A New 80/10/10 Thread - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-18-2015, 08:37 PM
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A New 80/10/10 Thread

Does anyone want to try it with me? I always want to try it and stick with it, yet never seem able. Maybe I can in a group effort. What do ya say?

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#2 Old 05-19-2015, 06:09 AM
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So... (excuse my ignorance) ... what is it?
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#3 Old 05-19-2015, 06:36 AM
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#4 Old 05-19-2015, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mecanna View Post
So... (excuse my ignorance) ... what is it?
I had to Google it, too, so don't feel too bad. From what I understand, it's a diet consisting of 80% carbs from mostly fruits and vegetables, 10% protein, and 10% fat.

I like the idea of eating a lot of fresh produce, but that just doesn't seem like enough fat and protein to be sustainable. What about nuts, beans, avocado, tofu, and all those other healthy fatty/protein-rich foods that make mealtime enjoyable? I'd think you'd miss them after a few weeks and end up eating a bunch of onion rings and deep-fried cauliflower one day in an act of desperation.
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#5 Old 05-19-2015, 07:09 AM
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I do get the majority of my fuel from carbs, and I am a big carbohydrate fan! But my actual intake seems to be more 70/15/15 on a daily basis. With occasional days of 50/25/25 (potato chips! peanut butter! Hummus!Yum!)
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#6 Old 05-19-2015, 07:11 AM
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...and end up eating a bunch of onion rings and deep-fried cauliflower one day in an act of desperation.
Sounds like me. I just laughed so hard.

I'd like to try it. Coffee would be a problem for me, though. I've recently cut back from 3-4 pots a day to 3-4 cups a day. (Yes, horrible, I know.) I'm working on even less, but not there yet.

Also, I can't lose weight. If I start dropping pounds and can't correct it quickly, I'd need to eat as necessary to gain it back. I shall do some more research on the subject.
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#7 Old 05-19-2015, 07:30 AM
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I was on a five-latte-a-day habit until I got pregnant. Then I cut out all caffeine for three months with the intention of keeping it going throughout the pregnancy, but about a month ago I caved and started drinking 2-3 cups of black tea a day plus the occasional single-shot latte. I told my husband that he'd better bring a six-shot soy latte and a bottle of champagne to the hospital on our son's birth day...
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#8 Old 05-19-2015, 08:23 AM
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I had to Google it, too, so don't feel too bad. From what I understand, it's a diet consisting of 80% carbs from mostly fruits and vegetables, 10% protein, and 10% fat.

I like the idea of eating a lot of fresh produce, but that just doesn't seem like enough fat and protein to be sustainable. What about nuts, beans, avocado, tofu, and all those other healthy fatty/protein-rich foods that make mealtime enjoyable? I'd think you'd miss them after a few weeks and end up eating a bunch of onion rings and deep-fried cauliflower one day in an act of desperation.

when i did 10% fat i felt amazing. my body was great, too. i was spending a lot of time in the gym, recovering quickly, very happy with my progress, happy with everything except for one thing: i really missed eating fat.

i did end up binging on much worse than onions and cauliflower. my sins were sweets.

blech.

i can't do it. but i can do 20-25% fat. so that's where i am. it's not too high in fat but it's not so low that i feel deprived and want to cheat.
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#9 Old 05-19-2015, 08:32 AM
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when i did 10% fat i felt amazing. my body was great, too. i was spending a lot of time in the gym, recovering quickly, very happy with my progress, happy with everything except for one thing: i really missed eating fat.

i did end up binging on much worse than onions and cauliflower. my sins were sweets.

blech.

i can't do it. but i can do 20-25% fat. so that's where i am. it's not too high in fat but it's not so low that i feel deprived and want to cheat.
Was it very hard to figure out what percentages were sustainable for you?

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#10 Old 05-19-2015, 09:15 AM
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no, not really. i had already developed a good sense of the fat content of most foods. i just added a little bit of olive oil (1 tsp maybe for a salad or dish instead of 1 tbsp) and maybe 1-2 walnuts broken into several pieces to each meal.

it didn't take much.

i will always have a heightened awareness of fat. reading all those ornish papers and how powerfully protective a whole foods plant-based low-fat diet can be has only strengthened that. (reverses CHD, prostate cancer, lengthens telomeres).

but i really try to limit the oil. i wanted to phase out olive oil completely. i though i could do a puree of olives that tasted most like olive oil. that turned out to be the castelvetrano type (super green!), but they are so expensive that i couldn't justify it.

also, i am not eating as much fruit as i used to eat. it's really hard to satisfy the betaine/choline requirement without whole grains.

having said all that, low-fat raw, high fruit feels amazing. it's just too restrictive for most people in the long-term.
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#11 Old 05-20-2015, 09:22 AM
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A handful of nuts per day would be enough per day. For me, I couldn't do that every day. It would have to be every other day or something. If I eat a handful of nuts, I wouldn't be able to eat very much after. My dietary habits tend to be light during the day and heavy at night when I'm not doing anything. My body runs best on carbohydrates and basically live off of potatoes, pasta, and rice (with beans every now and then) with fruits and vegetables. Fats would be the thing I'd eat at night to stop cravings.

Additionally, you shouldn't have to count out calories. It's more of a guideline to follow the 80/10/10. Ultamately, you should follow what your body thinks best. Someone might need only 10% fat while some may need a bit more. I think the point to the actual diet is to guide people towards a more healthier, plant-based vegan diet.
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#12 Old 05-20-2015, 10:08 AM
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80/10/10 is a good carbohydrate/protein/fat ratio. However, I think you're talking about the "80/10/10 Diet", promoted by Dr. Doug Graham.


Dr. Graham is a very healthy vegan, but he claims that whole grains are unhealthy. He has even written an anti-grain book called "Grain Damage": http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Damage-R.../dp/1893831051 .


Considering that whole grains are recommended by the American Heart Association, the American Diabetes Association, the Vegan Society, and the Vegetarian Society, I have become skeptical of Dr. Graham and his claims.
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#13 Old 05-20-2015, 10:30 AM
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I'm honestly sceptical of anyone pushing a diet program, especially if they're touting it as a weight loss solution and a cure for all manner of ailments. Just look at the sheer number of these programs, each claiming to be the ideal diet, each vilifying one type of food or another... It seems to me that we should eat whatever makes us feel best without trying to adhere to anyone else's idea of health.
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#14 Old 05-20-2015, 10:39 AM
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i'm honestly sceptical of anyone pushing a diet program, especially if they're touting it as a weight loss solution and a cure for all manner of ailments. Just look at the sheer number of these programs, each claiming to be the ideal diet, each vilifying one type of food or another... It seems to me that we should eat whatever makes us feel best without trying to adhere to anyone else's idea of health.
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#15 Old 05-20-2015, 07:46 PM
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I have the 80/10/10 book by "Dr." Graham and it is extremely restrictive. This guy thinks even mushrooms and onions are unhealthy, he thinks sea vegetables are unnatural for humans, and he abhors fat. Most of what he pushes is lots and lots of fresh fruit (he is also against dehydrated food and dried fruits) with a few vegetables, mainly leafy greens, and he pushes for mono meals (large amounts of one type of food). He allows for very little fat in the way of whole seeds or nuts, just a few kernels a day I think. I haven't read the book for a few years so I don't remember the details offhand. Those are just the details that stand out in my memory. I did try it for a week, all raw mostly fresh fruit in massive quantities. It did feel somewhat freeing to be able to eat five or more bananas in one sitting where before in my mind it was "bad" to eat more than one banana in a meal. Granted I was very underweight at the time and very active but I couldn't sustain myself on it for long. I craved fat like never before and my digestion went crazy with diarrhea ten times a day. I didn't gradually work into it though, it was overnight which was probably a mistake. I too am very skeptical of his claims, and the reason I quoted his title of Dr. is that it is very hard to find any background information about where he went to school, what kind of education he has and his qualifications for coaching people with serious problems like diabetes, anorexia nervosa, heart disease etc. I don't know of too many people who have been able to live for long periods eating that style of diet, though there are a few success stories.

I personally feel so much better and have more energy and satiety including whole grains in my diet daily. My digestion is better and I don't feel so drastically hungry and I feel like I have more staying power and satisfaction, enjoyment with eating. A bowl of millet and fruit and a few seeds will keep me going through a bike ride to the gym, lifting some weights, cycling to work, and the first few hours of work afterwards. I am one who absolutely needs a little fat in my diet, but I try to minimize or avoid most oil (though I use a little from time to time but not every day) and incorporate whole food fats like whole nuts/seeds, avocado, coconut in my diet in small amounts most days. Too much makes me sluggish and sick to my stomach. I always know when I am getting too little though because my stools become harder and don't slid out as beautifully (sorry had to add that information in there lol). My ratios when I randomly plug in my nutrition intake tend to average 70/15/15 more or less. That's what works for me but I know everyone is different. I think I could go much higher with my protein intake for the amount of strength training I do and could probably perform better with more fat and calories in general (I maintain on about 1500 to 1600 calories as an active, 114 lb, 42 year old post surgically menopausal woman with hypothyroidism) but it is still a fear of mine I am working through. I know when my protein is too low because I get very sore from lifting weights and it takes longer to recover and repair muscle tissue. When I go too low in fat I don't have quite the oomph for activities like rowing/endurance activities. I remember when I first went vegan and my carb intake increased quite a bit. My energy level exploded and I went from running two miles a day to five plus eight mile bike rides to work/home each day. But I would get muscle injuries easier because my protein intake was too low due to not eating enough.

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#16 Old 05-22-2015, 06:52 AM
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I did 801010 for a good while and I felt absolutely amazingggg but three things stopped me from continuing it;

1) I felt conscious of my carbon footprint. Relying so much on fresh fruit from abroad left me feeling guilty. Having heaps of pineapple and banana smoothies made me feel bad. I personally want to keep my carbon footprint to a minimum where practical and possible.

2) My whole digestion changed in good and bad ways. Aside of the good, I can no longer eat fruit/vegetables after starches (I did Raw Til 4 on 801010 wherever possible) because I get massive stomach pains, a lot of gas and feel bloated. After doing some research, I believe it's because the starches (rice, potatoes etc.) have a much longer transit time than fruit/veg. Even though I'm not pushing fruit so much, the problem still remains. I also can't eat anything high in fat now without getting belly ache or having bad ****s which means I have a regretful and distant relationship with vegan junk food.

3) I simply couldn't keep raw til 4 up and because of the digestive issue I said above I could only do 801010 on Raw Til 4 (eating all fruit/veg in the day before having starches at night) to get enough nutrients.

I believe I'm still 801010 but on mostly starches, so I'm willing to do 801010 with you if it isn't shaped around Dr Graham's concept My average day is a morning fruit smoothie, raw banana ice cream for snack, vegetable-based lunch, snacking on nuts, then salad and starchy dinner (all whole foods)

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#17 Old 05-23-2015, 12:59 PM
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I'm honestly sceptical of anyone pushing a diet program, especially if they're touting it as a weight loss solution and a cure for all manner of ailments. Just look at the sheer number of these programs, each claiming to be the ideal diet, each vilifying one type of food or another... It seems to me that we should eat whatever makes us feel best without trying to adhere to anyone else's idea of health.
I believe, without hesitation, that a fat-restricted, moderately low-protein diet is ideal for disease prevention or reversal. There's a ton of data, very convincing, from Ornish, Kempner (nothing but rice, fruit, fruit juice, sugar, and a vitamin), Pritikin, Esselystyn, McDougall, Barnard, and others as well as very convincing epidemiology (Okinawan centenarians, other blue zones).

I don't have any doubt that richer diets are not ideal. They are ideal for taste, of course, but not for prevention and reversal of disease, or longevity.

Truly low fat diets (<15% fat) are not ideal for adherence. Hardly anyone really wants to eat like that for the rest of their life, especially not when it's so easy to stray and temptations are everywhere.

As to the specifics (starch-based vs. fruit-based, how many greens, how much emphasis on vegetables, how much variety, vegan or not, vegetarian or not, how much raw) there are many variations and unanswered questions. I think a lot depends on how sick a person is or what the particular goal is.

A lot of people will say that they have the answer. They are usually trying to sell you something.

The only real answer is to make the diet mostly unrefined carbohydrate. Simple, plain, boring, and true. Now where's my best-seller?
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Last edited by cuberail; 05-23-2015 at 05:09 PM.
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#18 Old 05-23-2015, 03:04 PM
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Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#19 Old 05-23-2015, 03:43 PM
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I believe, without hesitation, that a fat-restricted, moderately low-protein diet is ideal for disease prevention or reversal. There's a ton of data, very convincing, from Ornish, Kempner (nothing but rice, fruit, fruit juice, sugar, and a vitamin), Pritikin, Esselystyn, McDougall, Barnard, and others as well as very convincing epidemiology (Okinawan centenarians, other blue zones).

I don't have any doubt that richer diets are not ideal. They are ideal for taste, of course, but not for prevention and reversal of disease, or longevity. They are also not ideal for adherence. Hardly anyone really wants to eat like that for the rest of their life, especially not when it's so easy to stray and temptations are everywhere.

As to the specifics (starch-based vs. fruit-based, how many greens, how much emphasis on vegetables, how much variety, vegan or not, vegetarian or not, how much raw) there are many variations and unanswered questions. I think a lot depends on how sick a person is or what the particular goal is.

A lot of people will say that they have the answer. They are usually trying to sell you something.

The only real answer is to make the diet mostly unrefined carbohydrate. Simple, plain, boring, and true. Now where's my best-seller?
Right up there with my weight loss book: Shut Your Pie Hole and Get on a Treadmill.
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Last edited by LedBoots; 05-23-2015 at 03:47 PM.
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#20 Old 05-24-2015, 06:30 PM
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I'm currently trying McDougall to see if it gets rid of migraines which are making me miserable. But how healthy can it be to avoid grains and legumes? Something doesn't sound right. I'm no nutritionist but all fruit with the occasional nut thrown in just seems unhealthy long term. But I could be wrong.
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#21 Old 05-24-2015, 09:24 PM
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king I think there are some people who do fine with the high fruit no starch approach, but they are very rare. to make it work, one absolutely has to be very active and have a high kcal intake in order to meet mineral requirements.

i never did 100% raw. i always included cooked legumes. but many people will also want to incorporate cooked starches.

in my studies (reading papers for over 30 years now) i have come to the conclusion that the major factor in disease proofing is in limiting overt fats.

stick to a whole-foods, plant-based diet. it needs to be mostly carbohydrate. those carbohydrates throughout history have almost always been starches rather than simple sugars. starch is easier, for sure. and cheaper, and more satisfying.

but some people feel that fruit is the better choice. they think a lot of damage takes place in cooking, they have issues with the so-called "antinutrients" that are actually antioxidants, and they make a big issue of the 1% of the population that might actually have to avoid gluten for health. what they fail to mention is that the single most important dietary factor in longevity populations is the humble cooked legume.

you can do both fruit and starch. it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. i am not convinced that anything magical happens when you remove heat but it might be a fun thing to do now and then, especially if you have easy access to a lot of high quality fruit.
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#22 Old 05-24-2015, 10:20 PM
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Ha ha, my trees are all babies but hopefully in a few years I will have access to lots of high quality fruits. Meanwhile thanks for the info.
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