642 days on the Ornish heart-reversal program and gaining weight - panic - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 02-17-2014, 04:26 PM
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Mod post:

Just a gentle reminder that pro-meat posts are not allowed.

Keep it awesome wink3.gif

 

It was not a pro-meat post. It was a discussion I was having about my diet. If I am going to be censored I'll just leave.

 

Sigh...

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#32 Old 02-17-2014, 04:31 PM
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Can you be more specific about your digestive problems?

 

Any details can help.  Do you have IBS?  How long does it take to happen after you eat?  Where is the upset, and how does it manifest?  What foods trigger it, and how?

 

 

Protein is very easy to get enough of- if absolutely need be, you could use a protein shake.  The most important thing is to figure out what's upsetting your stomach.

 

As to being full; a lot of that has to do with stomach capacity.  Sometimes it's worth going on a liquid diet for a while to kind of reset everything, if you find your eating is getting out of hand.

 

 

If you're looking for something low calorie and filling, have you tried Konjac?

 

Gas, bloating and having to go to the bathroom too much. I do not have IBS. Before going vegan my digestive system was just fine. And since adding white rice to my vegan diet it is also fine. Just too many calories and extreme hunger urges. Doesn't matter if it is white rice or brown rice. But brown rice isn't as helpful with the digestion issue. I think too much fiber.

 

I do eat kon'yaku also, with miso paste.

 

I'm looking for main staples. Without the rice it seems my digestive system is a mess. With it it's fine and comfortable on the vegan diet, but I can't lose weight and my weight is creeping out and it causes me to be hungry all the time.

 

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#33 Old 02-17-2014, 06:05 PM
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100 g of sweet potato is teensy tiny. 100 g of rice is also an incredibly small amount. It is not a main serving. It's a tiny side-dish not even worth preparing I think. Plus it has only trace amounts of protein.
100 grams of chicken breast also is a small amount and the fact that the rice and potato are lower in protein is of little consequence. You don't need to eat foods that are concentrated sources of protein to consume sufficient protein.
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The point I was making was that these starchy foods, while tasty, trigger hunger spikes for me. That's the main issue. I'm eating too much. I'm trying to control my appetite so I can get my weight under control. These foods like potatoes and rice just make me hungrier. They are not filling.
I'm really not sure what "hunger spikes" are and what you're describing sounds more psychological than it does physiological. But one should be eating starches with vegetables, 500 calories of starches plus 100~150 calories of vegetables makes a pretty large meal. It would be strange for someone to still feel hunger after such a meal.

Its still not clear what you're eating.
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#34 Old 02-17-2014, 06:05 PM
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Doug. I haven't read all the posts yet, but Doug, you know the important thing is your heart health, not how many kilos you weigh.

Are you sure your fluid balance is okay? That quick a weight gain can easily be edema.

I can see why you're hungry eating that few calories, but adding back the very foods that almost killed you a couple of years ago seems counterintuitive.

I think that eating more very low calorie foods like cabbage soup, greens, etc could help fill you up. How about some of those cool Japanese dried mushrooms? They are oddly filling.
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#35 Old 02-17-2014, 06:18 PM
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100 grams of chicken breast also is a small amount and the fact that the rice and potato are lower in protein is of little consequence. You don't need to eat foods that are concentrated sources of protein to consume sufficient protein.
I'm really not sure what "hunger spikes" are and what you're describing sounds more psychological than it does physiological. But one should be eating starches with vegetables, 500 calories of starches plus 100~150 calories of vegetables makes a pretty large meal. It would be strange for someone to still feel hunger after such a meal.

Its still not clear what you're eating.

The phenomenon of these kinds of hunger spikes are very well documented. They are a physical effect, apparently causes by high-glycemic foods creating an insulin spike and crash which triggers hunger.

 

Here are some references:

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10885323

 

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/5068/161579/carbohydrates-hunger/

 

http://vectorblog.org/2013/06/this-is-your-brain-on-a-high-glycemic-diet/

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/glycemic-index-diet/art-20048478

 

It's a well recognized phenomenon. And it is physical, not merely psychological. Not everybody experiences it. If you have extremely stable blood sugar, perhaps you have not. But in many people, eating starches does not fill you up - it just makes you more hungry. That is true with me.

 

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#36 Old 02-17-2014, 06:24 PM
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Doug. I haven't read all the posts yet, but Doug, you know the important thing is your heart health, not how many kilos you weigh.

Are you sure your fluid balance is okay? That quick a weight gain can easily be edema.

I can see why you're hungry eating that few calories, but adding back the very foods that almost killed you a couple of years ago seems counterintuitive.

I think that eating more very low calorie foods like cabbage soup, greens, etc could help fill you up. How about some of those cool Japanese dried mushrooms? They are oddly filling.


I don't know how to measure fluid balance. But it is true that part of the weight gain must be water retention. I didn't eat rice yesterday and my weight is 2.2 kg less this morning than it was yesterday morning! That obviously must have been some kind of water retention.

 

Also by not eating rice, my hunger was more under control.

 

I did have some low fat cheese (224 cal, 34 g of protein, 2 g of fat) for the first time in two years and I think that also helped control my appetite.

 

I definitely would not add the foods that almost killed me before back. In particular, I would never make fried foods (vegan or not) and I wouldn't eat fatty cuts of any kind of meat. If I did add animal protein back it would most likely be low-fat cottage cheese and maybe some skinless chicken or tuna. I'm not going out to KFC. :)

 

I do eat shiitake. I like all kinds of mushrooms.

 

Still, they are not a "staple food." I guess what I'm saying is (1) I'm looking for a low calorie replacement for rice as a "staple" food and (2) also something that can help with digestive problems and (3) something that does not trigger hunger urges.

 

Low carb foods seem to help in those cases, which is why  I was thinking about it.

 

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#37 Old 02-17-2014, 07:24 PM
 
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Perhaps you could look at what vegan athletes eat when they are on the low carb phase of their carb cycling - namely protein shakes (which can be pretty filling), nut/seed oils, and green leafy vegetables.

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#38 Old 02-17-2014, 07:27 PM
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Perhaps you could look at what vegan athletes eat when they are on the low carb phase of their carb cycling - namely protein shakes (which can be pretty filling), nut/seed oils, and green leafy vegetables.

 

What do they use the oils for?

 

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#39 Old 02-17-2014, 07:32 PM
 
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What do they use the oils for?

doug

To maintain their intake of dietary fat I guess. Low carb doesn't mean low fat. But you can always omit it.

Also I meant bodybuilders not athletes sorry.

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#40 Old 02-17-2014, 08:47 PM
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The phenomenon of these kinds of hunger spikes are very well documented. They are a physical effect, apparently causes by high-glycemic foods creating an insulin spike and crash which triggers hunger.

Here are some references:
The articles you cited weren't about "hunger spikes" an to what degree high glycemic foods contribute to weight gain is not known. But given the popularity of low-carbohydrate diets, you're not going to have trouble finding articles condemning high carbohydrate foods. But there are many cultures that consume high glycemic diets that have low rates of obesity, so if there is any connection in western countries its likely due to the context of their consumption (e.g., saturated fats combined with refined carbohydrates).

A large spike in insulin and a crash in blood sugar afterwards is not a normal respond to high glycemic foods, a healthy individual should be able to consume high glycemic foods and not experience this. Have you had these issues tested before? Relying on feelings isn't that useful because its very hard to tell the difference between having an addictive relationship with food and one having legitimate blood sugar issues. I've mentioned this to you before, and Ornish talks about it as well, but people with a malfunctioning insulin response may do better with lower glycemic foods until their insulin response improves. That is why I mentioned nuts and seeds, eating even relatively small amounts of these with meals will help lower the overall glycemic load of the meal. On the other hand, high protein foods will effect your blood sugar similarly to a low/moderate glycemic carbohydrate rich food.
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#41 Old 02-17-2014, 09:52 PM
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The articles you cited weren't about "hunger spikes" an to what degree high glycemic foods contribute to weight gain is not known. But given the popularity of low-carbohydrate diets, you're not going to have trouble finding articles condemning high carbohydrate foods. But there are many cultures that consume high glycemic diets that have low rates of obesity, so if there is any connection in western countries its likely due to the context of their consumption (e.g., saturated fats combined with refined carbohydrates).

A large spike in insulin and a crash in blood sugar afterwards is not a normal respond to high glycemic foods, a healthy individual should be able to consume high glycemic foods and not experience this. Have you had these issues tested before? Relying on feelings isn't that useful because its very hard to tell the difference between having an addictive relationship with food and one having legitimate blood sugar issues. I've mentioned this to you before, and Ornish talks about it as well, but people with a malfunctioning insulin response may do better with lower glycemic foods until their insulin response improves. That is why I mentioned nuts and seeds, eating even relatively small amounts of these with meals will help lower the overall glycemic load of the meal. On the other hand, high protein foods will effect your blood sugar similarly to a low/moderate glycemic carbohydrate rich food.

 

I don't want to get argumentative, but the articles were indeed about hunger spikes and are the same thing I am experiencing.

Adding nuts to the problem is just going to add tons of extra calories. My goal right now is to avoid a rebound. I'm trying to reduce calories, not adding them.

 

It's obvious you and I will just go around in circles about this, so I will leave it at that.

 

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#42 Old 02-17-2014, 10:20 PM
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I don't want to get argumentative, but the articles were indeed about hunger spikes and are the same thing I am experiencing.
Adding nuts to the problem is just going to add tons of extra calories. My goal right now is to avoid a rebound. I'm trying to reduce calories, not adding them.
You're claiming that you're having "hunger spikes" in response to high glycemic foods which is causing you to over eat.....I'm suggesting ways you can lower the overall glycemic load of your meals which may better control your hunger. If your only goal is to reduce calories then including chicken or fish doesn't make sense, both of these have higher calorie density than starchy foods, vegetables and fruits.

But experiencing hunger in response to rice is not a normal reaction, have you been tested for diabetes? In any case you have some serious health conditions so you really should be having these sorts of discussions with your doctors.....or at least with people that have dealt with having heart disease, blood sugar issues and digestive problems.
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#43 Old 02-18-2014, 04:35 AM
 
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100 g of sweet potato is teensy tiny. 100 g of rice is also an incredibly small amount. It is not a main serving. It's a tiny side-dish not even worth preparing I think. Plus it has only trace amounts of protein.

 

 

Sweet potato and white (or brown) rice are mostly starch.  In order to get 56 grams of protein a day, you have to eat almost 2,600 calories of these things.

 

 

With black rice?  In order to get 56 grams of protein (the daily requirement), you need to eat about 1,700 calories of it.  Right on the money (for a reasonable weight loss calorie goal).

 

Wild rice is even better (you only need about 1300 calories to get 56 grams of protein).  But wild rice can be harder to find.

 

Okara is about the same as wild rice, but it will fill you up fast because it's really high in fiber (100 grams is only about 80 calories, so the bulk will fill you fast).

 

 

Half black rice, and half Okara.  It will fill you up (volume), and provide you more nutrition for fewer calories.  It's an excellent staple, and easy on the stomach.

 

Add a little bit of tofu and vegetables, and it's a great meal.

 

 

EDIT: I accidentally switched 56 and 65 in my head.  Fixed it.

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#44 Old 02-18-2014, 04:45 AM
 
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Gas, bloating and having to go to the bathroom too much. I do not have IBS. Before going vegan my digestive system was just fine. And since adding white rice to my vegan diet it is also fine. Just too many calories and extreme hunger urges. Doesn't matter if it is white rice or brown rice. But brown rice isn't as helpful with the digestion issue. I think too much fiber.

 

I do eat kon'yaku also, with miso paste.

 

I'm looking for main staples. Without the rice it seems my digestive system is a mess. With it it's fine and comfortable on the vegan diet, but I can't lose weight and my weight is creeping out and it causes me to be hungry all the time.

 

doug

 

Sorry, I missed this post before.

 

I'm not sure why brown rice would be less helpful- white and brown rice are almost identical.  Maybe it's an issue of too many phytates, which brown rice has more of, and which inhibit digestion.

 

A help to that could be soaking the rice overnight, then rinsing, and cooking.

 

Konjac and miso paste sounds great.

 

I hope you'll try Okara, and see if it helps.  I've never had any problems with it; it seems very settling.  Probably because almost all of the water soluble resistant starches and phytates leave with the soy milk (and the extensive soaking and cooking before the Okara is even separated from the soy milk), and it's just the bulk fibers left in a very well cooked state.

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#45 Old 02-18-2014, 04:46 AM
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Sweet potato and white (or brown) rice are mostly starch.  In order to get 65 grams of protein a day, you have to eat almost 3,000 calories of these things.

 

 

With black rice?  In order to get 65 grams of protein (the daily requirement), you need to eat about 2,000 calories of it.  Right on the money.

 

Wild rice is even better (you only need about 1500 calories to get 65 grams of protein).  But wild rice can be harder to find.

 

Okara is about the same as wild rice, but it will fill you up fast because it's really high in fiber (100 grams is only about 80 calories, so the bulk will fill you fast).

 

 

Half black rice, and half Okara.  It will fill you up (volume), and provide you more nutrition for fewer calories.  It's an excellent staple, and easy on the stomach.

 

Add a little bit of tofu and vegetables, and it's a great meal.

 

I might have gone into a panic over nothing regarding my diet. Since yesterday, in one day, my weight dropped 2.2 kg = almost 5 lb. Obviously there must have been some water retention.

Nevertheless, I think all the high-glycemic foods I’ve been eating (white rice, senbei, corn-on-the-cob) has altered my hunger cycles. Plus rice has a large number of calories for any decent-sized serving. So I’m going to stop eating rice every day and make a couple of minor, non-vegan, changes to my diet. If that means leaving this forum and switching to a different forum, so be it. Note to moderator: I am not a meat advocate! I am just trying to find the best way around my problem.

For example, I ate low-fat cottage cheese yesterday for the first time in 2 years. A container has only 224 calories, but a whopping 34 g of protein, and is very low fat, and very filling. Non-fat dairy is actually allowed on the Ornish heart-disease reversal program program, so I don’t feel this is too far off.

I decided not to add chicken, but I did add some small amounts of fish (sashimi) yesterday and today. That is also very low calorie and filling. I don’t think I’ll wreck my heart trying this for a couple of months. My dietician and doctors all recommended it in fact.

I also had some tofu, without any digestive distress. So really the changes I made were minor.

In early April I have my next checkup. If my cholesterol goes up I’ll rethink. Otherwise I might continue to allow small amounts of dairy and fish as part of my diet to help control appetite and keep calories low.

I will also check out okara. Thanks for the suggestion. But mostly I'll avoid rice for now because of the high calories and the way it affects my hunger. I'll not fanatically avoid it. I just won't make it my "staple" food.

Everybody is different. We all have to find our best way.

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#46 Old 02-18-2014, 04:48 AM
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Sorry, I missed this post before.

 

I'm not sure why brown rice would be less helpful- white and brown rice are almost identical.  Maybe it's an issue of too many phytates, which brown rice has more of, and which inhibit digestion.

 

A help to that could be soaking the rice overnight, then rinsing, and cooking.

 

Konjac and miso paste sounds great.

 

I hope you'll try Okara, and see if it helps.  I've never had any problems with it; it seems very settling.  Probably because almost all of the water soluble resistant starches and phytates leave with the soy milk (and the extensive soaking and cooking before the Okara is even separated from the soy milk), and it's just the bulk fibers left in a very well cooked state.

 

I actually do soak the rice overnight. But after rinsing. It soaks in the rice cooker which I set before going to sleep. But the calories are just too high, so I'm stopping that for now.

 

Yes, I love kon'yaku and miso paste. And it's only 53 calories (most of it the miso paste of course).

 

I will definitely check out okara.

 

Thanks,

 

doug

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#47 Old 02-18-2014, 04:51 AM
 
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But experiencing hunger in response to rice is not a normal reaction, have you been tested for diabetes? In any case you have some serious health conditions so you really should be having these sorts of discussions with your doctors.....or at least with people that have dealt with having heart disease, blood sugar issues and digestive problems.

 

I don't agree.  I think it's pretty normal to be hungry a few minutes after eating a bowl of white rice.  It's too quickly and easily digested, and so contains very little fiber or anything else to keep a person satisfied for hours.

 

General practitioners don't know much about nutrition (they spend like a week on it, and their information is decades outdated), and if he's in Japan, it's going to be hard to find a registered dietitian who has any knowledge of or experience with a vegan diet.  To guess, I'd put his chances much higher at getting good professional advice on a vegan diet deep in the heart of Texas.

 

The internet is probably his best bet.  I'm glad he came here for a second opinion.

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#48 Old 02-18-2014, 05:16 AM
 
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I might have gone into a panic over nothing regarding my diet. Since yesterday, in one day, my weight dropped 2.2 kg = almost 5 lb. Obviously there must have been some water retention.

 

Probably.  This can also be due to other non-diet factors.  Or you might have just eaten more salt.

 
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For example, I ate low-fat cottage cheese yesterday for the first time in 2 years. A container has only 224 calories, but a whopping 34 g of protein, and is very low fat, and very filling. Non-fat dairy is actually allowed on the Ornish heart-disease reversal program program, so I don’t feel this is too far off.


Fat free cottage cheese is mostly whey protein + salt and water.

The problem is that while this may seem to fill you up, it's not going to be offering you a lot of other nutrition as veggies would.  And the concentrated source of protein is going to result in your diet containing too much protein (which has its own problems).

Either you eat cottage cheese, and then fast (in which case, you'll end up deficient in a lot of vitamins and minerals)
Or you eat cottage cheese, and eat enough other food aside (in which case, your diet contains more protein than is ideally healthy)

If it doesn't upset your stomach, better to fill up on Konjac- which is mostly just water.  Since it won't result in you eating too much protein.

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In early April I have my next checkup. If my cholesterol goes up I’ll rethink. Otherwise I might continue to allow small amounts of dairy and fish as part of my diet to help control appetite and keep calories low.


Please just remember, cholesterol levels and weight are not the only markers of health.  Eating more protein than you should in a day, particularly without the benefit of the vitamins and minerals that come with it in vegetables, isn't ideal as a way to lose weight.

You'll be better off eating more vegetables (which are rich in protein, fiber, and a number of vitamins and minerals, and lack negative qualities like heavy metals that are in fish - or carcinogens that are in cooked fish [if you're eating it cooked]) rather than loading up on protein to suppress appetite.
 

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​I will also check out okara. Thanks for the suggestion. But mostly I'll avoid rice for now because of the high calories and the way it affects my hunger. I'll not fanatically avoid it. I just won't make it my "staple" food.

 

 

I hope you like Okara.  Filling up on fiber is definitely the best way.

Avoiding white and even brown rice is a good call.  But try to remember that black rice is enormously different, from a nutritional perspective- wild rice even more so.

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#49 Old 02-18-2014, 05:19 AM
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Probably.  This can also be due to other non-diet factors.  Or you might have just eaten more salt.


Fat free cottage cheese is mostly whey protein + salt and water.

The problem is that while this may seem to fill you up, it's not going to be offering you a lot of other nutrition as veggies would.  And the concentrated source of protein is going to result in your diet containing too much protein (which has its own problems).

Either you eat cottage cheese, and then fast (in which case, you'll end up deficient in a lot of vitamins and minerals)
Or you eat cottage cheese, and eat enough other food aside (in which case, your diet contains more protein than is ideally healthy)

If it doesn't upset your stomach, better to fill up on Konjac- which is mostly just water.  Since it won't result in you eating too much protein.


Please just remember, cholesterol levels and weight are not the only markers of health.  Eating more protein than you should in a day, particularly without the benefit of the vitamins and minerals that come with it in vegetables, isn't ideal as a way to lose weight.

You'll be better off eating more vegetables (which are rich in protein, fiber, and a number of vitamins and minerals, and lack negative qualities like heavy metals that are in fish) than loading up on protein to suppress appetite.
 

 

I hope you like Okara.  Filling up on fiber is definitely the best way.

Avoiding white and even brown rice is a good call.  But try to remember that black rice is enormously different, from a nutritional perspective- wild rice even more so.

 

What do you think a reasonable number of protein grams per day are for a 90 kg man?

 

I don't think I've ever seen black rice here. I'm making a trip to Boston next month and look forward to trying some things I haven't been able to get here, like that, and tempeh.

 

doug

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#50 Old 02-18-2014, 05:53 AM
 
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What do you think a reasonable number of protein grams per day are for a 90 kg man?

 

I don't think I've ever seen black rice here. I'm making a trip to Boston next month and look forward to trying some things I haven't been able to get here, like that, and tempeh.

 

doug

 

It depends in a large part upon your activity level.  People who are very active need more protein (particularly if body building).  

 

If your activity level is average, you only need about 56 grams according to RDI (sorry, I typed 65 before, my mistake).  Protein in excess of that, particularly if you aren't eating enough carbs (if your body is still hungry), will be metabolized into glucose for energy, and the process of protein metabolism for energy is relatively hard on the body (which has implications for longevity and long term organ health, particularly liver and often kidneys too).

 

So, you need 56 grams.  Aside from that, it's better to eat more carbs for energy rather than to eat protein and force your body to break it down.  It's easy to get 56 grams from a mix of veggies and grains- as long as you avoid too much white(or brown) rice, and any processed sugary/oily/fried foods, it's hard not to get enough protein

 

Complex carbs, which are mixed in with a lot of fiber to slow down absorption and prevent the spikes and dips in blood sugar, are the best energy source, which is easiest on your body.

 

Vegetables are all pretty well balanced in terms of fiber, carbs, protein, and necessary vitamins and minerals. :)

 

Animal products contain far too much protein and fat, which are both not ideal energy sources (along with other stuff, like heavy metals, and carcinogens from cooking).

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#51 Old 02-18-2014, 05:56 AM
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It depends in a large part upon your activity level.  People who are very active need more protein (particularly if body building).  

 

If your activity level is average, you only need about 56 grams according to RDI (sorry, I typed 65 before, my mistake).  Protein in excess of that, particularly if you aren't eating enough carbs (if your body is still hungry), will be metabolized into glucose for energy, and the process of protein metabolism for energy is relatively hard on the body (which has implications for longevity and long term organ health, particularly liver and often kidneys too).

 

So, you need 56 grams.  Aside from that, it's better to eat more carbs for energy rather than to eat protein and force your body to break it down.  It's easy to get 56 grams from a mix of veggies and grains- as long as you avoid too much white(or brown) rice, and any processed sugary/oily/fried foods, it's hard not to get enough protein

 

Complex carbs, which are mixed in with a lot of fiber to slow down absorption and prevent the spikes and dips in blood sugar, are the best energy source, which is easiest on your body.

 

Vegetables are all pretty well balanced in terms of fiber, carbs, protein, and necessary vitamins and minerals. :)

 

Animal products contain far too much protein and fat, which are both not ideal energy sources (along with other stuff, like heavy metals, and carcinogens from cooking).

 

I don't think I've been eating as much as 56 g of protein. I did a quick estimate a few times, and it seemed I was lucky if I hit 40 g a day.

 

Thanks,

 

doug

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#52 Old 02-18-2014, 06:00 AM
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why are we worrying so much about protein??

 

Anyway, Doug, it sounds to me like you're just trying to find a way to keep reducing your calories. You can't starve yourself forever.

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#53 Old 02-18-2014, 06:17 AM
 
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Updated my last post.  The difference between 56 and 65.  Mixed it up in my head.  I'm blaming it on being tired. :)  I thought something was wrong with those numbers.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandiculationco View Post
 

Sweet potato and white (or brown) rice are mostly starch.  In order to get 56 grams of protein a day, you have to eat almost 2,600 calories of these things.

 

With black rice?  In order to get 56 grams of protein (the daily requirement), you need to eat about 1,700 calories of it.  Right on the money (for a reasonable weight loss calorie goal).

 

Wild rice is even better (you only need about 1300 calories to get 56 grams of protein).  But wild rice can be harder to find.

 

Okara is about the same as wild rice, but it will fill you up fast because it's really high in fiber (100 grams is only about 80 calories, so the bulk will fill you fast).

 

As you can see, black rice is a pretty good weight loss food (far better than white rice, which is a very efficient weight gain food).

 

Black rice mainly comes from China, and I'm sure you could find it in Japan; I'm just not sure exactly where.

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#54 Old 02-18-2014, 06:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douglerner View Post
 

 

I don't think I've been eating as much as 56 g of protein. I did a quick estimate a few times, and it seemed I was lucky if I hit 40 g a day.

 

Thanks,

 

doug

 

I see, you're definitely eating too much white/brown rice, oil, or sugar then.

 

If you switch to Okara as a filling staple (with or without half rice), that should solve your problem pretty easily- even if you eat half white rice and half Okara; the half Okara should get you in the right place protein wise and reduce the calories enough to set you back on track.

 

With veggies, as long as you fill yourself up on them, you almost have to be getting enough protein (so they're definitely not the weak link here).

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#55 Old 02-18-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
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I don't agree.  I think it's pretty normal to be hungry a few minutes after eating a bowl of white rice.  It's too quickly and easily digested, and so contains very little fiber or anything else to keep a person satisfied for hours.
Umm....that isn't normal whatsoever as after a few minutes after eating your body has digested little if any of the food. But what is true, and is perhaps what the OP has in mind, is that in individuals with a poor insulin response can have a spike in insulin after eating high glycemic foods which can cause a subsequent drop in blood sugar which could make one feel hungry....or at the very least a bit uncomfortable. Such a drop in blood sugar would occur 1~2 hours after eating the food though as digestion does not occur in "a few minutes".

But people usually don't eat rice by itself, which is my point here, you need to look at the overall glycemic load of a meal. Adding certain foods, for example nuts and seeds, will lower the over all glycemic load of the meal. Normally in a low-fat diet you'd consume a lot of legumes which have a low glycemic index and can actually reduce hunger for many hours after eating them but OP has digestive problems that apparently make legumes difficult to eat. As a result, if he has blood sugar problems, he may be best served by inducing some fatty whole plant foods to his menu to help maintain his blood sugar. High protein foods wouldn't have the same effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandiculationco View Post

The internet is probably his best bet.  I'm glad he came here for a second opinion.
The internet is filled with all sorts of bogus information but I think he would be better served by speaking to people that have started a plant based diet after having heart disease, etc. I don't think advice from younger people that were never obese, don't have heart disease, don't have digestive problem etc.......is all that useful.

White rice is not good weight gaining food as its fairly hard to overeat white rice, the main issue with white rice is that its not nutritious, is low in fiber and has a high glycemic index. But traditionally one would eat white rice with sauteed vegetables, legumes, etc.
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#56 Old 02-18-2014, 12:37 PM
 
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Umm....that isn't normal whatsoever as after a few minutes after eating your body has digested little if any of the food. But what is true, and is perhaps what the OP has in mind, is that in individuals with a poor insulin response can have a spike in insulin after eating high glycemic foods which can cause a subsequent drop in blood sugar which could make one feel hungry....or at the very least a bit uncomfortable. Such a drop in blood sugar would occur 1~2 hours after eating the food though as digestion does not occur in "a few minutes".
 

 

I've eaten white rice on its own, and felt satisfied for a few minutes, pretty hungry again after half an hour.

 

A lot of hunger is psychological, 'subconscious'; when you feel glucose hitting your blood, it can stave off hunger a bit.  Then it starts to level off or drop and perhaps you realize it's not going to last.  It's weird what things can eliminate or stimulate hunger.

 

To the OP: you can also get full from mime food.  Really.

 

 

 

Quote:
But people usually don't eat rice by itself, which is my point here, you need to look at the overall glycemic load of a meal. Adding certain foods, for example nuts and seeds, will lower the over all glycemic load of the meal. Normally in a low-fat diet you'd consume a lot of legumes which have a low glycemic index and can actually reduce hunger for many hours after eating them but OP has digestive problems that apparently make legumes difficult to eat. As a result, if he has blood sugar problems, he may be best served by inducing some fatty whole plant foods to his menu to help maintain his blood sugar. High protein foods wouldn't have the same effect.

 

 

That's a good point.  Based on what he said, though, it sounds like he eats a lot of white rice, or a lot of fat.  If he's gaining weight by only consuming 40 grams of protein a day, that implies most of his diet is white rice with only a garnish of vegetables, or a lot of oil.

 

More whole, non-rice plant foods are going to be key, no matter what they are.

 

 

Quote:
White rice is not good weight gaining food as its fairly hard to overeat white rice, the main issue with white rice is that its not nutritious, is low in fiber and has a high glycemic index. But traditionally one would eat white rice with sauteed vegetables, legumes, etc.

 

I can gain weight FAST on white rice.  If that's almost all I'm eating, I'll eat at least 3,000 calories of it a day. (several full rice cookers worth)

 

Eat.  Hungry.  Eat more.  Hungry.  Eat more...

 

I'll eat five or so really big bowls of it.  Every 2-3 hours.

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#57 Old 02-18-2014, 02:37 PM
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Hey Doug! Do you do soups? i recommend soup every day!

Can you get, or eat, barley? That's one of my favorites, and I find it easy to digest--unlike too much okara!

I got a soymilk maker and was stoked on the cheapness and goodness of the milk and the additional okara.

It's great stuff to cook so many things with, and had a great texture and taste--but I found out how much fiber was too much fiber pretty fast! My poop never quit and looked like soaked cardboard. I don't recommend it if you have digestion troubles. I cut back and am now fine.


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#58 Old 02-18-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandiculationco View Post

 

I can gain weight FAST on white rice.  If that's almost all I'm eating, I'll eat at least 3,000 calories of it a day. (several full rice cookers worth)

 

Eat.  Hungry.  Eat more.  Hungry.  Eat more...

 

I'll eat five or so really big bowls of it.  Every 2-3 hours.

 

Yes, you can easily gain weight fast from eating rice. And things made from rice, like senbei. They are high calorie, so yes, of course you can gain weight from eating rice.

 

I don't use oils on my diet. It's clear I was eating too much rice. Too many calories means weight gain. That's really all there is to it.

 

You can gain weight from eating anything that is too high in calories. The question for me is finding foods that satisfy and don't make me hungrier afterwards, like rice obviously does.

 

doug

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#59 Old 02-18-2014, 04:52 PM
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I sometimes have miso soup.

 

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#60 Old 02-18-2014, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douglerner View Post
 

I sometimes have miso soup.

 

doug

How about things like vegetable barley?

 

I found how to make a killer hot/sour soup that I'm completely hooked on!

 

I find soup very filling. In fact I made a kinda wedding soup with okara bulgar balls.


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