Living Among Meat Eaters at Thanksgiving - Carol J. Adams - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 11-16-2012, 02:56 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/living-among-meat-eaters-at-thanksgiving/#



This is some great advice for anyone struggling with omni family members over the holidays.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 11-17-2012, 11:28 AM
Newbie
 
Faceless Taste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
I liked this article, thanks. I especially liked the way it was put into perspective in the beginning on how we feel about the holiday, and that it's saddening for veg*ns to "celebrate" with a corpse at the table..

I've been struggling with my family on this. My bf and I are veg*ns and we got my mom, her husband (for the most part), and my youngest brother on board. My dad's wife is also a veteran vegetarian. My parents are divorced & my dad had made it a tradition to have Thxgvg at his home every year, and last year was the first veg*n Thxgvg for us.

Well, it wasn't very pleasant last year.. My dad's wife bought him a duck (which is beyond me), and helped him prepare his dead turkey. Last year my dad was cracking jokes saying pretty much everything from the article, from 'why don't you have the wishbone' to 'oh you can cheat one holiday'. I just brushed it off for the most part but it was still annoying. My bf and I were about 6mos in at that time, and since then I have become vegan and he is getting close to being vegan.

Additionally, we have been through a lot this past month, ever since before Halloween (we never got to make those awesome zombie cookies because of this story). A week before Halloween, our diddle developed Hepatic Lipidosis, which is a type of liver disease which spirals downward and ends with death if not treated right away. Well, our diddle was in & out of the pet hospital that entire week, she had multiple procedures done to test for things like cancer (which was ruled out), and she now has a feeding tube in her throat and we have to feed her every 3-6hrs. Long story short, our cat is our baby. She has a sister at home and we have been so worried for her and have been through a tremendous roller coaster with her diagnosis and recovery. She finally seems to be stabilizing and eating on her own a little bit (we still have to tube feed), but overall we are expecting a full recovery for her, thank goodness.

So, the point of that story was, we love and respect animals, our own animals are our babies, and we want to be at peace on Thanksgiving, and feel grateful about her life and spend the holiday at home with our diddle to celebrate her recovery, and we don't want to go to his house and be around dead turkeys. We wouldn't mind if they came over here instead, but they want to bring their dead turkey and we aren't ok with that.

My dad made a comment a few months ago, on planning a cabin vacation this winter (which we are now not doing together for some reasons), and he said "we want to have bacon in the morning on our trip, lots of bacon and sausage filling the air in the cabin so we can enjoy our stay, and we don't want you vegetarians (he was referring to my bf and I m even though his wife is vegetarian) to give us crap about moral stuff on our vacation."

From then, we decided to have a vegetarian Thxgvg with my mom, instead. Well, now my dad is pissed, and he cannot comprehend the fact that we don't want to be in the presence of dead animals on a holiday where we want peace, because we 'put up with it fine last year, and had some vegetarian dishes.'

We want to be with our diddle, and we want peace in our home, with no corpses... How do I explain that to him so he will actually understand? (Sorry for the novel, btw!)
Faceless Taste is offline  
#3 Old 11-18-2012, 08:47 AM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Taste View Post

I liked this article, thanks. I especially liked the way it was put into perspective in the beginning on how we feel about the holiday, and that it's saddening for veg*ns to "celebrate" with a corpse at the table..
I've been struggling with my family on this. My bf and I are veg*ns and we got my mom, her husband (for the most part), and my youngest brother on board. My dad's wife is also a veteran vegetarian. My parents are divorced & my dad had made it a tradition to have Thxgvg at his home every year, and last year was the first veg*n Thxgvg for us.
Well, it wasn't very pleasant last year.. My dad's wife bought him a duck (which is beyond me), and helped him prepare his dead turkey. Last year my dad was cracking jokes saying pretty much everything from the article, from 'why don't you have the wishbone' to 'oh you can cheat one holiday'. I just brushed it off for the most part but it was still annoying. My bf and I were about 6mos in at that time, and since then I have become vegan and he is getting close to being vegan.
Additionally, we have been through a lot this past month, ever since before Halloween (we never got to make those awesome zombie cookies because of this story). A week before Halloween, our diddle developed Hepatic Lipidosis, which is a type of liver disease which spirals downward and ends with death if not treated right away. Well, our diddle was in & out of the pet hospital that entire week, she had multiple procedures done to test for things like cancer (which was ruled out), and she now has a feeding tube in her throat and we have to feed her every 3-6hrs. Long story short, our cat is our baby. She has a sister at home and we have been so worried for her and have been through a tremendous roller coaster with her diagnosis and recovery. She finally seems to be stabilizing and eating on her own a little bit (we still have to tube feed), but overall we are expecting a full recovery for her, thank goodness.
So, the point of that story was, we love and respect animals, our own animals are our babies, and we want to be at peace on Thanksgiving, and feel grateful about her life and spend the holiday at home with our diddle to celebrate her recovery, and we don't want to go to his house and be around dead turkeys. We wouldn't mind if they came over here instead, but they want to bring their dead turkey and we aren't ok with that.
My dad made a comment a few months ago, on planning a cabin vacation this winter (which we are now not doing together for some reasons), and he said "we want to have bacon in the morning on our trip, lots of bacon and sausage filling the air in the cabin so we can enjoy our stay, and we don't want you vegetarians (he was referring to my bf and I m even though his wife is vegetarian) to give us crap about moral stuff on our vacation."
From then, we decided to have a vegetarian Thxgvg with my mom, instead. Well, now my dad is pissed, and he cannot comprehend the fact that we don't want to be in the presence of dead animals on a holiday where we want peace, because we 'put up with it fine last year, and had some vegetarian dishes.'
We want to be with our diddle, and we want peace in our home, with no corpses... How do I explain that to him so he will actually understand? (Sorry for the novel, btw!)

I think you explained it here very well, I'm sorry to hear about your cat but glad she's recovering!

It may be hard for your dad to understand why you don't want to be around meat on the holidays, but I think the real issue is that he wants to spend time with you and is miffed you're not having Thanksgiving with him because of the meat. Maybe you could have veg Thanksgiving with your mom but then also visit with him separately when there isn't turkey there just so he doesn't feel left out?

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 11-18-2012, 10:13 AM
Zelda Freak
 
Jennifer C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Rainy Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,761

That article points out that, "A Thanksgiving meal is not the time to explain or defend your diet." I really agree with that. BUT if you accept this regarding a vegan or vegetarian diet, than you also, it would seem, need to accept this about a meat diet. I.e. vegetarians and meat eaters alike should not need to defend their diet choices. 

 

  • It sounds like you don't want to be with your dad on Thanksgiving because he eats meat and is not willing to acclimate to your diet. OR / AND because he can't accept your diet choices and because he's harsh about your diet choices. 
  • It sounds like your dad thinks making fun of, or making light of your plant-based diet is more important than being with you at a meal. But maybe he doesn't know how much it bothers you. 

 

If you guys can't work it out, you're both making food more important than people. 

 

Could you talk to your dad and say that you think people matter more than food choices or explain to him that when he makes angry comments about your diet that it really bothers you. 

 

You say, "He cannot comprehend the fact that we don't want to be in the presence of dead animals on a holiday where we want peace, because we 'put up with it fine last year, and had some vegetarian dishes." Along the same lines though, it also sounds like you can't comprehend his diet wishes for the holiday.

 

I get that it sucks to be around turkey when you're against eating it and are dedicated to AR, but it's also might be sad for your dad that now that you've changed your diet, and to him, maybe it looks like sticking to that diet is more important than time with him. 

 

He wants meat. You don't. But maybe there's some middle ground. Like everyone gets food they're comfortable with AND no one makes fun of or is mean about the other person's choices. Or you have two meals - one vegan, one 1/2 and 1/2 - everyone attends and tries to accept that people are different. 


~ Jennifer
 
* Find VeggieBoards:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 +
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

* Find me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jennifer C is offline  
#5 Old 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM
Newbie
 
Faceless Taste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
Thanks for the suggestions.. I'm trying to contemplate on how to delicately approach the subject of future dinners.. For this Thanksgiving, I am thinking about having dessert altogether, after dinner. I want to spend time with my family, but right now since this is still so new for me and my feelings are so emotionally strong on animal welfare, and all I feel is anger, disgust, despise, whenever I think about the idea of enjoying their company while they're ripping apart an animal who died such a... Ugh well you guys know.. Does this change at all, down the road years later, are you able to be at peace with yourself AND others? How do you not let something that you feel so strongly about, get in the way of those closest to you?
Faceless Taste is offline  
#6 Old 11-19-2012, 03:51 PM
Zelda Freak
 
Jennifer C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Rainy Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Taste View Post

How do you not let something that you feel so strongly about, get in the way of those closest to you?

 

I remind myself that meat eaters are not bad people just people with different priorities. For 18 years of my life I haven't eaten meat, yet every single one of my close family members (siblings, aunt and uncle) has. It's not ideal, but it's also not the worst thing ever that could happen. My family members could be really mean, or lie or gamble or hit their kids and so on. They don't. They eat meat and I while I may disagree with that diet, it doesn't make them bad or not worth my time or make me better than them. It makes my priorities different. 

 

I also remind myself that different people have different priorities they hold dear, many of them worthwhile. My aunt for example, she eats meat and we've had a few arguments about me not eating dairy or eggs lately, but she does have some very good habits that I don't. She takes in stray animals, gets them to the vet, pays to have them spayed and vaccinated, cares for them, then tries to find them good homes. I don't do that ever. I don't want pets around at all because it's a hassle. So, really though she eats meat, she has some AR qualities I lack. 

 

I'm really, really compassionate about green issues - not using toxic cleaners, buying organic, etc. A good friend of mine drive me nuts sometimes because he doesn't give a flying frog about that stuff, but he does volunteer with homeless kids and helps with other charities. 

 

 

It's not fun to watch people eat meat or never do other things I like to do, like buy Fair Trade or organic, or volunteer at clean-ups and stuff, but that in no way means they're not maybe doing something else worthwhile that I'm not doing. It's very easy to get stuck on your own priorities and think they matter more than any others, and in a way it's good, because you should be passionate, but you can't let your own favorite causes get you down about everyone who has different ideas. If you do, you'll end up feeling upset often I think.


~ Jennifer
 
* Find VeggieBoards:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 +
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

* Find me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jennifer C is offline  
#7 Old 11-19-2012, 04:13 PM
Newbie
 
Faceless Taste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
You're right, there are many things I find noble about my dad. He's in the medical field, and one day bought his patient a qn bed with rails so she could sleep with her husband in the same bed for their 50th anniversary - out of his own pocket. Your post was very helpful, in the sense that you can't get everyone to agree with you on the same page in the same way you feel, but you still need to embrace the good in others so your differences don't bring your relationship down. Thank you. I'm still feeling riled up, but with more insight and hope to gain a more whole perspective in the future. So happy to have such great support on here!
Jennifer C likes this.
Faceless Taste is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off