Being Kind Not Just To Animals - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-30-2014, 06:10 AM
 
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Being Kind Not Just To Animals

I recently saw a video by a vegan on youtube, (who shall remain nameless) I really liked her videos and I'm always looking for new info for people who start taking to me about veganism so I'm better informed, not only from experts but from fellow vegans, I like to know how they approach their critics. So I was looking through her videos and I found one about God, being a christian myself I watched it and . . .it was really upsetting. She basically compared my beliefs to a child believing in santa claus. It was very hurtful.

Apparently, to her, christians and veganism are mutually exclusive and in a video about sharing with other vegans on how to talk to stupid christians she thinks the best course of action is to undermine their belief system and I was thinking, if I was a non-vegan christian watching this I would not listen to a word this girl was saying. A lot of people assume vegans are judgmental, arrogant and condescending. I'm not and I'm sure you're not, but if this was the first video I watched (maybe I'm curious, some one gave me a pamphlet or something) I would believe all of those assumptions. I think a lot of us focus on living a kind life for the animals we forget about the other people and their beliefs.

I'm not saying by any means to shy away from talking to people, but if you immediately attack their beliefs they're not going to listen to your message. Remember, omnivores aren't the enemy, most of were raised omni, with all the lies and excuses that come with it.The meat and dairy industries promote these lies and it's our job to get the truth out when we can, but if we're going to do that, we need to remember to do it respectfully and tailor our approach to the person we're talking to so we have the best chance for success. I think we can all agree the you're an idiot argument has never succeeded in converting someone to veganism and I think we all want to live the kind and peaceful life we represent.
You catch more flies with agave nectar. . .

Also for anyone looking for biblical resources, if you are a christian or you talk to a lot of christians about veganism, there's a great organization for vegan Christians called christianveg.com, here's their FAQ with biblical references
http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/honoring.htm
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What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity

Last edited by veganvirgo; 06-30-2014 at 06:27 AM.
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#2 Old 06-30-2014, 06:35 AM
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I think a lot of the hate for christianity comes from people lashing out against those that are anti gay or some other such hateful thing, the vast vocal majority being christian. Also in the UK christianity has been the catalyst for wars, hate, and suffering. When you as a christian get hate from people, keep in mind people get hate from christians all the time so don't judge them too harshly for attacking something that has attacked them.

Anyways before this turns into some pointless religious debate on things that cannot be proved or disproved I want to say yes, please vegans stop attacking people for what they do. They were raised by meat eaters in a meat eating society so it's not surprising they do the same thing. Slavery went on for ages before enough people figured out that it wasn't so nice and I believe the exact same thing will happen with animals, it is only a matter of time. Just look at how many vegans there are now compared to twenty years ago.

Also one other thing I really want to say is stop trying to out vegan eachother. I see vegans being attacked by other vegans all the time, and the only times people have given me a hard time is on a former message board I joined for a week where the vegans there just flamed eachother trying to be more vegan than the next member. This one doesn't seem so bad so far though one person already was starting to give someone else a hard time in the pizza thread. It's pretty sad and also the reason why I don't tell anyone I am vegan unless it comes up so they can make up their minds about me before they label me as someone who is just going to yell at them.
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#3 Old 06-30-2014, 06:51 AM
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I share your frustration on this. I've met a lot of Vegans who seem to think it's always "open season" on anyone who does not act and think exactly as they do, whether it's religion, politics, etc.

To be fair, though, I think this has to do with a person's own moral/psychological "compass" than anything else - people who point fingers tend to do that regardless of their eating habits, religion, orientation, etc. So, that lady would probably diss Christians even if she ate meat - or if she didn't diss Christians, she'd diss fat people, or another race, or people who smoke. I tend to get the dissing from all directions myself because I am a gay Christian strict vegetarian (but not Vegan) who is also child-free! Got all that? It does make life interesting at least.

I am extremely curious to know who posted this blog, though. Maybe you would be good enough to PM me the name??
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#4 Old 06-30-2014, 06:59 AM
 
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I think a lot of the hate for christianity comes from people lashing out against those that are anti gay or some other such hateful thing, the vast vocal majority being christian. Also in the UK christianity has been the catalyst for wars, hate, and suffering. When you as a christian get hate from people, keep in mind people get hate from christians all the time so don't judge them too harshly for attacking something that has attacked them.
That wasn't my point, my point was no matter what a person believes, if you want them to come over to a kinder way of life you cannot achieve that by dismissing their beliefs and treating them like morons, it will turn people off to your message. I agree let's not get into that, though as a modern christian I don't appreciate being blamed by people in the UK for past oppressions anymore than germans today would if some one came up to them and said, you're a german so I blame you because my family suffered in the holocaust even though they weren't even born yet and had nothing to do with it. I'm certainly sorry those people were oppressed but it's not my fault, many religions have been twisted around to serve as some one's means to an end, islam comes to mind, but should everyone who is islamic get maligned because of this? Do they deserve to be?? I'm quite liberal in my beliefs and don't hate gays at all, would it be fair for a gay person to come up to me and be rude to me, assuming that I hate him when I don't? No, of course not any more that it would for a non-christian to come up to me and assume I'm a judgmental, hateful person. In this day and age we need to stop stereotyping and making blanket statements about people, its that practice that allows prejudice to exist in the first place
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What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity

Last edited by veganvirgo; 06-30-2014 at 07:04 AM.
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#5 Old 06-30-2014, 06:59 AM
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People should be respected for who they are.

Slanted opinions, prejudices, or bias attitudes serve no meaningful purpose.

If society could get beyond these narrow minded attitudes, this would be a much better place.

Live your life & let others live theirs.
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All animals should be respected & should have the ability to lead a natural & enjoyable life. This means not eating them, or abusing them in any way.
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#6 Old 06-30-2014, 04:16 PM
 
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Overall, I think Christianity is a harmful religion, and I also find a lot of the core beliefs of the religion to be fairly ridiculous. That doesn't mean I have a problem with individual Christians though. I have a problem with Wal-Mart, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with people who work at Wal-Mart. I have a problem with the US military, but doesn't mean I have a problem with everyone in the military. And I have a problem with animal exploitation, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with everybody who eats meat! I feel everyone has their own path in life, and I'm not really interested in judging the ethics or values of other people, unless of course they are truly AWFUL individuals (it's hard for me not to feel judgmental about people who eat ton of veal, for example). But most people mean well enough. Still, I have a lot of opininos about the world and ways that it could work that would be better for everyone. And I still feel I have a right to criticize Christianity. Most Christians feel comfortable talking about their religion publicly. If they are going to talk about the plus side publicly. . .it seems only fair that I should be able to discuss the downside publicly.

That said, I could do without a lot of the hyperbole and generalizations that some anti-Christian people will put out there. Saying that all Christians are jerks, or that everyone believes in God is an idiot, well, that just isn't accurate. Christians are human beings the same as anyone else. . .there are all sorts of denominations they fall into and all sorts of people within those denominations. Some Christians are very mean and some are very kind; some are very wise and some are very naive. The same thing applies to non-Christians, of course.

And definitely, being super judgmental and aggressive toward somebody usually isn't the way to win them to your side, not from their own free will anyway. If people are going to embrace veganism in the present, it's going to be out of their own free will. If you insult them, they won't become vegan. They will just tune you out.
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#7 Old 06-30-2014, 04:40 PM
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Everyone has a right to their beliefs and no one has the right to infringe on others way of life if it doesn't concern them, or harm others.

There does seem to be a real opposition between the Christian Right who profess to be under attack, and the Humanists who want freedoms.
There is NO reason to link veg'ns or animal rights with any other group. There are people of all beliefs and cultures who have respect and advocacy to all animals.

There is another thread by BiteSizeVegan that addresses this issue. She did a very nice video for it on her site.
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#8 Old 07-01-2014, 04:48 AM
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Oh my...it is as if I was reading some of my own thoughts! I have only been vegan for 16 months....was vegetarian before. Anyways, I am with a man who eats meat and he runs a restaurant that serves it. Sometimes I just cry because it does hurt. But I can only notice how he has cut way down on his own consumption. The thing is, if we are kind to animals yet cruel to our fellow humans what does that say? We must trust the process. We must take this global fusion as an advantage and encourage people by example. I agree on this. And it is mine and others beliefs that the tree of life WAS eating meat(LIFE!!). We had a merciful creator/God that made concessions. Thank God or we wouldnt have had a chance to come to this understanding. We can be that.. offer an alternative to animal products but dont judge those who are not yet there. I try to givr my dogs Soy chicken. Sometimes theyd rather starve! I offer the alternative because I love them. I have an idea for an integrated restaurant I am going to post. I am tired of fighting and being segregated. BTW....Rosa Parks and Susan B Anthony...both Vegans!!
I cried reading your words. Thnak you for pointing that out. You cannot fight hate and intolerance with more hate and intolerance. I am not religous yet Yashua's words often echo in my head when I begin to feel angry, defensive, or persecuted. We are not martyrs because we know in our hearts we do our 100% that we can at any given moment and that is all we can do. I finally am throwing out all my old leather products. Was gonna give it away but do not want to perpetuate supply and demand. We have enough alternatives now. I even have trouble telling the difference sometimes! Thanks for your post...this is my first. God knows some positive encouraging support is needed in this Peth To Peace! (P E T H....The true loving God....he was a Protester for the Ethical Treatment of Humans....So maybe humans come by it honestly!
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#9 Old 07-02-2014, 09:52 PM
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There does seem to be a real opposition between the Christian Right who profess to be under attack, and the Humanists who want freedoms.
There is NO reason to link veg'ns or animal rights with any other group. There are people of all beliefs and cultures who have respect and advocacy to all animals.
I don't know that I agree with that.

Are you saying that intersectionality isn't important in Rights movements in general? Because, that doesn't make sense. I've also found explaining my A.R advocacy in terms of other Rights movements I'm part of, it helps people get where I'm coming from.

Veganvirgo, I'd suggest Colleen Patrick-Goudreu if you're interested. She has some lovely podcasts. I'm not Christian, but she is and she might be right what you're looking for. She's a bit crunchy for me, but it takes all types! :P
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#10 Old 07-02-2014, 10:07 PM
 
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I don't know that I agree with that.

Are you saying that intersectionality isn't important in Rights movements in general? Because, that doesn't make sense. I've also found explaining my A.R advocacy in terms of other Rights movements I'm part of, it helps people get where I'm coming from.

Veganvirgo, I'd suggest Colleen Patrick-Goudreu if you're interested. She has some lovely podcasts. I'm not Christian, but she is and she might be right what you're looking for. She's a bit crunchy for me, but it takes all types! :P
Thanks so much TigerLilly, I've seen some of her stuff and I really like her speeches, I really needed some positivity and kindness from this board today (apparently I'm a speciesist because I don't agree with Gary Yourofsky, I think they might pull my vegan card and I'll never be seen on these boards again)

What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity
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#11 Old 07-02-2014, 11:26 PM
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Thanks so much TigerLilly, I've seen some of her stuff and I really like her speeches, I really needed some positivity and kindness from this board today (apparently I'm a speciesist because I don't agree with Gary Yourofsky, I think they might pull my vegan card and I'll never be seen on these boards again)
LOL!

You'd BETTER stay on these boards! Us Virgos have to stick together! :P
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#12 Old 07-02-2014, 11:41 PM
 
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LOL!

You'd BETTER stay on these boards! Us Virgos have to stick together! :P
You're a virgo? That explains why you're so awesome
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What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity
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#13 Old 07-03-2014, 03:30 AM
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I'm liking that Joe!

There is joy and beauty in everything around us, just take time to see it!

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#14 Old 07-03-2014, 07:54 AM
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Joe, I am tempted to add two to your list - though the second may be an "advanced technique:" be kind to people behind their backs, and be kind even to people you don't like (but without harming yourself or letting them harm you). These, if they could be widely practiced, would change the world, I think.

Your insight on the value of kindness is awesome, by the way.
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#15 Old 07-03-2014, 03:58 PM
 
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I have a problem with Christianity because as a religion it's just very violent. Don't get me wrong, not all Christians are bad people, most are just ordinary people and that is how they have been raised. Many Christians are also afraid of God, which is another reason I don't like it. What kind of monster tortures people day and night forever and ever? That is what makes me hate Christianity, on top of all the violent, cruel and horrific verses in the Bible. I just can't get my head around it. Christians themselves are generally not violent people, but the Christian God himself is a very violent and rather tyranical character and that is what I find so difficult to accept.

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#16 Old 07-03-2014, 04:13 PM
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Everyone has a right to their beliefs and no one has the right to infringe on others way of life if it doesn't concern them, or harm others.

There does seem to be a real opposition between the Christian Right who profess to be under attack, and the Humanists who want freedoms.
There is NO reason to link veg'ns or animal rights with any other group. There are people of all beliefs and cultures who have respect and advocacy to all animals.

There is another thread by BiteSizeVegan that addresses this issue. She did a very nice video for it on her site.
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I don't know that I agree with that.

Are you saying that intersectionality isn't important in Rights movements in general? Because, that doesn't make sense. I've also found explaining my A.R advocacy in terms of other Rights movements I'm part of, it helps people get where I'm coming from.

:P
I was stating a common trend at least in my area of the U.S. It's becoming so common for people to be divisive most attempts discussing things with someone of different beliefs become very defensive.
I'm saying that being vegan shouldn't be linked to any other befief, whether religious, or political. in other words, intersectionality IS important in all Rights movements
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#17 Old 07-03-2014, 04:45 PM
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Everyone has a right to their beliefs and no one has the right to infringe on others way of life if it doesn't concern them, or harm others.

There does seem to be a real opposition between the Christian Right who profess to be under attack, and the Humanists who want freedoms.
There is NO reason to link veg'ns or animal rights with any other group. There are people of all beliefs and cultures who have respect and advocacy to all animals.

There is another thread by BiteSizeVegan that addresses this issue. She did a very nice video for it on her site.
You don't think the Christian Right is under attack?
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#18 Old 07-03-2014, 05:41 PM
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You don't think the Christian Right is under attack?
I believe the christian right is under attack in the same way the beef and dairy industries are.
No one is forcing them to change their own sexuallity, or keep them from their churches, or what's in their heads. It's only when they attack the personal freedoms of others, or insist that their religion be given preference, as in rewriting history and science, that they're denied. How is imposing ones prejudice on others cultural, racial, or sexual beliefs a right?
What I'm hearing is:
middle aged Christian white men are the most discriminated group these days.
women should not have the right to control their bodily functions
it's okay to teach children that others are wrong even when no "wrong" is done
Christian beliefs should be taught in public schools along with science
It's their right to post highway billboards proclaiming "God is Real. Believe or go to (a pictorial depiction of Hell). It is NOT okay to have privately funded billboards with "Be Good for Goodness Sake. God is not Real.

It's been my experience that mentioning you're an atheist or agnostic is far, far worse than advocating your veganess. More day by day.

I can respect different beliefs. I cannot respect beliefs that infringe on the rights of others.
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#19 Old 07-03-2014, 06:51 PM
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I was stating a common trend at least in my area of the U.S. It's becoming so common for people to be divisive most attempts discussing things with someone of different beliefs become very defensive.
I'm saying that being vegan shouldn't be linked to any other befief, whether religious, or political. in other words, intersectionality IS important in all Rights movements
But isn't intersectionality seeing the common struggles of all Rights movements? (be it feminism, or civil rights, or LGBTQAI rights, or Animal Rights). The idea that if something is oppressing one of us, it's oppressing all of us. The best example I can think of is that I can't be a feminist, who is anti-gay. It doesn't make sense because if I accept that sexism belittles women as 'other' and 'weak', it also promotes homophobia that classes gay men as 'weak' because they are like women. I see those as being a political belief.

I don't think it's a bad thing, personally, if someone wants to link their vegan belief with their religion. If someone is religious, then that does guide or shape who they are, it guides their arguments and so therefore has a place when they answer the question as to 'why' they might be a vegan. I don't think it ALWAYS has to come up, but if it's part of their story then it's important.

Especially, as some people will use their religion to argue as to why they should keep using animals "Because this book I read said I should" (when actually most religions at least hold a vegetarian diet in high esteem and all but a few 'require' the eating of meat). So, having others that can argue against that, to me is a good thing.

Sorry if I've completely misunderstood what you're saying, I just find the topic incredibly interesting :P
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#20 Old 07-03-2014, 08:04 PM
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I'm sorry to hear about your experience. People are just jerks!!

I've found that being considerate of others really opens up a lot of doors, and it's just the right thing to do (duh!) I feel like most people are all just after the same thing...a comfortable life for themselves and the people they care about. So why fight? It's the same story just told in different "languages". I can't say I'm perfect and I haven't said or thought mean things before. (Especially when I'm hangry lol) But I'm tryin', just like everyone else.

Don't let that girl get to you. Take care.

Also, one of my favorite pictures ever: (Wayne Coyne of the Flaming Lips)
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#21 Old 07-03-2014, 08:10 PM
 
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I'm sorry to hear about your experience. People are just jerks!!

I've found that being considerate of others really opens up a lot of doors, and it's just the right thing to do (duh!) I feel like most people are all just after the same thing...a comfortable life for themselves and the people they care about. So why fight? It's the same story just told in different "languages". I can't say I'm perfect and I haven't said or thought mean things before. (Especially when I'm hangry lol) But I'm tryin', just like everyone else.

Don't let that girl get to you. Take care.

Also, one of my favorite pictures ever: (Wayne Coyne of the Flaming Lips)
Thanks so much, I really need to hear that. I love that picture
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What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
To deny an animal the right to live just for your own convenience, preference or ego is to deny your own humanity
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#22 Old 07-03-2014, 08:56 PM
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Thanks so much, I really need to hear that. I love that picture
Anytime.
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#23 Old 07-06-2014, 08:38 AM
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I think many people find ways to tie their beliefs together. So there are vegans who are atheists who see these issues as connected (eg humans create morality not God and we have no right to impose our will on other innocent beings for no good reason and since there's really no good reason to eat animals then we shouldn't ). And there are also vegans who are theists who see these issues as connected (eg man may have dominion over animals but that means we have a duty to care for them responsibly not to be cruel to them). And there are many nonvegans who are theists who see these issues as connected (eg God made animals for people to eat).

So... I think the best solution to be respectful of others' beliefs is to separate the issues entirely.

The problem is that many people feel this link between their beliefs so strongly that they feel the entire paradigm must be shifted/accepted in order for it to be right. They're not interested in making small progress immediately, they want a regime change.




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#24 Old 07-06-2014, 08:55 AM
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But isn't intersectionality seeing the common struggles of all Rights movements? (be it feminism, or civil rights, or LGBTQAI rights, or Animal Rights). The idea that if something is oppressing one of us, it's oppressing all of us. The best example I can think of is that I can't be a feminist, who is anti-gay. It doesn't make sense because if I accept that sexism belittles women as 'other' and 'weak', it also promotes homophobia that classes gay men as 'weak' because they are like women. I see those as being a political belief.

I don't think it's a bad thing, personally, if someone wants to link their vegan belief with their religion. If someone is religious, then that does guide or shape who they are, it guides their arguments and so therefore has a place when they answer the question as to 'why' they might be a vegan. I don't think it ALWAYS has to come up, but if it's part of their story then it's important.

Especially, as some people will use their religion to argue as to why they should keep using animals "Because this book I read said I should" (when actually most religions at least hold a vegetarian diet in high esteem and all but a few 'require' the eating of meat). So, having others that can argue against that, to me is a good thing.

Sorry if I've completely misunderstood what you're saying, I just find the topic incredibly interesting :P
I understand you! I really meant the same things. Esp the example of not being a feminist who is anti-gay. No ones beliefs should restrict the freedom of others with different beliefs.

My example of extreme Christian right is of the extreme. A local radio show that had been good to understand why people had different views than myself has gone pretty extreme. An example was a caller who was convinced America is now "reverse apartheid". They use every Christian affliation to support the idea that America is and should be a Christian nation and be applied to the law of the land, as well as education, but reject the inclusiveness that so many Christians support.

Of course it's all like a venn diagram. As long as our veg'n views are a part I'm good!
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