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#61 Old 10-03-2012, 05:33 AM
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Sometimes I feel guilty. I lot animals but for example one of my roommates has a cat and I can't stand the cat to be on my room. I don"t want to have hair or the cat to go on my bed. 

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#62 Old 10-03-2012, 07:38 AM
 
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Really? Except for the part where they aren't contributing to the suffering of those animals I guess... dizzy2.gif
Personally I'm always happy to see people stop eating animal products for any reason, it still helps. Considering we're like 2% of the population and most people are total carnists it's pretty silly to attack people who aren't contributing to the meat/dairy/egg industry and could be potential allies. The animals don't care what your reasons are, they just don't want to suffer and die.
If you scare people away from a plant based diet because you don't think they're doing it for the right reasons that's just shooting yourself in the foot. Right now US meat consumption is declining and it's not because a bunch of people are becoming hardcore vegans, it's because a lot of omnis are starting to incorporate more vegetarian meals into their diets. I'd love to take an all or nothing approach and I understand it's frustrating when people don't seem to care about animal cruelty, but in the end billions of animals are being saved from misery on factory farms and billions more could be saved if this trend continues. I will always advocate for veganism for ethical reasons, but if someone chooses to eat a plant based diet for health or environmental reasons that's still doing a lot of good whether they have compassion or not.
I think we'd all be better off working together and focusing on educating people about AR issues and how to go vegan. Fighting amongst ourselves doesn't help any animals.

Thanks for this post. I agree 100%  It was all I have been trying to say on this board also.No matter how people get to become Vegan let's just get them there..connect with them and support. It is a win for the animals, environment and health and that's a great thing.

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#63 Old 10-03-2012, 08:02 AM
 
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If you go veg for health, you have no motivation to give up leather, silk and wool, etc.  The only reason to go VEGAN, is an ethical one.

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#64 Old 10-03-2012, 08:10 AM
 
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Sometimes I feel guilty. I lot animals but for example one of my roommates has a cat and I can't stand the cat to be on my room. I don"t want to have hair or the cat to go on my bed. 

I won't have a cat in my house.  I hate cat hair, cat boxes and furniture with claw marks.  I don't feel guilty.  I'm nice to other people's cats.  tongue3.gif

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#65 Old 10-03-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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If you go veg for health, you have no motivation to give up leather, silk and wool, etc.  The only reason to go VEGAN, is an ethical one.

agreed.

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#66 Old 10-03-2012, 05:29 PM
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Okay well maybe it's just me, but I think the more vegans the better, no matter what their reasoning. To me the more people not eating animals is always a good thing, regardless of their reasons for it. The more the merrier so to speak. 

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#67 Old 10-03-2012, 06:34 PM
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I won't have a cat in my house.  I hate cat hair, cat boxes and furniture with claw marks.  I don't feel guilty.  I'm nice to other people's cats.  tongue3.gif

ok thanks. Indeed, I love the animals of the others but I couldn't have a cat at home while I love them. am I weird?

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#68 Old 10-04-2012, 05:12 AM
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Yes, giving up eating animal products solely for health reasons is a good thing for the animals. No, it does not give an incentive to give up leather and other non dietary products. No, it is not ethically admirable (especially when coupled with statements like "**** the animals". There is no contradiction between any of these statements, so I don't see what people think they're disagreeing about (except maybe the meaning of "vegan"). 

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#69 Old 10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
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But they are still people who aren't eating animals. It's still one more person on the planet who isn't eating meat, whether it be for the animals or for health reasons. How can none of you see that it's a good thing? Sure, in a perfect world I would prefer it if all vegetarians and vegans were so because of ethical reasons, but heaps of people do this for their health, and I see that as no reason to shun them. That woman who said "**** the animals" is different, she seems like a jerk. All the others though, they are still more people on the planet not eating meat, not eating animal products, so who are we to judge them? In the end it's still more people doing the thing we believe in, just for a different reason. I seriously can't believe how judgmental and pretentious everyone in this thread is being. 

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#70 Old 10-04-2012, 05:07 PM
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Okay well maybe it's just me, but I think the more vegans the better, no matter what their reasoning. To me the more people not eating animals is always a good thing, regardless of their reasons for it. The more the merrier so to speak. 

I agree with this. smiley.gif

I think it's a matter of definitions though, technically veganism is about animal exploitation and encompasses more than just diet. Someone who doesn't eat any animal products but buys fur coats and animal tested mascara wouldn't be considered vegan for instance. There also isn't a health reason to avoid eating things like honey or gelatin, or to cheat once in awhile, so while we're similar in our diets there are some major differences.

I don't think anyone should be shunned and I think it's awesome when people don't eat animal products, I just think we need a new term for people who eat a vegan diet but don't follow a vegan lifestyle so things are more clear. I like the term plant based diet, or maybe health vegan or strict vegetarian.

But yeah, again I think we should all just get along. I can still talk about delicious recipes with the health people, and it always makes me happy to know one less person is buying meat, dairy, eggs, etc. I also think 'health vegans' are a lot more open to hearing about the ethical issues since they have no reason to be defensive when they aren't eating the stuff anyway.
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#71 Old 10-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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Wow. So many accepting that an out of context line from a comedian must be the whole truth! I hope that's not how you vote!

Robin is a vegan, does love animals, and I bet you could take a one liner from almost anyone to disparage them in any way you want.

 

I know two people who started plant based diets for health reasons. They have since embraced veganism. You don't have to "love" animals to respect their right to their lives, on their own terms. Once you can truly understand eating without using animals, it really sets in how the average diet is so bizarre and cruel. 


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#72 Old 10-04-2012, 05:54 PM
 
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I agree with this. smiley.gif
I think it's a matter of definitions though, technically veganism is about animal exploitation and encompasses more than just diet. Someone who doesn't eat any animal products but buys fur coats and animal tested mascara wouldn't be considered vegan for instance. There also isn't a health reason to avoid eating things like honey or gelatin, or to cheat once in awhile, so while we're similar in our diets there are some major differences.
I don't think anyone should be shunned and I think it's awesome when people don't eat animal products, I just think we need a new term for people who eat a vegan diet but don't follow a vegan lifestyle so things are more clear. I like the term plant based diet, or maybe health vegan or strict vegetarian.
But yeah, again I think we should all just get along. I can still talk about delicious recipes with the health people, and it always makes me happy to know one less person is buying meat, dairy, eggs, etc. I also think 'health vegans' are a lot more open to hearing about the ethical issues since they have no reason to be defensive when they aren't eating the stuff anyway.

 

I agree. I just consider myself to have as much in common on an ethical level as a meat eater. I wouldn't be like OMGZZZ VEGAN!!! (I get really excited when I meet "my definition" of a real vegan.)
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#73 Old 10-04-2012, 06:27 PM
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Even if there is someone who doesn't eat meat, dairy, animal products etc but still wears leather and wool then that's still a better thing to me than someone who eats meat, seafood as well as wears wool, leather etc etc. At least they are doing one more thing in our favour. 

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#74 Old 10-04-2012, 08:21 PM
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 (I get really excited when I meet "my definition" of a real vegan.)

There already is a definition of a real vegan. It has already been coined, so there is no "my definition" or room to discuss for health wise or environmental wise people.

 

Me too though. Hasn't happened yet, but I know that when I do find someone who KNOWS what veganism is really about, I might go a little hyper crazy happy. *_o surprised.gif


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#75 Old 10-04-2012, 09:52 PM
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Yes, giving up eating animal products solely for health reasons is a good thing for the animals. No, it does not give an incentive to give up leather and other non dietary products. No, it is not ethically admirable (especially when coupled with statements like "**** the animals". There is no contradiction between any of these statements, so I don't see what people think they're disagreeing about (except maybe the meaning of "vegan"). 

 

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But they are still people who aren't eating animals. It's still one more person on the planet who isn't eating meat, whether it be for the animals or for health reasons. How can none of you see that it's a good thing? Sure, in a perfect world I would prefer it if all vegetarians and vegans were so because of ethical reasons, but heaps of people do this for their health, and I see that as no reason to shun them. That woman who said "**** the animals" is different, she seems like a jerk. All the others though, they are still more people on the planet not eating meat, not eating animal products, so who are we to judge them? In the end it's still more people doing the thing we believe in, just for a different reason. I seriously can't believe how judgmental and pretentious everyone in this thread is being.

 

No one said it isn't a good thing and some of us have explicitly said it IS a good thing, so I don't know why you think no one can see that.

 

Saying it is not ethically admirable to go vegan solely for health reasons was not meant to be a judgmental statement... I think it is ethically neutral. Something can be a good thing without being motivated by morals (i.e. because it has a good result).

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Wow. So many accepting that an out of context line from a comedian must be the whole truth! I hope that's not how you vote!

Robin is a vegan, does love animals, and I bet you could take a one liner from almost anyone to disparage them in any way you want.

 

Fair enough. I think the discussion was more using her statement as an example than actually being about her though.

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#76 Old 10-04-2012, 11:17 PM
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smiley.gif
Although I think it is good if more people give up animal stuff.....for one thing the more people who want animal free foods, the more food companies will start to cater for animal free diets, which in turn makes it easier for people to give up animal stuff.

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#77 Old 10-05-2012, 03:11 AM
 
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There already is a definition of a real vegan. It has already been coined, so there is no "my definition" or room to discuss for health wise or environmental wise people.

 

Me too though. Hasn't happened yet, but I know that when I do find someone who KNOWS what veganism is really about, I might go a little hyper crazy happy. *_o surprised.gif

Lol thts why I put "quotes". I know.

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#78 Old 10-05-2012, 05:28 AM
 
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I don't think people who eat a plant-based-diet for health reasons really help animals.

 

I don't think any individual eating less meat does much for stopping humans from exploiting animals, even if animal product sales decrease and individual lives of animals are spared (I cede that this is a good thing), we're still perpetuating the notion that it's okay to exploit future animals for our purposes. I don't think those attitudes would stop us from breeding as many animals as we want. I also think that the animal agriculture industry is cunning and I would not underestimate them so far to say that if chicken nugget sales decrease they'll sell fewer chickens. I think the result of that might be chicken protein in our shampoo and crazy stuff like that. o_o

 

ETA: However, I don't think it's a bad thing to start a plant-based-diet for health reasons. I think for many people, regarding animal rights, they have a wall up. They think it's not healthy, not possible, that it's chasing rainbows. Anything that tears that wall down is a good thing, including wanting to lower your cholesterol. I think most people, if they didn't have that wall up, they'd be a lot more open to animal rights issues.


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#79 Old 10-05-2012, 08:12 AM
 
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I agree, im totally open to more things now that im vegan. I did it because of health reasons and want to live a more fulfilling life. It doesn't matter how I got to where I am today. Does it make me less of a person because the reason I started is for different reasons than some of you? The point is I am now VEGAN. Call it whatever you want. I don't use animal products or meat. Will I be an animal rights activist, probably not, but am I still part of the same cause, that's for you to decide.
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#80 Old 10-05-2012, 09:15 AM
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 The point is I am now VEGAN.

Then you "now" follow the philosophy determined by the British Vegan society, the first vegan society, "the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals,"

 

I presume you don't buy animal testing cosmetics or with animal ingredients, nor wear animal skins, or go to places that support animal exploitation (zoos, circuses, seaworld, etc)?


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#81 Old 10-05-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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to answer your question, I never go to zoos or circuses anyways, I don't wear cosmetics because I am a man, so I have been buying all natural products, the one thing you DO have me on tho is the fact that I am wearing a wool blend suit...i know I know... Lol
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#82 Old 10-05-2012, 10:41 AM
 
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Correction: 65% polyester 35% rayon lol just checked the tag lol
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#83 Old 10-05-2012, 11:13 AM
 
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Okay, all I can think is, "Wow! You're wearing a suit?"

 

Good for you for wearing a (vegan) suit! I'm wearing (vegan) pajamas. grin.gif


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#84 Old 10-05-2012, 11:27 AM
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to answer your question, I never go to zoos or circuses anyways, I don't wear cosmetics because I am a man, so I have been buying all natural products, the one thing you DO have me on tho is the fact that I am wearing a wool blend suit...i know I know... Lol

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Correction: 65% polyester 35% rayon lol just checked the tag lol

That's awesome! You sound pretty vegan to me. thumbsup.gif

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#85 Old 10-05-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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Okay, all I can think is, "Wow! You're wearing a suit?"

Good for you for wearing a (vegan) suit! I'm wearing (vegan) pajamas. grin.gif
have to every day....wish I could be wearing vegan pajamas as we speak, but im sure that would be frowned upon lol
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#86 Old 10-05-2012, 12:17 PM
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I don't love all animals but I don't see any reason to harm them if I can help it. One of the reasons I went vegetarian was because I thought the idea of eating animals was disgusting. My family had a meat and dairy farm in Ireland and I remembered the animals clearly and the thought of them sweating, having skin infections, having sex etc... and then being killed and people eating their flesh made me want to vomit. I had to move a slug out of my garden the other day and I was nearly being sick.blush.gif

 

As other people have said on here I know lots of omni people that consider themselves "animal lovers" but still eat meat and dairy and use cruelly tested animal products.

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#87 Old 10-16-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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The fact you that live your life where non-human animals do not deserve to suffer and be exploited for food, clothing, entertainment and etc.. is enough!! Your compassionate lifestyle is activism on the behalf of animals in!! No omnivore or other vegans can judge or refute your heart towards living beings!! 

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#88 Old 10-16-2012, 06:53 PM
 
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You're not alone. I became vegan more so for health reasons than for animal rights. But since going vegan, I have learned a lot more about the treatment of farm animals, as well as the horrors of the dairy and meat industries and marketing schemes. I have extended the compassion I have for other living things than just humans, and, rather recently, I have even become a "cat lover" overnight. All of that said, though, sometimes I am insecure to meet other vegans because I fear that I will be judged for not being as big of an animal lover as they are, or as much of an animal rights activist.

 

We all have our own stories about how we came to veg*nism. I think what matters most is that we all got here somehow, and that we are building a community to support one another. And that, perhaps, is the most compassionate way to look at this. We must be good to ourselves, too.

Aligraham, The fact you that live your life where non-human animals do not deserve to suffer and be exploited for food, clothing, entertainment and etc.. is enough!! Your compassionate lifestyle is activism on the behalf of animals in!! No omnivore or other vegans can judge or refute your heart towards living beings!! 

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#89 Old 10-17-2012, 12:57 AM
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Your compassionate lifestyle is activism on the behalf of animals in!!

 

I consider a consumer boycott of animal products a very weak level of activism.  It's important and the minimum level of animal activism, but in terms of ending animal exploitation, the mere boycott without more direct activism and speaking out, won't mean that much.  It's like not owning slaves, or not putting Jews onto cattle cars.  It's not a powerful form of activism really, its just not participating in the evil.


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#90 Old 10-17-2012, 01:41 AM
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I consider a consumer boycott of animal products a very weak level of activism.  It's important and the minimum level of animal activism, but in terms of ending animal exploitation, the mere boycott without more direct activism and speaking out, won't mean that much.  It's like not owning slaves, or not putting Jews onto cattle cars.  It's not a powerful form of activism really, its just not participating in the evil.


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