The controversy of Freelee - Page 4 - VeggieBoards
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#91 Old 05-30-2015, 12:32 PM
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if you look at Russians polish Latvians, there bodies are in perfect proportion, old and young its just part of there culture, they all could be athletes, thats what i mean be optimum human body.
it´s only in the west we have scientist try to figure out how much weight we should carry
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#92 Old 05-30-2015, 12:43 PM
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I just think it is weird to be thin, and fit, and slimmer than every other adult and teenager you know, and say "you know I really should go down another BMI point"

Like, that sounds eating disordered and weird to me. Maybe I am just shaped by my enviroment, but at this point I am focused on personal fitness goals, versus continual weight loss.

If I do lose weight as a result of my fitness goals, that is fine, but I dont seek that at this point in the game. (if this attachment works, a fitness goal of mine is to do this pose better)

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#93 Old 05-30-2015, 01:02 PM
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((( edited to add a story))))I ordered a woman's dress from Asia on amazon recently, which had lots of reviews as being so small because of the Asian sizing. yeah, its a tent on me.
I think BMI fails for east asians, too. i've seen many east asian girls who have bmis below 18 who look very healthy. they can have somewhat lower bmis than western europeans or sub-saharan africans. they also tend to get type II diabetes at lower bmis than western europeans or sub-saharan africans.

i would not worry about getting down to 18 from 19. but there are some extreme dieters (the calorie restriction with optimal nutrition types) who aim for below 17 because they think they will age more slowly and live longer. that is creepy.
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#94 Old 05-30-2015, 01:05 PM
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The "optimum human body," if such a thing even exists, is different for everyone. It's simply not practical for some people to heathfully maintain a low weight. Even maintaining a BMI in the "normal" range can require excessive calorie restriction for certain individuals. We don't all share the same baseline and we don't all have the same ideal bodily ratio. Trying to cram everyone into the same mold is futile and detrimental.

Even if there were an ideal body shape or BMI, why would we assume the right to judge everyone who doesn't work hard to attain it? Why would achieving an optimum level of fitness be a goal that everyone should want to achieve, considering the relative insignificance of physical appearance when compared to other time-consuming activities like career, family, artistic pursuits, and charity work? Why do we hold in high esteem those people who spend hours at the gym but not those who would prefer to spend that time reading or volunteering?
What makes one somehow superior to the other, and how exactly is it any concern of ours what someone else chooses to do with her time or her body?

I was waiting for someone to bring up the "burden on the healthcare system" angle. Never mind that the purpose of a socialised healthcare system is precisely to care for those who need help. There are a great many factors influencing the medical care (or lack of proper medical care) of overweight and obese people, including a bias against them by medical professionals. Here's an article referencing two studies on the subject: http://jezebel.com/yet-another-study...-pro-510296383
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#95 Old 05-30-2015, 01:10 PM
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Strongly agree,cuberail. that is creepy. I think Dr. Mcdougall and his wife look great, and I want to age in the same way they are aging.

They dont advise any restrictive intake, and based on the way I have seen them talk about food, and eat food, I think they are more in the "eat in healthful abundance" camp. Seems more mentally healthy.
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#96 Old 05-30-2015, 01:15 PM
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no you don't need to workout in a gym all the time, or limit calls to achieve an optimum body,
and now we com back to food addict, if you have a constant struggle with food, on the border line obese line, then there is a problem, it should not be a struggle.

the reason i brought up the Eastern bloke people, is that there culture promotes an optimum body, and they don't diet all the time.
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#97 Old 05-30-2015, 01:18 PM
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Has she really converted thousands? If she has then that's great. From a weight loss standpoint, judging by videos on YouTube, the only people who have good results from raw till four are hardcore workout people. It's great for them, especially cyclists, but, as someone who exercises more moderately I don't see a reason to eat beyond satiation. I don't count calories or restrict in anyway, but, in my opinion, trying to reach a high calorie goal is just as bad as trying to reach a low one, unless you're an athlete.

I feel like Harley and Freely downplay how much exercise they get sometimes. Then they'll talk about some crazy ride they did or something.

I also don't like how she said Non-vegans should be killed.

Otherwise, I love them. They're funny, they promote doing exercise that you enjoy and going vegan, so, at the end of the day they're great.
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#98 Old 05-30-2015, 01:20 PM
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Strongly agree,cuberail. that is creepy. I think Dr. Mcdougall and his wife look great, and I want to age in the same way they are aging.

They dont advise any restrictive intake, and based on the way I have seen them talk about food, and eat food, I think they are more in the "eat in healthful abundance" camp. Seems more mentally healthy.
i agree. better to eat very healthily without restriction as they say.

also, i hope it doesn't offend anyone, but i think dr. mcdougall is smoking hot! he improves with age.
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#99 Old 05-30-2015, 01:24 PM
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Agree, no whey! When I was fat, I had some serious misconceptions about food, for sure, but I also had a lot going on in my life that was unpleasant. I was using food to cope, and to be honest, it was my best tool for coping with the stress I had at that time.

Now I have different tools, I do yoga, color mandalas, take a walk, F*** around on veggieboards, etc to let off steam. Sometimes I do overeat still, and I both accept that, and believe that someday I will progress beyond the need to do that.

Its been a journey, for sure. And if anyone would like to try my life on for size, and see what I am dealing with, you may then judge me for occasionally downing a pint vegan ice cream in a sitting.

When I see I fat person, I dont make assumptions. Maybe they are starting a health journey, maybe they have something emotional going on, maybe they are food addicts, maybe they are ignorant about nutrition, maybe they have different priorities. Maybe they dont give a F***, and just want to be left alone with their vices.
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#100 Old 05-30-2015, 01:28 PM
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cubarail as a man, I'm very offended that is a sexist comment i hope you not stalking him lol
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#101 Old 05-30-2015, 01:31 PM
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i agree. better to eat very healthily without restriction as they say.

also, i hope it doesn't offend anyone, but i think dr. mcdougall is smoking hot! he improves with age.
LOL. freelee is beautiful too! I hate that when people tear her down, they pick on her body/face/whatever. She looks great. Harley looks great. No need to hate everything about them just because they say mean things on the internet.

I can only imagine if I had such a public face, people would be saying my veg*n lifestyle has given me a flat chest and crazy red hair that reaches to my nethers. And is that a children's shirt I am wearing?!

Really should post a pic of myself on here... How to do that I wonder.
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#102 Old 05-30-2015, 01:36 PM
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I love the phrase "eat in healthful abundance." That's very much my personal food philosophy. If I feel hungry, I eat. I try to choose plenty of fruits, vegetables, and grains and eat as much of those as I like, leaving space for a "junky" treat every couple of days or so. I don't work out, but I walk everywhere and do gentle yoga once a week. It's a sustainable lifestyle that's brought me an unprecedented amount of physical and mental health, and allowed me to carry a healthy baby. I honestly can't imagine how my life could be improved by counting calories or cutting out entire food groups like I did when I still cared about weight.
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#103 Old 05-30-2015, 02:56 PM
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All of the women in the pictures and videos I posted are considered overweight or obese using the agreed-upon definition of the term. You can't have it both ways, posting sensationalist statistics about the high percentage of overweight people in the world and then backtracking by saying that your personal definition of the word "overweight" is somehow different. I don't know as well as you do what you imagine an overweight person to be, but I can hazard a guess that you've got an exaggerated picture in your head of someone on the extreme end of the obesity scale, and that it's this image that you picture whenever you talk about fat people, despite the wide grey area in the middle filled with healthy, happy, active individuals whose BMIs happen to place them in the "overweight" category.

Is it the people on the extreme end of the scale who you believe are benefiting from weight loss programs like Freelee's? Is that her target demographic, or are her followers more likely to be women like Rachel in the second video, who adopt extreme diets to change their appearance which easily spiral into disorder?

If you want to talk about health, consider the health effects of yo-yo dieting, cycles of restriction and bingeing, shame and self-hatred. If this were truly about promoting health, these issues would receive more attention from those who engage in fat-shaming.

Consider, also, people like me who have always looked slim despite having unhealthy habits for most of my life. I smoked, drank, didn't exercise, hated sports, avoided the gym, ate large portions and a lot of junk food-- I was basically the personification of all the attributes you imagine fat people to possess, only I wasn't fat. I'm not some outlier, either. There are a great many slim individuals who eat cake and crisps every week, but no one goes after us with the fervour they reserve only for fat people. Instead, they hide their bigotry behind a condescending show of concern to mask their own pettiness.
There is a documentary on Netflix called "Fed Up" about overweight kids. One of the children's family he had two obese parents, he was obese but his two brothers were not. The boy asked the camera why can his brothers eat whatever they wanted and he was eating the same things. The doctors did a test on all three kids, all of them had the same amount of problems and just as unhealthy.
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#104 Old 05-30-2015, 03:02 PM
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fed up sort of bummed me out, because they totally came at the issues from a low carb perspective. Its the sugar making our kids fat, not the massive uptick in animal product consumption.

Not that sugar/sugary drinks arent a part of the issue, but they dont go into how much meat and cheese these kids are eating. Which is a lot.
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#105 Old 05-30-2015, 05:38 PM
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The type of gut bacteria with which you're born appears to be a major factor in what weight you will be, regardless of diet, exercise or other lifestyle factors. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/285122.php
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#106 Old 05-30-2015, 06:32 PM
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The type of gut bacteria with which you're born appears to be a major factor in what weight you will be, regardless of diet, exercise or other lifestyle factors. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/285122.php

The gut bacteria change in response to what you eat, though. These changes take place rapidly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24336217

It's essentially impossible to maintain overweight on a low fat whole foods high fiber plant based diet with no overt sources of fat.

People get full and have to stop eating before they can overeat and the long-term result is a bodyweight on the low side of normal.
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#107 Old 05-30-2015, 07:49 PM
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fed up sort of bummed me out, because they totally came at the issues from a low carb perspective. Its the sugar making our kids fat, not the massive uptick in animal product consumption.

Not that sugar/sugary drinks arent a part of the issue, but they dont go into how much meat and cheese these kids are eating. Which is a lot.
I agree with you, I honestly didn't like it either. I didn't see any of the parents buying fresh produce at all.
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#108 Old 05-30-2015, 08:27 PM
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The gut bacteria change in response to what you eat, though. These changes take place rapidly.
From the study which I quoted above:

"...specific gut microbes are heritable and that the variation of these microbes is not solely influenced by diet, environment, lifestyle and health."
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#109 Old 05-30-2015, 09:55 PM
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From the study which I quoted above:

"...specific gut microbes are heritable and that the variation of these microbes is not solely influenced by diet, environment, lifestyle and health."
This quote is not from the study, it's from a press release.

They aren't saying that you can't make major changes in your biome with appropriate diet.

The biome changes very rapidly in response to different diet. This particular paper did not examine that. They just saw that there was some heritability in a particular strain of bacteria.
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#110 Old 05-31-2015, 04:13 AM
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It's essentially impossible to remain overweight on a low fat whole foods high fiber plant based diet with no overt sources of fat.

People get full and have to stop eating before they can overeat and the long-term result is a bodyweight on the low side of normal.
Even if this were true, do you really believe that a low-fat, whole foods, high fibre diet with no overt sources of fat is a sustainable, healthy, and desirable diet for everyone? Or that "a bodyweight on the low side of normal" is a goal that everyone should want to attain?

Achieving "optimum" physical health and athletic ability is important for some people, and that's fine. If they're successful on a restrictive diet, if they're still getting enough calories and nutrients with their current plan, if they feel happy and stable, that's great for them-- but why is there a need to assume that everyone else in the world would thrive on that same diet?

A person can be perfectly healthy and happy with a weight in the middle or high end of "normal," or in the "overweight" range. Some people-- a great number of people, I imagine-- would be happier and healthier there than if they were to adopt the diet proposed above.

I know that, personally, I'm a healthier individual for allowing myself to eat a slice of my own wedding cake, to try new vegan restaurants with my friends and family, to cook meals that both my husband and I will enjoy, to calmly eat my food without weighing it so that I can plug my daily intake into an online calorie and macro-nutrient calculator...

Honestly, just the thought of doing that makes me profoundly unhappy, and I know myself well enough to realize that focusing on my food to that extent would inevitably lead me to one extreme or another: either competing with myself to eat less each day than the day before, or snapping after a while and eating cupcakes until I feel sick.

I am not unusual in this regard. If you speak to a number of women about their dieting histories, you'll find similar stories of so-called failure which inevitably result in feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred, and often lead to persistent physical health problems as well-- and for what? A bodyweight on the low end of normal? Why is such a body even desirable for someone like me, or for the vast majority of women who aren't models, celebrities, or professional athletes?

Furthermore, why is it any of our business what another person chooses to do with her own body, provided she's not harming anyone? Why is it acceptable to adopt an air of superiority over people larger than us? How does adopting a restrictive diet, nutritionally complete or otherwise, make a person in any way superior? Why do we worship athletes who push their bodies to the extreme even at the expense of their own health (and the healthcare system! gasp!) while looking down on people who aren't particularly concerned with their physique?

In my opinion, this attitude is simply a symptom of a society undeniably obsessed with appearances.
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#111 Old 05-31-2015, 05:28 AM
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Here's an excerpt from a piece by Kate Harding that perhaps does a better job of saying what I've been trying to say, with sources (emphasis mine):

-----

Weight itself is not a health problem, except in the most extreme cases (i.e., being underweight or so fat you’re immobilized). In fact, fat people live longer than thin people and are more likely to survive cardiac events ((This is known as the "obesity paradox." Source: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.co.u...dox-1.html?m=1)) and some studies have shown that fat can protect against “infections, cancer, lung disease, heart disease, osteoporosis, anemia, high blood pressure, rheumatoid arthritis and type 2 diabetes.” ((http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.co.u...it-be.html?m=1))

Now, I’m not saying we should all go out and get fat for our health, but I’m definitely saying obesity research is turning up surprising information all the time — much of which goes ignored by the media — and people who give a damn about critical thinking would be foolish to accept the party line on fat. Just because you’ve heard over and over and over that fat kills doesn’t mean it’s true. It just means that people in this culture really love saying it.

Poor nutrition and a sedentary lifestyle do cause health problems, in people of all sizes. This is why it’s so crucial to separate the concept of “obesity” from “eating crap and not exercising.” The two are simply not synonymous — not even close — and it’s not only incredibly offensive but dangerous for thin people to keep pretending that they are. There are thin people who eat crap and don’t exercise — and are thus putting their health at risk — and there are fat people who treat their bodies very well but remain fat. What’s more, those groups do not represent anomalies; no one has proven that fat people generally eat more or exercise less than thin people.

Diets don’t work in the long-term for a vast majority of people. Most fat people have already dieted repeatedly. And sadly, it’s likely that the dieting will cause them more health problems than the fat. ((An abstract for a study which shows that intentional weight loss through yo-yo dieting can cause long-term damage to the immune system: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?c..._uids=15175588))

Human beings deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Fat people are human beings. Even fat people who are unhealthy still deserve dignity and respect. If shame made people thin, there wouldn’t be a fat person in this country.
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#112 Old 05-31-2015, 05:39 AM
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Years ago I watched a documentary where a tribal group of people living in a remote jungle somewhere and living very primitively were exposed to western media over time. Before being exposed, most of the women were average weight, maybe a little on the plump side (which dispels the myth that primitive people are all lean muscle), men were somewhat small, and eating disorders were rare. There were still certain standards within their culture based on beliefs and traditions and so on, but not to the extent that they would damage their bodies to meet a standard. At any rate, over time the group was exposed to various forms of social media depicting Western culture's ideal of men and women. Over time all of them were influenced and practices of bulimia, binge eating, and restricting became far more prevalent. I am frantically searching for that study right now but the closest thing I can find to it is this paper:

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/29049..._disorders.pdf

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Westernization: The Role of Mass Media on Body Image and Eating Disorders
Personally, I can not go that low in fat. My average is about 15% and if I go too long below that, I end up having a massive binge. I always drop weight very fast when my fat intake dips lower (such as 10%), despite increasing caloric intake but doing that for an extended period of time damaged my body in many ways. Eating a very low fat diet led to hair loss and thinning, thyroid not functioning as well (as evidenced by periodic blood tests as I have had hypothyroidism for years), bone density worse etc. I feel better and have more stamina and satiety (which is different than fullness...I can be full and still hungry) when I include some source of fat in my diet most days (nuts,seeds, nut/seed butter, avocado etc). It's just a small amount. I still rarely use oil but do use a little here and there. I am still cautious with eating. But I know dang well that if I don't include some fat in my diet I will inevitably binge (and I am talking 4000-10000 calories here in a short time, not the typical overate a little here and there kind of bingeing). Some people feel better low fat and that's fine. I just get tired of people pushing that at me. I have very low cholesterol levels, low triglycerides, excellent LDL/HDL and a little fat in my diet is not a huge concern for my particular situation. I am also active and healthy fat gives me stamina and that extra oomph. My body will usually let me know if I am consuming too much for comfort because I get an upset stomach. Too little and I feel weak and hungry all the time. I am still learning to listen to my body and my own needs and not to live up to others standards of what is healthy because very few people can agree on that. Every day I hear that gluten and wheat are "bad", fat is bad, sugar is bad, fruit is bad, cooked food is bad, too much or too little protein are bad etc. With a history of an eating disorder, my mind can run with all that. The real challenge for me is to not focus so much on food and food rules and focus instead on other worthy goes in life. I still focus probably too much on my body and exercise, but I have a new and challenging job that doesn't allow for quite as much of that. To help get myself back out of the last relapse I had in my own eating disorder, I used to leaflet for Vegan Outreach and challenge myself to be more assertive etc and work for a larger cause. It helped take the focus off food and body weight.

Also, as someone who has suffered with an eating disorder for many many years (clinically diagnosed anorexia nervosa for most of it but periods of binge purge subtype, and now EDNOS), I don't blame my ED on media or any particular idol etc. It is a complicated disorder and there were many factors that came together to cause my eating disorder. I am EDNOS now, not fully recovered but very far from the hell I endure for six years. Sure media can be triggering though and does have somewhat of an influence if I am in the right mindset. I can also choose to shut out messages I hear daily about how I should look and eat and who I should be and in fact I have the strength to do that most of the time now, but not always. I still have that inner dialogue going on critiquing myself constantly. I suspect a lot of people have that going on and I have to believe it is due to at least some social media conditioning. I try to stay away from videos and other media that are too triggering for me, hence why I have only watched one or two of Freelee's videos.

I once had a psychiatrist actually compliment me on how great I looked and how fit when I had dropped to a bmi in the 15 range (my bmi went much lower than that later). I kid you not. At my highest weight ever my bmi was only 22 (after i quit smoking in 2006 and before my eating disorder took hold) and I heard constant messages about how I should be doing this and that to tone my body etc. Boy did I run with that...

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#113 Old 05-31-2015, 07:20 AM
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naturebound, I too eat more fat than the ultra low fat folks recommend, and I have positive results with that.

But I see where they are coming from. When I first heard about the low fat plant based diet I was eating copious butter, full fat cheese, milk, and various meats for health. My mom used to love Sally Fallon, and would tell me that butter helps you keep slim and healthy, so eat a lot of it! (this did not prove true for me, as you can imagine)

And at the time I was cooking in oils, eating thickly spread peanut butter sandwiches, etc...

I think they (WFPB docs) overshoot in their recommendations in the hopes that people will be more cautious with their food choices.

So while I used to cook pancakes in butter, eat them with cream/butter on top, and lots of syrup, and say "it has real butter, so its healthy".

Now I feel like, you know what would be so luxurious? a handful of smoked almonds, or an order of Guacamole when out at a mexican place. And I feel like I am having a real treat. (bonus, almonds are both high fat and healthful!)
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#114 Old 05-31-2015, 07:25 AM
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I even eat french fries sometimes, and I dont feel guilty about that either. I eat french fries far less often than I did as an omni, because if I having that high fat/lower nutrient food, they better be amazing. So I dont order them everywhere, but when I do, (from one local place in particular) I really enjoy them.
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#115 Old 05-31-2015, 08:05 AM
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This is off topic, but you keep mentioning smoked almonds and they sound amazing. I really want to try them but I've never seen them anywhere! One day...
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#116 Old 05-31-2015, 08:15 AM
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Lately I seem to have come across so many people that are determined to paint Freelee as a bad person and a completely crazy, judgemental vegan.

I've always said her lifestyle can be considered extreme and not to listen to everything that she says, but am also aware that her overall message is great and clear and that she's a wonderful activist from having converted thousands of people to veganism.

Would any of you rather her not be in the public eye because of the stuff she does wrong, even though she's converted thousands? I guess it's a bit like the controversy of Gary.
my opinion on vegan activists of any kind is that

#1 it's better to be out there saying something than doing nothing

#2 it's dangerous for us viewers/followers/observers to place *anyone* Gary, Freelee, etc on a inhuman pedestal- when they then act human we get pissed off.

#3 you don't have to agree with them 100% of the time to gain something from their message

#4 different approaches reach and affect different people. even if i don't agree with an approach or wouldn't do it myself, others go vegan from it, so who am i to say?

the one think i'll never support, though, is activists advocating "humane" practices. or that "dairy and eggs aren't that bad" etc.

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#117 Old 05-31-2015, 08:39 AM
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my opinion on vegan activists of any kind is that

#1 it's better to be out there saying something than doing nothing

#2 it's dangerous for us viewers/followers/observers to place *anyone* Gary, Freelee, etc on a inhuman pedestal- when they then act human we get pissed off.

#3 you don't have to agree with them 100% of the time to gain something from their message

#4 different approaches reach and affect different people. even if i don't agree with an approach or wouldn't do it myself, others go vegan from it, so who am i to say?

the one think i'll never support, though, is activists advocating "humane" practices. or that "dairy and eggs aren't that bad" etc.
I agree, with one additional exception: when an activist promotes dangerous behaviour-- for instance, encouraging women to try for a thigh gap or advocating for violence against non-vegans-- I consider it our obligation to speak up against it.
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#118 Old 05-31-2015, 08:44 AM
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essentially the problem hear is non of you have the willpower to lose weight, if you don't want to lose weight thats grand, but saying that people try and then eat loads of cup cakes suggests other wise,

stop bashing people that do eat heathy, and look good, i don't thing its a good idea to eat 30 bananas a day, but hey who am i to say that, free lee looks pretty good.

and I'm not going to talk about the fat is health thing again

stop looking for excuses that you should be fat, of corse not every one wants to be thin, but that dose not mean you should discourage others from doing so.

young people wanting to have a good body is not a product the media.
in tribal days young mails develop muscle, while trying to compete for the position of alfa male, and be an attractive mate there noting wrong with that.
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#119 Old 05-31-2015, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Here's an excerpt from a piece by Kate Harding that perhaps does a better job of saying what I've been trying to say, with sources (emphasis mine):

-----

Weight itself is not a health problem, except in the most extreme cases (i.e., being underweight or so fat you’re immobilized). In fact, fat people live longer than thin people and are more likely to survive cardiac events ((This is known as the "obesity paradox." Source: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.co.u...dox-1.html?m=1)) and some studies have shown that fat can protect against “infections, cancer, lung disease, heart disease, osteoporosis, anemia, high blood pressure, rheumatoid arthritis and type 2 diabetes.” ((http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.co.u...it-be.html?m=1))

Now, I’m not saying we should all go out and get fat for our health, but I’m definitely saying obesity research is turning up surprising information all the time — much of which goes ignored by the media — and people who give a damn about critical thinking would be foolish to accept the party line on fat. Just because you’ve heard over and over and over that fat kills doesn’t mean it’s true. It just means that people in this culture really love saying it.

Poor nutrition and a sedentary lifestyle do cause health problems, in people of all sizes. This is why it’s so crucial to separate the concept of “obesity” from “eating crap and not exercising.” The two are simply not synonymous — not even close — and it’s not only incredibly offensive but dangerous for thin people to keep pretending that they are. There are thin people who eat crap and don’t exercise — and are thus putting their health at risk — and there are fat people who treat their bodies very well but remain fat. What’s more, those groups do not represent anomalies; no one has proven that fat people generally eat more or exercise less than thin people.

Diets don’t work in the long-term for a vast majority of people. Most fat people have already dieted repeatedly. And sadly, it’s likely that the dieting will cause them more health problems than the fat. ((An abstract for a study which shows that intentional weight loss through yo-yo dieting can cause long-term damage to the immune system: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?c..._uids=15175588))

Human beings deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Fat people are human beings. Even fat people who are unhealthy still deserve dignity and respect. If shame made people thin, there wouldn’t be a fat person in this country.
I agree completely with what she said. In my home country there are many poor people who don't get enough to eat, they don't drive and walk a lot and they are still overweight. Some of these people are lucky if they get rice twice a week. I had to watch a documentary called "Half the Sky" which focused a lot on poor women. Many of these women did not have enough money to eat or only ate leftovers from what their husbands ate and were still overweight. This was especially true of women who have had children. They weren't living sedentary life styles either, many were cleaning the house and walking where ever they needed to go. If you look at pictures and paintings from the olden days many people were overweight. They didn't even have fast food. I honestly think the fat shaming and thinking people are fat because they are lazy and eat too much is horrible and needs to stop. Skinny people get diabetes, heart disease and everything else. Everyone has their own body type and people should be accepting of that.
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#120 Old 05-31-2015, 12:11 PM
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essentially the problem hear is non of you have the willpower to lose weight, if you don't want to lose weight thats grand, but saying that people try and then eat loads of cup cakes suggests other wise,
I'm not sure that I should dignify this with a response, considering that you clearly haven't been reading my posts. If you had, you would know that I'm not even part of the group Freelee is targeting. I've always been slim, even when I ate horribly and never exercised. That's part of the reason why this weight/health correlation strikes me as utterly ridiculous. I don't have to be fat to recognize fat shaming, and I don't have to be a member of a particular group to speak out against prejudice and stereotyping. Besides, the very system that degrades and dehumanises fat people affects us all, fat or thin. My body isn't anyone's to police or comment upon, and neither is yours.


Quote:
stop bashing people that do eat heathy, and look good, i don't thing its a good idea to eat 30 bananas a day, but hey who am i to say that, free lee looks pretty good.
I challenge you to quote even one instance where I've bashed people for their healthy eating habits or for looking good. You might want to grab a snack beforehand, because you'll be searching for a very long time.

I have no problem with the way Freelee looks. Her body is none of my business, and neither is her diet. My issue with Freelee-- and I really do think I've made this incredibly clear at numerous points in this discussion-- is that she's promoting her own body type as the only acceptable and healthy body type to the detriment of all others, insulting and demoralizing women larger than her, and encouraging those women to adopt a restrictive weight loss diet which could very well lead them to harm.

You seem to be implying that fat people never make healthy choices and that they look "bad" to you. Why should your subjective aesthetic opinion hold any sway whatsoever in determining what others do with their own lives? Doesn't that strike you as a rather entitled and superficial stance to adopt?

Quote:
and I'm not going to talk about the fat is health thing again
Of course you're not.

Quote:
stop looking for excuses that you should be fat, of corse not every one wants to be thin, but that dose not mean you should discourage others from doing so.
I've already stated quite openly that I have no desire to change my body one way or another, to gain or to lose weight, because I'm happy and healthy just where I am. Furthermore, I find it telling that you feel that a fat person should need an "excuse" to look the way she does. In my opinion, you're the one who should be justifying your bigotry. What's your excuse for making sweeping generalizations about other people based solely on appearance?

Quote:
young people wanting to have a good body is not a product the media.
in tribal days young mails develop muscle, while trying to compete for the position of alfa male, and be an attractive mate there noting wrong with that.
I'm genuinely not sure of the point you're trying to make here. Could you please clarify?
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