VeggieBoards

VeggieBoards (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/)
-   Vegan Support Forum (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/60-vegan-support-forum/)
-   -   Is there a huge difference between organic and non-organic food? (srs) (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/60-vegan-support-forum/157409-there-huge-difference-between-organic-non-organic-food-srs.html)

infinitefriend9 09-10-2014 08:59 AM

Is there a huge difference between organic and non-organic food? (srs)
 
Should everything I eat be organic?

What's the danger of eating non-organic?

I am confused, so would appreciate answers

Vegan Dave 09-10-2014 04:09 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitefriend9 (Post 3410825)
Should everything I eat be organic?

What's the danger of eating non-organic?

I am confused, so would appreciate answers

Organic food has no pesticides, chemicals, etc. which are toxic to our bodies.....so yeah....organic is better. It costs more, but so do the health ramifications of eating chemicals & pesticides.....later on. I buy organic whenever possible.

Also, there's the DIRTY DOZEN list.....things to definitely buy organic, if possible.

Attachment 4473

And the CLEAN FIFTEEN....items that can be eaten organic or conventional.....

Attachment 4481

Diesel 09-11-2014 02:35 AM

Wow cool list. never heard of dirty dozen and stuff like that.

Nooch 09-11-2014 04:30 AM

Good list! I'm trying to go a bit more organic when I can afford it.

Rocket 09-11-2014 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitefriend9 (Post 3410825)
Should everything I eat be organic?

What's the danger of eating non-organic?

I am confused, so would appreciate answers

Good morning,

So - I've sort of toyed with this over many years and awhile back I read an article by John McDougall about this. I don't know if I could find it now, but the gist of it is this. While non-organic food may contain pesticides and other chemical that none of us particularly need, switching your current diet to all organic products will not save a person's life. Meaning: most major disease out there is not tied to pesticides and chemicals, but to meat and dairy. (As a reminder, the "big four" killers are heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer.) Moreover, the vast majority of pesticides and herbicides used on plants actually are used on crops destined for animal feed, and a farm animal consumes thousands of plants (and all their chemicals) over a lifetime before slaughter - so if you really want to minimize your intake of these chemicals, not eating animal products is the best way to do it - has the greatest impact to reduce them in your diet. (Remember, McDougall is targeting people who eat SAD - since you are here, I'm sure you already know the benefits of vegetarianism!)

I like the idea of eating organic but the simple fact is, I can't afford it even when I do have a job, not even for the "dirty dozen." So I don't try. The only time I will seek out and buy organic is when I am making something for a very special occasion and I really, truly need the best ingredients possible to capture some really subtle flavor (usually it's a dessert). Note that availability and cost may depend on where you are, if you live in places with a long growing season, then you probably have greater variety and availability. Where I live, we can *get* organic most of the year, but the prices are just sky high because it all has to be brought in.

If you really truly can afford it for the things you eat most, then go for it. It certainly is not a bad thing at all. But if you're choosing between eating organic and eating at all, then don't worry about it.

infinitefriend9 09-11-2014 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket (Post 3411449)
Good morning,

So - I've sort of toyed with this over many years and awhile back I read an article by John McDougall about this. I don't know if I could find it now, but the gist of it is this. While non-organic food may contain pesticides and other chemical that none of us particularly need, switching your current diet to all organic products will not save a person's life. Meaning: most major disease out there is not tied to pesticides and chemicals, but to meat and dairy. (As a reminder, the "big four" killers are heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer.) Moreover, the vast majority of pesticides and herbicides used on plants actually are used on crops destined for animal feed, and a farm animal consumes thousands of plants (and all their chemicals) over a lifetime before slaughter - so if you really want to minimize your intake of these chemicals, not eating animal products is the best way to do it - has the greatest impact to reduce them in your diet. (Remember, McDougall is targeting people who eat SAD - since you are here, I'm sure you already know the benefits of vegetarianism!)

I like the idea of eating organic but the simple fact is, I can't afford it even when I do have a job, not even for the "dirty dozen." So I don't try. The only time I will seek out and buy organic is when I am making something for a very special occasion and I really, truly need the best ingredients possible to capture some really subtle flavor (usually it's a dessert). Note that availability and cost may depend on where you are, if you live in places with a long growing season, then you probably have greater variety and availability. Where I live, we can *get* organic most of the year, but the prices are just sky high because it all has to be brought in.

If you really truly can afford it for the things you eat most, then go for it. It certainly is not a bad thing at all. But if you're choosing between eating organic and eating at all, then don't worry about it.

Thank you, what evidence can you give for the point in bold.

Auxin 09-11-2014 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket (Post 3411449)
...I read an article by John McDougall about this. I don't know if I could find it now...

[This] is prolly the one your thinking of.

Enthios 09-11-2014 01:07 PM

The soil quality is another factor. Plants absorb nutrients from soil so the better the soil the more nutrients the plant contains. Organic farming has better fertilizer input and livelier soil. Commercial farming adds only the three main necessary ingredients (N-P-K) Nitrogen - potassium - phosphorus. and the soil becomes depleted otherwise. Healthy soil requires much more and many trace minerals.
This nutrition plus of organic may actually make the price difference a worthwhile deal because of the greater energy supply. It is questionable.
The taste and texture of organic (and energy) is noticeably better. This can really help with eating a healthier diet.
If you grow your own food and really put love into your gardening (fun) the food is sooo goooood.
The price difference can be ridiculous. Depending on where you are. If money is a stressful gain then it may not be worth the hassle.

Auxin 09-11-2014 01:45 PM

The above was true of organic produce... before organic produce was sold in stores.
Now its a profit industry like any other and most mental images of compost rich soil on 40 acre family farms bears no relation to whats bought in stores.
Delicate desert habitats with endangered species are raped to grow a few crops of carrots before the 'organic' soil is depleted and they move on to new ground. (In america its legal to kill endangered plant species if you own the land) Rainforest is burned to get in 3 crops of organic bananas before the land is depleted and used for regular bananas, etc. And chemicals are used in organic farming.
I do like the idea of less pesticides in my diet, but for the most part the organic produce I eat is the organic produce I grow.
Call gardening exercise and you'll have 3 reasons to do it- nearly free organic produce, eating far more vegetables than you would be likely to buy, and daily exercise.

The above clean and dirty lists are a good thing to keep in mind, tho.

Enthios 09-11-2014 02:59 PM

Organic produce has always been sold in stores (what?) And even three years of organic produce in fresh soil is still good organic produce. It would be harder to grow poor produce using certified standards but it could be done. But it is not often the case. Organic growth relies on continuous soil nurturing from year to year. I will admit that I don't have experience on one of the real big farms but most of the organic produce that I've experienced is noticeably better. There are a lot of small farms around that supply health food stores and farmers markets and many have real good soil nurturing practices.
Pesticide use on larger farms and organic certification standards is not something that I know much about whether they have created ways of cheating or not I don't know. ??? All the small farms that I have worked on had real wholesome pride involved in what they were doing.
It is good to be wary for sure but also there are people who care and are good to get involved with.

Rocket 09-11-2014 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitefriend9 (Post 3411577)
Thank you, what evidence can you give for the point in bold.

Hi Infinite,

Actually, the link that Auxin provided addresses this point (thanks Auxin, that actually is a much better article than the one I was thinking of). I have read it in other places as well though I can't recall where, now.

If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. A quick look around Google indicates that a clear majority of agricultural land in the US is used to grow feed for animals (The estimates vary, but one source I found said that 80% of agricultural land in the US is given over to a combination of feed and keeping livestock: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animal...e-environment/). It's a good assumption that most of that feed is not organic. The animal is fed, what, twice a day I think is typical (unless it's grazed), and pesticides, herbicides and antibiotics accumulate in the animal's body over time - not flushed out. Let's assume that one cow yields 100 servings of meat. When the animal is slaughtered, it yields a lifetime of chemicals spread over 100 servings. If the animal ate 1000 meals over its lifetime, then each portion of meat yields 10 meals' worth of chemicals - follow my math? Now, let's just say for a minute that instead of eating the meat, you instead eat one typical meal that the animal ate: say, a serving of oats, soybeans and greens (not totally sure what they are fed, but that's probably close). You would get a good, if not appetizing, meal of protein, complex carbs and micro-nutrients. And *one* dose of chemicals. Instead of the 10 or so meals' worth of chemicals in the steak. See where I'm going with that? I just picked convenient round numbers here, but the point is, eating plants pretty much has to drastically reduce your intake of chemicals... Unless you are going to commit yourself to only eating organic, chemical free meat your entire life. This is prohibitively expensive for most people and also not terribly practical for most (but I do know one person who does this).

Again, I like the idea of eating organic myself, and if I had the disposable income to do it I'd eat a whole lot more. But once I made the connection that cutting out animal products already drastically reduces my intake of chemicals, I just couldn't bring myself to worry about it that much anymore.

jml02080419 09-13-2014 12:03 PM

There is organic and then there's organic. Just because it fits a list to work in the vegan eating life style in no way does it mean it's good for you or organic. If you have to buy processed/packaged foods look for the organic non GMO box in the lower corner its the better bet. Of course the best way is to avoid anything processed and buy bulk and produce then you are sure to eat healthier. Not all organic products are created equal and the standards the FDA has in my opinion isn't good enough and can be at times misleading. I am here to help or you can get help from my blogs I love helping people be organic eaters for life in fact its my work but if they don't care about organics it's equally important to help everyone we can make better eating choices. I think so many people are lost when it comes to it and then naturally in todays world they jump online to get informed and that can be really hard to understand as well. This forum is probably the best place you can find honest information from you can also contact me via my web page and I will help you or can email you documents if you need. I wish you luck, everyone reading luck in learning and implementing a better eating life style as it is the way to good health, life and the planet <3
Jenny
thelazyassvegan.com

Enthios 09-15-2014 10:43 AM

So the point could be that it depends on where the organic produce is purchased. Large grocery stores are now carrying large farm commercially grown organic produce which is kind-of cheap organics.
Some organic farms are very caring.
Might have to look into where the stores are buying their produce because each farm has different standards.
There is a definite difference in produce quality in how it is cared for.
And it does effect health.
.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.