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#1 Old 09-28-2014, 11:25 AM
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Thumbs down Incompetent Family

My dad is super stubborn in his ways and is not willing to open up his little carnivorous shell... I'm not trying to force my veganism onto him, I just want to express my opinions and he does not let me do it at all. I was trying to convince him that honey is not vegan and why bee keeping is inhumane and he just kept on saying honey was so good for you, and there is no way you can treat bees inhumanely and that they don't matter. He is not only stubborn when it comes to his diet, but he is stubborn about everything and does not even try to embrace what I believe in when I have the facts towering over him.

This got me super riled up and annoyed with him, because I understand that I can't get him to become a vegan (he is obsessed with getting enough protein, nice excuse!) but it is insulting to me that he doesn't even process my opinions and is insulting the one thing that I would die for in my life (saving as many living creatures as I can). I asked him where he got his "facts" and he said he didn't do any research so I asked him how he knew this stuff and he couldn't give me an answer.

~

I'm just saying, I'm not trying to be sassy, I just wanted to get this off my chest. :-)


Have you guys had to deal with family who just wouldn't even listen to what you had to say?
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#2 Old 09-28-2014, 11:49 AM
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*raises hand* I do. It's my mom, rather then my dad...She says she and Dad "need meat" in their diet...I really want to disabuse that particular notion, but not sure how. Both have heart trouble (Dad has stents in his heart, Mom got a pacemaker put in in Feb of this year, and she's had pericarditis). Also, Dad's had blood sugar issues recently, with low blood sugar, and his brother just lost a leg to onset diabetes. I'm not trying to upstage your thread, just letting you know there's someone else out there that knows what you are going through. Hang in there.

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#3 Old 09-28-2014, 11:56 AM
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*raises hand* I do. It's my mom, rather then my dad...She says she and Dad "need meat" in their diet...I really want to disabuse that particular notion, but not sure how. Both have heart trouble (Dad has stents in his heart, Mom got a pacemaker put in in Feb of this year, and she's had pericarditis). Also, Dad's had blood sugar issues recently, with low blood sugar, and his brother just lost a leg to onset diabetes. I'm not trying to upstage your thread, just letting you know there's someone else out there that knows what you are going through. Hang in there.
I am so sorry that your family is going through pain <3
Maybe you can show them that meat and dairy is contributing to their health and there are simple steps they can take that will not only help them, but the world around them as well. Perhaps if you give them the straight up facts they will be more willing to try?

~

My mom was sitting on the couch with my dad when I was arguing with him, and she was supporting me which really meant a lot because she is willing to learn, and she is a pescetarian herself, and I asked her if one day she would be vegan and she said yes, but she would need to do her research first. <3
I also sort of helped convince my dad to use less cream in his coffee, and he has been getting stiff fingers that he can't move in the morning and he thinks his excessive dairy could be contributing, but I highly doubt he will ever be vegetarian/vegan.
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#4 Old 09-28-2014, 02:45 PM
 
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okay do you live with these people? Well if it were my world I would agree to disagree about this topic. Why challenge your dad in his own home? You know he is stubborn. Instead just try to lead by example, how good your food looks, how healthy you become.

You have to pick your battles in this war. This is not one you will win verbally with your dad. I am not saying you are not right and I DO agree with your points, but why bother. Save your breath to talk to someone you might actually influence.
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#5 Old 09-28-2014, 02:47 PM
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I've been a vegetarian for 15 years. My dad is an avid hunter/carnivore and makes fun of all me for being a "liberal, tree hugging, earth muffin granola" and takes great joy in telling all his buddies I eat twigs and berries and rabbit food and how he should join PETA too ("People Eating Tasty Animals" hahaha. Not that I'm not even really in support of PETA the legitimate organization in the first place, but he'd never know that because all he's never asked). I eventually just reached a point where it is not worth discussing the matter with him (or several other family members any more). They have no desire to learn, no respect for people with differing opinions, they are stuck in their ways, immature and nothing positive or productive comes from it. All they want to do is argue for their own satisfaction of feeling 'right', and I don't argue for kicks and giggles. If the subject comes up, I am the bigger person and either ignore it and/or move the conversation onto a different and less argumentative subject. I don't need my dad or anyone else's approval on my dietary choices and do not acknowledge disrespect by dishing it right back. I have had constructive discussions with solid facts presented on both sides (veg and omni) with other people where no insults were being thrown and everyone was expressing themselves respectfully. No one knows everything about a subject. I don't mind that, but I don't appreciate outright rudeness nor will I feed that fire.

Sometimes in life, there are going to be people who disagree and can't leave it at that. They feed off your anger and sew seeds of doubt because you disagree with them. It's not healthy to discuss opposing views with people like that, family or otherwise. If I were you, I would tell him that this is your choice and if he ever wants to know more about your decision you'd be happy to help him find some independent-from-you resources so he can do his own research and draw his own conclusions. Otherwise, you'd prefer not to discuss the matter any further with him. That'll throw him for a loop as he expects you to continue arguing with him, while still bringing a respectful conclusion to a argument you'll likely never win with him. I wish you good luck, it's tough having a family who isn't happy with who you turned out to be over something like a dietary choice. Makes you a stronger person for sticking to what you feel is right!
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Last edited by Kiwibird08; 09-28-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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#6 Old 10-04-2014, 05:26 AM
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Have you guys had to deal with family who just wouldn't even listen to what you had to say?
If your Dad doesn't want to listen, it might be hard to ever change his mind. Maybe agree to disagree?

We have these close friends that eat like cr*p......every meal is processed, packaged junk. If they actually "cook" a meal.....like a chicken dish, it's covered in sauce or gravy, etc. Any a large desert is ALWAYS eaten at most meals.

After I went veg*n, the wife was interested in eating a healthier diet. I got her going on a few veggie days per week. She started making spaghetti sauce with Morningstar meal crumbles.....feeding the kids "fake" hot dogs, etc. All was OK until the hubby realized what was going on, & he wanted none of it.

Fast forward a year, or so....both parents are obese, to say the least. The 2 kids look like Cartman from South Park. Their faces are fat, they have double chins, and the oldest is only 10. They have to swim with their shirts on, to hide their bellies. One kid fell off the monkey bars at school, since he could not hold himself up, and hurt his arm in the fall.

I've mentioned several times that their diet is going to have bad consequences. The kids will end up with diabetes, the parents will have high cholesterol, etc. I don't want them to convert to veganism overnight.....but maybe just try eating an apple instead of a Pop Tart. They eat no fruit, whatsoever. In fact, I gave the younger kid some watermelon, which he had NEVER TASTED, and he spit it out.

All you can do, is all you can do. All I can do now is watch the declining health of these people and hope that some day the light will turn on.
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All animals should be respected & should have the ability to lead a natural & enjoyable life. This means not eating them, or abusing them in any way.
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#7 Old 10-04-2014, 05:07 PM
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Question--what does "incompetent" mean in this context?

Beanitarian.
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#8 Old 10-14-2014, 11:59 AM
 
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Both of my parents were meat eaters and I was force fed for most of my childhood. Red meat usually 3 times a week, sometimes more. I realized at one point that it was giving me health issues, but appeals to my parents fell on deaf ears. My father said, "You'll get sick if you don't eat meat." My mother as it later turned out had a serious mental illness( I always knew she was little off, but it was actually a lot worse) and she ruled with a heavy hand if you catch my drift so I basically had to go along with eating meat. I left home at 18. I did contemplate actually running away at one point during my childhood, but as all of the relatives I chose as possible destination options were also meat eaters as well as "disciplinarians" and as such I decided to stay put . . . a decision I still believe was prudent. However, the meat eating caused me serious health issues and 30 years later I am still paying the price for it. I actually could be a good poster person for vegetarian/veganism.
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#9 Old 10-14-2014, 02:15 PM
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The first time I told my mother I was eating vegan she replied 'You're selfish, and being idiotic. I don't know who you are anymore!' Everyone in my family are carnivores and they love it - they give satisfying moans when they dig into the chicken and my grandfather loves to pick at the carcass afterwards. Everyone thought, and still thinks, I'm ridiculous for being vegan. One of my friends told me I was 'miserable' for being vegan, and that I didn't enjoy my life! What I have learnt with debates about veganism is that the argument isn't about YOU, it becomes about THEM. You become a physical conscience for them, a constant reminder that they support murder and abuse. Most people will automatically feel inferior to you because you are more compassionate, generous, aware and independent. There are going to be two people you encounter who fight you on your veganism - people who simply don't get it, and people who don't WANT to get it because they like living in their bubble. Your father sounds like the first one. My grandfather is the first too.

I have learnt a valuable lesson about how the tone and shape of your words can change the picture you paint completely. This has helped me to come up with a specific way of dealing with these confrontations, and so far no one has managed to contest me or even tried to. When they ask me why I'm vegan, or any question similar to that (we all know the "where do you get your protein from?"), I reply "I love being a compassionate person. I love wanting the best for others and one day I hope that mentality will spread, and we will all one day learn that freedom is the best thing you can give another animal. I do what I can to make sure that I love unconditionally, and love wholeheartedly. There is not a more amazing feeling for me than knowing that I love everyone, and everything nature provides us with." Now can you imagine how silly your father would sound replying with one of his usual remarks? Seriously, reply with something along these lines and people just cannot fire back. Set a good vegan example - don't worry about how many people you can convert and whether they agree with you, worry about what kind of person people think you are and whether you are inspirational to those around you Your father is one man out of billions that will love hearing about your veganism - I am one of those people

Keep your chin up! We're all in this together
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#10 Old 10-15-2014, 05:55 PM
 
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Good insights and advice, lightergait. One of the things to remember about our folks generation((I'm in my early 50's) is that they were products of the Depression era where food was frequently scarce. In my mother's case, she came from a large family. In my father's case, he got stranded in Germany as a child during World War 2. In addition, his stepdad was a big meat eater too, and no doubt ths was a contributing factor as well. Still, I believe that one should be respectful of other people's wishes, and in my case, that was absent. As you correctly pointed out, it was all about THEM. In fact, my mother as I later learned had Munchausen Syndrome, and it doesn't get any more THEM than that. ; )


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Originally Posted by lightergait View Post
The first time I told my mother I was eating vegan she replied 'You're selfish, and being idiotic. I don't know who you are anymore!' Everyone in my family are carnivores and they love it - they give satisfying moans when they dig into the chicken and my grandfather loves to pick at the carcass afterwards. Everyone thought, and still thinks, I'm ridiculous for being vegan. One of my friends told me I was 'miserable' for being vegan, and that I didn't enjoy my life! What I have learnt with debates about veganism is that the argument isn't about YOU, it becomes about THEM. You become a physical conscience for them, a constant reminder that they support murder and abuse. Most people will automatically feel inferior to you because you are more compassionate, generous, aware and independent. There are going to be two people you encounter who fight you on your veganism - people who simply don't get it, and people who don't WANT to get it because they like living in their bubble. Your father sounds like the first one. My grandfather is the first too.

I have learnt a valuable lesson about how the tone and shape of your words can change the picture you paint completely. This has helped me to come up with a specific way of dealing with these confrontations, and so far no one has managed to contest me or even tried to. When they ask me why I'm vegan, or any question similar to that (we all know the "where do you get your protein from?"), I reply "I love being a compassionate person. I love wanting the best for others and one day I hope that mentality will spread, and we will all one day learn that freedom is the best thing you can give another animal. I do what I can to make sure that I love unconditionally, and love wholeheartedly. There is not a more amazing feeling for me than knowing that I love everyone, and everything nature provides us with." Now can you imagine how silly your father would sound replying with one of his usual remarks? Seriously, reply with something along these lines and people just cannot fire back. Set a good vegan example - don't worry about how many people you can convert and whether they agree with you, worry about what kind of person people think you are and whether you are inspirational to those around you Your father is one man out of billions that will love hearing about your veganism - I am one of those people

Keep your chin up! We're all in this together
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#11 Old 10-16-2014, 07:36 PM
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#12 Old 10-18-2014, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by VeganSince12 View Post
My dad is super stubborn in his ways and is not willing to open up his little carnivorous shell... I'm not trying to force my veganism onto him, I just want to express my opinions and he does not let me do it at all. I was trying to convince him that honey is not vegan and why bee keeping is inhumane and he just kept on saying honey was so good for you, and there is no way you can treat bees inhumanely and that they don't matter. He is not only stubborn when it comes to his diet, but he is stubborn about everything and does not even try to embrace what I believe in when I have the facts towering over him.

This got me super riled up and annoyed with him, because I understand that I can't get him to become a vegan (he is obsessed with getting enough protein, nice excuse!) but it is insulting to me that he doesn't even process my opinions and is insulting the one thing that I would die for in my life (saving as many living creatures as I can). I asked him where he got his "facts" and he said he didn't do any research so I asked him how he knew this stuff and he couldn't give me an answer.

~

I'm just saying, I'm not trying to be sassy, I just wanted to get this off my chest. :-)


Have you guys had to deal with family who just wouldn't even listen to what you had to say?
Yeah, if I have family members that eat meat and they act like idiots... I just make fun of their weight or cholesterol. I don't really put the effort of trying to be nice to idiots.
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Last edited by Diesel; 10-18-2014 at 11:26 PM.
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#13 Old 10-21-2014, 01:31 PM
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I know where your coming from.

My entire family is pretty much the same. None of them are willing to pay any attention to my point of view or any advice or help I might give them and tend to devalue me and anything I say or do because I'm not just like they are; conservative rednecks. Even when it comes to things at which they know I am an expert or at least more knowledgeable than they are, such as; sewing, cooking, art or photography for example. They treat me like I'm stupid even though I have a high IQ and always did well in school. It can be very frustrating and I believe it would be the same if I weren't a vegan. They can also get very defensive when I try to be helpful, or, for example; when I asked my sister once, very nicely, while she was visiting, to please not leave the trash bin on the driveway where I park my car, but put it more to the side, she got angry about it and I still can't imagine how that could offend when I was being very nice about it and I moved the trash bin myself. They are also very passive aggressive about my art and try in various ways to impede or prevent me from drawing and painting when they can. Which I also don't understand because several of my/their ancestors and relatives were artists, musicians and poets.

My point is; just try to be the best person YOU can be, do what makes you happy and don't obsess about not having the full support of your family. Not everyone is flexible enough or open minded enough to admit that the way they were taught to live and think may not necessarily be the best way. At least you know that you are doing the right thing. Plus, you might consider that your father's attitude may be the same if you weren't vegan. It may be because he feels that because he's your father, he has more experience and knowledge than you, (even in situations where he really doesn't).
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