Still trying, but this is not easy for me. - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-12-2015, 12:29 PM
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Still trying, but this is not easy for me.

I am basically a pleasure-seeker. But I hit a brick wall with alcohol in January, 2007 and went to AA to quit drinking. They told me to substitute "comfort food" for my alcohol addiction. Six years later I had a "comfort food" addiction, as well as 12 of the resulting obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (ORCDD's) to go with it.

But when my doctor said I had "paraprotienemias" in my blood that showed cancer, I decided to go vegan "cold turkey"! Six months later: no paraprotienemias! Since that time I've also tried to reverse diabetes, heart disease, diverticulitis, etc., etc., etc. and that gets into renouncing sugar, processed food and almost everything but fruits and veggies!

I can do it well enough to keep my B/P, glucose and cholesterol within "relatively safe" zones, but I'm not losing weight! That's what I really need to do is to lose weight!

I'm 71 y/o and desperate to stay out of a nursing home--but giving up all my "comfort food" makes me want to put a bullet in my head!

This time, I've been vegan since last Friday, 8/7/15. It's hard!
Ron
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#2 Old 08-12-2015, 03:06 PM
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Congratulations on not drinking anymore and reversing your cancer! I just started going vegan and trying to loose weight (which means less junk food for me) and I understand how hard it is. I walk into stores to buy celery, see a snack I used to love, and get horrible cravings. With my limited experience, I suggest buying vegan chocolate or chips from a specialty or health food store and using that as your sometimes comfort food. Also add a little exercise to your daily routine to help you loose weight.

I hope that helps and maybe someone with more experience will be around soon.

Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
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#3 Old 08-13-2015, 05:06 AM
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Welcome Ron! That is a great achievement, to overcome cancer and get healthier in all the ways that you have. And congratulations on quitting drinking! I am also a recovering alcoholic (and in recovery from anorexia nervosa/binge/purge subtype).

I think in regards to the food, you have to change your whole attitude about food. From live to eat to eat to live. That's not saying you can't enjoy healthy food and look forward to it. Healthy doesn't mean cutting out everything but celery and lettuce. "Treats" can be steamed sweet potato and fresh pineapple mashed together with a little ginger, or a few medjool dates (those can be bought in small amounts in bulk sections of groceries so as not to binge on them). The more you learn to cook/prepare fruits and vegetables and whole grains, beans, nuts/seeds etc, the more imaginative and creative you become, and the easier it is to enjoy and look forward to healthy meals that are still filling and energy giving without weighing you down. Food doesn't have to be boring to be healthy! And it doesn't have to take hours to cook. Invest in some good cookbooks or start a three ring binder and search the many blogs and webistes on the internet under Vegan. Sites like FatFreeVegan, or ForksOverKnives, or Oh She Glows have great healthy and enjoyable dishes.

Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous? There are also phone meetings totally free if you google Eating Disorders Anonymous (http://www.eatingdisordersanonymous....emeetings.html). Sometimes real life support for food addictions is very helpful. Focusing only on diet overlooks the underlying causes/associations/habits that drive you to seek out comfort food. Sometimes too, it's just a matter of being way too strict and setting up too many rules for yourself that you can't achieve, and then becoming disappointed and giving up altogether. Slow and steady steps might be the way to go for you.

I also second some exercise, even something like brisk walking in the early mornings, or light stretching. Anything to get yourself moving. Exercise creates more internal energy and enhances positive mood.

I wish you the best on your journey and hope to hear some more from you!
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#4 Old 08-13-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Radharc View Post
Congratulations on not drinking anymore and reversing your cancer! I just started going vegan and trying to loose weight (which means less junk food for me) and I understand how hard it is. I walk into stores to buy celery, see a snack I used to love, and get horrible cravings. With my limited experience, I suggest buying vegan chocolate or chips from a specialty or health food store and using that as your sometimes comfort food. Also add a little exercise to your daily routine to help you loose weight.

I hope that helps and maybe someone with more experience will be around soon.


Hello, Radharc3747169,
Thanks for the support! I know how lousy celery tastes after I've had vegan chocolate or chips from a specialty health food store, because I've tried it! Let me know how that experiment goes, okay! I found that I have to go cold turkey on the sugar, salt, oils before I can stand to eat a piece of celery. Something about addictive qualities of sugar, etc.


I'm exercising at the Y every other day and trying to stay off sugar completely. From my experience, that's the only way I can go vegan. I find that as long as I keep eating sugar, I still have a sugar addiction.


But I may be a unique person. Please let me know how it goes with you. Let me know if it gets any easier...!
Ron
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#5 Old 08-13-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post
Welcome Ron! That is a great achievement, to overcome cancer and get healthier in all the ways that you have. And congratulations on quitting drinking! I am also a recovering alcoholic (and in recovery from anorexia nervosa/binge/purge subtype).

I think in regards to the food, you have to change your whole attitude about food. From live to eat to eat to live. That's not saying you can't enjoy healthy food and look forward to it. Healthy doesn't mean cutting out everything but celery and lettuce. "Treats" can be steamed sweet potato and fresh pineapple mashed together with a little ginger, or a few medjool dates (those can be bought in small amounts in bulk sections of groceries so as not to binge on them). The more you learn to cook/prepare fruits and vegetables and whole grains, beans, nuts/seeds etc, the more imaginative and creative you become, and the easier it is to enjoy and look forward to healthy meals that are still filling and energy giving without weighing you down. Food doesn't have to be boring to be healthy! And it doesn't have to take hours to cook. Invest in some good cookbooks or start a three ring binder and search the many blogs and webistes on the internet under Vegan. Sites like FatFreeVegan, or ForksOverKnives, or Oh She Glows have great healthy and enjoyable dishes.

Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous? There are also phone meetings totally free if you google Eating Disorders Anonymous (http://www.eatingdisordersanonymous....emeetings.html). Sometimes real life support for food addictions is very helpful. Focusing only on diet overlooks the underlying causes/associations/habits that drive you to seek out comfort food. Sometimes too, it's just a matter of being way too strict and setting up too many rules for yourself that you can't achieve, and then becoming disappointed and giving up altogether. Slow and steady steps might be the way to go for you.

I also second some exercise, even something like brisk walking in the early mornings, or light stretching. Anything to get yourself moving. Exercise creates more internal energy and enhances positive mood.

I wish you the best on your journey and hope to hear some more from you!

Wow! Sounds like you've done some research on this topic! Let me see...where should we begin...?


I had to quit AA because I found that "everybody in an AA meeting" is in total denial about food addiction! The reason for this misfortune is that pg 133 of Alcoholics Anonymous says it's okay to eat "sweets...chocolate...coffee...smoke cigarettes." And then when we alcoholics get sick, on pg 133 again it says to go to a doctor (and take medications). And that's exactly what I found in AA. Those people don't even want me to talk about anything but alcohol!


And in addition to submitting to censorship, they expect me to sit quietly in meetings where people are stuffing doughnuts and slurping coffee--but I'm on a diet! The whole AA lifestyle is a substitution of food addiction for alcohol addiction, as I see it, and it is a mental, physical and physical addiction that is as bad, if not worse than alcoholism, in my opinion--because it leads to cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease(s) even after "recovered alcoholics" have been sober for 20, 30, 40 years!


I got tired of being a second-class citizen in a room full of elephants--but I can't talk about the elephants!


Do you know what I mean?


I will wait to hear from you before I start on OA! That place is even worse than AA!


What I say is my opinion, of course. It is based upon my experience. And it is possible that I have had a completely different experience than yours.


Ron
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#6 Old 08-13-2015, 12:16 PM
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Now for OA!

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Welcome Ron! That is a great achievement, to overcome cancer and get healthier in all the ways that you have. And congratulations on quitting drinking! I am also a recovering alcoholic (and in recovery from anorexia nervosa/binge/purge subtype).

I think in regards to the food, you have to change your whole attitude about food. From live to eat to eat to live. That's not saying you can't enjoy healthy food and look forward to it. Healthy doesn't mean cutting out everything but celery and lettuce. "Treats" can be steamed sweet potato and fresh pineapple mashed together with a little ginger, or a few medjool dates (those can be bought in small amounts in bulk sections of groceries so as not to binge on them). The more you learn to cook/prepare fruits and vegetables and whole grains, beans, nuts/seeds etc, the more imaginative and creative you become, and the easier it is to enjoy and look forward to healthy meals that are still filling and energy giving without weighing you down. Food doesn't have to be boring to be healthy! And it doesn't have to take hours to cook. Invest in some good cookbooks or start a three ring binder and search the many blogs and webistes on the internet under Vegan. Sites like FatFreeVegan, or ForksOverKnives, or Oh She Glows have great healthy and enjoyable dishes.

Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous? There are also phone meetings totally free if you google Eating Disorders Anonymous (http://www.eatingdisordersanonymous....emeetings.html). Sometimes real life support for food addictions is very helpful. Focusing only on diet overlooks the underlying causes/associations/habits that drive you to seek out comfort food. Sometimes too, it's just a matter of being way too strict and setting up too many rules for yourself that you can't achieve, and then becoming disappointed and giving up altogether. Slow and steady steps might be the way to go for you.

I also second some exercise, even something like brisk walking in the early mornings, or light stretching. Anything to get yourself moving. Exercise creates more internal energy and enhances positive mood.

I wish you the best on your journey and hope to hear some more from you!


Naturebound,


It so happens that I've been to a number of OA meetings in the last two years. These have all been totally frustrating experience! Last Thursday I tried to talk in a meeting about a book I just read, titled Eat to Live, by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, M.D.


But they interrupted me and said that I cannot talk about doctors or books that are not "OA approved." I reminded them that they had interrupted me and that they were cross-talking while I was trying to share. I then explained that Eat to Live gives scientific proof that calorie restriction, controlling portion size, weighing and measuring addictive foods don't work. In other words, this book explains that the majority of measures they take in OA will not work!


There was quite a bit of alienation in the room when I finished speaking, and I was so disgusted with those people that I walked out of the meeting! I can't see any benefit to sitting in room full of fat people who are in total denial of Reality and Truth--and don't even want to hear the scientific truth--so I haven't been back to OA either! And don't intend to go back!


I will try the internet site you recommend, however.


Thank you.
Ron
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#7 Old 08-13-2015, 12:43 PM
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Welcome Ron! That is a great achievement, to overcome cancer and get healthier in all the ways that you have. And congratulations on quitting drinking! I am also a recovering alcoholic (and in recovery from anorexia nervosa/binge/purge subtype).

I think in regards to the food, you have to change your whole attitude about food. From live to eat to eat to live. That's not saying you can't enjoy healthy food and look forward to it. Healthy doesn't mean cutting out everything but celery and lettuce. "Treats" can be steamed sweet potato and fresh pineapple mashed together with a little ginger, or a few medjool dates (those can be bought in small amounts in bulk sections of groceries so as not to binge on them). The more you learn to cook/prepare fruits and vegetables and whole grains, beans, nuts/seeds etc, the more imaginative and creative you become, and the easier it is to enjoy and look forward to healthy meals that are still filling and energy giving without weighing you down. Food doesn't have to be boring to be healthy! And it doesn't have to take hours to cook. Invest in some good cookbooks or start a three ring binder and search the many blogs and webistes on the internet under Vegan. Sites like FatFreeVegan, or ForksOverKnives, or Oh She Glows have great healthy and enjoyable dishes.

Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous? There are also phone meetings totally free if you google Eating Disorders Anonymous (http://www.eatingdisordersanonymous....emeetings.html). Sometimes real life support for food addictions is very helpful. Focusing only on diet overlooks the underlying causes/associations/habits that drive you to seek out comfort food. Sometimes too, it's just a matter of being way too strict and setting up too many rules for yourself that you can't achieve, and then becoming disappointed and giving up altogether. Slow and steady steps might be the way to go for you.

I also second some exercise, even something like brisk walking in the early mornings, or light stretching. Anything to get yourself moving. Exercise creates more internal energy and enhances positive mood.

I wish you the best on your journey and hope to hear some more from you!


The rest of your earlier post was about what I call "mental problems, social problems." I'm trying to take an AA 12-step approach to this food problem, and My Step One is "Admitted that we were powerless over the standard American diet (SAD)--that our lives had become unmanageable."


That means that my approach to food addiction is to entirely abstain from SAD. That means everything! I can't eat anything but plant-based, whole foods now. And that is awfully challenging. I happen to have some steamed yams and fresh pineapple at home now and I will have to try your recipe.


Last night I was alone, nothing to do, so I wanted to turn to food and there was nothing to eat other than carrots, lettuce and bean soup!


It's a real challenge!
Ron
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#8 Old 08-13-2015, 05:06 PM
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Yeah, the OA idea definitely doesn't sound like something for you! I actually had a really bad experience in OA also, but I mentioned it because I have had a few friends who thought it really helped them. I was less than 90 lbs when I went to a few OA meetings, very very sick, and desperate for help but in a place where I could feel like I had some control and say over my recovery. I had been force fed in an eating disorder treatment program before that and it was so traumatizing and humiliating that the minute I was able to get away from there (my insurance wouldn't cover most of it and I owed more than $9000 out of pocket which was my perfect excuse to leave) I dropped an insane amount of weight, all the weight I had gained in treatment and then some. For me OA was hard because they talked about food restriction as a strategy, and I was an anorexic, not a binge eater, and I was so tiny. But someone had told me that it might help anyway so I had tried a few meetings. I would just sob and sob and no one would even ask if I was ok. It was embarrassing.

EDA was better, but the focus was not on food at all, or that kind of focus on lifestyle. But it was based on the AA twelve steps. I lasted there a while but it was all on the phone and I needed something more personal.

It sounds like you know what you want and have a focus. Maybe you just need more experience as a vegan. I'm thinking about that bean soup, lettuce, and carrots you mentioned, and I see a carrot bean soup puree with curry powder and spices like cinammon, garlic powder, garam masala. Or a splash of vinegar and chili powder on the carrots, cut up like match sticks, and baked in the oven.

Addictions are hard to overcome, but entirely possible! I hope you stick around. And I just want to cheer you on when you shared about the Eat to Live book (I have that one too!) at the OA meeting. I learned rather quickly in my excitement over being a new vegan back in the day that 99% of the world does not share my same excitement and enthusiasm. This morning I cycled to work with my "Vegan Proudly Powered By Plants" shirt on in bright white bold letters against grey and boy did people glare lol.

Thanks for being so candid! With your determination and strong beliefs, I suspect you will succeed in time.
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#9 Old 08-13-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
Hello, Radharc3747169,
Thanks for the support! I know how lousy celery tastes after I've had vegan chocolate or chips from a specialty health food store, because I've tried it! Let me know how that experiment goes, okay! I found that I have to go cold turkey on the sugar, salt, oils before I can stand to eat a piece of celery. Something about addictive qualities of sugar, etc.


I'm exercising at the Y every other day and trying to stay off sugar completely. From my experience, that's the only way I can go vegan. I find that as long as I keep eating sugar, I still have a sugar addiction.


But I may be a unique person. Please let me know how it goes with you. Let me know if it gets any easier...!
Ron
I actually enjoy the taste of celery, especially with some hummus or peanut butter. If you don't like celery, don't force yourself to eat it. Eat what you like within the realm of your new diet and it will be much easier. I also have a bit of a sugar addiction which is why I gained weight in the first place. Now I'm only buying v. chocolate when I'm under quite a bit of stress as I feel eating a bit of sugar is better than throwing things (unfortunately I'm bipolar 1 so this can happen from time to time if I'm under too much stress). If cutting out sugar is what you need to do then go for it! If you're eating partly because you're bored, try spending your spare time on the forums here, on research, or a hobby. I've found that I have to cook most of my meals myself now and it takes up so much time looking up recipes, altering them, shopping for fresh ingredients, then cooking, that I don't get bored enough to munch when I'm not hungry. And this is after only 2 weeks of veganism! That being said, I have fun cooking so spending so much time on it every day doesn't bother me.

I'm glad you're exercising, it's almost always a healthy choice. I myself joined a martial arts dojo near me because I find regular working out too boring to stay dedicated.
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#10 Old 08-16-2015, 02:58 PM
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Yeah, the OA idea definitely doesn't sound like something for you! I actually had a really bad experience in OA also, but I mentioned it because I have had a few friends who thought it really helped them. I was less than 90 lbs when I went to a few OA meetings, very very sick, and desperate for help but in a place where I could feel like I had some control and say over my recovery. I had been force fed in an eating disorder treatment program before that and it was so traumatizing and humiliating that the minute I was able to get away from there (my insurance wouldn't cover most of it and I owed more than $9000 out of pocket which was my perfect excuse to leave) I dropped an insane amount of weight, all the weight I had gained in treatment and then some. For me OA was hard because they talked about food restriction as a strategy, and I was an anorexic, not a binge eater, and I was so tiny. But someone had told me that it might help anyway so I had tried a few meetings. I would just sob and sob and no one would even ask if I was ok. It was embarrassing.

EDA was better, but the focus was not on food at all, or that kind of focus on lifestyle. But it was based on the AA twelve steps. I lasted there a while but it was all on the phone and I needed something more personal.

It sounds like you know what you want and have a focus. Maybe you just need more experience as a vegan. I'm thinking about that bean soup, lettuce, and carrots you mentioned, and I see a carrot bean soup puree with curry powder and spices like cinammon, garlic powder, garam masala. Or a splash of vinegar and chili powder on the carrots, cut up like match sticks, and baked in the oven.

Addictions are hard to overcome, but entirely possible! I hope you stick around. And I just want to cheer you on when you shared about the Eat to Live book (I have that one too!) at the OA meeting. I learned rather quickly in my excitement over being a new vegan back in the day that 99% of the world does not share my same excitement and enthusiasm. This morning I cycled to work with my "Vegan Proudly Powered By Plants" shirt on in bright white bold letters against grey and boy did people glare lol.

Thanks for being so candid! With your determination and strong beliefs, I suspect you will succeed in time.
Naturebound,

I feel for you, man! I know those fat girls can be pretty cruel sometimes when all of them gang up on one guy in the meeting.

Yes, I think that OA is not the place I belong. And I don't think OA phone meetings would be any different. So I appreciate the suggestion. We've considered it now, and I think we agree that we can forget about that one.

I'm also feeling like the only vegan in my AA meetings as well! In fact, I no longer consider AA to be an appropriate support group! After 6 year's sobriety, my food problems and associated obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (cancer, diabetes, heart disease...) are worrying me more than my drinking! And in AA they are in total denial about everything but alcohol! They are even offended if I introduce myself as, "My name is Ron, and I'm a low-fat, raw vegan with a desire to stop drinking"!

They want me to fit in and be like them and slurp coffee and stuff doughnuts and chocolates and smoke cigarettes and breathe second-hand cigarette smoke--just like them. So I'm now looking for a completely different set of support groups. I may try a Buddhist meditation at a Buddhist Monastery.

Yes, I think I will eventually find a way to do this, even if I have to become a recluse!

Thanks for your share. You are the first AA that I have ever met who is also a vegan.
Ron
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#11 Old 08-16-2015, 03:05 PM
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Same Here

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I actually enjoy the taste of celery, especially with some hummus or peanut butter. If you don't like celery, don't force yourself to eat it. Eat what you like within the realm of your new diet and it will be much easier. I also have a bit of a sugar addiction which is why I gained weight in the first place. Now I'm only buying v. chocolate when I'm under quite a bit of stress as I feel eating a bit of sugar is better than throwing things (unfortunately I'm bipolar 1 so this can happen from time to time if I'm under too much stress). If cutting out sugar is what you need to do then go for it! If you're eating partly because you're bored, try spending your spare time on the forums here, on research, or a hobby. I've found that I have to cook most of my meals myself now and it takes up so much time looking up recipes, altering them, shopping for fresh ingredients, then cooking, that I don't get bored enough to munch when I'm not hungry. And this is after only 2 weeks of veganism! That being said, I have fun cooking so spending so much time on it every day doesn't bother me.

I'm glad you're exercising, it's almost always a healthy choice. I myself joined a martial arts dojo near me because I find regular working out too boring to stay dedicated.
I just meant that celery or greens or veggies don't taste good after I've been eating sugar. Ive also been a vegan for only two weeks and I also am a sugar addict and I also eat because I'm lonely, isolated or bored. And I also enjoy just shopping, cooking and doing all the things I have to do just to stay vegan.

I would spend more time on the forums but I don't have a computer. I have to walk to the library to use a free public computer only two hours a day for all my business. And speaking of time, I only have 2 minutes left today, so I will see you tomorrow.

Thanks
Ron
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#12 Old 08-16-2015, 04:17 PM
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Naturebound,

I feel for you, man! I know those fat girls can be pretty cruel sometimes when all of them gang up on one guy in the meeting.

Yes, I think that OA is not the place I belong. And I don't think OA phone meetings would be any different. So I appreciate the suggestion. We've considered it now, and I think we agree that we can forget about that one.

I'm also feeling like the only vegan in my AA meetings as well! In fact, I no longer consider AA to be an appropriate support group! After 6 year's sobriety, my food problems and associated obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (cancer, diabetes, heart disease...) are worrying me more than my drinking! And in AA they are in total denial about everything but alcohol! They are even offended if I introduce myself as, "My name is Ron, and I'm a low-fat, raw vegan with a desire to stop drinking"!

They want me to fit in and be like them and slurp coffee and stuff doughnuts and chocolates and smoke cigarettes and breathe second-hand cigarette smoke--just like them. So I'm now looking for a completely different set of support groups. I may try a Buddhist meditation at a Buddhist Monastery.

Yes, I think I will eventually find a way to do this, even if I have to become a recluse!

Thanks for your share. You are the first AA that I have ever met who is also a vegan.
Ron
Just to be clear, I have not been to an AA meeting in six years (I became vegan 4.5 years ago). The last EDA meeting I did was in early 2010, and the OA meetings were in 2009. So I am not an AA person per say. It helped me in the first few years of sobriety but I feel I have more than moved on from the need for AA. My drinking career was short but intense and more of a mental/emotional addiction than a physical one. The eating disorder is much harder for me to overcome since it is so tied to something that is totally necessary to survive. I have come a long way but I still struggle.

It seems that there is an element of spirituality that is maybe lacking in your life that might help you in overcoming your food addictions. I too lack spiritual health. In fact I feel downright lost in this area right now, and I have been frantically trying to find ways to fill this void. I think it's an important peace of the puzzle and I hope you continue to pursue it. I feel that I am an atheist (at least as far as organized religion goes) but I also feel a greater connection to something bigger when I am out in nature, or when a new idea hits me, or I feel such love from others. So maybe agnostic is a better term. IDK. Veganism to me is a practice in spirituality so maybe in that regard I do practice it in some way, trying to cause the least harm to others and myself.

Does raw fruit cause you to crave comfort food, since it too has sugar in it? Or is that different? Ever think of keeping a bunch of bananas around when a craving hits? I tried this for a while. I did all raw when I was in a period of bingeing/starving because I felt that I could eat a much greater amount of fresh fruit without worrying about calories and so on. It was actually refreshing to eat four or five bananas at a time because I loved them but for some reason always had this silly rule in my head that I could only have one a day. Or berries. I would eat a whole pint of them instead of just a few in cereal. I couldn't stay with all raw longer than a few weeks though, I think because it still felt restrictive as far as choices and I didn't feel I could get my nutritional needs met. I still wasn't willing to eat the amount of raw food I would have needed to meet those needs. But it was a nice experiment in eating more freely without feeling such guilt and anguish. Breaking some rules in my head I guess felt good. Some people swear by eating all raw, that is has helped them overcome bulimia and bingeing. It changes your taste buds. I rarely used spices and condiments when I ate raw. I really appreciated the texture and tastes of fruits and vegetables without doctoring them up, and when I would eat something more processed it felt too strong for me and just bla!

I don't know what other advice I can give you, but I will cheer you on and just say that I am glad you chose the vegan path for whatever reason!

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



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#13 Old 08-17-2015, 10:58 AM
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Exactly!!!

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Just to be clear, I have not been to an AA meeting in six years (I became vegan 4.5 years ago). The last EDA meeting I did was in early 2010, and the OA meetings were in 2009. So I am not an AA person per say. It helped me in the first few years of sobriety but I feel I have more than moved on from the need for AA. My drinking career was short but intense and more of a mental/emotional addiction than a physical one. The eating disorder is much harder for me to overcome since it is so tied to something that is totally necessary to survive. I have come a long way but I still struggle.

It seems that there is an element of spirituality that is maybe lacking in your life that might help you in overcoming your food addictions. I too lack spiritual health. In fact I feel downright lost in this area right now, and I have been frantically trying to find ways to fill this void. I think it's an important peace of the puzzle and I hope you continue to pursue it. I feel that I am an atheist (at least as far as organized religion goes) but I also feel a greater connection to something bigger when I am out in nature, or when a new idea hits me, or I feel such love from others. So maybe agnostic is a better term. IDK. Veganism to me is a practice in spirituality so maybe in that regard I do practice it in some way, trying to cause the least harm to others and myself.

Does raw fruit cause you to crave comfort food, since it too has sugar in it? Or is that different? Ever think of keeping a bunch of bananas around when a craving hits? I tried this for a while. I did all raw when I was in a period of bingeing/starving because I felt that I could eat a much greater amount of fresh fruit without worrying about calories and so on. It was actually refreshing to eat four or five bananas at a time because I loved them but for some reason always had this silly rule in my head that I could only have one a day. Or berries. I would eat a whole pint of them instead of just a few in cereal. I couldn't stay with all raw longer than a few weeks though, I think because it still felt restrictive as far as choices and I didn't feel I could get my nutritional needs met. I still wasn't willing to eat the amount of raw food I would have needed to meet those needs. But it was a nice experiment in eating more freely without feeling such guilt and anguish. Breaking some rules in my head I guess felt good. Some people swear by eating all raw, that is has helped them overcome bulimia and bingeing. It changes your taste buds. I rarely used spices and condiments when I ate raw. I really appreciated the texture and tastes of fruits and vegetables without doctoring them up, and when I would eat something more processed it felt too strong for me and just bla!

I don't know what other advice I can give you, but I will cheer you on and just say that I am glad you chose the vegan path for whatever reason!

Yes, that reflects my path, exactly! I was sober for 6 years in AA, but I began to develop a number of obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases (ORCDD's) as a result of the fact that I stayed sober by means of simply transferring my addiction for alcohol to a dependence upon comfort food (which was my REAL addiction in the first place)! Then I went to OA and found that totally unsatisfactory because it neglected the spiritual element and the truth elements that AA satisfied. I tried alanon, emotions anonymous, narcotics anonymous, debtors anonymous and still found the spiritual element to be completely missing. So I am now in the process of detaching from all 12-Step programs--but it's as hard for me as giving up a part of my soul!


I too am an atheist. In fact, my parents were fundamentalist, hard-shell Baptists in the Texas Bible Belt, and I got so sick of that whole society by the time that I was 14 y/o that I became a militant atheist. In fact, in the late 1950's I sympathized with the Castro revolution in Cuba; the Sandinista Revolution in Nicaragua in the 1980's, and even went to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City in 1981 to volunteer to "defect" to Russia! Mercifully, they didn't want me. Even today I am a socialist. I like listening to Bernie Sanders!


So I think I'm going to have to break with all this stuff and find a Buddhist Monastery. I relate to Buddha. He was an atheist, socialist, non-drinker, moderate eater sort. And I also relate to Mahatma Gandhi. But I definitely have a spiritual vacuum in my breast that I have trouble filling.


So now I am in the process of detaching from AA
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#14 Old 08-17-2015, 11:20 AM
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Yes, Sir!

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Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post

Does raw fruit cause you to crave comfort food, since it too has sugar in it? Or is that different? Ever think of keeping a bunch of bananas around when a craving hits? I tried this for a while. I did all raw when I was in a period of bingeing/starving because I felt that I could eat a much greater amount of fresh fruit without worrying about calories and so on. It was actually refreshing to eat four or five bananas at a time because I loved them but for some reason always had this silly rule in my head that I could only have one a day. Or berries. I would eat a whole pint of them instead of just a few in cereal. I couldn't stay with all raw longer than a few weeks though, I think because it still felt restrictive as far as choices and I didn't feel I could get my nutritional needs met. I still wasn't willing to eat the amount of raw food I would have needed to meet those needs. But it was a nice experiment in eating more freely without feeling such guilt and anguish. Breaking some rules in my head I guess felt good. Some people swear by eating all raw, that is has helped them overcome bulimia and bingeing. It changes your taste buds. I rarely used spices and condiments when I ate raw. I really appreciated the texture and tastes of fruits and vegetables without doctoring them up, and when I would eat something more processed it felt too strong for me and just bla!

I don't know what other advice I can give you, but I will cheer you on and just say that I am glad you chose the vegan path for whatever reason!

Yes, Sir!
I am finding that I prefer to eat so much fruit that I cannot lose weight unless I find a way to moderate raw fruit! I will sit and eat 10-15 ripe bananas at a sitting; snack on a box of them all day; blend them into sorbets and eat chocolate, blueberry, raspberry and strawberry sorbets until I gain weight! So now I'm finding ways to restrict raw fruits, baked and boiled high-carbohydrate veggies, like winter squash, yams, etc. in order to lose weight. At the same time, I'm trying to eat more and more greens and low-carbohydrate, low-glycemic foods. So today I'm 1). renouncing SAD; 2). limiting seeds, nuts, fruits, beans and grains; and, 3) eating lots of salads. I steam some veggies and eat some raw. I need to have a definite structure; limits, or some way to keep from channeling my spiritual hunger into food!


That's the problem with me! I have habitually used food as a way to satisfy my spiritual hunger; cope with my emotional problems, and satisfy my desires, wants and needs for pleasure, ease and comfort: I'm an animal and I wish I were a spiritual being--like Buddha was!


So I believe my next experiment must be in the area of Buddhism. I need to end this romance I still have with AA and 12-Step programs and get into Buddhism. I think that my ideal support group is not out there--so I need to build it myself!


I would like to be able to use computers, telephones, Skype and modern technology to build my support group, but I'm not a technical person! Sadly, I'm a homeless, unemployed, loner. That's why it is so hard for me to let go of AA. AA was made for me--except they eat too much ice cream and die sober from cancer, diabetes and heart disease. But I don't want to hang around for that part of it!


So I think the answer for me is to build my own support group...or die trying!
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#15 Old 08-17-2015, 11:40 AM
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Bipolar Here!

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I actually enjoy the taste of celery, especially with some hummus or peanut butter. If you don't like celery, don't force yourself to eat it. Eat what you like within the realm of your new diet and it will be much easier. I also have a bit of a sugar addiction which is why I gained weight in the first place. Now I'm only buying v. chocolate when I'm under quite a bit of stress as I feel eating a bit of sugar is better than throwing things (unfortunately I'm bipolar 1 so this can happen from time to time if I'm under too much stress). If cutting out sugar is what you need to do then go for it! If you're eating partly because you're bored, try spending your spare time on the forums here, on research, or a hobby. I've found that I have to cook most of my meals myself now and it takes up so much time looking up recipes, altering them, shopping for fresh ingredients, then cooking, that I don't get bored enough to munch when I'm not hungry. And this is after only 2 weeks of veganism! That being said, I have fun cooking so spending so much time on it every day doesn't bother me.

I'm glad you're exercising, it's almost always a healthy choice. I myself joined a martial arts dojo near me because I find regular working out too boring to stay dedicated.

My problem is that there are so many things that I like that if I eat them all I will become a fat, diabetic, cancer patient, with a history of heart attacks! I can't eat sugar at all because I'm always under stress, or I'm always lonely, bored and hungry for "something," so I wind up eating everything. I'm basically bipolar and I use food to cope with reality. I use food to satisfy my wants that I can't satisfy any other way. I use food for the comfort, pleasure and satisfaction that I can't seem to get out of life!


I try to console myself by puttering around the apartment, cooking, cleaning, washing dishes and typing on these boards...but there still seems to be something missing, and I usually wind up trying to satisfy that "hunger" with food. And I'm bipolar, so there is always some emotional problem to eat food over.


I'm trying to take up some of this time, and drain off some of this stress, hunger and desire by going to the YMCA to work out, but that still leaves me isolated, frustrated, unfulfilled, fat, lonely and bored. As I've been discussing on another thread, I believe my basic problem is spiritual!
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#16 Old 08-17-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
My problem is that there are so many things that I like that if I eat them all I will become a fat, diabetic, cancer patient, with a history of heart attacks! I can't eat sugar at all because I'm always under stress, or I'm always lonely, bored and hungry for "something," so I wind up eating everything. I'm basically bipolar and I use food to cope with reality. I use food to satisfy my wants that I can't satisfy any other way. I use food for the comfort, pleasure and satisfaction that I can't seem to get out of life!


I try to console myself by puttering around the apartment, cooking, cleaning, washing dishes and typing on these boards...but there still seems to be something missing, and I usually wind up trying to satisfy that "hunger" with food. And I'm bipolar, so there is always some emotional problem to eat food over.


I'm trying to take up some of this time, and drain off some of this stress, hunger and desire by going to the YMCA to work out, but that still leaves me isolated, frustrated, unfulfilled, fat, lonely and bored. As I've been discussing on another thread, I believe my basic problem is spiritual!
Are you on any meds or in therapy to help you control your BP? Is that option available to you? That might help regulate your emotions and therefore some of your uncontrolled eating. Other than that, all I can say is that I've had little experience with Buddhism so I can't tell you much on that front (I just like the quotes that come out of Buddhism). If you feel like that will help you, go for it.

Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
-Buddha
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#17 Old 08-21-2015, 11:44 AM
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Congrats that you managed to stop drinking and are trying to improve all your health symptoms. We discovered my dad had cancer a few months ago and I wish I could get him to do what you've done. But he has a total addiction to meat and refuses to do anything about his health issues, taking the "they'll cut out my cancer with surgery and radiation and then I'll be healthy and able to gorge myself out again on meat and junk food route." Sad.

It's disappointing to hear that your AA group got you to basically replace one addiction (alcohol) with another (food, specifically comfort food). That surprises me, since the little I know about AA leads me to believe that the group is very savvy about addictions and what causes them.

You mention having to give up all of your comfort foods as a vegan. I haven't read the entire thread yet, so I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but you might want to check out the whole-foods plant-based (WFPB) vegan diet. This is a diet that emphasizes whole foods (whole grains, legume, vegetables and fruits) and avoids added oils and highly processed foods, though some of the tenants of the WFPB diet do allow whole plant fats (like olives rather than the olive oil, avocado, nuts and seeds).

The one that I'm actually doing is by John McDougall (www.drmcdougall.com). His plan emphasizes a starch-based eating (i.e., making whole grains, beans and potatoes the center of your meals along with vegetables and fruits), but his plan is pretty much no added fats (though the regular plan does allow for added whole fat foods sparingly). If you're looking for comfort food, his plan is definitely emphasizing that and people with multiple health issues have had some great success with it. There's a page about success stories on his website that you might want to look at.

It's definitely not an easy plan but I'm really enjoying it so far. He also has a great message board and lots of free information on his site, including a 12 day menu plan to get you started.

Djuna
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#18 Old 08-21-2015, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan98036 View Post
My problem is that there are so many things that I like that if I eat them all I will become a fat, diabetic, cancer patient, with a history of heart attacks! I can't eat sugar at all because I'm always under stress, or I'm always lonely, bored and hungry for "something," so I wind up eating everything. I'm basically bipolar and I use food to cope with reality. I use food to satisfy my wants that I can't satisfy any other way. I use food for the comfort, pleasure and satisfaction that I can't seem to get out of life!


I try to console myself by puttering around the apartment, cooking, cleaning, washing dishes and typing on these boards...but there still seems to be something missing, and I usually wind up trying to satisfy that "hunger" with food. And I'm bipolar, so there is always some emotional problem to eat food over.


I'm trying to take up some of this time, and drain off some of this stress, hunger and desire by going to the YMCA to work out, but that still leaves me isolated, frustrated, unfulfilled, fat, lonely and bored. As I've been discussing on another thread, I believe my basic problem is spiritual!
Hi, I'm a Buddhist. I meditate and practice yoga daily. I feel so much less anxious and depressed than I did before I made these daily practices. The trick is to do them when you are not feeling bad, and there is a sort of cumulative effect. Here is a site with free downloadable guided meditations. Fun and useful.
http://www.chopra.com/ccl/guided-meditations

Also, check your meetup.com in your area for Buddhist, meditation, veg, etc meetups.
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#19 Old 08-23-2015, 03:45 PM
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That's incredible what you've achieved so far. First things first though, don't get too focused on the weight loss - if you're body is getting fit again weight loss will simply be a side effect of you getting healthier. Next is to plan plan plan and PLAN!

Reserve some time each week to plan out your meals and exercise. Whenever I do this it helps so much, i typically do 3 meals a day, 2 snacks a day and an extra snack (aka - emergency snack, just in case!) Also don't make it the same foods everyday as it can get pretty boring then. The more fresh fruit and veg the better Never underestimate the power of a plan :P
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#20 Old 08-24-2015, 10:14 AM
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Medications are poison, aren't they?

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Originally Posted by Radharc View Post
Are you on any meds or in therapy to help you control your BP? Is that option available to you? That might help regulate your emotions and therefore some of your uncontrolled eating. Other than that, all I can say is that I've had little experience with Buddhism so I can't tell you much on that front (I just like the quotes that come out of Buddhism). If you feel like that will help you, go for it.
Hi Radharc,

Actually my doctor has recently offered me statin meds, but I told her I wish to get my cholesterol and B/P down with diet and exercise. With that, she threw up her hands and expressed disgust for my lack of faith in modern conventional medicine.

But I was on depacote 8 years ago for my bipolar mood disorder, and it did nothing for my bipolar mood disorder, but caused me to gain weight like crazy! I also had uncontrollable falls, headaches, muscle tremors and a slight laziness and depression (depacote is a CNS depressant). For those reasons I got off medications.

Then when I was diagnosed with cancer (paraprotienemias in my blood) I decided to get off all medications and stop all X-rays and go on a vegan diet. Within 6 months the paraprotienemias were no longer in my blood. I then asked my doctor, "Do I have cancer?" She said, "No."

That was pretty good evidence for me! Are you taking meds? Why? Do you have any side effects? Are they doing you any good?

Ron
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#21 Old 08-24-2015, 10:28 AM
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Thank you very kindly, Djuna! I will see you on DrMcDougall.com

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Originally Posted by djunamod View Post
Congrats that you managed to stop drinking and are trying to improve all your health symptoms. We discovered my dad had cancer a few months ago and I wish I could get him to do what you've done. But he has a total addiction to meat and refuses to do anything about his health issues, taking the "they'll cut out my cancer with surgery and radiation and then I'll be healthy and able to gorge myself out again on meat and junk food route." Sad.

It's disappointing to hear that your AA group got you to basically replace one addiction (alcohol) with another (food, specifically comfort food). That surprises me, since the little I know about AA leads me to believe that the group is very savvy about addictions and what causes them.

You mention having to give up all of your comfort foods as a vegan. I haven't read the entire thread yet, so I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but you might want to check out the whole-foods plant-based (WFPB) vegan diet. This is a diet that emphasizes whole foods (whole grains, legume, vegetables and fruits) and avoids added oils and highly processed foods, though some of the tenants of the WFPB diet do allow whole plant fats (like olives rather than the olive oil, avocado, nuts and seeds).

The one that I'm actually doing is by John McDougall (www.drmcdougall.com). His plan emphasizes a starch-based eating (i.e., making whole grains, beans and potatoes the center of your meals along with vegetables and fruits), but his plan is pretty much no added fats (though the regular plan does allow for added whole fat foods sparingly). If you're looking for comfort food, his plan is definitely emphasizing that and people with multiple health issues have had some great success with it. There's a page about success stories on his website that you might want to look at.

It's definitely not an easy plan but I'm really enjoying it so far. He also has a great message board and lots of free information on his site, including a 12 day menu plan to get you started.

Djuna
Djuna,

So sorry to hear about your dad! That "refusal" that you talk about is called "denial" when it is displayed by an alcoholic who refuses to stop drinking. Could you dad be in denial about his addiction to meat? I think that these alcoholics I'm talking about are also in denial about their addiction to meat, pizza, coffee, cigarettes, pastry, processed food, and on and on and on and on! These alcoholics help me to see that the food addiction is actually worse than all other addictions put together!

Does you dad know that those radiation treatments could damage his auto-immune system and he could die from a simple pneumonia infection? If he doesn't know that, I think you should tell him! Has he already started the radiation therapy? Get him to do research on this before he makes a life-and-death decision! He's you father! Don't let him kill himself!

And thank you for the information about DrMcDougal. I will check that out soon. I seem to have all I can manage to handle right now. Thank you so much.

Ron
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#22 Old 08-24-2015, 10:34 AM
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Buddhism and meditation

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Hi, I'm a Buddhist. I meditate and practice yoga daily. I feel so much less anxious and depressed than I did before I made these daily practices. The trick is to do them when you are not feeling bad, and there is a sort of cumulative effect. Here is a site with free downloadable guided meditations. Fun and useful.
http://www.chopra.com/ccl/guided-meditations

Also, check your meetup.com in your area for Buddhist, meditation, veg, etc meetups.
Thank you, LedBoots,

I will try that. Do you meditate by yourself, or in a group? How long does it take to work? I've tried it and I just feel stupid. That name, Chopra is familiar. Is she in Seattle? I think I've heard about her locally! Where are you, please?

Ron
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#23 Old 08-24-2015, 10:59 AM
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Plan? For what?

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That's incredible what you've achieved so far. First things first though, don't get too focused on the weight loss - if you're body is getting fit again weight loss will simply be a side effect of you getting healthier. Next is to plan plan plan and PLAN!

Reserve some time each week to plan out your meals and exercise. Whenever I do this it helps so much, i typically do 3 meals a day, 2 snacks a day and an extra snack (aka - emergency snack, just in case!) Also don't make it the same foods everyday as it can get pretty boring then. The more fresh fruit and veg the better Never underestimate the power of a plan :P
Thank you, sir,

I think your advice about not getting too focused on weight loss is very apropos. I have already done that and already seen the negative effects it has. I got so focused on weight loss that I couldn't think about anything else! I was a failure if I didn't lose a pound a day!

I don't like planning and I don't like recipes. Please tell me what possible good you get out of planning the future! Nothing ever comes out the way we plan, does it?

What I don't like about planning is that it is so complicated to use a recipe that has 13 ingredients because I have to go to the store to buy 13 ingredients, then after I follow the recipe I've got maybe 10 things left over! Now I have to plan what to do with 10 leftover ingredients and figure out how to fit them in with another recipe that calls for 6 more ingredients! Before long I've got greens that are yellow, mushrooms with fungus eating on them, bananas that are over-ripe, onions with black spots in them and apples that are eaten up with brown rot of some kind!

What I prefer is to "keep it simple." I just eat whatever I have left over. Last night I didn't plan anything. I opened the 'fridge and decided to have green beans because they were getting black around the edges; mushrooms because they had fungus on them, garlic because it was also getting old, onions because they had been sliced already and were wilting, and I wanted to use some black rice I had just bought.

So get this! I put all that stuff in a crock pot and turned it on low in the morning and had it for supper when I got back home! Do you call that planning? Is that what you mean?

Speaking of weight loss, are you losing weight eating 5 meals a day?

I'm not criticizing; I'm asking: How can you plan the future? How can you lose weight eating 5 meals a day?
Ron
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#24 Old 08-24-2015, 06:05 PM
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Thank you, sir,

I think your advice about not getting too focused on weight loss is very apropos. I have already done that and already seen the negative effects it has. I got so focused on weight loss that I couldn't think about anything else! I was a failure if I didn't lose a pound a day!

I don't like planning and I don't like recipes. Please tell me what possible good you get out of planning the future! Nothing ever comes out the way we plan, does it?

What I don't like about planning is that it is so complicated to use a recipe that has 13 ingredients because I have to go to the store to buy 13 ingredients, then after I follow the recipe I've got maybe 10 things left over! Now I have to plan what to do with 10 leftover ingredients and figure out how to fit them in with another recipe that calls for 6 more ingredients! Before long I've got greens that are yellow, mushrooms with fungus eating on them, bananas that are over-ripe, onions with black spots in them and apples that are eaten up with brown rot of some kind!

What I prefer is to "keep it simple." I just eat whatever I have left over. Last night I didn't plan anything. I opened the 'fridge and decided to have green beans because they were getting black around the edges; mushrooms because they had fungus on them, garlic because it was also getting old, onions because they had been sliced already and were wilting, and I wanted to use some black rice I had just bought.

So get this! I put all that stuff in a crock pot and turned it on low in the morning and had it for supper when I got back home! Do you call that planning? Is that what you mean?

Speaking of weight loss, are you losing weight eating 5 meals a day?

I'm not criticizing; I'm asking: How can you plan the future? How can you lose weight eating 5 meals a day?
Ron
Ok well, for me planning works as it means i know exactly what i'm eating for the week (i usually plan out everything on a friday). I generally only buy food that i can use for a variety recipes, so things like beans, lentils, sweet potatoes ect - and if what i have in doesn't fit the recipe i adapt it to what i do have in. I'm a student as well so only spend roughly £15 a week on food, and i tend to pick 3 vegetables and 3 fruits for the week. If you want i could give you some simple meal ideas?

I have never really been into planning previously as it felt like i was making my life rigid, but it honestly has helped me in so many ways. When i plan my meals i save money, time and successfully lose weight each week. It can also be fun if you get into it, especially if i plan favorite meals on certain days it gives me food to look forward to. It's not something you'd have to do forever, it just can help set up a routine. A good routine always helps. I mean you don't have to make a plan like this, but just coming from my experience (had a LOT of trouble with weight and unfortunately bulimia) I feel like I know what is the most effective when it comes to getting to a healthy weight and staying there


Also, I wouldn't class myself as having 5 meals a day - i definitely have 3 meals a day and 2 snacks (the snacks aren't meals) they are sometimes something like an apple, or a piece of toast. And yes i still lose weight i have been losing weight at a slow rate but it is happening - around 50 pounds over the course of the past 6 months. One thing i rarely ever do now is comfort eat, or snack on something unplanned. I know what i can have that day and i stick to it. The snacks in between are sometimes almost my own controlled "binges" and it personally helps me so much. It's not something you'd have to do.

Hope this explained a few things
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#25 Old 08-25-2015, 05:13 AM
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Hi Radharc,

Actually my doctor has recently offered me statin meds, but I told her I wish to get my cholesterol and B/P down with diet and exercise. With that, she threw up her hands and expressed disgust for my lack of faith in modern conventional medicine.

But I was on depacote 8 years ago for my bipolar mood disorder, and it did nothing for my bipolar mood disorder, but caused me to gain weight like crazy! I also had uncontrollable falls, headaches, muscle tremors and a slight laziness and depression (depacote is a CNS depressant). For those reasons I got off medications.

Then when I was diagnosed with cancer (paraprotienemias in my blood) I decided to get off all medications and stop all X-rays and go on a vegan diet. Within 6 months the paraprotienemias were no longer in my blood. I then asked my doctor, "Do I have cancer?" She said, "No."

That was pretty good evidence for me! Are you taking meds? Why? Do you have any side effects? Are they doing you any good?
Ron
I feel like a lot of doctors are too eager to hand out prescriptions. They should know the benefits of a healthy diet and exercise and encourage it before meds, in my opinion.

As for BP, I do take meds, but it's a cocktail of four (including Depakote) meant to treat Bipolar and Anxiety. The only side effect that I have had on these four is dizziness the first couple of days and a feeling of being 'off' somehow when I miss a dose. I often wish I could just stop taking the pills, but then I think of how I feel now -good, but not perfect- and how I felt before meds -suicidal and constantly anxious of every situation you can think of- and I just keep taking them. Like you, though, I've had some bad meds combined with a bad doctor. I was on Luvox CR which had the severe side effect of making me sleep all day and made me extremely apathetic. The doctor failed to warn me that I needed to take the medicine at night and I was so out of it all the time that I never realized that sleeping all day was wrong and an obvious side effect of this medication. Unfortunately that is how I failed three semesters of college. Luckily I got off the med and stopped seeing that doctor so my grades picked up again and I got my degree just fine. (In the doctor's defense, I'm sure she thought she told me to take it at night, plus I hadn't been diagnosed with Bipolar 1 or Anxiety yet. We just thought I had Major Depressive Disorder.

I'm not a doctor, but if you feel better without the meds then don't take them. But if changing to veganism isn't working for your bipolar disorder, then I still suggest finding a Psychiatrist and just telling that doctor that you would prefer to take as few meds as possible and that you don't like Depakote. Explain the side effects you had and the doctor should be able to work with you.

Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
-Buddha
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#26 Old 08-25-2015, 05:17 PM
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Thank you, LedBoots,

I will try that. Do you meditate by yourself, or in a group? How long does it take to work? I've tried it and I just feel stupid. That name, Chopra is familiar. Is she in Seattle? I think I've heard about her locally! Where are you, please?

Ron
Hi Ron. I usually meditate by myself, but love to in a group as well. There are a few meetups near me where people meditate, some Buddhist some not. I am in Tampa Florida, but these kinds of groups are everywhere.

I know what you mean about feeling silly when trying to meditate. All the thoughts come in and time seems to go slowly. Try a very short guided meditation at first, like 5 or 10 minutes. Some have music and pictures; there are lots on YouTube and everywhere.

You said Seattle? Check this: http://meditation.meetup.com/cities/us/wa/seattle/
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#27 Old 08-26-2015, 03:08 PM
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"Plans" mean that I have go get up at a certain time, etc.

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Originally Posted by lookforstars View Post
Ok well, for me planning works as it means i know exactly what i'm eating for the week (i usually plan out everything on a friday). I generally only buy food that i can use for a variety recipes, so things like beans, lentils, sweet potatoes ect - and if what i have in doesn't fit the recipe i adapt it to what i do have in. I'm a student as well so only spend roughly £15 a week on food, and i tend to pick 3 vegetables and 3 fruits for the week. If you want i could give you some simple meal ideas?

I have never really been into planning previously as it felt like i was making my life rigid, but it honestly has helped me in so many ways. When i plan my meals i save money, time and successfully lose weight each week. It can also be fun if you get into it, especially if i plan favorite meals on certain days it gives me food to look forward to. It's not something you'd have to do forever, it just can help set up a routine. A good routine always helps. I mean you don't have to make a plan like this, but just coming from my experience (had a LOT of trouble with weight and unfortunately bulimia) I feel like I know what is the most effective when it comes to getting to a healthy weight and staying there


Also, I wouldn't class myself as having 5 meals a day - i definitely have 3 meals a day and 2 snacks (the snacks aren't meals) they are sometimes something like an apple, or a piece of toast. And yes i still lose weight i have been losing weight at a slow rate but it is happening - around 50 pounds over the course of the past 6 months. One thing i rarely ever do now is comfort eat, or snack on something unplanned. I know what i can have that day and i stick to it. The snacks in between are sometimes almost my own controlled "binges" and it personally helps me so much. It's not something you'd have to do.

Hope this explained a few things
When I was younger I used to try to live by a plan, and that did make my life seem more rigid. It also threw everything off if something that I could not control didn't go the way I planned, and that threw my plan off for the rest of the day! I was always, always frustrated!

However, 50 lbs in 6 months is a good weight loss. What if I just planned one meal a day, say for lunch? Do you have any recipes or suggestions I could use for lunch?

I thought it was good to eat more than just three veggies! I thought I'm supposed to get a wide variety of fruits and veggies, beans and grains, greens, tomatoes, onions, mushrooms, berries, melons, etc.

That's a pretty complicated plan, don't you agree? What if the cantaloupe doesn't "ripen" at the rate I "planned"? What if the papaya gets a fungus on it? In that case I would need to trash the plan and eat the fruit before it spoils, right? How can I plan 15 - 20 things at once and have everything go as planned?

What if I just wake up when I want; go to the store when I'm hungry, and buy what I want? That way I don't have to worry whether it rains or snows; whether I sleep late or early; whether I feel good or bad....

Are you a technical person? An engineer? You sound like one...but a 50-pound weight loss in 6 months is good! But what if I can't control my own life?

Ron

However
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#28 Old 08-26-2015, 03:22 PM
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Wow! Seattle!

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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
Hi Ron. I usually meditate by myself, but love to in a group as well. There are a few meetups near me where people meditate, some Buddhist some not. I am in Tampa Florida, but these kinds of groups are everywhere.

I know what you mean about feeling silly when trying to meditate. All the thoughts come in and time seems to go slowly. Try a very short guided meditation at first, like 5 or 10 minutes. Some have music and pictures; there are lots on YouTube and everywhere.

You said Seattle? Check this: http://meditation.meetup.com/cities/us/wa/seattle/
Wow! Looks like Seattle is the place to be if I want to be a Buddhist! I have actually heard of the Shambala meditation and I think it is in Ballard, North of Seattle. I don't have a car, but I think I can get there on the bus.

I hope to let you know how it went next week

I also have a question about my mantra. I went through a stressful time a couple of years ago and found that a very simple mantra could clear my mind and lower my stress level. However, over the months it has evolved to a thing that sort of captures my mind and I believe it is now causing mindLESSness. For example, my mantra starts involuntarily and I lay my sunglasses down, then I can't find my sunglasses three minutes later!

Or perhaps I am actually becoming demented! I am 71 y/o and it could be that this mindlessness and mantra are a deterioration of my mind, leading to dementia!

My mantra is simple: "Dump-diddy-dump-diddy-dump-diddy-dump.... Dump-diddy-dump-diddy-dump-diddy-dum.... Etc....

The brain is very tricky! What do you do?
Ron
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#29 Old 08-26-2015, 03:35 PM
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Answer This!

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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
Hi Ron. I usually meditate by myself, but love to in a group as well. There are a few meetups near me where people meditate, some Buddhist some not. I am in Tampa Florida, but these kinds of groups are everywhere.

I know what you mean about feeling silly when trying to meditate. All the thoughts come in and time seems to go slowly. Try a very short guided meditation at first, like 5 or 10 minutes. Some have music and pictures; there are lots on YouTube and everywhere.

You said Seattle? Check this: http://meditation.meetup.com/cities/us/wa/seattle/
I have begun studying Buddhism with a reading of the Dhammapada. But I've gotten stuck on Chapter 16: "Pleasure." What do you make of this....

2). "Let no one ever cling to what is pleasant and what is unpleasant. Otherwise, not to see what is pleasant is painful, and it is painful to see what is unpleasant.

3). "Therefore let no one be attached to anything. Loss of the beloved is evil. Those who are attached to nothing and hate nothing have no fetters."

He seems to be saying that it's okay if I eat pizza, drink beer, lose my job, divorce my wife, shoot the next person who knocks on my door...let them drop the bomb and walk in front of a bus!

It would seem that I must be attached to life, health, money, material things, self-preservation, survival, etc. Otherwise, I might think I could travel to Syria and start a better life!

Or perhaps he is saying that I must seek refuge in the Dharma and let everything else take its course without worrying about anything.

Ron
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#30 Old 08-26-2015, 03:49 PM
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More problems that way also!

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Originally Posted by Radharc View Post
I feel like a lot of doctors are too eager to hand out prescriptions. They should know the benefits of a healthy diet and exercise and encourage it before meds, in my opinion.

As for BP, I do take meds, but it's a cocktail of four (including Depakote) meant to treat Bipolar and Anxiety. The only side effect that I have had on these four is dizziness the first couple of days and a feeling of being 'off' somehow when I miss a dose. I often wish I could just stop taking the pills, but then I think of how I feel now -good, but not perfect- and how I felt before meds -suicidal and constantly anxious of every situation you can think of- and I just keep taking them. Like you, though, I've had some bad meds combined with a bad doctor. I was on Luvox CR which had the severe side effect of making me sleep all day and made me extremely apathetic. The doctor failed to warn me that I needed to take the medicine at night and I was so out of it all the time that I never realized that sleeping all day was wrong and an obvious side effect of this medication. Unfortunately that is how I failed three semesters of college. Luckily I got off the med and stopped seeing that doctor so my grades picked up again and I got my degree just fine. (In the doctor's defense, I'm sure she thought she told me to take it at night, plus I hadn't been diagnosed with Bipolar 1 or Anxiety yet. We just thought I had Major Depressive Disorder.

I'm not a doctor, but if you feel better without the meds then don't take them. But if changing to veganism isn't working for your bipolar disorder, then I still suggest finding a Psychiatrist and just telling that doctor that you would prefer to take as few meds as possible and that you don't like Depakote. Explain the side effects you had and the doctor should be able to work with you.
Well, I tried that and got on so many meds, from so many doctors, for so many problems--that I developed cancer, diabetes and heart disease! I decided that chemo-therapy was not going to help the situation; that depacote was causing my weight gain and that was causing lots of other problems, and that the medication and all the X-rays for my arthritis were actually causing the paraproteinemias in my blood, which my doctor diagnosed as an indication of cancer!

So I am feeling best by making a lifestyle change involving diet, exercise, sleep and social support! But I got into AA to help me quit drinking and that caused all kinds of problems with my vegan lifestyle, because those alcoholics trade their addiction for alcohol to a dependence upon "comfort food," which causes all the obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases in the first place!

I'm beginning to think that the best way to live is to be a recluse and renounce all this crazy stuff that we call "society." Society is what is causing all the problems! If I could live in the woods, by a clean stream and eat organic food out of my own garden, then I wouldn't have all these problems--caused by society!

In fact, I'm trying to live that way in a 1-br apt. in the middle of Lynnwood WA! And I think it's working, if I could just stay away from all the poisons that society puts out there to make money...like alcohol, sugar, medications, churches, politics, crazy people...etc., etc., etc. Know what I mean?
Ron
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