Happy Herbivore Is Unhappy Vegan - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-11-2011, 05:46 PM
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http://www.happyherbivore.com/2011/1...vegan-anymore/

What does everyone make of this? Personally, it seems like this girl was far too sensitive. Of course vegans are going to point out if you do something unvegan after you've built a career on being vegan. No one likes a hypocrite! But instead of holding her hands up and admitting making a mistake, she's thrown her toys out the pram and declared "i'm not vegan anymore". I hate seeing vegans who have a following renouncing veganism and bad mouthing the cause.

But hey, maybe I'm the sensitive one here.

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#2 Old 10-11-2011, 05:57 PM
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I agree with both sides of this argument. I can see where both are coming from. I've experienced what she is talking about and really did not find it productive in any way at all. But, like you said I wasn't so sensitive about it. If you're vegan then you're doing it for reasons that somebody being rude or a jerk will not dissuade. That would be like saying you're of a certain faith or religion and then somebody in that religion was rude to you and then you decided "Well, this is a horrible faith. I'm done with it. Not only that I'm gonna go bash it on my blog." I understand her frustration...but, come on. Man up. lol
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#3 Old 10-11-2011, 06:03 PM
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I think that's part of the problem with being a "public vegan", especially on the Internet, people are likely to be jerks. A conversation in person about the veganness of unsourced sugar is usually way more civil than one on the internet.

I don't *think* she's given up living cruelty-free (she said she's still eating a plant-based diet), just the label "vegan", which is fair.

I always wonder about people who say they "love" animals, but continue to eat meat. If that's your idea of love, I question what sort of twisted world view you must have.

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#4 Old 10-11-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destroythenight View Post

http://www.happyherbivore.com/2011/1...vegan-anymore/

What does everyone make of this? Personally, it seems like this girl was far too sensitive. Of course vegans are going to point out if you do something unvegan after you've built a career on being vegan. No one likes a hypocrite! But instead of holding her hands up and admitting making a mistake, she's thrown her toys out the pram and declared "i'm not vegan anymore". I hate seeing vegans who have a following renouncing veganism and bad mouthing the cause.

But hey, maybe I'm the sensitive one here.

I agree, this struck me as a very high school reaction.

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#5 Old 10-11-2011, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by luxdancer View Post

I think that's part of the problem with being a "public vegan", especially on the Internet, people are likely to be jerks. A conversation in person about the veganness of unsourced sugar is usually way more civil than one on the internet.

I don't *think* she's given up living cruelty-free (she said she's still eating a plant-based diet), just the label "vegan", which is fair.

On further observation it looks like she eats honey too, so I have a better understanding of why she's dropping the label now. Makes sense.

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#6 Old 10-11-2011, 07:10 PM
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I don't think she's being over sensitive at all. Things got really crazy on her FB page the other day and it got really ugly with the nasty comments and attacks.
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#7 Old 10-11-2011, 07:16 PM
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I scanned her post. Agreed that being public about being vegan can change everything. I'm the only vegan I know. The idea that all vegans get along or there is this vegan "community" is something I don't agree with. At least not from my view.
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#8 Old 10-11-2011, 07:26 PM
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I agree with her post. I eat a plant based diet, don't use animal products, but there's still all those "out of reach variables" you can not really do much about. Like animals killed trying to eat your organic plant produce on farms. Our CO2 emissions. Deforestation and hydro power stations. Humans will always directly affect animals, unless we go back to living in caves and eat crops in which we let wildlife eat from, which will then reduce our food stores and lead to depopulation, etc...

I know I can be a hard critic a lot of the time, bu sometimes even I feel like handing in my vegan card and telling people, "oh hi, I eat a plant based diet, don't consume or use any animal based products, and really care about nature and the environment. What is a vegan?"
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#9 Old 10-11-2011, 07:26 PM
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I don't think she's being over sensitive at all. Things got really crazy on her FB page the other day and it got really ugly with the nasty comments and attacks.

I guess she deleted a bunch of comments since then? I did a lot of scrolling and all the comments seemed overwhelmingly positive.

Some of the posts on that honey thread though.... There's a difference between being the "vegan police" and understanding that calling yourself a vegan while eating hamburgers occasionally and honey every day makes no sense

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#10 Old 10-11-2011, 08:55 PM
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I agree with a lot of what she said in the post. It did sound a bit like she was throwing a tantrum at first, but it also sounds like she was entitled to a little tantrum throwing.

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#11 Old 10-11-2011, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Teresa View Post

I scanned her post. Agreed that being public about being vegan can change everything. I'm the only vegan I know. The idea that all vegans get along or there is this vegan "community" is something I don't agree with. At least not from my view.

Agreed. This point makes me happy that I'm the only vegan I actually know because I would want to be friends with them but, I know I probably couldn't be lol
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#12 Old 10-11-2011, 09:10 PM
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I think that as veganism and vegetarianism is such a controversial thing in society, being a public vegan or vegetarian will end up generating multiple online clusterf***s on your facebook page and that is what she has experienced. I dont blame her for being weary of all the drama. I hope that she continues to focus on her cause though and not let herself be deterred from doing what she wants to do.

I saw some of the comments on her page and it appeared to be an argument between an omni woman and a very angry vegan man who was writing in livid capital letters. But I am not sure what it had to do with her, it didnt seem to be directed at her, but all the same I can see why she wouldnt want it taking place on her wall.
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#13 Old 10-11-2011, 10:08 PM
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I think it's sad.

This stuff happens in other movements too. I can't tell you how many women I know say they used to call themselves feminists but now they don't. Unfortunately even if they start calling themselves womanists or something else they still tend to withdraw from the movement in general.

Instead of changing her behaviors or changing her understanding of the word vegan she chose to abandon it entirely and at the same time paint all vegans as extremists, meanies, and hairsplitters. While i can certainly understand her reaction from an emotional perspective, I don't think she was acting from a place of compassion for animals when she declared that she's not vegan anymore. I don't think her announcement will encourage others to adopt a plant based diet; I think it just divides the animal movement further.
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#14 Old 10-11-2011, 10:36 PM
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^ Good point. I think on the whole though she is a sort of "omni oriented" vegetarian. I have her book and it seems to be geared towards encouraging omnis to try her food, and cooking for new vegetarians. Which is a good thing as it encourages people who are omnis to look at flexitarianism etc. I think that is sort of how she is so perhaps she shouldnt be a vegan anyway.
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#15 Old 10-11-2011, 10:52 PM
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Sad I can see why she posted what she did. I've been attacked by the "veg*n police," it really is off putting. It's the reason I failed at being a vegetarian at the very beginning. And it's the reason I'll never identify as a vegan because I'll never be perfect.
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#16 Old 10-11-2011, 11:09 PM
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Elaine, I saw your post on her blog. There are a few or at least a blog post about honey....there were some nasty comments like "epic fail", where it wasn't an epic fail at all....that would be like going out and intentionally eating a burger.

anyway, I think too, that she's just giving up the title, and sticking with plant based food recipes...

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#17 Old 10-11-2011, 11:25 PM
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I have seen both sides of this argument. I'm not on her FB page, and it was usually searching recipes that occasionally I'd find her blog. Having said that, I cannot vouch for whether she "ate cotton candy at a ball game." whether it was vegan or not, and I've seen the vegan police here on vb get ugly, too. It's why I tend to stay away from labels altogether. Yes, I've made vegan food things, because of food allergies, not because of factory farming, or animal rights reasons. That is, for those who gave up eating meat, eggs, dairy and wearing animal byproducts (wool and leather come to mind, I'm sure there's more then that, though) because of animal rights, can, for the most part, go back eating (baking with) eggs and dairy, and no one will get ill. It might take awhile for your body to acclaimate to your new diet, but you'll be fine. If I do this, it'd have to be for myself, as I have one family member with an egg allergy and another with a dairy allergy. Believe me, I'm far from perfect, and am careful about what I post on the internet.

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#18 Old 10-11-2011, 11:54 PM
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#19 Old 10-12-2011, 04:01 AM
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rofl!

Was she really beautiful? Was she at least what they call attractive? She was exasperation, she was torture. ― Vladimir Nabokov, Ada, or Ardor

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#20 Old 10-12-2011, 04:15 AM
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I read the blog post linked to in the OP which I didn't see anything wrong with. In another blog post she seemed a bit flakey on the question of honey. Nothing a nice re-education camp in Siberia couldn't fix.

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#21 Old 10-12-2011, 04:36 AM
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Sad I can see why she posted what she did. I've been attacked by the "veg*n police," it really is off putting. It's the reason I failed at being a vegetarian at the very beginning. And it's the reason I'll never identify as a vegan because I'll never be perfect.

Yes - I've changed my label back to vegetarian recently because I am not vegan enough. I still eat vegan, think vegan, but if anyone asks...I'm a vegetarian who doesn't eat dairy products or eggs (I've never liked honey so I don't see the point in including that in my definition because I wouldn't eat anything with honey in anyway).
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#22 Old 10-12-2011, 06:48 AM
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All of us vegans make compromises whether we like it or not. Your house has plywood in it and cow blood is used there, if you have a rescue dog because you refuse to buy one from a pet shop or a breeder, you still compromise every time you take him to the vet because those vets did their studies using the bodies of other animals to dissect, intubate, kill. If you eat organic food from the supermarket, know this, most of those organic farms use animal manure to fertilize the gardens and they aren't coaxing the odd deer or wild bird to come take a dump on a plot of garden, it's coming from animal agriculture farms and the same goes for mushrooms which are grown in animal based composts.....we can only try to limit our use of animals, but to end it entirely is impossible.

The vegan police need to rethink their tactics because they are as guilty as any of us.
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#23 Old 10-12-2011, 07:27 AM
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I agree with a lot of what she said. I did not read her blog yesterday or any of the reactions to it, but I've read several articles lately about how vegans are becoming fed up because they can't measure up to the ideal use of the label.

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#24 Old 10-12-2011, 11:39 AM
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I agree with a lot of what she said. I did not read her blog yesterday or any of the reactions to it, but I've read several articles lately about how vegans are becoming fed up because they can't measure up to the ideal use of the label.

Perhaps they need to rethink their label.

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#25 Old 10-12-2011, 11:43 AM
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It's something that has been talked about a lot on here, the 'vegan police' that is.

I don't call myself a vegan anymore, even though everything I eat is plant based. I call myself an herbivore, and I have for a while. The minute you put a 'V' word on anything, everyone, omnivores and otherwise, are there to point out how you're not.

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#26 Old 10-12-2011, 12:22 PM
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It's something that has been talked about a lot on here, the 'vegan police' that is.

I don't call myself a vegan anymore, even though everything I eat is plant based. I call myself an herbivore, and I have for a while. The minute you put a 'V' word on anything, everyone, omnivores and otherwise, are there to point out how you're not.

I like that. I actually have a small sticker on my car that says "herbivore", so I may begin to use that word too.

Sometimes vegans lose sight that that main goal (for most of us, anyway) is to prevent animal suffering. To discourage someone for not checking the source of sugar at a ballpark seems completely absurd to me. If the Happy Herbivore had chosen to eat peanuts instead, the so-called vegan police could reasonably take offense because the harvesting of peanuts obviously causes insect and rodent deaths. How can you ever be vegan enough based on those standards? I'm sure there are animal product molecules by the gazillions just floating in the air at most ballparks and most public events - perhaps all proper vegans should wear masks except at home. Or else be more realistic and supportive of the efforts of others simply to be more compassionate to animals.

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#27 Old 10-12-2011, 12:30 PM
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I have never seen a "real" vegan police in my life.

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#28 Old 10-12-2011, 12:35 PM
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Sure you have. They show up here quite often --->


It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#29 Old 10-12-2011, 12:41 PM
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I don't think that her decision to renounce her veganism has much to do with any negative input from other vegans. I am cynical enough to think that it's a business decision. Like a few mildly successful bloggers before her, she probably realises (maybe with the help of pressure from her publisher), that she can reach a much wider audience with her books if she broadens the appeal by using the term "plant-based" instead of vegan.



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All of us vegans make compromises whether we like it or not. Your house has plywood in it and cow blood is used there, if you have a rescue dog because you refuse to buy one from a pet shop or a breeder, you still compromise every time you take him to the vet because those vets did their studies using the bodies of other animals to dissect, intubate, kill. If you eat organic food from the supermarket, know this, most of those organic farms use animal manure to fertilize the gardens and they aren't coaxing the odd deer or wild bird to come take a dump on a plot of garden, it's coming from animal agriculture farms and the same goes for mushrooms which are grown in animal based composts.....we can only try to limit our use of animals, but to end it entirely is impossible.

The vegan police need to rethink their tactics because they are as guilty as any of us.

Vegans have no reason to feel guilty over the things that they CAN'T avoid. Eating honey and cotton candy doesn't qualify for that list. Working out what is and what is not a vegan practice is such a simple concept, I really don't understand why so many people seem to struggle to understand it.

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#30 Old 10-12-2011, 12:48 PM
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Sure you have. They show up here quite often --->


That's a misunderstanding, the "vegan police" is in fact a "vinaigrette police", coming here to save us from the horrors of non-crispy salad drenched in disgusting dressing.

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