Should I buy any of these Omega 3 (EPA-DHA) supplements? - VeggieBoards
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#2 Old 04-13-2014, 01:34 AM
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Flaxseed isn't a source of DHA and EPA instead it contains ALA which can be converted, in very small amounts, to DHA and EPA in the body. Whether or not you should supplement with DHA/EPA is contested and more recent studies aren't finding any benefit.....but these studies aren't done on vegetarians.

Flaxseed isn't the only plant based source of omega-3, soy foods, canola oil, some nuts and many vegetables are a reasonable source as well.
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#3 Old 04-13-2014, 11:20 AM
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This was in the other thread about DHA, and very informative:

http://plenteousveg.com/vegan-sources-omega-3/


I've been using cronometer.com to see what kinds of foods I normally eat in day fare with the right 3-6-9 ratio and was surprised it's not that routine to eat omega 3's on a 1 to 1 ratio with 6. I thought I did better.

 

I do find that taking a algae DHA supplement improves my focus, quite noticeably. I take Ovega-3 from amazon. It's pretty much the same formula as the Opti3 without the vegan D3. I'd try that if I were in the UK. Their website has a 3 for the price of 2 offer now.

 

This article had research from some reputable sources. like Furhman and Ginny Messina:

http://thevegantruth.blogspot.com/2012/04/dha-epa-omega-3s-and-vegans.html


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#4 Old 04-15-2014, 03:54 PM
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Flaxseed isn't the only plant based source of omega-3, soy foods, canola oil, some nuts and many vegetables are a reasonable source as well.

The problem with oils and some nuts is that they have high amounts of Omega 6, which blocks the conversion of Omega 3 to DHA (see the link that Silva shared).

 

I just try to eat some healthy fatty acids at each meal (seeds in my salads, flax oil in my oatmeal,  greens a must with dinner, etc). 

 

If you are eating a lot of processed foods though, then you might be lacking in fatty acids.  Deva makes tablets and liquid drops which are pretty cheap.  The liquid ones come out to like $7 per month.  Here is where you can find them and other vegan Omega 3 and DHA vitamins.

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#5 Old 04-15-2014, 04:53 PM
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Would I be right to assume that since I have a noticable improvement in focus and handling stress when taking algae DHA and EPA I have problems assimilating them? 

I think I eat properly--although it didn't come up as 1:1 when I did a days diet on cronometer. More like 1:4. That was eye opening! It really isn't that easy.


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#6 Old 04-15-2014, 07:17 PM
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The problem with oils and some nuts is that they have high amounts of Omega 6, which blocks the conversion of Omega 3 to DHA (see the link that Silva shared).
Canola oil is a rich source of omega-3 and it has a good omega-6/omega-3 ratio. Some nuts have high amounts of omega-6 and some don't, I was referring to the omega-3 rich nuts (e.g., walnuts).
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#7 Old 04-16-2014, 02:09 AM
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Walnuts actually have a lot of Omega 6 (2542mg Omega 3 and 10666 Omega 6).  So, in theory, they aren't the best source of Omega 3 if you are worried about the DHA conversion.

 

So long as you aren't eating a junk-food diet, I honestly wouldn't stress too much about the 3/6 ratios (though it is good to be aware of the issues, especially when obnoxious omnivores start quizzing you on your diet!).  It seems ridiculous to stress over the Omega 6 ratios of natural foods, but then go out and consume something deep fried and overflowing with Omega 6.  I do put flax oil in my morning oatmeal (cheap and easy to do) and always have healthy fats with every meal. 

 

 

Note:

"There are no established daily requirements for DHA and EPA. The Heart Foundation recommends that adults consume 500 mg of DHA and EPA combined per day. Most studies will put the recommended amount of DHA at a minimum of 1000mg per day, but interestingly the recommended amount of DHA from algae supplements is only 200mg. The minimum daily recommended amount of EPA for adults is 220 mg per day."

http://plenteousveg.com/essential-fatty-acids-omega-3/

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#8 Old 04-17-2014, 12:11 AM
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Walnuts actually have a lot of Omega 6 (2542mg Omega 3 and 10666 Omega 6).  So, in theory, they aren't the best source of Omega 3 if you are worried about the DHA conversion.
Walnuts have a good omega-3 to omega-6 ratio so even if you think that this ratio is important (and there is little evidence that it is important) walnuts would be a good source of omega-3.
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#9 Old 04-17-2014, 04:28 AM
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How is 2542:10666 a good ratio?   There is actually quite a good bit of information that it is important...

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The large adventist health 2 study found no evidence of deficiency even though both vegetarians and vegans essentially consumed no DHA*. This is consistent with the long-standing evidence that DHA is not an essential nutrient for omnivores or veg*ns.

 

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1710093

 

 

*ADH2 had a pescetarian category

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#11 Old 04-17-2014, 09:47 PM
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How is 2542:10666 a good ratio?   There is actually quite a good bit of information that it is important...
That is a ratio of 1:4 which is considered good. I've seen a lot of hearsay that the ratio is important but I haven't seen any research that has clearly demonstrated that the ratio is important. This study suggests that the amount of omega-3, not the ratio, effects conversion:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/1/44.abstract
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#12 Old 04-19-2014, 04:45 AM
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I suggest that you read what Jack Norris wrote on the subject, and he cites many studies which used vegetarian and vegan subjects.  The study you reference only has 29 subjects and looks at 4 weeks. 

 

 

After analyzing the vegetarian studies, Jack Norris has this to say:

 

Quote:
 In summary, it appears that 3.7 grams of ALA per day is needed for vegetarians to see an effect in blood DHA percentages in the short-term. But, there isn't any research in which participants were asked to cut their LA intake at the same time that they increased ALA intake. So we don't really know if doing that would boost DHA levels in the blood or other tissues.

 

After analyzing the meat-eater studies, he says:

 

Quote:
 it appears that 3 g (equivalent of about 1-1/2 teaspoons of flaxseed oil) per day of ALA cannot increase blood percentages of DHA in three months time, but can increase blood percentages in 10 months time, assuming intake of omega-6 is low.

 

Vegetarians (and women!) seem to have a better conversion rate of Omega 3 to DHA and EPA, but there haven't been any extensive long-term research to show whether vegetarians should be worried about Omega 6/3 ratios.  So, Norris errs on the side of caution and recommends keeping Omega 3 intake high while keeping Omega 6 ratios low.  There is lots of info showing that too much Omega 6 has bad effects, causing inflammation, depression, etc.

 

I wouldn't ever advise cutting foods like walnuts out of one's diet as a means of reducing Omega 6.  However, we ALL (veg and omnivore alike!) should probably be cutting our intake of oily foods, like foods fried in canola oil, because it has way too much Omega 6. 

 

The Jack Norris link: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/omega3#n6n3ratio

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#13 Old 04-19-2014, 10:20 AM
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I suggest that you read what Jack Norris wrote on the subject, and he cites many studies which used vegetarian and vegan subjects. 
I've seen what Jack Norris says but he is not a researcher and isn't conducting studies so his opinion on the matter is no more important that any other guy.
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Vegetarians (and women!) seem to have a better conversion rate of Omega 3 to DHA and EPA, but there haven't been any extensive long-term research to show whether vegetarians should be worried about Omega 6/3 ratios.  So, Norris errs on the side of caution and recommends keeping Omega 3 intake high while keeping Omega 6 ratios low.  There is lots of info showing that too much Omega 6 has bad effects, causing inflammation, depression, etc.
Jack Norris can whatever opinion he wants, but where is the research that clearly demonstrates the importance of the omega-3/omega-6 ratio? Before people are advised to micro-manage their omega-3/omega-6 ratio and avoid omega-6 rich foods, many of which have been shown to be healthful, shouldn't there be a demonstration that its important?

There is a lot of "information" that omega-6 has bad effects....information that largely comes from groups promoting meat-based diets rich in saturated fat. But, again, where is the research that demonstrates that omega-6 rich whole foods are bad? . The hypothesis that omega-6 fatty acids are unhealthy is a bit strange, at first sight, given that omega-6 fatty acids are the only fats that humans actually need to consume in fairly large quantity (omega-3 needs are much lower than omega-6 and the other fats are all unessential).
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I wouldn't ever advise cutting foods like walnuts out of one's diet as a means of reducing Omega 6.  However, we ALL (veg and omnivore alike!) should probably be cutting our intake of oily foods, like foods fried in canola oil, because it has way too much Omega 6. 
To say it again, canola oil is not an omega-6 rich oil and has a good omega-3/omega-6 ratio. There are good reasons to largely avoid fried foods or foods otherwise rich in oils but the omega-6 content couldn't be one of them until there its been demonstrated to be important. But oils aren't the only omega-6 rich foods, many nuts and seeds are also rich in omega-6. Should people be restricting nut and seed intake despite numerous studies demonstrating health benefits from these foods?
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#14 Old 04-19-2014, 07:10 PM
 
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I've seen what Jack Norris says but he is not a researcher and isn't conducting studies so his opinion on the matter is no more important that any other guy.
Jack Norris can whatever opinion he wants, but where is the research that clearly demonstrates the importance of the omega-3/omega-6 ratio? Before people are advised to micro-manage their omega-3/omega-6 ratio and avoid omega-6 rich foods, many of which have been shown to be healthful, shouldn't there be a demonstration that its important?

There is a lot of "information" that omega-6 has bad effects....information that largely comes from groups promoting meat-based diets rich in saturated fat. But, again, where is the research that demonstrates that omega-6 rich whole foods are bad? . The hypothesis that omega-6 fatty acids are unhealthy is a bit strange, at first sight, given that omega-6 fatty acids are the only fats that humans actually need to consume in fairly large quantity (omega-3 needs are much lower than omega-6 and the other fats are all unessential).
To say it again, canola oil is not an omega-6 rich oil and has a good omega-3/omega-6 ratio. There are good reasons to largely avoid fried foods or foods otherwise rich in oils but the omega-6 content couldn't be one of them until there its been demonstrated to be important. But oils aren't the only omega-6 rich foods, many nuts and seeds are also rich in omega-6. Should people be restricting nut and seed intake despite numerous studies demonstrating health benefits from these foods?

 

 

i have to agree with logic even though i often defend norris in our conversations here.

 

http://jacknorrisrd.com/dha-recommendations-follow-up/

 

a repost of my comment on jack norris' blog:

 

Many large human populations do not consume fish or visceral organ meats in significant quantities and yet there is no evidence of developmental issues associated with DHA deficiency in these populations. Morerover, the miniscule amounts of DHA and EPA present in non-aquatic foods strongly suggests that DHA levels in the adult brain are largely derived from endogenous synthesis and/or recycling.

 

This is born out by analysis of the Epic cohort (and other epidemiological data):

DHA consumption
fish eaters: 0.19 ± 0.22
meat eaters: 0.02 ± 0.02
vegetarians: 0.0007 ± 0.004
vegans: 0 ± 0

Plasma DHA:
fish eaters: 239.7 ± 106.2
meat eaters: 215.6 ± 96.4
vegetarians222.2 ± 138.4
vegans: 195.0 ± 58.8

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/5/1040.long

Meta-analyses of the current literature also find little evidence that n-3 pufa supplementation affects developmental outcomes:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/4/857.short
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8586704
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000375.pub4/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19881391

(Note the Cochrane meta-analysis.)

And the only *well-powered* study for pregnant women found absolutely zilch:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=186750

 

And Diane if you want my credentials please PM me and I will provide them.

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#15 Old 04-19-2014, 07:20 PM
 
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like foods fried in canola oil, because it has way too much Omega 6

 

canola oil is a great source of ALA and has a far better "ratio" than olive oil.

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#16 Old 04-19-2014, 08:03 PM
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...I am bowing out of this thread and ordering more algae DHA!

I can't keep up---the capsules make me feel better!


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#17 Old 04-20-2014, 06:17 AM
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So, maybe Omega 3 to 6 ratio is complete hogwash and only intake of Omega 3 matters.  For the majority of us who don't have doctorates, the information is incredibly overwhelming -- which is why so many decide to err on the side of caution and take supplements or steps to reduce Omega 6 intake. 

 

Just curious given your stance about 3:6 ratio, what would you recommend for vegans on a junk-food diet (let's face it, a lot of vegans, especially newbies and teens who don't have control over grocery shopping, subsist on spaghetti and gimme lean)?  Would you say they should supplement with Omega 3, like flax oil, and assume that the body is doing its job of converting it to DHA despite high amounts of Omega 6 in the diet.  Or would you say that they should play it safe and also take DHA?

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#18 Old 04-20-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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So, maybe Omega 3 to 6 ratio is complete hogwash and only intake of Omega 3 matters.  For the majority of us who don't have doctorates, the information is incredibly overwhelming -- which is why so many decide to err on the side of caution and take supplements or steps to reduce Omega 6 intake. 

 

Just curious given your stance about 3:6 ratio, what would you recommend for vegans on a junk-food diet (let's face it, a lot of vegans, especially newbies and teens who don't have control over grocery shopping, subsist on spaghetti and gimme lean)?  Would you say they should supplement with Omega 3, like flax oil, and assume that the body is doing its job of converting it to DHA despite high amounts of Omega 6 in the diet.  Or would you say that they should play it safe and also take DHA?

 

I'm undecided when it comes to dietary advice on pufa ratios because the current literature is sparse and conflicted. I think taking algal DHA is probably harmless and may be a good idea for pregnant vegans. Unless a vegan is consuming low amounts of ALA (rare given the abundance of this fat in vegan food) I personally see no reason to recommend supplementation.

 

 

I think al dente spaghetti gets unfairly trashed. In terms of glycemic load and undigestible non-gelatinized starch (physiologically similar to soluble fiber) al dente pasta is a good carb choice. (al dente asta has a lower glycemic index than 100% whole grain breads.)

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#19 Old 04-20-2014, 11:37 AM
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.  For the majority of us who don't have doctorates, the information is incredibly overwhelming -- which is why so many decide to err on the side of caution and take supplements or steps to reduce Omega 6 intake. 
With nutrition there is a lot of noise which is created by all the various marketing efforts by those in the food, supplement, etc industry. But if you ignore the noise and just look at what reliable health organizations are saying I don't think its that overwhelming, these organizations are conservative and only alter their recommendations once the science is relatively clear.

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Just curious given your stance about 3:6 ratio, what would you recommend for vegans on a junk-food diet (let's face it, a lot of vegans, especially newbies and teens who don't have control over grocery shopping, subsist on spaghetti and gimme lean)?  Would you say they should supplement with Omega 3, like flax oil, and assume that the body is doing its job of converting it to DHA despite high amounts of Omega 6 in the diet.  Or would you say that they should play it safe and also take DHA?
Not sure which one of us you're asking but I don't take the whole junk-food veg*n very seriously because few of these people, from what I can tell, remain veg*n for long. Also I don't like the idea of creating mock animal products, even if they aren't junk, as a way of promoting veg*n diets because it re-enforces numerous stereotypes about vegetarian diets. For example, the idea that vegetarian diets involve some sort of major culinary sacrifice.

In any case, insufficient omega-3 is just one of many dietary issues one is likely to experience on a junk-food diet so I don't see any sense in isolating omega-3 as an issue that is more important than the others. Instead of recommending expensive oils, supplements, etc....I think one should try to promote better overall dietary practices.
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#20 Old 04-20-2014, 11:50 AM
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I think al dente spaghetti gets unfairly trashed. In terms of glycemic load and undigestible non-gelatinized starch (physiologically similar to soluble fiber) al dente pasta is a good carb choice. (al dente asta has a lower glycemic index than 100% whole grain breads.)
Refined pasta's are fairly trashed and it is, I think, particularly important for vegetarians to eat 100% whole wheat instead of refined wheat. The differences in glycemic load are of little importance, what is far more important is that refined pasta is nutrient poor and depends on fortification to be worth eating at all. But the fortification is very limited and, for example, a vegetarian that primary eats refined grain products will likely under consume zinc as whole grains are one of the primary sources of this nutrient in vegetarian diets.

Considering the wide availability of 100% whole grain pasta, bread, etc and the health benefits of consuming whole grains I can't think of any reason to promote refined grain products.
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#21 Old 04-20-2014, 01:33 PM
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I like whole wheat grains, and in bread, but I'd rather give up pasta than eat whole wheat. I only have it maybe twice a month, so I'm going with unethical on this one!


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#22 Old 04-20-2014, 01:57 PM
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I like whole wheat grains, and in bread, but I'd rather give up pasta than eat whole wheat. I only have it maybe twice a month, so I'm going with unethical on this one!
A taste preference for refined wheat over whole wheat pasta shouldn't be the basis of whether one should be eaten over the other. Preferences can change, much of what we like is a matter of cultural preferences and dietary habits. Today I prefer whole wheat pasta over refined pasta, whole wheat has a rich and nutty flavor compared to refined pasta, but years ago I ate refined pasta.
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#23 Old 04-20-2014, 08:26 PM
 
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Refined pasta's are fairly trashed and it is, I think, particularly important for vegetarians to eat 100% whole wheat instead of refined wheat. The differences in glycemic load are of little importance, what is far more important is that refined pasta is nutrient poor and depends on fortification to be worth eating at all.

 

IMO, the additional nutrients and fiber in whole grain pasta are negligible in the context of a balanced diet (especially since many whole wheat pastas are also fortified).

Moreover, the processing of durum into pasta creates high levels of resistant starches that are increasingly seen to be beneficial:

http://advances.nutrition.org/content/4/6/587.short

There is also a growing literature suggesting that low GI starches, like al dente pasta, are correlated with reduced risk for metabolic syndrome and certain cancers.

 

 

Quote:
But the fortification is very limited and, for example, a vegetarian that primary eats refined grain products will likely under consume zinc as whole grains are one of the primary sources of this nutrient in vegetarian diets. Considering the wide availability of 100% whole grain pasta, bread, etc and the health benefits of consuming whole grains I can't think of any reason to promote refined grain products.

 

I agree that whole grain bread is a better choice. However, al dente pasta has a very different nutritional (and GI response) from wonder bread.

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#24 Old 04-20-2014, 11:15 PM
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IMO, the additional nutrients and fiber in whole grain pasta are negligible in the context of a balanced diet (especially since many whole wheat pastas are also fortified).
They aren't negligible given that grain products typically make up a significant percent of one's diet and, as I mentioned, whole grains are one of the primary sources of zinc in a vegan diet.
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Moreover, the processing of durum into pasta creates high levels of resistant starches that are increasingly seen to be beneficial:
http://advances.nutrition.org/content/4/6/587.short
There is also a growing literature suggesting that low GI starches, like al dente pasta, are correlated with reduced risk for metabolic syndrome and certain cancers.
Processing wheat into refined pasta doesn't create resistant starches, that would require biochemical changes, and whole wheat products contain more resistant starches than refined wheat products.

The importance of glycemic load on health is not known and in western countries glycemic load is highly correlated with sugar, refined grain, etc consumption so its rather difficult to study the relationship in any serious way. Given that there are numerous populations that consume potatoes as a staple, which are one of the highest glycemic foods, and have low rates of obesity, type 2 diabetes, etc it would seem that any relationship found in western countries is due to confounding. But this is a moot point, whole wheat pasta has a lower glycemic index than refined pasta when prepared the same way.
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However, al dente pasta has a very different nutritional (and GI response) from wonder bread.
The nutritional value is the same.
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#25 Old 04-21-2014, 02:42 AM
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With nutrition there is a lot of noise which is created by all the various marketing efforts by those in the food, supplement, etc industry. But if you ignore the noise and just look at what reliable health organizations are saying I don't think its that overwhelming, these organizations are conservative and only alter their recommendations once the science is relatively clear.
 

Not sure which one of us you're asking but I don't take the whole junk-food veg*n very seriously because few of these people, from what I can tell, remain veg*n for long. Also I don't like the idea of creating mock animal products, even if they aren't junk, as a way of promoting veg*n diets because it re-enforces numerous stereotypes about vegetarian diets. For example, the idea that vegetarian diets involve some sort of major culinary sacrifice.

In any case, insufficient omega-3 is just one of many dietary issues one is likely to experience on a junk-food diet so I don't see any sense in isolating omega-3 as an issue that is more important than the others. Instead of recommending expensive oils, supplements, etc....I think one should try to promote better overall dietary practices.

Sorry logic, but I find this response depressing and unhelpful, especially in the context of a forum which is supposed to help people.  As for "ignoring the noise", how is a newbie vegan supposed to do this?  New vegans find themselves facing information they'd never thought about before.  I mean, do you think the average person knows what B12 is, or complete proteins -- especially in the context of their own diets?   Vegan advocates can be just as guilty as the meat-industry/supplement-industry advocates in creating noise.  I can't tell you how many times I've read on vegan sites things like "B12 isn't necessary because we produce it from bacteria in our guts" or "if you ever ate meat, you've got enough B12 stored to last a lifetime."  These people (even if they have good intentions) do the same thing that is common online: finding one "study" which supports what they already want to believe and using it as fact.  *You can prove anything so long as you are willing to overlook all the evidence to the contrary! Yes, it is definitely overwhelming!

 

As for junk food vegans, maybe they don't last because they start feeling like crap...  I feel that these junk food vegans are the ones we should take most seriously, because they are the ones who need the most help transitioning.   Most Americans eat a crap diet.  But (I know people are going to hate me for saying this) it is easier to meet RDAs for things like iron, B12, and calcium on an omnivorous junk food diet than a vegan junk food diet (though obviously the cholesterol, etc will catch up later!). 

 

One way to make the transition easier for junk food vegans is to use supplements.  I feel kind of weird calling flax a supplement since it is a straight-up food, but you can add a spoonful of flax oil to your morning junk-food cereal and be closer to getting your RDAs for Omega 3.  Food should always come before supplements, but supplements can help while people figure out what a healthy diet is and how to realize it.  If they don't feel like crap from nutrient deficiencies, they will be more likely to stick with it and thus have the time to learn new recipes, how to soak their own beans, and 100 things to do with lentils :)

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#26 Old 04-21-2014, 12:39 PM
 
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They aren't negligible given that grain products typically make up a significant percent of one's diet and, as I mentioned, whole grains are one of the primary sources of zinc in a vegan diet.
Processing wheat into refined pasta doesn't create resistant starches, that would require biochemical changes, and whole wheat products contain more resistant starches than refined wheat products.

 

Dried durum wheat dough cooked al dente has very large quantities of resistant starch (the cause of the exceptionally low GI). Baked fermented wheat dough (whole grain or otherwise), not so much. Resistant starch and soluble fiber are important nutrients (they provide limited calories via fermentation) that are believed to be beneficial due to their effect on gut function and gut microflora.

 

I've never understood why you are so concerned about zinc. Zinc is found in many foods and, IMO, a veg*n would have to eat an incredibly poor diet to be zinc deficient.

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#27 Old 04-21-2014, 02:53 PM
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Dried durum wheat dough cooked al dente has very large quantities of resistant starch (the cause of the exceptionally low GI). Baked fermented wheat dough (whole grain or otherwise), not so much. Resistant starch and soluble fiber are important nutrients (they provide limited calories via fermentation) that are believed to be beneficial due to their effect on gut function and gut microflora.
You're not addressing anything, instead merely repeating yourself. I'm not debating the importance of resistant starch and I have no idea why you're comparing refined pasta to bread, the comparison is between refined pasta and whole grain pasta. Whole grain pasta is a richer source of resistant starch than refined pasta, therefore by your argument, one should be eating whole grain pasta. I'm glad you agree.

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I've never understood why you are so concerned about zinc. Zinc is found in many foods and, IMO, a veg*n would have to eat an incredibly poor diet to be zinc deficient.
I'm concerned because its very easy for vegetarians to have low or marginal zinc intake which is different, of course, than having zinc deficiency which requires very low intake. I'm certainly now alone in this view, for example, "Becoming Vegan" has a section on zinc and zinc intake is highlighted throughout the book. Even Norris talks about this, but his solution seems to be supplementation. Furthermore its typically recommended that vegetarians, especially those eating a diet high in fiber, have higher zinc intake.

Zinc is found in many foods, but the vast majority of plant foods have low levels and whole grains are one of the richest vegan sources of zinc. But whole grains contain numerous micro-nutrients that have largely been stripped away from refined grain products.

So, again, given the ease of substituting whole grain products for refine grain products I don't understand why anybody would promote refined grain products.
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#28 Old 04-21-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by infinitefriend9 View Post

....Or is it sufficient to just take 70g of Flaxseeds daily with my breakfast, as it is a more natural source?



Thank you

WHOA- did you really mean to type "70 grams"? Only 454 grams make a full pound. Or, if you want to stay metric, that's almost a tenth of a kilogram- a LOT of flax seed for one day.

 

(I'm still, uhhh, digesting the info in this thread...)


Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.
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#29 Old 04-21-2014, 03:53 PM
 
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therefore by your argument, one should be eating whole grain pasta. I'm glad you agree.

 

there really is not much evidence that a highly restrictive whole-food (whole-grain) diet provides more benefit than one that is mostly whole-food based. there is a point of diminishing returns with any nutrient. i'm not at all convinced that the type of diet promoted by esselstyn and mcdougall has any benefit over a less restrictive one that allows for modest consumption of refined grains and plant-based fats.

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#30 Old 04-21-2014, 05:00 PM
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Cashews, garbanzo beans, pumpkin seeds, and spinach are good zinc sources, off the top of my head.
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