If I consider Soy as bad, should I consider Tofu as bad too? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-02-2015, 12:08 AM
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If I consider Soy as bad, should I consider Tofu as bad too?

I have heard that most of the soy can be very unhealthy. Specially for men. Is Tofu the same?

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#2 Old 08-02-2015, 02:15 AM
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I have heard that most of the soy can be very unhealthy. Specially for men. Is Tofu the same?

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She includes a link to Westin Price foundation, a shill for the meat and dairy industries. Soy is perfectly healthy to eat, including soy milk and tofu.

The GMO soy is mostly grown as animal feed.
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#3 Old 08-02-2015, 03:04 AM
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There's nothing wrong with soy. You're fine.
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#4 Old 08-02-2015, 05:37 AM
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There maybe nothing is wrong with soy. But many people say that there is a lot of things wrong with genetically modified cheap soy (and we always find them). I was wondering if Tofu is one of the good soy.

Some people say it is perfectly healthy. Some people say it is very dangerous on the long run or if used in a large amount.

It is also known to increase Estrogen levels and decrease the testosterone levels in men.
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#5 Old 08-02-2015, 05:55 AM
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There maybe nothing is wrong with soy. But many people say that there is a lot of things wrong with genetically modified cheap soy (and we always find them). I was wondering if Tofu is one of the good soy.

Some people say it is perfectly healthy. Some people say it is very dangerous on the long run or if used in a large amount.

It is also known to increase Estrogen levels and decrease the testosterone levels in men.
If it did, that'd be really strange....given that tofu/soy doesn't contain Estrogen. Estrogen is something animals have, not plants. Plants have something that's like estrogen, but so far hasn't been proven to cause cancer or breasts.

Whether you choose to consume GMO tofu/soy is up to you. But if you're eating animals, then you don't know what they're eating, so you could still be consuming it.

You're right in that 'some people' do say it's very dangerous and 'some people' say it's perfectly healthy. What I like to do, is look at the fact that a lot of the people telling me it's healthy are health care professionals and governments who have no vested interest in me continuing to eat animals, rather than soy. A lot of the people telling me it's not healthy think that it can make men grow boobs.
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#6 Old 08-02-2015, 06:26 AM
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So you can do your own research and decide for yourself based on scientific studies and data not produced from biased sources, here is some information that may help you understand the issues better:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/68....full.pdf+html
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/....full.pdf+html

http://www.zerobreastcancer.org/rese..._genistein.pdf
http://www.bcerc.org/COTCpubs/BCERC....n_Daidzein.pdf

Soy contains the following isoflavins (phytoestrogens) that are what is in question: genistain, daidzein. See the fact sheets on these above. Other plant foods also contain these phytoestrogens but to a much smaller extent. And even various forms of soy contain amounts of these compounds that differ widely. There are tables in the factsheets that show what foods contain what amounts. These compounds are also mentioned in the two studies I listed above. Both protective/benificial effects and potentiallly harmful/risk effects have been studied and the harmful effects are interestingly inconclusive and studies are ongoing. Hence the "fear" surrounding soy.

For me personally, I find that consuming soy in moderation has too many benefits to ignore and it has not caused me any problems in the many years that I have consumed it as long as I do it in moderation. When I consumed soymilk daily years ago, my thyroid became more hypo (I already had hypothyroidism and have for 26 years, long before consuming soy) so I do keep my intake moderate and not daily. This means I rarely use Earth Balance butter (and for other reasons I avoid it as well), only use Ezekiel Bread in moderation since it also contains soy, make sure my herbal teas don't have soy in them etc. I use soy free Just Mayo on the rare occasion I use vegan mayo (most often I make my own mayo from nuts/vinegar, turmeric, coconut milk). But i do consume tofu and tempeh a few times each week, an occasional cliff bar (maybe a few times a month), an occasional faux meat product (Beyond Meat, Veggie Burgers etc) maybe once a month. I may use braggs or tamari on occasion. Soy foods in organic non GMO form contain complete proteins, iron, calcium, and other beneficial nutrients. And they provide variety in my diet. Still they are not a staple.

I also find it interesting that many factory farmed and even smaller farmed animals are fed a diet of highly processed gmo soy because it is a cheap food source. Farmed fish are also fed soy. And many farm animals and milk products are found to contain other estrogenic like hormones/steriods that are used to increase production in farm animals. Yet people aren't showing nearly as much concern over these (though small groups of people are) though there has been a lot of science showing the cancerous and other harmful effects of these compounds in animal foods. Animals themselves produce hormones naturally in response to pregnancy etc when producing milk. What about the effect of these compounds on humans?

Also, highly processed gmo soy is found in crackers, mayonnaise, commercial breads, commercial desserts, processed packaged foods like stove top stuffing, etc.

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#7 Old 08-02-2015, 06:59 AM
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Here is some pretty comprehensive reading about soy and its health effects, from vegan registered dietitian Jack Norris: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth

I don't see any reason to avoid the amounts of soy that people normally consume.

BTW, the article you linked to has a number of red flags. First, consider that the author is a food writer, not a registered dietitian or other health professional who is qualified to give diet advice. A big red flag is the link to the Weston A. Price foundation -- here is a criticism of this organization: http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...isticdent.html - or just google it to find many other criticisms.

The first statement in the article is misleading, too -- soy can be GMO (and I do not buy into the fear regarding GMOs, anyway), but most of the GMO soy that is out there is actually used for animal feed. If you buy tofu or tempeh, the vast majority is labeled organic and non-GMO. It is really hard to find any without these labels.
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#8 Old 08-02-2015, 07:15 AM
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the majority of soybeans are GMO--and they're fed to animals for meat, and highly processed to add as cheap fillers.
It's actually not easy to find GMO soy in minimally processed foods such as soy milk, tofu, tempeh or even most other products where soy is a large percentage.
List a commercial soy milk that isn't listed as NON-GMO. All organics are non-gmo, but non-gmo is not necessarily organic.I've also never seen whole soybeans sold for human consumption that were gmo

I've taken on every article saying soy is evil and they're either someone without any references, or funded by the meat/dairy industry. Weston Price, Mercola are in the lead for such 'research'

And tofu is simply soymilk that has natural coagulants added that seperate the protein solids from the liquid. ANd soy milk is just soy beans that are cooked and ground in water, then strained. I have a soy milk machine and that's all
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#9 Old 08-02-2015, 07:20 AM
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I just checked that link. The 'writer' says she looks for organic ----wait----NATTO!!!
If anyone has ever tried natto that hasn't grown up with it, you'll know what I really find this laughable. It's more of an 'acquired taste" than anything I've ever put on my tongue. Like someone ate really spoiled beans, then threw them up right away and the vomit then was allowed to spoil. Yeah, no, I don't think so.
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#10 Old 08-02-2015, 07:29 AM
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What do you think about Soy meat?

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#11 Old 08-02-2015, 07:39 AM
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I dont mind soy at all, and I give my preschool aged daughter chocolate soymilk quite often.

I do keep my servings of soy to a normal level, like 2-3 servings a day, and some days I have none at all.

As for the soy products we use in our home- soynut butter (our child has a peanut allergy), shelf stable tofu, TVP (like the soy nuggets you posted above) and less often, boca burgers and yves good dogs.

a serving of soy products-

3 oz of tofu or 1 boca burger or 8oz soymilk. So I may have soymilk with my cereal at breakfast, and a boca burger for lunch. That's be it for me for my daily soy though, and I'd use beans or other protien sources for the rest of my meals.
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#12 Old 08-02-2015, 07:41 AM
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I'm guessing that's TVP? it lasts forever if kept dry. It's a staple in emergency rations. I still have the bag i bought when i first quit meat! I don't like it much, but then I never tried. I remember the chuncks being a really off putting texture, kinda like cheap ground meat? It's cheap and keeps, and certainly more processed than tofu or tempeh. I don't know if it's better for you than something like frozen BOca chik'n though. I love that!
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#13 Old 08-02-2015, 07:42 AM
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Thanks people!
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#14 Old 08-02-2015, 07:43 AM
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i really like TVP, it makes great tacos and sloppy joes. It also slips into soups and chili without any effort. For me its a win, plus, its supa-dupa-cheap, which I appreciate!
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#15 Old 08-02-2015, 07:44 AM
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what about this?

I am pretty sure that the Soy is given to woman in on menopause to balance their estrogen levels. Someone referred a very credible book as the source.


Is this "mimicking estrogen"(found on the link I gave) thing also not true?
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#16 Old 08-02-2015, 07:49 AM
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I have heard of women taking higher doses of isoflavones (from soy) via supplements to help with menopause. the amount of isoflavones you get concentrated in a supplement is far more than what you'd get by eating a normal amount of soy products daily.

There is no perfect food BTW, we gotta eat a little of all the food groups. Soy is a great addition to your list of veggie proteins. its is by no means the perfect or only, or best source of protien however.
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#17 Old 08-02-2015, 07:51 AM
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what about this?

I am pretty sure that the Soy is given to woman in on menopause to balance their estrogen levels. Someone referred a very credible book as the source.


Is this "mimicking estrogen"(found on the link I gave) thing also not true?
Soy was promoted for this between 5 and 10 years ago, but it actually didn't work well for preventing hot flashes. The article that I linked to above talks about the potential effects on hormone activity.

BTW, which "very credible" book was it? Just because it's a book doesn't mean it's a credible source.
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#18 Old 08-02-2015, 07:54 AM
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BTW- you totally dont have to eat soy at all if you dont want to. eat beans, peas, lentils, protien powders, nuts, etc etc etc
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#19 Old 08-02-2015, 08:00 AM
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I have heard that most of the soy can be very unhealthy. Specially for men. Is Tofu the same?

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My bf has been vegan for much longer than I have and he eats soy tofu and soy products nearly everyday. He hasnt man boobs or had any ill effects. I eat a lot of soy too I'm good.
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#20 Old 08-02-2015, 08:33 AM
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I believe we all have our own unique biochemistry and what may be harmful to one is a non issue to another. I don't know that soy is so bad it's only good as an "industrial material" as some people claim, but I also don't buy into it being a health food either. One of those 'foods' that probably is best not to consume a whole lot of until we understand more about it.

I personally can eat the occasional soy product with no issues, but if I consume it regularly, it does cause me problems (PMS-like symptoms, but not related to my period and worsens them around/on my period). It always has, ever since I was a new vegetarian and began eating tons of soy like most new vegetarians. I have actually wondered for years if consuming excessive amounts of soy all of a sudden is what triggered me to get my period at a very young age (10) because it happened within months of going veg. I have had other significant issues with high doses of hormone-altering substances besides soy too, so I may be especially sensitive to the effects, even of low-level hormone disruptors. I have not regularly consumed soy for many years after figuring out it did negatively affect me, and over the years discovered there are many excellent (homemade) alternatives to soy products for those of us who do have a sensitivity to it or simply want to avoid it "in case". Much of what you can buy as a heavily processed, preservative and additive laden soy product in the stores (i.e. the faux meats and cheeses ext...) you can make a alternative at home using nuts, seeds, beans, eggplant, cauliflower, mushrooms, potatoes (and I'm sure there are more I haven't yet discovered!). You can still make burgers, breakfast patties/sausages, meat(less)balls, meat(less) loaf, buffalo "wings", nuggets, ground meat alternatives ect... without soy, without wheat, from scratch at home. You just have to be creative, and as I tell anyone who wants to be veg or vegan, LEARN TO COOK (or prepare your own food)! While soy may be ok in small doses for most people, it is by no means necessary to a healthy or varied vegetarian or vegan diet!
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#21 Old 08-02-2015, 08:16 PM
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Soy is fine to eat. Some people harp on about how soy contains sex hormones and how this can make some men less fertile (blah blah). Actually the hormone content of cow's milk/ flesh will be much higher than that of soy due to exogenous hormone administration (i.e. farmers give animals hormones). Also farm animals eat a lot of soy so any hormones in their food will accumulate in their bodies in higher concentrations. Bottom line, soy is going to cause less hormone issues than cow's milk/ flesh etc.
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#22 Old 08-02-2015, 10:16 PM
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It depends. If you are allergic to soy, then it's bad. My BIL had a severe reaction to soy milk a few years ago (5 hours in the hospital er thinking he was having a heart attack ). I tend not to use soy, just because of that. I've use Hemp Tofu once, with good success. If you don't have any ill effects, it's all right. People in Asia have eaten soy for millenia with no ill effects at all. I hope this helps.
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#23 Old 08-03-2015, 04:39 PM
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@SilverCat , do you post to paleo and other sites that promote meat, dairy and egg consumption? Do you ask what they think of the majority of health research proving the health risks of eating animal products? Question all the footnoted research in Forks over Knives, China study, Caldwyn esselstyns documented heart disease reversal (of which I am witness to)?

I'm not saying eating certain meats are unhealthy, but that seems to hold more truth than saying beans are unhealthy
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Last edited by silva; 08-03-2015 at 04:40 PM. Reason: meant to post in the "are beans unhealthy" thread
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#24 Old 08-03-2015, 08:50 PM
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@SilverCat , do you post to paleo and other sites that promote meat, dairy and egg consumption? Do you ask what they think of the majority of health research proving the health risks of eating animal products? Question all the footnoted research in Forks over Knives, China study, Caldwyn esselstyns documented heart disease reversal (of which I am witness to)?

I'm not saying eating certain meats are unhealthy, but that seems to hold more truth than saying beans are unhealthy
From what I have seen on paleo/keto/super low carb sites are claims that the china study has cherry picked data, that heart disease reversal through diet has never been duplicated, and that ancel keyes falsified data and ignored data when correlating cholesterol with heart disease, and on the more WAPF side of things- animal foods are essential for proper nutritional and over all health. Also that modern vegetable oils are pro-inflammatory and cause all sorts of problems.

Now I dont know what they base all that on, and there is probably truth in there somewhere.

What I do know is that eating a diet based on plants seems to have overwhelmingly good results. From Mediterranean style diets to starch based asian style diets. Low fat, high fat, whatever. It seems we run well on plants.
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#25 Old 08-05-2015, 07:01 PM
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you know what has actual estrogen? Cows and chickens. heh heh.
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#26 Old 08-05-2015, 07:11 PM
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There's nothing wrong with soy. Soy in its whole form in tofu or Seitan, etc. is very beneficial for you. The problem arises when you Watson isolated protein, which is found in processed foods and protein powders. That stuff is more likely to cause damage because it's been taken out of its normal form. It's like HF corn syrup. It's from corn, but corn isn't the enemy (not that there's anything wrong with corn syrup since it's essentially sugar). Anything that's isolated like that should be avoided, like whey, which comes from cows milk.
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#27 Old 08-05-2015, 07:12 PM
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I suggest you muscle test or have a natural doctor muscle test to answer your question about soy since it is a known allergen. Some people can handle it just fine and others cannot handle any (like me). Originally people ate fermented forms of soy like Tempeh and Miso which can have amazing health effects including curing radiation sickness. But unfortunetly Tofu is not fermented. The fermenting process can eliminate most if not all of the mycotoxins, enzyme inhibitors, nutrient and protein blockers that are in unfermented soy beans. Every-body is different so ask your body what it wants.
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#28 Old 08-06-2015, 01:32 AM
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So grateful I can eat soy without any issues. I love tofu. It's a wonder food for me.


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#29 Old 08-06-2015, 03:16 AM
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So grateful I can eat soy without any issues. I love tofu. It's a wonder food for me.


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I had trouble with it at first, but I was determined to keep trying. I used to get terrible stomach cramps when I would consume tofu, but not any other soy. I could handle tempeh fine, soymilk fine in moderation, miso, etc. I avoided tofu for over two years. Then one day I was at a healthfood store and saw sprouted tofu and it peeked my interest. So I bought some and tried it in a simple tofu vegetable scramble and low and behold I had no trouble! Eventually I tried regular tofu and didn't have any trouble either, and from that day forth I was able and am able to consume tofu with no trouble. I had the exact same issue with cashews but still can't consume those without gut pain. So I substitute blanched almonds in recipes that call for cashews. I am so glad I can have my tofu again though.
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#30 Old 08-20-2015, 01:51 PM
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been vegan over 20 years no boobs. I eat tremendous amounts of soy, years have gone by were i have consumed soy 7 days a week. now in my 40's i eat mostly raw.
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