
Vegan98036 is offline  
#43 Old 09-09-2015, 03:22 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Thanks, Danny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
Ron, you obviously have a need to cathart and get things out of yourself and you ended up here in your quest for help. Perhaps this is one of the beautiful things about some internet forums as it becomes a viable means of self help. We all have issues and some of us struggle more than others. You have some very good basic desires to improve yourself and you sound like a fighter. I'm a little younger than you (65) and this has been a new lifestyle change for me too (6 months). You will have temporary defeats in your struggle to lower your weight and gain more management over your sleep apnea but that is normal and how we learn. We learn through making mistakes and it's fundamental to honing your ability to making this a sustainable lifestyle. That's the real goal Ron. Make this sustainable to where you break through 15 days and increase your PR by another day or two. You can do it Ron and we're all here cheering you on. You can do it Ron. You are doing it and I'm proud of your effort to want to improve yourself.

Your good friend,
Dan
You hit the nail on the head, Danny. I do need to talk, and *****, and complain, and blame the American society and the food processors and my parents, and the grocery stores and the rich people who make money from selling cigarettes and drugs and hot dogs! Because they caused all my problems! I feel that I have been lied to; exploited, cheated, and robbed of my health and my money! But what can I do about it? Sometimes I feel like society is against me and the only thing I can do is to go out and have a drink and forget about it!

That's what I've been doing, and today I decided to sober up! Well, not sober up. That's a term that AA uses, and they think that the way to stop drinking is to transfer my addiction for alcohol to a dependence upon food! Lots of those guys stop drinking--but they trade their drinking problem for some 20 - 30 obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (ORCDD's)! Then they've got 20 - 30 health problems instead of a drinking problem! That's ridiculous! So now I go to AA and they tell me to switch my drinking problem to 20 - 30 food problems!

I think that would be going backwards if I go to AA to stop drinking; don't you?
Vegan98036 is offline  
#44 Old 09-09-2015, 03:41 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Been there; done that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
There's nothing unvegan about apple cider, hard or otherwise, and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about white rice. Vegetable sushi can be a very healthy meal and you can actually order it with brown rice if you prefer. I seem to remember that Whole Foods offers reasonably priced pre-made sushi made with either brown or white rice. If these foods don't make you feel good, though, then of course don't eat them. I'm sorry, but I can't handle these histrionics. Is there maybe somebody you could talk to about the problems you're having, a friend or a therapist?
Actually, Jose, I went to the V.A. in 2007 and they sent me to a psychiatrist, who told me that I have a bipolar mood disorder and need to take depacote (a CNS depressant) for the rest of my life. In 2008 I told him that the long list of drugs he had started me on were not doing anything for my mental, physical, spiritual, or emotional problems. In fact, they were causing a weight gain, headaches, tremors (my hands, feet, head and inner feelings), and I was having uncontrolled falls. I further told him that I suspected that his drugs were going to cause me to eventually have cancer, diabetes, heart disease, dementia, etc., etc., etc.--and that is exactly what happened! Then I told him that I'm getting off the drugs, but he said that would be AMA (Against Medical Advice). I said, "Doctor, I'm getting off these drugs." He then tapered me off the drugs so I would not have seizures.

Since then I've been to AA. Those AA people should know that a drug, is a drug, is a drug--but they told me to eat sweets, chocolate, drink coffee, smoke cigarettes when I wanted to drink (pg 133-135 of the Big Book)! If there's anybody who should understand addiction it should be the alcoholics! But they seem to be IN DENIAL that food can actually be a drug! So they tell me to eat pizza, fried chicken, BBQ, and all the things that cause cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc! Finally I decided that I had to get out of AA because those "alcoholics" are basically addicts: they are smokers, carnivores, sugar freaks, processed food junkies, illicit and prescription drug addicts!

So I quit AA! Now I'm having trouble staying sober, and I come here! You people are telling me it's okay to eat white rice!

I can't eat white rice because it spikes my blood sugar, then I get an insulin reaction, then I get low blood sugar...then I need a drink! It's like one, big trap! It's like maze! And all along the way the people I'm asking for help seem to be as confused about the answers as I am?

I'm sorry if you think this all to be histroionics, but I've already been there and done that! I told my shrink I'm not taking any more drugs because I don't think that's the way out! I told my therapist, and my AA sponsors, and my OA sponsors and my MSW's, and my dietitians that the problem is the standard American diet! So now you tell me that I need a shrink!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#45 Old 09-09-2015, 03:47 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Just tell me the answer, Jose. Don't send me on a wild-goose-chase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Also, many people find it easier to avoid animal products if they keep the animals in mind. Eating parts of a dead cow doesn't seem very appealing when you consider the moral implications. It might also help to shift the focus away from yourself. You could check out the documentary Earthlings.
Jose, sometimes I get the impression that you are here to save a few cows. What about you? What about your baby? What about your husband? I'm here for me, myself, and I! I'm here to save my own ass! I'm here because I don't want to wind up in a nursing home.

I'm beginning to realize that I can't eat sushi or anything else that causes me to have cravings. Because I'm powerless over cravings. Does that sound familiar to you or do you think that alcohol is the only thing that we are powerless over?
Vegan98036 is offline  
#46 Old 09-09-2015, 03:51 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Way back on page one of this thread is a good eating solution for you. Don't you think this would be better than the starve/binge/alcohol cycle you have been on? Concentrate on learning to cook 3 or 4 good vegan meals. It is easy, and your new hobby will keep you busy and out of buffet restaurants. vvv
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
Why not simply stick to Dr. Furhmans eating plan?
I have the book, and if you eat the whole foods he advocates you will lose weight- and then stay at your right weight.
I don't know how much you want to lose, but if you eat the calories you need to maintain your ideal weight, you'll start losing the excess! You won't need to play with calories or adjust.
I did follow his advice for a couple years and did very well. I will say when you lose the sugar you lose your craving. I'm so sorry I ever strayed, but I love to cook bake and eat. I'm now finding my way back

Lentils, beans, whole grains, leafy and all the other veggies and fruits. Done. You need the range of foods to get all your nutrition.

Don't forget spices ! I use tumeric and black pepper every day, and it's tremendous for keeping arthritis away. Well, giving up dairy is the best thing for that. Cinnamon, garlic, ginger, cumin, they're all great for reducing blood pressure and lowering bad cholesterol.
I wish I knew more about herbs. I've started reading up on their role in helping enzyme production to help digestion.

A good tip-- start your day with a tablespoon of lemon juice or apple cider vinegar in a glass of room temp water. That will help digestion. I have found that it's a lack of acid that causes digestion problems. taking antiacids is not good
LedBoots is offline  
#47 Old 09-09-2015, 03:57 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Now we're getting somewhere!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
I understand his focus being on health, but yes, vegan98036 you're focusing too much on the wrong things. Like the old elephant in the room. If you follow ETL you will lose weight. Stay full with all the veggies and fruits, then comes whole grains, beans, legumes and all that
Thanks, Silva, I think we are on the right track. I have been trying to follow ETL, but I had trouble with cravings there because it allows me to have things like chocolate ice cream--as long as I make it myself! It allows me to Vanilla Almond Milk, and mustard, and tortillas, and bread, and lots of other things that cause me to have cravings!

For example, I made some chocolate ice cream according to the ETL recipe (I believe it was blueberries, Vanilla Almond Milk, Cocoa, etc.) and I liked it so much that I ate nothing but chocolate ice cream for 48 hours! Then I not only had cravings, but I was hungry because I had not eaten anything but blueberries and Vanilla Almond Milk for 48 hours, so I went out and had an all-I-could-eat buffet to satisfy my hunger and cravings.

Have you had these problems? Do you have a solution? Would you be willing to help others? I'm thinking that I am going to start a thread called Vegans Anonymous and ask people who have the answers to come and help others the same way that alcoholics use AA as a support group for not drinking! What do you think?

In fact, I'm thinking of using the same Twelve Steps and the same recovery process that alcoholics use to recover from alcoholism. What do you think?
Vegan98036 is offline  
#48 Old 09-09-2015, 04:03 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Because I'm an alcoholic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
98036, why are you drinking?
I'm an alcoholic. That means that every time I think about having fun I get confused and think that I have to drink to have fun! Every time I think about recreation, relaxation, self-gratification, emotional comfort, etc., etc., etc., I wind up thinking about pizza, BBQ, ice cream...and eventually it gets so out of hand that I think, "Well my diet is shot! I'll just have a drink!" Then when I have one drink, I find that alcohol is addictive; it affects my mind, a little bit is good, so I want more...and more...and more...! Until something happens and I realize that I have to quit or I'm going to ruin my health and get thrown in jail.

Do you really have to ask that question? I thought people understood the alcoholic better than that!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#49 Old 09-09-2015, 04:05 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,955
There isn't "an answer". There is no "one size fits all"
It seems you're so focused on a cure-all that you're missing a LOT of good ideas people have given. Kinda like not seeing the forest for the trees!
Step back, breathe deep, engage in hobbies, take walks that don't leave to temptation. You say you don't like planning, but it doesn't have to be as regimented as you make it. Have lists of good foods for meals, and snacks. Limit yourself to good water, and things like tea with maybe a splash of fruit juice
Whole grains are good for controlling blood sugar levels. Dark greens and a variety of other veggies. Fresh whole fruit for snacks. Beans and legumes.
Instead of attempting perfection and feeling defeated, do better.
I think so many are suggesting you try therapy because you sound so stressed out, and continue the same stressful behavior

Many vegans find it far more peaceful to know their diet not only helps them, but helps others. No whey jose certainly does!

Actually helping others can often help yourself. Have you thought of volunteering for something like reading to others, an animal rescue or whatever you care for?
LedBoots likes this.
silva is offline  
#50 Old 09-09-2015, 04:16 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,955
You started this thread considering a 'gorilla diet', which would be terribly restrictive, and not nutritious enough.
How about sticking to the regime of "beans (legumes, tofu, lentils,) veggies, whole grains and fruit?

I've been around a lot of addicts and do realize its not as easy as it sounds
Maybe a group like emotions anonymous or some other type of group therapy might help more. I do think you'd be a good person to volunteer your time in some way.

You really go all out when you do, huh?
silva is offline  
#51 Old 09-09-2015, 04:17 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Thank you! That's the first good advice I've heard in a while!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackiesgirl View Post
I think you need to put down that cider and get to a meeting. It sounds to me like you are just making excuses so you can drink. Get your butt to a meeting! No excuses.
Thank you, however, I've been going to AA meetings since 1-23-2007. What they told me is from a book that was written in 1935 and published in 1938! On pg 133 of the Big Book it says it's okay to eat sweets, carry chocolate, drink coffee and smoke cigarettes in order to stop drinking...then when I get cancer, diabetes and heart disease, I should go to a doctor and take medications!

Well, there's lots of alcoholics in AA who do that and they are pretty sick people, in my opinion. My sponsor, for example, had 27 years of sobriety, and he was taking 28 medications for some 28 medical problems! He was 30 days older than me--and was sicker than me! He had 20 fatal diseases and all the side-effects from all the medications he was taking! He was sicker than me! I had no ORCDD's at that time! But after 6 years of sobriety I developed 12 ORCDD's! At that point I said, "Wait a minute! There's mistakes in the Big Book; the examples I see in AA are sicker than me; the sponsors I've had in AA are sicker than me (I mean more ORCDD's)--so why should I listen to these people?"

I think I need to start my own Twelve-Step program and find my own answers...but I can't do it by myself. Are you familiar with the 12 Steps? Would you be willing to explain to me an other alcoholics how to break this cycle of addiction; this merry-go-round from alcohol to cigarettes, to sugar, to processed food; to animal products; and then back to alcohol?

I'm going to start a thread called Vegans Anonymous, and I'm going to use the 12-Step program (because I think it is good) as the basis of my recovery, and I want to invite some people who understand the 12 Steps to come and help me explain it to some of the alcoholics that I see who don't drink--but they are killing themselves with food!

What I really want to do is to start a support group that will help me solve my problems--and the best way to do that, according to AA, is to help others.
Vegan98036 is offline  
#52 Old 09-09-2015, 04:20 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
OOOPPS, I'm out of computer time for today.

Thanks to everybody for the good discussion. I think it has helped me to understand the problem. Please come to Vegans Anonymous and let's build a 12-step support group.

Ron
Vegan98036 is offline  
#53 Old 09-09-2015, 04:21 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,955
DO you like INdian foodss?
The spices they use are so good for inflammation, reducing the desire for salt or sugar, blood pressure and cholestrol--as long as they're vegan

If you can get to an Indian grocery even the premade frozen or boxed foods are good. Theres a boxed kidney bean curry that is fabulous! I'll try to remember the name. They're in slim shelf stable boxes in foil pouches- heat and eat.
I can really binge when I'm stressed, but I find it almost impossible to eat tooooo much of Indian foods, and pretty hard to eat anything else after
silva is offline  
#54 Old 09-09-2015, 04:43 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
Jose, sometimes I get the impression that you are here to save a few cows. What about you? What about your baby? What about your husband? I'm here for me, myself, and I! I'm here to save my own ass! I'm here because I don't want to wind up in a nursing home.

I'm beginning to realize that I can't eat sushi or anything else that causes me to have cravings. Because I'm powerless over cravings. Does that sound familiar to you or do you think that alcohol is the only thing that we are powerless over?
I'm vegan. That means that I care about the exploitation, suffering, and death of the billions of animals killed annually for food, including cows. My husband, baby, and myself are doing just fine. I can't say the same for the billions of babies thrown fully conscious into meat grinders every year.

If you're only here for yourself, that's great too (although it is much easier to avoid animal products when you value their lives, and much easier to control your own impulses when you're not entirely wrapped up in yourself-- I can't make you care about animals if you don't.) You've been given a lot of sound advice which you are choosing to ignore. The only healthy diet is a varied and balanced one which meets your nutritional needs. This means a wide variety of vegetables, fruits, legumes, and whole grains. That's how you manage your weight and your diabetes-- not by drinking, not by binging, not by severely restricting your calories, not by obsessively weighing yourself, but by eating a reasonable and varied diet. That's it. Is it easier said than done? Yeah, of course. But if you genuinely care for your health, you'll suck it up and do it. You really don't have an acceptable alternative.

I don't think that any of us are powerless over any addiction. I think that's a dangerous and misguided idea which allows us to avoid taking responsibility for our own mistakes.
LedBoots likes this.
no whey jose is offline  
#55 Old 09-09-2015, 05:47 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
So do you have a positive program to suggest, or are you just criticizing?
I don't think a "program" is necessary; just eat a variety of vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts. Oils, salt, even white flour/rice and sugars aren't bad if one eats them in moderation (and a decent amount of oil/fat is actually essential).

IOW, one just needs to use common sense and eat in a way that is both enjoyable and sustainable in the long term, rather than hopping from one kind of fad diet to another.

Food has become a lot like fashion, unfortunately; people feel the need to eat/wear whatever is "in" at the moment, and a "diet", just like an item of clothing, isn't acceptable unless it bears a certain label.
no whey jose likes this.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#56 Old 09-09-2015, 07:05 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Okay, Boots!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
Way back on page one of this thread is a good eating solution for you. Don't you think this would be better than the starve/binge/alcohol cycle you have been on? Concentrate on learning to cook 3 or 4 good vegan meals. It is easy, and your new hobby will keep you busy and out of buffet restaurants. vvv
Now, that sounds like a plan I should try. Okay, I'll try it.

Now, do you think that's all it takes to overcome my mental, physical, social, spiritual and emotional problems for the rest of my life? No, I don't think so! That's the difference between an alcoholic and a "normal person."

The alcoholic realizes that in order to accomplish a simple little thing like, "Don't drink alcohol," he needs a 24/7 support group to help him solve all the emotional, etc., etc., etc. problems that he drinks over.

The normal person says, "Okay, just tell me once and I can take it from there."

See the difference? I'm trying to start a support group for people who may be able to use a 12-Step support group--mainly me!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#57 Old 09-09-2015, 07:14 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Yep!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
There isn't "an answer". There is no "one size fits all"
It seems you're so focused on a cure-all that you're missing a LOT of good ideas people have given. Kinda like not seeing the forest for the trees!
Step back, breathe deep, engage in hobbies, take walks that don't leave to temptation. You say you don't like planning, but it doesn't have to be as regimented as you make it. Have lists of good foods for meals, and snacks. Limit yourself to good water, and things like tea with maybe a splash of fruit juice
Whole grains are good for controlling blood sugar levels. Dark greens and a variety of other veggies. Fresh whole fruit for snacks. Beans and legumes.
Instead of attempting perfection and feeling defeated, do better.
I think so many are suggesting you try therapy because you sound so stressed out, and continue the same stressful behavior

Many vegans find it far more peaceful to know their diet not only helps them, but helps others. No whey jose certainly does!

Actually helping others can often help yourself. Have you thought of volunteering for something like reading to others, an animal rescue or whatever you care for?
Well, as I was explaining to Boots, the thing that is different between an alcoholic and a "normal person" is that alcoholics need to be talked down out of the trees frequently! A normal person says, "Okay, that's easy enough!" Yet 97% of normal people cannot make the kind of complete and permanent lifestyle change we are talking about here!

You talk about volunteering to help other people...well that's what I'm doing right here! Many normal people don't realize that a group of 5-6 like-minded friends can be a powerful support group, which can solve many more problems than just "don't eat animals."

So I'm going to post a thread called Vegans Anonymous and hope that it becomes a lifetime support group for me and others. Many people just need their computer and they've got all the anonymous posts from complete strangers that they need for a happy life! I'm not that way!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#58 Old 09-09-2015, 07:19 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Been there, done that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
You started this thread considering a 'gorilla diet', which would be terribly restrictive, and not nutritious enough.
How about sticking to the regime of "beans (legumes, tofu, lentils,) veggies, whole grains and fruit?

I've been around a lot of addicts and do realize its not as easy as it sounds
Maybe a group like emotions anonymous or some other type of group therapy might help more. I do think you'd be a good person to volunteer your time in some way.

You really go all out when you do, huh?
Silva, I've been to Emotions Anonymous. My conclusion was that those were the most mixed up, emotionally ill people I've ever met! I hope you don't go there! You don't seem to be the type. After one (1) EA meeting I decided that group was not going to help me do anything! They've got so many problems they probably could use MY HELP!

What I would rather do is start my own 12-Step program. I think that would be much better than going to somebody else's group. I hope you will come and help me out. A 12-Step group takes a whole room full of people to talk about all aspects of the problem, from all sides, over and over, not just once!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#59 Old 09-09-2015, 07:26 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Now the truth is beginning to come out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
DO you like INdian foodss?
The spices they use are so good for inflammation, reducing the desire for salt or sugar, blood pressure and cholestrol--as long as they're vegan

If you can get to an Indian grocery even the premade frozen or boxed foods are good. Theres a boxed kidney bean curry that is fabulous! I'll try to remember the name. They're in slim shelf stable boxes in foil pouches- heat and eat.
I can really binge when I'm stressed, but I find it almost impossible to eat tooooo much of Indian foods, and pretty hard to eat anything else after
So! You still binge also! Would you consider using a 12-Step support group to help you with that problem? Or are you just satisfied to binge and run to an India restaurant? I think that the Indian restaurants use too much oil for a person like me. My instructions are to avoid, rather abstain, from all oil of any kind. My instructions (for heart disease) are: "NO OIL! Not a drop!" For me, just a little oil places me endanger of losing the advantage I gain from the Nitric Oxide Effect. I'll check it out, but I don't know if I can eat Indian foods because of all the oil they put in EVERYTHING!
Vegan98036 is offline  
#60 Old 09-09-2015, 07:37 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 111
Personal Question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
I'm vegan. That means that I care about the exploitation, suffering, and death of the billions of animals killed annually for food, including cows. My husband, baby, and myself are doing just fine. I can't say the same for the billions of babies thrown fully conscious into meat grinders every year.

If you're only here for yourself, that's great too (although it is much easier to avoid animal products when you value their lives, and much easier to control your own impulses when you're not entirely wrapped up in yourself-- I can't make you care about animals if you don't.) You've been given a lot of sound advice which you are choosing to ignore. The only healthy diet is a varied and balanced one which meets your nutritional needs. This means a wide variety of vegetables, fruits, legumes, and whole grains. That's how you manage your weight and your diabetes-- not by drinking, not by binging, not by severely restricting your calories, not by obsessively weighing yourself, but by eating a reasonable and varied diet. That's it. Is it easier said than done? Yeah, of course. But if you genuinely care for your health, you'll suck it up and do it. You really don't have an acceptable alternative.

I don't think that any of us are powerless over any addiction. I think that's a dangerous and misguided idea which allows us to avoid taking responsibility for our own mistakes.
Say, Jose, you don't sound like you've ever been to an AA meeting! Have you? What is the First Step? What is Step One in AA? Does it mention "powerless"?

What is the Third Step? On pg 60 of the AA Big Book, does it say anything about a life run strictly on self will? Does it talk about Playing God? Playing the director? Does it give any insight into the problem that control freaks are likely to have in a marriage? A job? life in general? Is AA only about "Don't Drink"? Or is it a support group for people who need spiritual answers in their lives--whether they are drunk or sober?

Have you worked the Steps? Are you able to apply them to your vegan lifestyle? How many AA meetings have you been to? Have you worked with a sponsor? Have you achieved the promises? Have you realized what it is like to be "happy, joyous and free"?

If you answer is no to any of these questions, then I invite you to check out Vegans Anonymous, for your own good. If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I invite you to check out Vegans Anonymous for the benefit that you could bring to others.

But I'm trying not to be a control freak. You do what you feel is best, okay?
Vegan98036 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off