Gary Yourofsky's rape comment [Trigger warning!] - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-02-2014, 12:20 PM
 
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Gary Yourofsky's rape comment [Trigger warning!]

He made some violent quotes and I agreed with this article:

http://veganstakelondon.com/post/135...imal-consumers

He makes all vegans look bad to animal consumers. Many animal consumers will see this nutjob and not want to go vegan. I thought veganism was supposed to be about the support of nonviolence? To me that extends to both humans and animals and the environment. Gary Yourofsky IMO is showing us all up with his violent speech.
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#2 Old 07-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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I actually watched some of that video that is on that website. He is full of crap. A lot of what he says is half truth, fear tactics, or whatever other stupid thing that comes into his brain. I wouldn't trust anything he says.
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#3 Old 07-02-2014, 01:15 PM
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The advocacy of violence is wrong, but so too is name-calling. If you think he is wrong, why not just say he is wrong, instead of hurling an epithet, like "ass," at him? Isn't this the same thing he's doing? I understand it's a question of degree, but in principle it's the same: engendering animosity toward others. You're both wrong.
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#4 Old 07-02-2014, 01:21 PM
 
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The advocacy of violence is wrong, but so too is name-calling. If you think he is wrong, why not just say he is wrong, instead of hurling an epithet, like "ass," at him? Isn't this the same thing he's doing? I understand it's a question of degree, but in principle it's the same: engendering animosity toward others. You're both wrong.
You have a point, I will change the title of this thread.

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I can't because it will not let me.
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#5 Old 07-02-2014, 02:17 PM
 
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I don't advocate violence towards any animals, humans included. I think calling him as ass is fine... he is an ass. There is a big difference between calling someone an ass and advocating for the rape and murder of the vast majority of people in the world.
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#6 Old 07-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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Ass is a description of a person(or a nice part of a person) so I don't think it's the same.
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#7 Old 07-02-2014, 04:38 PM
 
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Wow, that's horribly disheartening. As one of the biggest voice for veganism and animal advocacy his actions and the way they are viewed have ramifications in terms of the way people view a vegan and an animal advocacy life style and this behavior just convinces anyone who already had the stereotype of vegans being militant nut jobs in their heads that they are correct in assuming so. I agree that buying fur is horrible and no one should do it, but then, why do they do it? Status. Just like men think their manhood rests on how big their steak is at dinner (no pun intended) or families thinking it's all american to grill up hot dogs and burgers and the upper class think to going to fancy steakhouses to eat veal and foie gras is the epitome of class and sophistication. It's ingrained in our mind as the thing to do, now how do we stop it? With violence and extreme tactics? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? No,we do it with education, just like every one who eats meat should be forced to watch innocent animals become meat, people who buy fur should have to sit and watch as the animal is skinned alive for their fashion statement and if they can't bear to watch animals become meat and animal skin become fur (as I suspect would happen with most people) they should not be allowed to buy eat or wear it anymore plain and simple. Violence only begets violence, but education begets knowledge, and in converting some one to a kinder lifestyle that is our most powerful weapon.

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#8 Old 07-02-2014, 06:12 PM
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You guys have clearly misunderstood him. So simple to put two and two together by his quote. He is trying to make a point that cows are raped when they are inseminated yet after all this abuse; there is people who have to go out with the skin of the raped animal and be arrogant about wearing it.

His way of bringing awareness to those who lack awareness isn't the best way yet it touches the right buttons to raise your blood pressure SO YOU START CARING. Omnivores don't care.

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#9 Old 07-02-2014, 07:08 PM
 
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You guys have clearly misunderstood him. So simple to put two and two together by his quote. He is trying to make a point that cows are raped when they are inseminated yet after all this abuse; there is people who have to go out with the skin of the raped animal and be arrogant about wearing it.

His way of bringing awareness to those who lack awareness isn't the best way yet it touches the right buttons to raise your blood pressure SO YOU START CARING. Omnivores don't care.

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By that logic every person on the planet who eats dairy should be violently raped, if I had heard this before I went vegan this wouldn't have made me convert. If anything it would've made me disgusted, my sister was raped and it's not something I, or most people in the world, take lightly. But you're right a lot of omnivores don't care, some don't by choice or some just haven't made the connection yet, omnivores aren't the enemy, unless you were vegan since birth you were an omni at some point. Talking about taking violent action against them is not going to bring them over to our side it's just going to create a further divide between us. His statement raises blood pressure, but not for the animals, I raises it for the people who before might have considered listening to his message but are now turned off by it, that's not making anyone start to care, it's just making them turn further away.

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To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity
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#10 Old 07-02-2014, 07:28 PM
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He talks about saying that in this video at around 12:20.
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#11 Old 07-02-2014, 08:47 PM
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By that logic every person on the planet who eats dairy should be violently raped, if I had heard this before I went vegan this wouldn't have made me convert. If anything it would've made me disgusted, my sister was raped and it's not something I, or most people in the world, take lightly. But you're right a lot of omnivores don't care, some don't by choice or some just haven't made the connection yet, omnivores aren't the enemy, unless you were vegan since birth you were an omni at some point. Talking about taking violent action against them is not going to bring them over to our side it's just going to create a further divide between us. His statement raises blood pressure, but not for the animals, I raises it for the people who before might have considered listening to his message but are now turned off by it, that's not making anyone start to care, it's just making them turn further away.
You have to listen to the whole message. Not pick and choose what you don't like just because it suits you. Those who are turned off by it are the ones with the real problem, they don't want to face their own life so they reject everything else.

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#12 Old 07-02-2014, 09:08 PM
 
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You have to listen to the whole message. Not pick and choose what you don't like just because it suits you. Those who are turned off by it are the ones with the real problem, they don't want to face their own life so they reject everything else.

Are you a speciesist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XkFx7kFGxYo

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Wow, you have got so caught up in being kind to animals you forget about being kind to others as well. What you said to me was completely out of line!!! How dare you insinuate that I am any of those things! I was responding to the link posted in the start of this thread there was no pick and chose. I'm so sorry if you think that me not treating other people poorly means I'm not as committed to the cause as you are, and no I am not a speciesist and if you knew anything about me you would never call me that, but you don't! It's no surprise you would defend his attacking others when you seem so adept to do it yourself!!! The whole reason i became I vegan is because of my love for ALL animals and humans are included in that!! I'm sorry if I don't agree with your extreme tactics but you have no right to call my beliefs into question because I don't approve of the way he chooses to spread his message!! You give vegans a bad name with your elitist and condescending attitude and intolerance for anyone who doesn't share in your views!! No I will never be okay with rape used in context and applied to any species, that doesn't make me a speciesist and I resent being called one. I have seen rape up close and personal and for you to come back and attack me with your petty insinuations just speaks volumes about your character, you are truly despicable !!!!!!!!

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#13 Old 07-02-2014, 09:33 PM
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You guys have clearly misunderstood him. So simple to put two and two together by his quote. He is trying to make a point that cows are raped when they are inseminated yet after all this abuse; there is people who have to go out with the skin of the raped animal and be arrogant about wearing it.

His way of bringing awareness to those who lack awareness isn't the best way yet it touches the right buttons to raise your blood pressure SO YOU START CARING. Omnivores don't care.

So, when animals are raped it's bad. Unless those animals are doing something he disagrees with, then it's totally okay to rape them because that'll learn them good!

Seems completely totes reasonable. /SARCASM.

He's advocating the rape of human animals. How can you be okay with that? And how can you think for a second that it's going to do anyone any good?

This isn't 'bringing awareness'. If it did, if it worked, then I'm guessing there'd be a whole different message on the Vegan Outreach pamphlets. But it doesn't work. He's breeding hatred and inciting violence when he spews this garbage. Garbage that only serves to widen the gap between us and carnists.

More than that, he is using the same tactics industry has used to get people to EAT animals. He 'Others' people, he attempts to depersonalise carnists (we're all omnivores, we can eat and digest animals and plants, that's what an omnivore is). That is what every dominant ideology has done. It happened with people of colour, it's happened with women, it happens with people of different gender/sexual orientations, it happens with animals. Those ideologies that 'Other' that which is different, the tactics that they use, serve no one. They only seek to highlight out differences.

If you want to support someone like that, then go ahead. But I don't see the point in fighting a war against 'evil', telling everyone that your way is better, while using the same weapons as your enemy. It's hypocritical and in the end is a fruitless exercise.
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#14 Old 07-02-2014, 09:46 PM
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Does Gary sometimes go too far with what he says? Yes, (and I don't think he should be wishing rape on anyone). But so does everyone else, including myself. The majority of us have a tendency to wish evil on evil people (now it's just a matter of what evil is for you).
Every time I hear news about someone being killed or raped, I hear plenty of people talking about how the murderer should be killed as well, and the rapist raped or tortured, and killed. People even wish death upon people who kill dogs and cats. Doesn't really make the people who wish those things any better human beings than him (Gary).
I think the difference is, when evil is wished upon someone who hurts/kills nonhuman animals used for food and clothes, the person wishing it is seen as a bad person. While when someone wishes evil upon people who hurt/kill other people, no one sees the person wishing it as a bad person.

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#15 Old 07-02-2014, 11:24 PM
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Does Gary sometimes go too far with what he says? Yes, (and I don't think he should be wishing rape on anyone). But so does everyone else, including myself. The majority of us have a tendency to wish evil on evil people (now it's just a matter of what evil is for you).
Every time I hear news about someone being killed or raped, I hear plenty of people talking about how the murderer should be killed as well, and the rapist raped or tortured, and killed. People even wish death upon people who kill dogs and cats. Doesn't really make the people who wish those things any better human beings than him (Gary).
I think the difference is, when evil is wished upon someone who hurts/kills nonhuman animals used for food and clothes, the person wishing it is seen as a bad person. While when someone wishes evil upon people who hurt/kill other people, no one sees the person wishing it as a bad person.
Just because the 'majority' do or think something, doesn't make it any less wrong. The majority of people I know think eating meat is okay....And yet, here we are.

The issue isn't actually that he's advocating the rape of humans for wearing fur/consuming dairy/contributing to violence against animals. The issue is that he's advocating the rape of humans. How is that ever okay?
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#16 Old 07-02-2014, 11:47 PM
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Just because the 'majority' do or think something, doesn't make it any less wrong. The majority of people I know think eating meat is okay....And yet, here we are.

The issue isn't actually that he's advocating the rape of humans for wearing fur/consuming dairy/contributing to violence against animals. The issue is that he's advocating the rape of humans. How is that ever okay?
I CLEARLY said that I don't think he should be wishing rape on anyone. I NEVER said it was OK.
My point was, Gary does it and he's a jerk. But I've seen plenty of people wish evil things on people who kill domestic pets, and if anything people agree with them. And yes, it is wrong. The point wasn't whether it's wrong or right. It's about how there seems to be a double standard on whom people wish evil upon. Wish evil upon someone who kills a domestic pet, people agree with you. Wish evil upon someone who kills/tortures animals* used for food and clothing, you're a terrible person.

*Someone who consumes animal products isn't directly killing the animals, but they are indirectly. And to Gary, it's the same.

I also wouldn't say that he's exactly advocating. He's not really telling others to rape people who contribute to animal suffering. It's a (messed up) wish he has.
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#17 Old 07-03-2014, 12:32 AM
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I CLEARLY said that I don't think he should be wishing rape on anyone. I NEVER said it was OK.
My point was, Gary does it and he's a jerk. But I've seen plenty of people wish evil things on people who kill domestic pets, and if anything people agree with them. And yes, it is wrong. The point wasn't whether it's wrong or right. It's about how there seems to be a double standard on whom people wish evil upon. Wish evil upon someone who kills a domestic pet, people agree with you. Wish evil upon someone who kills/tortures animals* used for food and clothing, you're a terrible person.

*Someone who consumes animal products isn't directly killing the animals, but they are indirectly. And to Gary, it's the same.

I also wouldn't say that he's exactly advocating. He's not really telling others to rape people who contribute to animal suffering. It's a (messed up) wish he has.
Okay, I see what you're saying now. It really did sound, to me, as though you were saying "Sure, what he says is wrong, but everyone does that kind of thing". I'm glad you're not of that opinion!

He's expressing his wish for people who contribute to violence against animals, to be raped. He expresses that 'wish' in a public forum. That is very much advocating and promoting violence against people. The way it would be considered advocating of violence if I wrote a blog and said "I think people who dye their hair are unnatural, I wish they would all be stoned to death". (I have dyed hair and would NEVER suggest this!)
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#18 Old 07-03-2014, 05:49 AM
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Wow, you have got so caught up in being kind to animals you forget about being kind to others as well. What you said to me was completely out of line!!! How dare you insinuate that I am any of those things! I was responding to the link posted in the start of this thread there was no pick and chose. I'm so sorry if you think that me not treating other people poorly means I'm not as committed to the cause as you are, and no I am not a speciesist and if you knew anything about me you would never call me that, but you don't! It's no surprise you would defend his attacking others when you seem so adept to do it yourself!!! The whole reason i became I vegan is because of my love for ALL animals and humans are included in that!! I'm sorry if I don't agree with your extreme tactics but you have no right to call my beliefs into question because I don't approve of the way he chooses to spread his message!! You give vegans a bad name with your elitist and condescending attitude and intolerance for anyone who doesn't share in your views!! No I will never be okay with rape used in context and applied to any species, that doesn't make me a speciesist and I resent being called one. I have seen rape up close and personal and for you to come back and attack me with your petty insinuations just speaks volumes about your character, you are truly despicable !!!!!!!!
I meant "you" in a general sense towards those who didn't understand him. Not towards you. My apologies; I should have been more clear.

I was truthfully asking if you're a speciesist. Not a rhetorical question.

He should of gone a different route to elucidate the self-fish meat eating addicted behavior. He has taken the war route with his message because he is fed up with specific meat eaters having no respect. He believes that the kind of people that KNOW about the abuse yet keep eating the flesh of abused animals need to be abused to understand what abuse is.

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#19 Old 07-03-2014, 08:09 AM
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I AM NOT ADVOCATING RETAILIATION. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN VIGILANTISM.

However, it's interesting that people on a animal rights thread would be so quick to divert their attention from the BILLIONS of people who approve the rape, torture, enslavement, abuse, killing of BILLIONS of other species to one of very few that speaks out against it.
I don't believe Gary has ever tortured anyone himself, or paid for anyones torture.

You'll find very similar words of wishing pain on people that have raped, tortured, or killed. It's legal in many states to execute them.

His message is extreme, and not one that I ever support, but it does ring true.

I would not compare the animal trades to things like the holocaust, but it is far more awful if you're being objective.

People simply aren't objective, and they;re not seeing reality when they support the animal trade. That would include eating animals, using products that test on them, their use in entertainment ect.

I don't agree with his statements, but I wouldn't condemn them either.
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#20 Old 07-03-2014, 09:22 AM
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You'll find very similar words of wishing pain on people that have raped, tortured, or killed. It's legal in many states to execute them.
I'm not so sure......I've made the mistake of listening to him a few times and it felt a bit like torture.

As for diverting attention, the issue is that Gary may be doing more harm than good. He is extreme, misstates the truth, exaggerates, and does just about anything to get attention and convince people to "go vegan". To me, that his a huge diversion from the actual issues.
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#21 Old 07-03-2014, 10:17 AM
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Maybe I should have stayed out of this topic. I've listened to some Gary, but not a follower.

It does seem to me that there is a place for advocates that do get out the extreme messages. I personally have a great dislike for the comparison of animals to having human traits. Like "animals should be loved as treated as friends". I'm more like - "animals should be left the F alone because our lives don't need to involve their use". I can avoid animal products without even liking them, just like I can avoid being mean to people.

I really hate things like protests over exterminating or demolishing condemned city building because it would kill the rats and roaches than hearing gary compare billions of unnecessary animal tortures to having an eye for an eye justice.
That at least makes one think
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#22 Old 07-03-2014, 10:50 AM
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I renamed the thread, since there seemed to be general agreement, including the OP, that a new name was warranted. I also added a trigger warning, given the topic being discussed.

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#23 Old 07-03-2014, 03:34 PM
 
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The rape thing isn't even the worst of what he said. On his website he also condones torture and murder.
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#24 Old 07-03-2014, 04:32 PM
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I don't know much about Yourofsky. I know of him only through one of his lectures, published as a video on Youtube. Does he earn his living through the advocacy of veganism; that is, does he charge fees for his lecturing service or otherwise solicit money for his advocacy?

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#25 Old 07-03-2014, 04:33 PM
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One thing Gary Yourofsky excels at is getting people to think about and discuss issues, including his dissenters. Productive discourse is a good thing. Years ago, I watched the "Best Speech You Will Ever Hear" when he's talking to a group of college kids. Aside from a few quibbles, I find that it compromises his most balanced arguments (and much of it has basis in truth rather than just his opinion). With that said, I don't agree many of the viewpoints he's been voicing most recently regarding rape, torture, breaking laws, etc. The problem with Yourofsky's brand of zealous advocacy is that he never seems to really set limits or boundaries. It's because of individuals like Yourofsky that the mainstream considers veganism radically extreme.

"Now listen, I know you've got to think about your image, 'cause image is important to you, because of course your friends are gonna dictate your actions through the rest of your lives, and I wouldn't want you to step away from them and become an individual, that would almost be too much!"...

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#26 Old 07-03-2014, 04:37 PM
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I don't know much about Yourofsky. I know of him only through one of his lectures, published as a video on Youtube. Does he earn his living through the advocacy of veganism; that is, does he charge fees for his lecturing service or otherwise solicit money for his advocacy?
He was formerly employed by PETA and in that capacity was compensated for touring and lecturing on veganism, animal rights advocacy, and vegan activism. That relationship ended quite some time ago, though. Yourofsky often gives free lectures, but since he often lectures at universities, I'd imagine he must get paid for many of them in order to support himself.

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#27 Old 07-04-2014, 12:15 PM
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One thing Gary Yourofsky excels at is getting people to think about and discuss issues, including his dissenters. Productive discourse is a good thing. Years ago, I watched the "Best Speech You Will Ever Hear" when he's talking to a group of college kids. Aside from a few quibbles, I find that it compromises his most balanced arguments (and much of it has basis in truth rather than just his opinion). With that said, I don't agree many of the viewpoints he's been voicing most recently regarding rape, torture, breaking laws, etc. The problem with Yourofsky's brand of zealous advocacy is that he never seems to really set limits or boundaries. It's because of individuals like Yourofsky that the mainstream considers veganism radically extreme.
This is basically how I feel about him too.

I'm ambivalent about him in the same way as I am with PETA. On the one hand there is no doubt he has done a lot of good and that one speech is great, but on the other hand he also does things that make me want to distance myself from him.
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#28 Old 07-04-2014, 12:54 PM
 
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http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magaz...itant-1.463267
A great article written on Gary Yourofsky.

Yes, his views in the past have been extreme. But I don't think anybody can disagree with his passion, his drive, his will to fight for the rights of those that cannot speak for themselves. I have watched many of his interviews and presentations. He is abrasive at times (more so in the past), he rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but I really think that this man is a good fit for our current world. He is a good-looking, passionate and charismatic person that follows what he believes in and doesn't sugar coat it.
No, his style is not for everybody. There will be people out there that are shocked, and offended by his comments/views/presentations. And the cards are stacked against him. The media has gone to great lengths to associate his name with his comments on fur. They push for the connection to be made apparent, to be synonymous with his name.
But everyone here, should realize that what he preaches is the right message to be sent out. As they say, different strokes for different folks.
You either love him, or you hate him.
I, for one, love him
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#29 Old 07-04-2014, 01:20 PM
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I'd imagine he must get paid for many of them in order to support himself
He doesn't charge for his lectures, or at least not for the ones to university classes and such (which seem to be the majority of his speaking engagements). He solicits donations online to cover the costs of his speaking tours.

[More to say after Brazil vs Columbia! Because football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more serious than that!]
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Dave in MPLS / DISCLAIMER: I am not an actual rooster.
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Last edited by leedsveg; 07-04-2014 at 03:07 PM.
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#30 Old 07-04-2014, 08:29 PM
Don't Eat Animals.
 
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,291
Gary is a passionate advocate of veganism.

Sometimes, people interpret words, phrases, etc. in the wrong way.

Anything that brings attention to the horrible abuse and treatment of millions of animals is noteworthy. It's a tough road.

Sometimes telling the truth can seem extreme.

All I'm saying is that the cause of veganism should be told to anyone who will listen.
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All animals should be respected & should have the ability to lead a natural & enjoyable life. This means not eating them, or abusing them in any way.
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