Vegan as f**k
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worthing, England
I met someone with some very strong opinions regarding the medical industry, he genuinely believed that all doctors were evil people out to steal your money, to make you even more sick so you have to stay on medicines.
-This is paranoid.
What would we do if we didn't have modern medicine?
-On average, people would die younger and the population of the Earth would be lower.
Would it be possible to have developed these things without vivisection?
-Some treatments may have developed more slowly without animal experimentation. For example some surgical techniques. Some technologies have developed without any animal involvement.
Would it be better off if modern medicine had never developed, resulting in a smaller population that would not require factory farming?
-It would be better if it had developed more ethically. I think modern medicine could develop in an ethical manner if investments were made into alternatives to animal testing. For example increased computational modelling and use of certain ethically acceptable cloning techniques to clone human organs (livers/ kidneys).
Are the scientists who perform testings bad people?
-Some might be bad people. Most are people who genuinely believe that animals are inferior to humans and are here to be used as they have been brainwashed from birth into thinking this. Does this make them "bad"? Maybe, or perhaps it just makes them grossly delusional.
Has vivisection had a place in developing veterinary care for animals?
-Without it development may have been slower.
Is someone who needs to take medication that has most likely been tested on animals not vegan?
-If that person needs the medicine to survive then I think it would be unfair to say they weren't vegan for taking it.
I'm too lazy to google this, but nazis experimented on humans. And those advanced some of the medicine and techniques we use today. so if that logic is used we are all nazis.
edit: sorry I might've read your post wrong. anyways, this is my counter argument if someone says medicine was developed by experimenting on animals, if you are a vegan you shouldn't take medicine.
There's one argument I've heard against veganism that I'm not sure how to counter, which is:" if everyone went vegan and we didnt have all the animal manure the animal industry "produce", we wouldnt not have enough organic/enviromental fertilization for all the plants we eat." I suggested using human waste instead, as they supposedly do in some parts of the world (Haiti for example) but was told that it doesn't work in most places. Also apparently you need to change the fertilization method after some years for it to work properly?
I'm really not well-read on farming (tbh I barely know what Im talking about) so I have no idea if this is a reasonable argument, but I got quite taken aback when I heard it. Also since it's been mostly farmers giving me this argument I'm in a pretty inferior position. If anyone knows a bit more or has any counter argument, feel free to let me know!
Also, raising a kid vegan in today's world is scary. Talk about judgement!
And those news stories that come out every so often about kids wasting away on a "vegan" diet... (it always turns out that that the parents were underfeeding/doing something crazy though) public opinion is against raising kids in that way.
Even having a vegan pregnancy is frowned upon.
My best friend was so concerned about my son's meatless diet she advised me that I would probably need to get him a feeding tube, to ensure he got adequate calories and proteins.
Even though my son is normal weight (on the slim side) and good height. I told my friend that his pediatrician said he is doing okay, so we are not worried. But my friend was really concerned, because he doesnt eat red meat or eggs. (or any other meats for that matter, but my friend thinks red meat is the most nutritious)
From a nutritional point of view, there are almost no benefits from becoming vegans. The benefits come from eating unprocessed and raw foods, not from staying away from meat and diary products.
I am raw vegan myself but I am absolutely sure that raw foodism is way healthier than a vegan diet that includes all kind of refined sugars and starchy foods like potatoes, bread, rice, etc.
Even if you add cooked meat to the raw food you are still way better than a "dirty" vegan diet.
Even a cooked, whole foods diet, including healthiest meat is better than a "dirty" vegan diet
Refined sugars and starchy foods lead very quickly to all kind of troubles like obesity, diabetes, hearth problems, etc, much faster than eating animal fat and meat.
Not that I want to actually test raw foodism on myself - raw veganism is better, in my view.
"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge