Oh to be a girl and vegan! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-16-2011, 09:40 PM
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So little by little I find myself trying to live a cruelty-free lifestyle. There is one thing I just can't find an adequate replacement for: tampons. I've tried the two alternatives and they kinda suck. I'm not willing to try anything other than tampons such as diva cups or reusable pads. I'm about at my wit's end and ready to throw in the towel and say sorry on this one. Any suggestions? On a side note I've also had little luck in finding any good cruelty-free deodorants and could use some advice in that department as well.
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#2 Old 03-16-2011, 09:46 PM
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http://crueltyfreeshop.com.au/?cPath...ain_page=index
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#3 Old 03-16-2011, 10:08 PM
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Wait, why aren't tampons vegan? I thought they were made of cotton.

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#4 Old 03-16-2011, 10:08 PM
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wow. those are rather expensive
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#5 Old 03-16-2011, 10:23 PM
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Yes they are expensive. But I thought maybe you could look for that brand and see if any other sites sell them for less.

GoGo, being a health product some tampons may be tested on animals and therefore would not be considered cruelty free or vegan.
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#6 Old 03-16-2011, 11:27 PM
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I bought some of the Natracare ones from LuckyVitamin.com ( http://www.luckyvitamin.com/m-86-natracare ). A better price, but of course they'll be more than Always or other commercial brands. There is also Seventh Generation, but I haven't tried them.

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#7 Old 03-16-2011, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GoGoGoddess View Post

Wait, why aren't tampons vegan? I thought they were made of cotton.

Animal testing.

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#8 Old 03-17-2011, 12:25 AM
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Animal testing.

But to use them is a need, not a want, right?

If I go to the doctors and NEED certain drugs, even though I know they have been tested on animals, I have to have them. I don't agree with animal testing, and I can make that clear by my support of charities like BUAV, but if I really need them, it is stupid not to take them.

I need tampons every month, like most women. Therefore worrying about whether they are vegan or not comes into the same category as wondering whether my computer is vegan or not, or my car, or that photograph on the wall. In my opinion.

Seriously, if an omnivore was reading this thread, what do you think they would think? Would they think ' this veganism sounds really interesting and doable, and I love the fact that as a vegan you have to re-consider absolutely everything that you use, I think I'll give it a try', or would they think 'jeez, they are obsessed, I could NEVER do that'.

How is the thought process of making tampons not suitable for vegans helping animals?
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#9 Old 03-17-2011, 01:00 AM
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A little devil's advocate for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie54321 View Post

But to use them is a need, not a want, right?

Depends on how you look at it.

Quote:
I need tampons every month, like most women. Therefore worrying about whether they are vegan or not comes into the same category as wondering whether my computer is vegan or not, or my car, or that photograph on the wall. In my opinion.

I see your point, but it could be argued that since there are options like pads (whose animal testing-ness I know nothing about), reusable pads, and menstrual cups, you don't need tampons. There are options, therefore they are not in the same category because there is no substitute for a computer, and only sometimes a substitute for a car or photograph. Eliminating those things from our lives is not practical for most people, but eliminating tampons is entirely possible.

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Seriously, if an omnivore was reading this thread, what do you think they would think? Would they think ' this veganism sounds really interesting and doable, and I love the fact that as a vegan you have to re-consider absolutely everything that you use, I think I'll give it a try', or would they think 'jeez, they are obsessed, I could NEVER do that'.

I agree. At the same time, though, I don't think we should base what we think solely on how approachable it is for omnivores.

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How is the thought process of making tampons not suitable for vegans helping animals?

The thought process is that if something is being tested on animals and we don't need it, we shouldn't use it because it's unnecessary harm.
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#10 Old 03-17-2011, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Clarita Osita View Post

A little devil's advocate for you:

Depends on how you look at it.


I see your point, but it could be argued that since there are options like pads (whose animal testing-ness I know nothing about), reusable pads, and menstrual cups, you don't need tampons. There are options, therefore they are not in the same category because there is no substitute for a computer, and only sometimes a substitute for a car or photograph. Eliminating those things from our lives is not practical for most people, but eliminating tampons is entirely possible.


I agree. At the same time, though, I don't think we should base what we think solely on how approachable it is for omnivores.


The thought process is that if something is being tested on animals and we don't need it, we shouldn't use it because it's unnecessary harm.

I presume if tampons go through animal testing, then there is a high likelihood (have I spelt that right? it looks wrong!) of sanitary towels also going through animal testing. Most women are out at work; plenty of them in jobs where they can't just go to the toilet when they need to, they have to wait for a break. They NEED something 99% reliable. That (in my personal experience) would not include reusable towels or mooncups.

And let's not forget that no one NEEDS a car - go back 50 years and most people didn't have one. No one NEEDS a photo on the wall, or a computer. These are all wants.

I'm against animal testing: of course I am. But I just think that the vegan movement sometimes, from the outside, looks very extreme (which is the main reason I didn't become a vegan for a very long time - I was a vegetarian for 28 years, so I was outside looking in) and I don't think it does the animals any favours at all (I was going to say 'I don't think it does 'us' any favours, but then I thought that it's not about 'us', is it? It's about them - the animals - and sometimes we can lose sight of that in our aim to reach purity in our veganism).
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#11 Old 03-17-2011, 01:36 AM
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There are plenty of people who think not drinking milk is "extreme" and vegans are crazy for having a problem with taking milk from cows, so it's all about perspective really.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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#12 Old 03-17-2011, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by angie54321 View Post

But I just think that the vegan movement sometimes, from the outside, looks very extreme (which is the main reason I didn't become a vegan for a very long time - I was a vegetarian for 28 years, so I was outside looking in)

To be honest, I think people who eat dead animals and drink the milk meant for the babies of a different species are extreme.
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#13 Old 03-17-2011, 01:42 AM
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Also, disposable cruelty free tampons/pads do exist! To be honest it hadn't occured to me that those products would ever be tested on animals (why is that necessary? why?) but after a quick Google search I'm thinking of ordering some pads from this company: http://www.bewellstaywell.com/sanita...mpons-s/69.htm

Certified organic and cruelty free

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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#14 Old 03-17-2011, 01:43 AM
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There are plenty of people who think not drinking milk is "extreme" and vegans are crazy for having a problem with taking milk from cows, so it's all about perspective really.

Agreed: and as a vegetarian, I did think that not drinking milk was extreme. Until someone explained to me how cruel the dairy industry was.

And I know the vivesection industry is cruel too. But we run the risk of being seen as extreme is we are here, on a forum that is available to the general public, discussing how vegan tampons, tables, computers and photographs are. I'm not sure how many people we will convert to veganism this way. And how many people we will turn away from it (remember, I am talking from the perspective of 28 years of being turned off from veganism because of the extreme attitudes I had come across).
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#15 Old 03-17-2011, 01:55 AM
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Agreed: and as a vegetarian, I did think that not drinking milk was extreme. Until someone explained to me how cruel the dairy industry was.

And I know the vivesection industry is cruel too. But we run the risk of being seen as extreme is we are here, on a forum that is available to the general public, discussing how vegan tampons, tables, computers and photographs are. I'm not sure how many people we will convert to veganism this way. And how many people we will turn away from it (remember, I am talking from the perspective of 28 years of being turned off from veganism because of the extreme attitudes I had come across).

I'm more concerned about making ethical choices and being morally consistent than what people think of me. It's true some people might be turned off thinking caring about animal testing is too extreme but those same people think not wanting to kill animals for food is extreme and impractical too. I can't buy products I know are cruel just for the sake of making other people more comfortable, they're going to do what they're going to do.

New ideas are always met with resistance at first, I felt the same way that you used to about not drinking milk until I researched it and learned why vegans made the choices that they did. After that it made sense, and anyone with a natural curiosity about things who hears about "extreme" ideas can research it to find an explanation, and maybe they'll be exposed to some new information they'd never considered before.

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#16 Old 03-17-2011, 02:05 AM
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I'm more concerned about making ethical choices and being morally consistent than what people think of me.

Agreed
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#17 Old 03-17-2011, 03:56 AM
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I'm more concerned about making ethical choices and being morally consistent than what people think of me. It's true some people might be turned off thinking caring about animal testing is too extreme but those same people think not wanting to kill animals for food is extreme and impractical too. I can't buy products I know are cruel just for the sake of making other people more comfortable, they're going to do what they're going to do.

New ideas are always met with resistance at first, I felt the same way that you used to about not drinking milk until I researched it and learned why vegans made the choices that they did. After that it made sense, and anyone with a natural curiosity about things who hears about "extreme" ideas can research it to find an explanation, and maybe they'll be exposed to some new information they'd never considered before.

I was actually a member of the BUAV while I was a vegetarian. So I was always against animal testing.

I suppose it is something I have been thinking of over the last few days. I don't give a damn about being morally consistent or trying to be the perfect vegan: I care purely for the animals. I am constantly thinking: what is the best way (when the conversation talks to veganism) to explain to people why I am vegan, without them seeing me as extreme, as morally superior, and doing something that most people can't (read :won't) do.

Now personally, I have found that the extreme vegans, just like any other extreme group, talk and shout the loudest. They are the ones talking about whether you can have a car, or use any form of wheeled transport because tyres have animal products in. They are the ones discussing the animal products in photograph production. They are the ones talking about whether computers are vegan or not. This is completely different to animal testing, which most people are against once they realise there are alternatives. These are extreme views. These conversations go on online and offline every day. I don't believe they do animals any favours; sure, they may make the people involved feel morally superior, and almost like martyrs, but they don't save animals lives. I keep banging on about that: but that is the crux of my point - how can I make people see that veganism isn't about examining every single object that we come across every day, and discussing how vegan it is. Because the vast majority of people don't want to spend their lives doing that.

I do have a unique perspective, as mentioned before: I was a vegetarian for 28 YEARS. I knew about veganism, sure. But I thought it was extreme. And I thought it was extreme because of the vegans I had met who didn't look, dress or act in any way normal. And who had strict views about what could and couldn't be eaten, worn and used. (BTW Werewolf Girl, I am not suggesting that YOU do this - but some vegans are very voluminous about the lengths they go to to avoid all animal products, or products tested on animals. And it is these people that I am addressing).

Nobody suggested that I could be 'almost vegan': oh no, it was full-on veganism, or nothing (or vegetarianism, with lots of dairy, which is the path I chose).

Now just think if I had gone vegan 29 years ago, how many more animals lives could have been saved. Take into account that my husband turned vegetarian because of me - would he have gone vegan if I was? Probably. Take into account that I have bought 3 children up as vegetarian. Would I have bought them up vegan - definitely. HOW MANY ANIMALS SUFFERED IN THOSE 28 YEARS BECAUSE I HAD COME ACROSS EXTREME VEGAN VIEWS? I dread to think. I really dread to think.

Why did I go vegan?

I was studying critical social psychology: I had to do a project and could choose the subject matter and the perspective that I would view from. My paper was called 'Being vegan in an omnivorous world: a phenomenological perspective'. (I chose to study veganism because I thought that vegetarianism was now too common.) I had to interview a couple of vegans. One who had gone vegan at the same time I went vegetarian, and one who was bringing up 2 small children as vegans.

What did these two women have in common? Both did the best they could: neither were extreme. They did their best, to not only live a vegan lifestyle, but to promote it to others. Both were involved in local animal welfare movements. Neither of them considered being extreme as setting a good example. Both were thoughtful, both were looking at veganism from the perspective of the animals, and not of their personal moral and ethical viewpoints which they could use to berate others. I listened, I learned, and my respect for them grew.

I did some more research.

I went vegan.

It's a very personal perspective, the tale above, I appreciate that. But I am always mindful of the effect of what I say and do in front of others because of my personal experiences. I do care about what they think of me and the choices I make because that may affect how they think of animal suffering (and whether or not they do something about it). The moderate vegan (although not as ethical or morally consistent as the 'real' vegan), may encourage more people to either stop eating animals or eat less animals. And THAT is the only thing I am interested in.

Right, back to talking about tampons! I'll leave you lot alone now
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#18 Old 03-17-2011, 05:33 AM
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Hey Angie, was that an OU course?
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#19 Old 03-17-2011, 05:37 AM
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I don't really believe that tampons would be tested on animals nowadays. Maybe they were in the past, to make sure the materials didn't cause irritation or something, but I would think they would be one of those things that are considered to be safe unless they are using some sort of new space-age materials.

Proctor and Gamble does not test most of its products on animals, for one example. They make Tampax tampons. You could write to the company to be sure that particular product is not tested on animals.
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#20 Old 03-17-2011, 05:50 AM
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Hey Angie, was that an OU course?

Yes. Did you do it too?
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#21 Old 03-17-2011, 05:51 AM
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Yes. Did you do it too?

I'm doing it now
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#22 Old 03-17-2011, 05:53 AM
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Are you enjoying it? It's quite a controversial course. Personally I would have preferred social psychology with a helping of critical on the side, rather than full-on critical. There were times when I nearly threw the books out the window!

The project was really interesting to do though....
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#23 Old 03-17-2011, 07:56 AM
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http://www.bewellstaywell.com/sanita...mpons-s/69.htm

Certified organic and cruelty free

thanks for the link!

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#24 Old 03-17-2011, 08:00 AM
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@angie:
no one is asking you to be that extreme just do what you can! chill! if the OP wants to buy cruelty free tampons than all the better for her! doing extra good deeds! You don't have to do that to be Vegan.
Remember, it's all about the non human animals and the environement, help them as much as you can, YOU DON'T HAVE TO do it. (i dont see any laws about it) It's like charity work.

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#25 Old 03-17-2011, 08:52 AM
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@angie:
no one is asking you to be that extreme just do what you can! chill! if the OP wants to buy cruelty free tampons than all the better for her! doing extra good deeds! You don't have to do that to be Vegan.
Remember, it's all about the non human animals and the environement, help them as much as you can, YOU DON'T HAVE TO do it. (i dont see any laws about it) It's like charity work.

Yeah, I know It's just that recently I have been thinking about my (long) journey to veganism, and was reminded why I had chosen to be a vegetarian and not vegan.

It is important to remember that this site is viewable to everyone - veg*ns and omnivores, and sometimes discussions about using vegan tampons, when viewed from a different perspective to ours, can seem extreme to the vast majority of inhabitants of the western world (but not the enlightened ones like us, of course )
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#26 Old 03-17-2011, 08:53 AM
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I was skeptical, but I finally did try out a Diva cup and I like it so much better than tampons, but I use both, depending on which is more convenient in a situation. I probably use the cup about 75% of the time.
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#27 Old 03-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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A while ago I decided that my energy was better spent trying to encourage other people to eat a plant-based diet than taking my veganism farther than the basics of food and clothing.

Every now and then when I find a good alternative to something that's a teeny bit questionable then I consider changing. Like this issue wherein the tampons themselves are vegan, but if they're made by a company that tests on animals then a boycott of all the company's products may be warranted if a good alternative exists. So, for example, I might just stop using OB and start using a 7th Generation tampon instead. But that all depends on the cost and convenience. It's a rather trivial point, since the specific product is already vegan (as in not containing any animal products), so I'm not all that concerned.

On the other hand, if I can encourage just one person to stop eating animal products (or if I can convince 7 people to go vegan one day a week) then I've DOUBLED my impact as a vegan!!! So... that's where I spend the majority of my time and energy regarding my veganism.
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#28 Old 03-17-2011, 11:05 AM
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I see your point, but it could be argued that since there are options like pads (whose animal testing-ness I know nothing about), reusable pads, and menstrual cups, you don't need tampons.

I really DO need tampons. It's the only fuss-free and sophisticated method of managing periods AFAIC. I know I'm probably going to get stirred-up by some of my male friends when they read this post, but I find pad-wearing to be disgusting. I really don't wanna walk around feeling blood leaking out of me and then having to sit with a damp and scrunched up piece of material in my knickers. I'm sorry, but that's way too unsophisticated for me. And Diva cups are almost as bad - I want my menstrual flow to be absorbed, I don't want it sloshing around in liquid form in a cup between my legs.

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#29 Old 03-17-2011, 11:41 AM
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Haha. I don't feel any sloshing when I use my Diva Cup. I don't feel anything. And I like being able to see how much blood I've lost. I'd just recommend women give it a try.

Before I found the Diva Cup, I tried cloth pads and they are definitely NOT for me.
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#30 Old 03-17-2011, 11:44 AM
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I do have a unique perspective, as mentioned before: I was a vegetarian for 28 YEARS. I knew about veganism, sure. But I thought it was extreme. And I thought it was extreme because of the vegans I had met who didn't look, dress or act in any way normal. And who had strict views about what could and couldn't be eaten, worn and used. (BTW Werewolf Girl, I am not suggesting that YOU do this - but some vegans are very voluminous about the lengths they go to to avoid all animal products, or products tested on animals. And it is these people that I am addressing).

Nobody suggested that I could be 'almost vegan': oh no, it was full-on veganism, or nothing (or vegetarianism, with lots of dairy, which is the path I chose).

Now just think if I had gone vegan 29 years ago, how many more animals lives could have been saved. Take into account that my husband turned vegetarian because of me - would he have gone vegan if I was? Probably. Take into account that I have bought 3 children up as vegetarian. Would I have bought them up vegan - definitely. HOW MANY ANIMALS SUFFERED IN THOSE 28 YEARS BECAUSE I HAD COME ACROSS EXTREME VEGAN VIEWS? I dread to think. I really dread to think.

I apologize in advance if this sounds harsh. It's not at all personal and I hold no angry feelings towards you or anyone else in similar shoes. I'm just going to call it as I see it. I hope you're not offended by this.

Is it really fair to blame a few "extreme" vegans for your inaction? Why not blame yourself for not finding the moderate vegans earlier? You said the moderates helped you go vegan when you found them, so isn't it possible that the extreme vegans made you aware enough to seek out moderate vegans? Or Isn't it possible that you had a sort of blinder on and simply didn't really "see" the moderate vegans all around you until you started looking? Isn't it possible that the extreme vegans were meremy a convenient excuse for you to use until you were ready to go vegan? Isn't it farmore likely that your transition timeline had more to do with you than with outside influences? Or that if outside influences had a significant effect, isn't it more likely that the stronger forces were the anti-vegans, not the "extreme" vegans?

I'm all for a moderate approach. And i do believe that we're more effective at advocating veganism when we help people take the first step rather than when we expect them to take the last step. But what I cant stand is when people refuse to accept their own complicity in animal exploitation and blame others for it instead. Get real, get honest. It wasn't anyone else's fault that you didn't go vegan sooner. Take responsibility for your actions. Stop blaming others.

Here's the reality about animal advocacy: there are some strategies that are more effective than others, but few to none are counter-productive because in the long run we will win. Animal rights is fair, just, and right. Moreover, they're self-evident. Truth and justice will persevere regardless of any inefficient use advocates' time and resources.

So, we should strive to compel animal advocates to be more effective, but we can't rightly blame them for thngs they haven't done.
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