The controversy of Freelee - Page 8 - VeggieBoards
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#211 Old 06-09-2015, 07:17 AM
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I agree completely with what she said. In my home country there are many poor people who don't get enough to eat, they don't drive and walk a lot and they are still overweight.
The body-weight itself as it appears is a complicated process, I feel there are two factors to that, one being metabolism and two being height-weight ratio or BMI and the combination of both factors thereof. As you said, health is a completely different issue. Both underweight and overweight people stand to inherit health issues of their own kind.

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#212 Old 06-11-2015, 12:53 AM
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I can only imagine s/he was talking about vegans on Facebook. I've definitely seen some strange unscientific ideas there, but I've found the vegans I meet in person to be very rational and pleasant.

You should see some omnivore claims on vegan posts on facebook.
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#213 Old 06-11-2015, 03:41 AM
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You should see some omnivore claims on vegan posts on facebook.
Oh, I've seen those too!
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#214 Old 06-11-2015, 05:56 AM
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I'm genuinely confused. I can understand this: someone is obese and eating really healthy at the present moment. I cannot understand this: someone is obese and has been eating healthy whole foods and exercising regularly for 5 years.

I seriously don't understand how someone who has lived healthily and exercised well long term could ever possibly be obese? You would naturally slim down. You would become lean. That's how we were naturally designed to be. Humans wouldn't evolve to be "fat" if they were living healthily and actively. That just wouldn't make sense.

In short: I get how an obese person can be eating healthy at that moment, but not how someone who has been healthy and active long term wouldn't naturally be losing fat and getting leaner.
They are obese or overweight because even though they are active and eat healthy foods, their overall caloric intake is such that they maintain a higher body weight. It really is that simple. I can eat 2500 calories of healthy foods a day and I will gain weight. I can eat 1500 calories of Twinkies a day and lose weight. Healthy food doesn't have any special slimming power that you can defy laws of physics. As for WHY they eat enough to maintain the higher weight, there could be all sorts of reasons. Could be ignorance of how much they are actually eating that some calorie tracking and weighing of foods could remedy (this was true in my case). Could be they would rather eat more and are satisfied at the heavier weight as long as there are no health complications. Could be a medical condition that slows their metabolism (or interferes with being active enough to burn lots of calories) so that to reach that lower weight they would have to restrict severely and they actually eat no more than you. Could be that they get incredibly hungry on the lower calories...people vary in terms of how hungry they get and some can eat a small meal and be stuffed while others like me can eat and eat and still feel like there is room for more. My hunger cues will drive me to be heavy if I listen to them (which is why I have to track my calories and not rely on hunger if I want to stay slimmer...it is a lot of work).
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#215 Old 06-11-2015, 06:14 AM
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I can very much accept that someone's set weight make look "tubby" or "fat" and may have a calculated BMI outside the range considered healthy, even though that is their set weight, but I still don't see how someone could have a set weight of obese. The body would never have a set weight like the photo below when they live a fantastic lifestyle.
I think you might have a misperception of what obese actually looks like. The media perpetuates this by showing images of 300 pound people with cheeseburgers in their hands every time they talk about it as if this is the norm, so a lot of people are confused and even reject that they are obese because they know they don't look like those people. Most obese people are category 1 obese which is going to look like "tubby" or "fat" (to use your words). I wore a size 14 (US) when I was obese.This woman looks to be in category 2 or 3 which is much above the norm for obesity. I don't know why she is that heavy, but she appears to be short which can make weight loss harder (shorter people have eat fewer calories than a taller person of the same weight and also appear heavier at the same weight). She also seems to carry her weight in the midsection which is not something she can really control. Different bodies store fat differently and no amount of ab crunching will alter that. Might be other reasons that we don't know about.

When I was category 1 obese (I've lost from 267 pounds to 153) I had a lot of people tell me to stop losing weight!! I told them I was still obese and they would argue with me that it was impossible. I think they were confused about what obese looks like (and also seeing me as thin because they were used to the fatter version....I really was not thin).
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#216 Old 06-14-2015, 06:24 PM
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I just did a project on her and her 30 BAD in my introductory nutrition class and I came to this conclusion: Freelee is a threat to public health, both physical and mental health.

Freeler is a self admitted former anorexic. While that doesn't make a person bad, I believe she is honestly hiding her anorexia behind another eating disorder (orthorexia) and many of her followers are the same way and she encourages this. Think about it: its a diet where you can eat as much as you like and not gain any weight (for the most part, but I have heard of people gaining weight on this diet anyways because you still are consuming a massive amount of calories). That sounds like a gold mine for people with anorexia or bulimia.

Orthorexia is a "new" eating disorder. Its when someone is so obsessed with eating "healthy" or "pure" that it ends up seriously hindering their normal lives-their social lives often taking a huge cut. The people who follow this diet most likely do not have any other friends or family members who ascribe to this, so they probably spent most meals eating alone. These people can't even enjoy a vegan cupcake or pizza at a vegan restaurant with friends. Studies have shown the quality of a person's social life matters quite a bit IN ADDITION to eating healthy and exercising. Put simply, these people isolate themselves and their mental health pays for it. I can also guarantee you that these people spend the majority of their day thinking or preparing their food, another classic sign of orthorexia. This is a serious disease and CAN KILL much like anorexia or bulimia. While I understand eating healthy is hugely important, mental health is not to be taken lightly. She has a few videos addressing orthorexia but conveniently steps around the question and avoids the biggest issues with the illness and covers it up by spewing out unrealistic expectations for people. (which she very good at in all of her videos)

I can also guarantee you that these people are probably constantly hungry, despite eating massive quantities of fruit. Carbohydrates don't satiate. Protein and fats do, and this diet is 90% carbs.

In addition to all of that, I can bet you the eating habits aren't healthy anyways, despite how beautiful and trim Freelee looks. She admits that she rarely exercises, and it appears that all she does is cycle and do yoga or dance and yet she has what appear to be abs and biceps. I can tell you...its just because she has almost no fat on her body. Strength training is very important for the prevention of osteoporosis in women, and I'm guessing the majority of the people who follow Freelee are female. And yet she scoffs at it. She may have "the look" but her strength isn't there.

She's also a pretty nasty and what I would say pathological person. Not a great face for veganism. While I understand her frustration on a lot of topics, the world needs more positivity, not negativity. She is probably just getting hypertensive because of her rage...

I would love to see her change her ways or just stop altogether. She makes money off of hurting others and spewing negativity. Not cool.
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#217 Old 06-15-2015, 09:52 PM
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I just did a project on her and her 30 BAD in my introductory nutrition class and I came to this conclusion: Freelee is a threat to public health, both physical and mental health.

Freeler is a self admitted former anorexic. While that doesn't make a person bad, I believe she is honestly hiding her anorexia behind another eating disorder (orthorexia) and many of her followers are the same way and she encourages this. Think about it: its a diet where you can eat as much as you like and not gain any weight (for the most part, but I have heard of people gaining weight on this diet anyways because you still are consuming a massive amount of calories). That sounds like a gold mine for people with anorexia or bulimia.

Orthorexia is a "new" eating disorder. Its when someone is so obsessed with eating "healthy" or "pure" that it ends up seriously hindering their normal lives-their social lives often taking a huge cut. The people who follow this diet most likely do not have any other friends or family members who ascribe to this, so they probably spent most meals eating alone. These people can't even enjoy a vegan cupcake or pizza at a vegan restaurant with friends. Studies have shown the quality of a person's social life matters quite a bit IN ADDITION to eating healthy and exercising. Put simply, these people isolate themselves and their mental health pays for it. I can also guarantee you that these people spend the majority of their day thinking or preparing their food, another classic sign of orthorexia. This is a serious disease and CAN KILL much like anorexia or bulimia. While I understand eating healthy is hugely important, mental health is not to be taken lightly. She has a few videos addressing orthorexia but conveniently steps around the question and avoids the biggest issues with the illness and covers it up by spewing out unrealistic expectations for people. (which she very good at in all of her videos)

I can also guarantee you that these people are probably constantly hungry, despite eating massive quantities of fruit. Carbohydrates don't satiate. Protein and fats do, and this diet is 90% carbs.

In addition to all of that, I can bet you the eating habits aren't healthy anyways, despite how beautiful and trim Freelee looks. She admits that she rarely exercises, and it appears that all she does is cycle and do yoga or dance and yet she has what appear to be abs and biceps. I can tell you...its just because she has almost no fat on her body. Strength training is very important for the prevention of osteoporosis in women, and I'm guessing the majority of the people who follow Freelee are female. And yet she scoffs at it. She may have "the look" but her strength isn't there.

She's also a pretty nasty and what I would say pathological person. Not a great face for veganism. While I understand her frustration on a lot of topics, the world needs more positivity, not negativity. She is probably just getting hypertensive because of her rage...

I would love to see her change her ways or just stop altogether. She makes money off of hurting others and spewing negativity. Not cool.
Cycling, dancing and yoga all strengthen muscles. I don't know if they prevent osteoperosis, but if strength training does, these might too. I don't know.

You said "her strength isn't there." This means nothing. Her strength isn't where? Just having a low bmi wouldn't give her shoulder muscles and a six pack, as you suggested. I'm not saying weight training isn't good, I'm just highly sick of people saying it's necessary for this or that. Body weight is weight. Look at tennis -- Serena Williams does no weight training! She hasn't in years. Raphael Nadal does no weight training. These people are ripped, in a natural looking way.

Also, Freelee does exercise a lot -- a whole hell of a lot. She and Durianrider are always downplaying how much they exercise. They say they don't then show that they do. This blatant contradiction is one thing I wish they wouldn't do, as the only people who seem to have success on their diet are hardcore athletes.

That being said, they often plug and link to people like McDougall and Esselstyn. "Go fruit yourself... or root yourself," says Freelee. I respect this about them. I see a lot of videos of girls who fail on Freelee's diet, then turn to The Starch Solution, or something like it, and have great success. Keep in mind that many of these girls went vegan after watching Freelee's videos.

I only wish she and Durianrider wouldn't make response videos where they do a lot of fat shaming and bullying. I understand going through these emotions when somebody says your diet didn't work for them, but you should make your video after you process your emotions. It's irresponsible to do otherwise.

But, at the end of the day, the animals don't care. Hopefully some of them will live thanks to these two controversial figures spreading the message of veganism.

I hope you weren't as simplistic in your paper as you were in some of your above criticisms. I believe you said something like, she's a pretty nasty and pathological person. I'm paraphrasing, but, this doesn't seem like A+ stuff to me.

When people say stuff like, people need to be more positive, not negative, et cetera, they are usually actually stating this in a negative manner, proving through irony that the idea of somebody being positive all the time is absurd. I believe that's what you've done.
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#218 Old 06-16-2015, 02:46 AM
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Carbohydrates satiate me just fine. I stick with nutritional advice fro T. Colin Campbell, John McDougal, and Caldwell Esselstyn. I prefer clean arteries and a high protein diet wrecked my kidneys. But I stick with starches with some veggies, legumes, and fruits.
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#219 Old 06-16-2015, 11:23 AM
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Cycling, dancing and yoga all strengthen muscles. I don't know if they prevent osteoperosis, but if strength training does, these might too. I don't know.

You said "her strength isn't there." This means nothing. Her strength isn't where? Just having a low bmi wouldn't give her shoulder muscles and a six pack, as you suggested. I'm not saying weight training isn't good, I'm just highly sick of people saying it's necessary for this or that. Body weight is weight. Look at tennis -- Serena Williams does no weight training! She hasn't in years. Raphael Nadal does no weight training. These people are ripped, in a natural looking way.

Also, Freelee does exercise a lot -- a whole hell of a lot. She and Durianrider are always downplaying how much they exercise. They say they don't then show that they do. This blatant contradiction is one thing I wish they wouldn't do, as the only people who seem to have success on their diet are hardcore athletes.

That being said, they often plug and link to people like McDougall and Esselstyn. "Go fruit yourself... or root yourself," says Freelee. I respect this about them. I see a lot of videos of girls who fail on Freelee's diet, then turn to The Starch Solution, or something like it, and have great success. Keep in mind that many of these girls went vegan after watching Freelee's videos.

I only wish she and Durianrider wouldn't make response videos where they do a lot of fat shaming and bullying. I understand going through these emotions when somebody says your diet didn't work for them, but you should make your video after you process your emotions. It's irresponsible to do otherwise.

But, at the end of the day, the animals don't care. Hopefully some of them will live thanks to these two controversial figures spreading the message of veganism.

I hope you weren't as simplistic in your paper as you were in some of your above criticisms. I believe you said something like, she's a pretty nasty and pathological person. I'm paraphrasing, but, this doesn't seem like A+ stuff to me.

When people say stuff like, people need to be more positive, not negative, et cetera, they are usually actually stating this in a negative manner, proving through irony that the idea of somebody being positive all the time is absurd. I believe that's what you've done.
These exercises all strengthen muscles to a degree, yes, but I doubt you can get "ripped" JUST doing those exercises. From what I've gathered, you need to strength train. (Weights, calisthenics, etc) While I believe if she's doing just those exercises its better than nothing, she could be doing more, or at least advocating for more. I don't know enough about those athletes you mentioned to comment on them, I'll admit.

On that note, like I said, I don't think Freelee isn't actually ripped. Let me elaborate: Her muscles are showing because she has such low body fat due to her low fat diet. My boyfriend's old roommate did nothing but sit around on his computer all day and play video games and he was "ripped"-because he hardly ever ate and also had a very, very fast metabolism. That's what I mean when I say the strength isn't actually there. She is very skinny, that's all there is to it, if her claims about how little she exercises are true. If they aren't and she exercises a lot, then I find it incredibly suspicious on why she would want to downplay that part of her lifestyle-its as if she could sell her "product" (herself, her book, her website, etc) as a "miracle cure" without having to put a lot of effort in to actually staying healthy. (not only putting in the time and energy to eat well but also the time and energy to exercise adequately) That idea would and does sell for sure.

I believe there is a balance between good health and saving animal lives. You can achieve both. Even though Freelee turns people on to veganism, many of her followers are sick and have eating disorders. That's sad. People need compassion for themselves, not just animals. People need to be healthy if they want to be animal advocates, if you want to think of it that way.

I actually didn't mention anywhere in my project that she was a nasty person, I just posted that as my own opinion here on Veggie Boards. I did an analysis of her diet with a computer program and went over her nutrient intakes, macronutrient ranges, etc. It was completely objective. No need to comment on the quality my schoolwork that you didn't see anyways here-I'm not trying to make this personal, this is supposed to be a friendly debate.

And I like to think my comment on her being negative is constructive criticism, not akin to the intense hatred that she holds. The way she expresses her negativity is just unabashed anger and it is a huge turn off. I never said that negativity should be eliminated from the planet, but if you can do with less, (i.e. making a ridiculously hateful claim that all non vegans should be killed) I think its for the better. She could be expressing her views in a much less angry and judgmental way.

Pandemic Acolyte: Freelee doesn't eat legumes (from what I've seen), which are higher in protein (the most satiating macronutrient) than many other plant based foods even though they are also high in carbohydrates. Her diet is 5% protein. That's not enough to keep someone from not feeling like they're starving all the time. I saw a video of one of her followers showing what she ate in a day-the girl went out and got a fruit smoothie with a friend and then the video cut to the girl *just* coming home from drinking the smoothie claiming that she was "STARVING!!". In addition to this, earlier in the day she had a 1,000 calorie breakfast. This girl would not feel hungry in the middle of the day if she's eating a more balanced diet and had a 1,000 calorie breakfast (not saying that would be healthy, but my point is that 1,000 calories should be enough to keep you going for a while, but if you're just eating carbs it won't) Obviously something wrong there, I think.
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#220 Old 06-16-2015, 03:52 PM
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I don't think protein is the most satiating. I agree with McDougall on carbs(starches) and particularly potatoes being the best for me. But that's just for me I can't say for others. I always found her avoidance of legumes to be strange especially after eating more cooked foods again. I happen to get 10 to 20% protein just cause I really like lentils, and black beans. I find fruit to not be satiating simply cause it digests so quickly.

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#221 Old 06-16-2015, 04:20 PM
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I agree with @Brain Floss that Freelee is probably definitely suffering from orthorexia and that's very sad. What's even sadder are the people coming from the same background as her (former anorexics) who are following in her footsteps, thinking what they are doing is completely healthy and normal as Freelee is doing it, too!

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#222 Old 06-20-2015, 06:55 PM
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I don't know a huge amount about her but it is true that to get really toned you do need a combination of diet AND exercise. And by exercise I mean you need to put in the time regularly, using weights/ doing pushups and situps etc. I am sure that she does this and so I can only assume the reason she downplays it is because she wants to offer an "easy"/ "miracle" solution whereby one can look like her with minimal effort...
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#223 Old 06-21-2015, 01:13 PM
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The Controversy of Freelee

My thought is that what will be will be. leave her alone. If people like her, they can listen to her and look up to her. If they don't, they can look elsewhere. If I disliked her and made a point of watching her YouTube videos just to crap on her advice and lifestyle the first thing I would do is examine what surely must be missing in my own life that I would feel compelled to spend time and energy feeding negativity when I could be spending it finding people I actually do like and find inspiring.
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#224 Old 06-21-2015, 04:15 PM
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EXACTLY River Santosha. If you (general "you") don't like her, don't pay any more attention to her.


And in regards to saying you "can't" be satisfied on low protein diets, well, some people can...and thrive doing so. Eat whole unprocessed plant foods.
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#225 Old 06-22-2015, 03:12 AM
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My thought is that what will be will be. leave her alone. If people like her, they can listen to her and look up to her. If they don't, they can look elsewhere. If I disliked her and made a point of watching her YouTube videos just to crap on her advice and lifestyle the first thing I would do is examine what surely must be missing in my own life that I would feel compelled to spend time and energy feeding negativity when I could be spending it finding people I actually do like and find inspiring.
I think this would be excellent advice if Freelee were harmless, but she isn't. Ignoring bullies might be more convenient for us, but it does nothing to help the victims.

Personally, I don't watch Freelee's videos unless someone specifically asks me to comment on one or requests a reference. I've heard enough of what she has to say to form an opinion and I'd prefer not to listen to fat-shaming in my free time.
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#226 Old 06-22-2015, 07:05 PM
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I wanted to add that I do think It's great that she promotes veganism
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#227 Old 06-22-2015, 07:39 PM
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I wanted to add that I do think It's great that she promotes veganism
In a fat-shaming, unrealistic, and "holier-than-though" way . . .

How many people do you think would want to go vegan if it entails eating 30 bananas a day? Talk about unrealistic expectations. Convincing people to switch from the SAD to 'plain old' (non-raw) veganism is hard enough as it is.

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#228 Old 06-22-2015, 07:46 PM
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In a fat-shaming, unrealistic, and "holier-than-though" way . . .

How many people do you think would want to go vegan if it entails eating 30 bananas a day? Talk about unrealistic expectations. Convincing people to switch from the SAD to 'plain old' (non-raw) veganism is hard enough as it is.
She has a lot of subscribers and has apparently converted a few thousand people to veganism though...That has to go in her favour...
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#229 Old 06-23-2015, 10:32 AM
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Freelee is cute and fit, so that is a great motivator for people. However veganism isnt like, a hot diet tip. So I dont know how many of her followers are in it for the long term.

Like if they dont get super fit/hot on 30BAD's version of veganism, is it right on to the next thing? Maybe a body builder style diet of whey protien shakes, egg whites, and chicken breasts?
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#230 Old 08-24-2015, 06:02 PM
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I only watched a few of Freelee's videos and was somewhat put off by her. I don't have any strong opinions of her one way or another, but I thought it was a bit disturbing in one video where she said it was "normal" to not have a period as a raw vegan and that everyone can achieve a thigh gap at a normal weight. If that isn't a bit disordered. As someone with a very short lifetime exposure to menstruation, I can attest to the damaging effects that has on a woman's skeletal structure, and it is not something to be taken lightly. Bones are living tissue, but they don't grow back too fast.

On the other hand, I think we spend way too much time tearing down famous vegan figures (men or women) for not being perfect and saintly and far too little time out in society speaking up for those without a voice.
I think I saw that same video you mentioned. I remember she said it's not unnatural for your period to go missing for a bit, but it is unnatural to have heavy, painful periods. That baffled me. It's completely normal and every girl's period is different! I'm vegan and I have always had heavy periods with cramps, she's very misinformed honestly. Your diet is an important part of how your body functions but it's not some magical cure for everything. And because of that, I've never liked Freelee. When I got on her channel I just see lots of videos bashing celebrities or other YouTuber's for not having the same lifestyle. Just because someone isn't vegan doesn't mean you can assume they are super unhealthy or have an eating disorder.
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#231 Old 08-24-2015, 06:24 PM
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Honestly i think youtubers like blogilates are far worse. There are a lot of things i don't agree with in her videos, but sometimes i think it's to cause drama in the youtube community. The whole "any publicity is good publicity". I don't think she promotes eating disorders - but i think eating disordered people can be triggered easily by her.
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#232 Old 09-13-2015, 12:51 PM
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My thought is that what will be will be. leave her alone. If people like her, they can listen to her and look up to her. If they don't, they can look elsewhere. If I disliked her and made a point of watching her YouTube videos just to crap on her advice and lifestyle the first thing I would do is examine what surely must be missing in my own life that I would feel compelled to spend time and energy feeding negativity when I could be spending it finding people I actually do like and find inspiring.
I also believe that food is a very personal issue and that the way every person eats is his or her own choice. So I try to let people be. From the videos and articles I've read on Freelee, I believe she's sincere in what she's doing and believes in it. The fact that it happens not to gel with what I believe is fine.

However, one thing that does concern me is when I see people in the vegan community recommending her videos and website to brand new vegans. My own personal view is that Freelee's approach to veganism is very regimented and extreme when you look at the general overview of what vegan eating includes (whether it is disordered eating or not is a separate issue). I think most people would agree that when someone is new to veganism and just getting to understand that it is a philosophy and a lifestyle that is not just about what you do and do not eat, starting with the rainbow of foods that you can eat as a vegan (whole grains, beans, veggies, fruits, good fats, etc) is the positive approach rather than emphasizing all that is restricted (and, with Freelee's kind of diet, we're not just talking about eliminating meat and dairy but also eating small amounts of cooked foods - at least, as I understand it). Let's face it - going vegan for many people is difficult and they tend to focus on everything they CAN'T eat. So I think that introducing them to something like Freelee's diet is even more restricting and can turn a lot of people off. And that's not counting the fact that she's highly controversial and rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

I belong to a vegan Facebook group that has been great support, but someone recently posted that she was brand new to veganism and didn't know where to start. Someone recommended Freelee's videos. I had to put my two cents in, and posted just what Freelee is about and that I didn't think it was the right place for a brand new vegan to start at all. That really concerns me.

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#233 Old 09-13-2015, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,002
Pseudoscience and all forms of quackery are dangerous and destructive.

There is no factual controversy over Freelee's "philosophy". There is no question that she is spreading falsehoods.
Windigo, no whey jose and ellyray like this.

Beanitarian.
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