What anti vegan arguments do you get most often? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 04-18-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kai Reddtail View Post

This is the "arguement" I hear 99% of the time, and if they don't start with it they end with it. lol.

ETA: Guess I can't criticize them too much though, that was the arguement I used to use at one time.


If I can get a person to admit there are moral problems with eating meat, but they still say it's too good to give up, I usually ask them if they could give it up two days a week or one meal per day. Almost anyone could do that. It's the "foot in the door" tactic, used my salesmen and non profits. I think it can be used to promoted veganism as well. If you can get someone to make a small change in the short term they'll be more likely to make a larger change later on, and may even decide to go farther by themselves without being prompted.

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#32 Old 04-18-2011, 03:20 PM
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I have heard both "We can do as we please with them" and "They deserve to die" I've heard the first one once, but the second one faaar too many times.

Wow, you must be around a lot of asshats :/
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#33 Old 04-18-2011, 06:56 PM
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Cows will explode if you don't milk them.

The thing that drives me nuts about this comment is that I live in an area with lots of dairy farms. I would think the people around here would realize that cows don't produce milk until they give birth. Their eyes glaze over when I mention this and they seem puzzled when I point out that their babies are stolen for veal or to become dairy cows and that they are forced to produce much more milk for people than they would make naturally for their calves.
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#34 Old 04-18-2011, 07:22 PM
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I have actually gotten this one just once, but it stuck with me for some reason... "if it weren't for meat eating humans would not have developed their brain capacity to what it is now".

So somehow, meat eating was the evolutionary miracle that got us to where we are today.

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#35 Old 04-18-2011, 08:01 PM
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I've actually had someone ask me where I get vitamins. Really. Vitamins. Since fruits and veggies are so notoriously deficient in vitamins, I guess.

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#36 Old 04-18-2011, 09:27 PM
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I like the taste of meat.

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#37 Old 04-18-2011, 09:28 PM
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I have actually gotten this one just once, but it stuck with me for some reason... "if it weren't for meat eating humans would not have developed their brain capacity to what it is now".

So somehow, meat eating was the evolutionary miracle that got us to where we are today.

I hear this A LOT, and from an anthropological perspective, it simply isn't true.

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#38 Old 04-18-2011, 09:34 PM
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People who did 4H in high school and say that they know all about the meat industry. They RAISED and BOTTLE FED their baby calves until adult age when they personally took them to a stock show, showed them off, and then sold them for a high price to be murdered for meat. And some even ate the exact cow they raised. I cannot even fathom this- carnivore or vegan, how could ANYONE do that???
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#39 Old 04-18-2011, 09:37 PM
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People who did 4H in high school and say that they know all about the meat industry. They RAISED and BOTTLE FED their baby calves until adult age when they personally took them to a stock show, showed them off, and then sold them for a high price to be murdered for meat. And some even ate the exact cow they raised. I cannot even fathom this- carnivore or vegan, how could ANYONE do that???

I don't understand 4H either. I was at a puppy mill protest on Saturday, and one of my fellow protesters said that her kids do the 4H program. HUH???

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#40 Old 04-18-2011, 09:56 PM
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People who did 4H in high school and say that they know all about the meat industry. They RAISED and BOTTLE FED their baby calves until adult age when they personally took them to a stock show, showed them off, and then sold them for a high price to be murdered for meat. And some even ate the exact cow they raised. I cannot even fathom this- carnivore or vegan, how could ANYONE do that???

I don't get it, either, I really don't...

The arguments I've heard have all been mentioned, I think: the standard "oh, vegetarian I get, but veganism, isn't that taking things a bit far?", "but cows need to be milked, otherwise they'll get uncomfortable and be in pain", "where will you get your calcium?", etc.

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#41 Old 04-23-2011, 08:41 PM
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I've gotten "its not safe" and "meat was the reason why human were able to evolve to what they are today"...about that second one, what do I say about that? Some please tell me, I would really like to know how to reply
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#42 Old 04-24-2011, 09:09 AM
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Being vegan is unhealthy.

Being vegan is so extreme.
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#43 Old 04-24-2011, 09:21 AM
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I've gotten "its not safe" and "meat was the reason why human were able to evolve to what they are today"...about that second one, what do I say about that? Some please tell me, I would really like to know how to reply

You could say that our pre-human ancestors didn't have the range of food options we have now, and that we aren't equipped to digest meat the way predator and scavenger animals do, which is why humans have to cook meat first or risk food poisoning.
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#44 Old 04-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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I just had a co worker tell me that veganism is unhealthy because soy causes breast cancer. It's amazing how people who blissfully down cheeseburgers every day are concerned for the health of people who don't.
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#45 Old 04-24-2011, 01:40 PM
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today : 'but what if you get pregnant? why would you harm your child like that'....

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#46 Old 04-24-2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Herbivorous B.I.G. View Post

I just got the "it's not natural" argument tonight...from somebody eating a fast food cheeseburger.

Which, you know, is totally natural.


Good one!
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#47 Old 04-24-2011, 02:38 PM
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I've gotten "its not safe" and "meat was the reason why human were able to evolve to what they are today"...about that second one, what do I say about that? Some please tell me, I would really like to know how to reply

Tell them that is simply untrue. For many years this has actually been the prevailing hypothesis as to why we evolved into the way we are today. However, anthropologists now believe that the reason is because we were hunted by so many predators that it was necessary for us to develop larger brains. Read "Man The Hunted" for more information.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Hunted-Pre...3681111&sr=8-3

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#48 Old 04-24-2011, 03:06 PM
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anthropologists now believe that the reason is because we were hunted by so many predators that it was necessary for us to develop larger brains

I prefer the Kubrick/Clarke Monolith hypothesis.

If I have to explain the joke it's not funny anymore, so I won't

Seriously though, of course we can't know and it wouldn't matter even if we could know what drove human intellectual development (although it's fun to speculate), but cooking food and the improvement of scavenging skills would get my nod.

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#49 Old 04-24-2011, 03:08 PM
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I prefer the Kubrick/Clarke Monolith hypothesis.

Same here, but I know a lot of people who haven't even heard of that movie, so the reference is lost on them. So sad.

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#50 Old 04-24-2011, 04:01 PM
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Tell them that is simply untrue. For many years this has actually been the prevailing hypothesis as to why we evolved into the way we are today. However, anthropologists now believe that the reason is because we were hunted by so many predators that it was necessary for us to develop larger brains. Read "Man The Hunted" for more information.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Hunted-Pre...3681111&sr=8-3

thank you! that helps a lot! That argument really fustrated me because all my meat lover friends were nodding along to it, and I didn't know how to reply to it without sounding like I was defensive or biased
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#51 Old 04-24-2011, 10:30 PM
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the main one i get is that i have put myself at the bottom of the foodchain. i dont really get the importance of this, and im just as likely to get eaten by a shark as the biggest meat eater, but hey.
and then theres the whole malnourished thing. to which i point out the fact that i eat more healthily than the majority of meat eaters.
and if whoevers talking to me tries to make more points, i do a full on rant about veganism, morality etc for as long as i can before they walk away in shame >:] gotta enjoy the little things~

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#52 Old 04-25-2011, 03:49 AM
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Does anybody have a good argument for "we couldn't have survived the ice age without meat" Just wondering..

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#53 Old 04-25-2011, 06:20 AM
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Does anybody have a good argument for "we couldn't have survived the ice age without meat" Just wondering..

How about we are no longer in the ice age, so it's irrelevant.

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#54 Old 04-25-2011, 08:00 AM
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Does anybody have a good argument for "we couldn't have survived the ice age without meat" Just wondering..

A. What Kibbleforlola stated.

B. Correlation is not causation. In other words, because humans ate meat and humans survived the ice age does not mean that humans could not have survived the ice age. Plenty of herbivorous animals survived.

C. Proof? Can this person demonstrate that being vegetarian during this time means they would have died?

D. What do human past actions have to do with current actions and how far back should we go? Should we get rid of all modern technology, go back to living like they did during the ice age, take on a variety of different social norms, customs, habits, etc all in the name of 'Hey humans wouldn't have survived the last ice age if we didn't do these things...'

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#55 Old 04-25-2011, 11:22 AM
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Now, even assuming that we did survive the ice age because of it. That still doesn't have any impact on the morals which I practice today, does it? I always suggest to those people that they can go live in a cave and eat nothing but half-cooked mammoth for the rest of their lives, while I will enjoy living in today.

Also, the reasoning that our brains only got larger because of eating meat. Assuming it's true, that's also BS when trying to argue for today. What was important about the meat was the protein, which enabled the brain to grow larger - and we can get plenty of protein without meat these days. Besides, however much protein I eat, my brain will NOT grow from that to any extent that will be noticable. Period. That's not how it works. Just like needing bigger muscles will not make me grow bigger muscles. Lamarck is so out!

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#56 Old 04-26-2011, 06:04 PM
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I agree

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#57 Old 04-26-2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Herbivorous B.I.G. View Post

I just got the "it's not natural" argument tonight...from somebody eating a fast food cheeseburger.

Which, you know, is totally natural.

You didn't know big Macs grow on trees?

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#58 Old 04-26-2011, 06:30 PM
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Does anybody have a good argument for "we couldn't have survived the ice age without meat"

In addition to being irrelevant according to current scientific theories 'survived during the ice age [by eating meat]' is just plain wrong. Try 'survived during the ice age by foraging for root vegetables and also eating shellfish'. Not vegetarian, but equally not the 'brave hunter' B movie fantasy he apparently goes for.

Or maybe he meant one of the little ice ages? Again the 'brave hunter' fantasy is entirely mythical (probably, but I can't know for sure any more than he can). The bulk of calories came from foraged foodstuff and (not vegetarian, but not what he imagines either) small game.

And of course scavanging other critters' kills, but folks don't like to bring that up cuz it's kinda icky.

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#59 Old 04-26-2011, 06:50 PM
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This is probably only an argument one would hear in Canada but "Hunting was how our ancestors survived, without the fur trade Canada wouldn't be here" I guess its similar to the ice age argument.

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#60 Old 04-26-2011, 10:15 PM
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The whole genre of "ancient humans did whatever" arguments really confuse me. Ancient humans did a great many things, but only a few seem to be taken as a guide to how we should behave today.

Or not so ancient. Yeah, that whole fur trade thing worked out just GREAT for first nations folks.

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