Protein Recommendations - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 6Likes
  • 1 Post By Vanilla Gorilla
  • 2 Post By danakscully64
  • 1 Post By odizzido
  • 1 Post By LedBoots
  • 1 Post By odizzido
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 09-18-2014, 05:21 AM
Newbie
 
brian313313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Protein Recommendations

Hi,

I became vegan at the beginning of this year and did quite well for a while. After about two months, I started getting weaker and having loss of energy. At around 6 months, I did a 3 day food journal and calculated my protein and I was definitely low. I couldn't figure out what else to do so I added eggs back in. Since I've added eggs back, I've felt a lot better and had more energy. I would like to find a good vegan source for protein but have not been able to.

I am a runner and have higher protein needs than average. I forget the numbers right now but I used several sources that I'd consider reliable and made an educated guess as to what would be a good number that made sense. To hit that number, I would have to eat almost all beans. I'm hoping that someone can recommend something. Powders, tofu, tempeh, ... those don't work for me. They just don't fill me up. Beans do but I just can't eat enough and still eat my veggies, fruits, etc. Is there some alternative I'm missing?

Thanks.
brian313313 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 09-18-2014, 06:08 AM
 
Reila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Hi! When you're vegan you can no more think about protein, but about amino acids, that form proteins. When you eat a slice of meat you get all the essential amino acids, but when you're vegan you have to eat legumes and cereals together to get what you need.
So maybe this is your problem, you eat enogh beans but not with cereals, so you don't get what you need to build up your protein therefore you feel weak.
I don't know if you already do this, but you should eat cereals and legumes in the same meal, like pasta with beans or lentils. It's also helpful to change the type of legumes as often as you can. Chocolate and pine nuts also help!

I hope you can get through all this
And sorry for my bad english maybe what i wrote suonds a little rude, but just becouse i can't write very well in english, so sorry!
Reila is offline  
#3 Old 09-18-2014, 06:22 AM
Newbie
 
brian313313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Thanks for the reply and nothing sounded rude to me. I did not track the specific amino acids so that is a possibility also. I do eat a variety of items though. I am a little light on grains generally as they do not fill me up. I prefer greens & beans generally. I do vary the beans quite a bit. One of my favorite recipes is a 15 bean stew.
brian313313 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 09-18-2014, 07:11 AM
Veggie Regular
 
azerea_02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 566
You say you did a food log and noticed you weren't getting enough protein. Did you happen to look at your overall calorie intake? You don't sound like someone who would subsist off junk food, so if you're eating varied plant foods, than as long as you are getting enough calories, you are getting enough protein. Calories will also help with more energy
azerea_02 is offline  
#5 Old 09-18-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Reila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Unfortunately legumes don't have all the amino acids necessary for our orgnism. Neither do cereals, but if you eat both of them in the same meal (it's important that you eat them together!) you will have all waht you need You can also just eat a slice of bread and i't enough!
Reila is offline  
#6 Old 09-18-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Vanilla Gorilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 89
Hi. Congrats on seeing the light and going vegan. I was once in the exact same boat as you are in now. I'm going to assume your coming from a western diet. The reason I say that is because we (I came from a western diet) are led to believe we need heaps of protein. This is only true if you are a dedicated body builder.

Protein doesn't really give you energy. It's primary role is in tissue repair and regeneration. Your body's preferred fuel source is carbohydrates.

If you look at most vegan endurance athletes you'll notice they usually consume 10% or less of their total calories from protein. The ideal diet for endurance athletes is a high carb, low protein, low fat diet.

This is the diet I switched to after struggling with digestive issues and lack of energy on a regular vegan diet. My mistake was transferring what I had been taught about nutrition on a western diet and applying to a vegan diet. Which was to keep protein and fat intake higher than carbohydrates. Forget that!

Ever think about why beans keep you full longer than say fruit? It takes more energy to digest protein than simple carbs. That's energy you can't use for other things, like running.

Make sure you cover your bases. Things like low B12 or iron will make you feel sluggish and tired. I highly recommend you use Cronometer to track your micro and macro nutrients. It was pivotal in guiding me to the success I have now.

Have a look at Brendan Braziers Thrive diet. It's a step in the right direction for athletes and perfect for new vegans. Even better is the 80/10/10 diet. That is how I eat. The more raw the better but cooked is fine. It just depends on what level you want to take it. Also read through my conversations in this thread.

https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/11-vegetarian-support-forum/153482-simple-cheap-healthy-fast-daily-vegetarian-meals-2.html#post3406945

Let us know how it's going from time to time. Happy running.
seedgirl likes this.
Vanilla Gorilla is offline  
#7 Old 09-18-2014, 09:22 AM
Newbie
 
brian313313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Thanks for the comments everyone.

For my food log, I don't recall specific calories counts. There were times at the beginning of vegan that my calories were too low until I got used to eating more quantity. I also ate too many fruits at the beginning and started blood sugar spiking which led to excessive hunger. The low energy started after I worked those issues out and was more continuous so I'm not inclined to think that low calories was the problem. I generally eat when hungry and with the running I maintain a good weight since changing to veg*n.

As far as the amount of protein, I was losing muscle mass and lifting strength. A good sign that I wasn't getting enough of something. I'm not sure if I was missing protein or just a specific amino acid though. I'm not a dedicated weight lifter but I go once/week so I don't get the "runners" build. I haven't added a ton of eggs, just two on running days. It was more of an emergency measure since I was feeling too lousy to do the research at the time and knew eggs were a complete protein. I was on closer to 10% before adding them, which was the recommendation I picked up from the nomeatathlete.com. I feel like I need a little more. This is based on other recommendations and how I feel. Of my sources, this was the lowest. I'm closer to 15% now and feel great and my muscle mass has been coming back. Also energy and motivation. I could switch out something for the eggs and track the amino acids for a while. Once I get used to what's in what it will become easier.

I'll take a look at Cronometer & the Thrive diet. My B12 & iron are good though. I get tested every 3 months since I take a thyroid medicine.

I've also been researching today and notice that quinoa is high protein and something I don't eat much. That is something that makes me feel full also so that may be a good source to add.
brian313313 is offline  
#8 Old 09-18-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
So you're saying eggs fill you up more than beans, tempeh, etc?? I don't mean this in a rude way it's just surprising! I never personally found eggs to be that filling. What about peas, quinoa, hemp seed or chia seeds? Also, I've never tried seitan but I know it has a lot of protein. I've made a couple dishes with tofu that imitate eggs, like a tofu scramble or tofu "egg salad", both quite good and a lot of protein.
vegan_annie is offline  
#9 Old 09-18-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Vanilla Gorilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 89
Just out of curiosity are you hyper or hypo? Thyroid meds, as you probably know, can cause all types of symptoms. Particularly with a change in diet. Even gluten plays a part.
Vanilla Gorilla is offline  
#10 Old 09-18-2014, 11:37 AM
Newbie
 
brian313313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
I haven't eaten eggs by themselves so I can't say they fill me up. I put a couple in a large bowl of cooked veggies for breakfast after a run. It's actually made on the weekend and microwaved in the am. I have a tofu/carrot scramble recipe that's pretty good. I don't think it would freeze well though.

My issue was lack of energy and muscle deterioration. I was not hungry though. For hunger just eating the bowl of cooked veggies by themselves is good. It's usually potatoes, onions, peppers, some greens, and anything else I feel like with a little salt & pepper or maybe a little hot sauce. Other days I'll eat a green smoothie & bread with peanut butter.
brian313313 is offline  
#11 Old 09-18-2014, 11:44 AM
 
seedgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 160
Vanilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post
Hi. Congrats on seeing the light and going vegan. I was once in the exact same boat as you are in now. I'm going to assume your coming from a western diet. The reason I say that is because we (I came from a western diet) are led to believe we need heaps of protein. This is only true if you are a dedicated body builder.

Protein doesn't really give you energy. It's primary role is in tissue repair and regeneration. Your body's preferred fuel source is carbohydrates.

If you look at most vegan endurance athletes you'll notice they usually consume 10% or less of their total calories from protein. The ideal diet for endurance athletes is a high carb, low protein, low fat diet.

This is the diet I switched to after struggling with digestive issues and lack of energy on a regular vegan diet. My mistake was transferring what I had been taught about nutrition on a western diet and applying to a vegan diet. Which was to keep protein and fat intake higher than carbohydrates. Forget that!

Ever think about why beans keep you full longer than say fruit? It takes more energy to digest protein than simple carbs. That's energy you can't use for other things, like running.

Make sure you cover your bases. Things like low B12 or iron will make you feel sluggish and tired. I highly recommend you use Cronometer to track your micro and macro nutrients. It was pivotal in guiding me to the success I have now.

Have a look at Brendan Braziers Thrive diet. It's a step in the right direction for athletes and perfect for new vegans. Even better is the 80/10/10 diet. That is how I eat. The more raw the better but cooked is fine. It just depends on what level you want to take it. Also read through my conversations in this thread.

https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/11...ml#post3406945

Let us know how it's going from time to time. Happy running.
Vanilla Gorilla took the words out of my mouth. I consider Thrive a must have for vegan athletes. I'm training for Ironman and notice a huge difference when I follow the Thrive recipes.
seedgirl is offline  
#12 Old 09-18-2014, 12:28 PM
Newbie
 
brian313313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
I'm hypo-thyroid. My thyroid test did not indicate any change in my levels after changing my diet.
brian313313 is offline  
#13 Old 09-18-2014, 05:34 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
I have the same things you do, but I know why and when I will get them now, as well as how to solve/avoid them.

The muscle repair thing is protein for me. If I eat too many greens for too long my muscles will stop repairing themselves and they get a sore feeling like I've been exercising a lot but I haven't really done anything. When I get that I will make something like a lentil/chickpea curry which also has a veg mix including beans.

As to the lack of energy that is simply from not enough calories. If I take in too few for a number of days I will start to lose energy and not be able to run up mountains and such. The difference in my ability levels can be very large and it's 98% related to my intake of calories.



That being said they are somewhat related. If you don't get enough calories then your body will burn your fat and then muscles for fuel. So you could have very good protein intake and still lose muscle if you don't have enough calories.



Anyways that's what it's like for me. If you're similar then that's also your solution.
odizzido is offline  
#14 Old 09-18-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Vanilla Gorilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 89
Seedgirl, Ironman sounds like a cool challenge. Keep your eyes peeled for a new book by ultra marathoner Mike Arnstein. Should be out soon. I beleive it's supposed to be called Fruit is Fast Food.

Maybe you could post some training and nutrition tips or mistakes/pitfalls. You know, stuff we can all learn from.

I haven't read Brendan Braziers books. I don't think his diet was much like the Thrive diet when he was competing.
Vanilla Gorilla is offline  
#15 Old 09-18-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Vanilla Gorilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by odizzido View Post
That being said they are somewhat related. If you don't get enough calories then your body will burn your fat and then muscles for fuel. So you could have very good protein intake and still lose muscle if you don't have enough calories.
Yep!
Vanilla Gorilla is offline  
#16 Old 09-19-2014, 08:14 AM
Beginner
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 195
read the china study, it dispels the myths of protein

you're obviously not eating enough carbohydrates. have bananas for breakfast or lunch along with dates, raisins, figs, mangoes or seasonal fruits. for dinner have rice with veggies, or potatoes with salad, or pasta

-Cassie K
sillybunnns is offline  
#17 Old 09-19-2014, 10:03 AM
Super Moderator
 
danakscully64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 34,591
Lentils are awesome, do you eat those? The "combining foods for amino acids" thing has proven to be a myth, so don't worry about that.



LedBoots and Tiger Lilly like this.
danakscully64 is offline  
#18 Old 09-19-2014, 08:46 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
it has?
LedBoots likes this.
odizzido is offline  
#19 Old 09-20-2014, 12:08 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Tiger Lilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by odizzido View Post
it has?
Yeah, apparently so.

Another great site that I like is the No Meat Athlete. They have some pretty good health tips in there. Though, because I'm lazy and don't always feel like eating, I do like to use a protein powder as well. I use Sun Warrior's chocolate one. It's okay, but since I started adding dates and peanut butter to it, it tastes a lot better.
Tiger Lilly is offline  
#20 Old 09-20-2014, 02:41 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Move of Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian313313 View Post
Hi,

I became vegan at the beginning of this year and did quite well for a while. After about two months, I started getting weaker and having loss of energy. At around 6 months, I did a 3 day food journal and calculated my protein and I was definitely low. I couldn't figure out what else to do so I added eggs back in. Since I've added eggs back, I've felt a lot better and had more energy. I would like to find a good vegan source for protein but have not been able to.

I am a runner and have higher protein needs than average. I forget the numbers right now but I used several sources that I'd consider reliable and made an educated guess as to what would be a good number that made sense. To hit that number, I would have to eat almost all beans. I'm hoping that someone can recommend something. Powders, tofu, tempeh, ... those don't work for me. They just don't fill me up. Beans do but I just can't eat enough and still eat my veggies, fruits, etc. Is there some alternative I'm missing?

Thanks.
Could you post a typical day worth of eating? Also I'm a little confused when you say powders, tofu and tempeh don't work for you because they don't fill you up. Can't you use them to help hit your protein goal and then eat whatever else will fill you up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reila View Post
Unfortunately legumes don't have all the amino acids necessary for our orgnism. Neither do cereals, but if you eat both of them in the same meal (it's important that you eat them together!) you will have all waht you need You can also just eat a slice of bread and i't enough!
Judging by chronometer it would seem that beans contain all the essential amino acids in significant levels.
Move of Ten is offline  
#21 Old 09-20-2014, 03:36 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
"In an effort to make sure vegetarians were getting enough of all the amino acids, in the early 1970s in her book Diet for a Small Planet, Frances Moore Lappe popularized the idea of combining plant proteins at each meal in order to get a "complete" protein. By mixing beans and grains, you can make sure that you are getting both methionine and lysine at each meal.

It is now well known that our livers store the various essential amino acids and so it's not critical to combine different protein sources at each meal. The 2009 American Dietetic Association's Position Paper on Vegetarian Diets says:

"Plant protein can meet requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults, thus complementary proteins do not need to be consumed at the same meal."

For more information on which foods have "complete" proteins, see JackNorrisRd.com blog post, Complete Proteins.

Lysine: The Limiting Amino Acid in Vegan Diets

Before getting into a somewhat technical discussion about the protein needs of vegans, let's just cut to the chase - the RDA for lysine is more important than for protein. If you meet lysine requirements on a vegan diet, you will most likely meet protein requirements."
Lots of good information, continues here: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein#comp
danakscully64 likes this.
LedBoots is offline  
#22 Old 09-20-2014, 10:26 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
Oh I didn't even know that having them at the same time was a thing.

You are saying that we do need those acids, but we can have them whenever right?
LedBoots likes this.
odizzido is offline  
#23 Old 09-21-2014, 02:09 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by odizzido View Post
Oh I didn't even know that having them at the same time was a thing.

You are saying that we do need those acids, but we can have them whenever right?
Yes, exactly. It's funny how complementary proteins taste good together too: rice and beans, wheat toast and peanut butter, etc. But eating healthy vegan food means you're likely to get all the amino acids needed.

LedBoots is offline  
#24 Old 09-21-2014, 09:30 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Move of Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
Yes, exactly. It's funny how complementary proteins taste good together too: rice and beans, wheat toast and peanut butter, etc. But eating healthy vegan food means you're likely to get all the amino acids needed.
Yep. Pretty much every food has some of every essential amino acid. Even fruits and greens (tho some fruits have almost no methionine).

Quote:
A cup of beans will actually tend to have 2-3 times more tryptophan and methionine than a cup of rice. So adding grains to your beans or lentils for the sake of complete protein doesn't make sense as far as I can tell. I don't think they really need complementing, but if they do then probably brazil nuts are the best way to go (for the extra methionine).
Move of Ten is offline  
Reply

Tags
protein

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off