"Vegan Cheese is Just as Inhumane as Dairy Cheese" - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-28-2009, 12:49 PM
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Seen here:



http://nothoney.com/2009/06/15/vegan...-dairy-cheese/



Quote:

"So, if you decided to try a vegan diet because its healthier and you love the taste of the new-and-improved vegan cheeses FAIL.

However, if you chose a vegan lifestyle because you want to minimize your negative effects on the planet and on non-human animals, and youre indulging in vegan cheese and other products that contain palm oil BIG FAIL."



My question.. do people on here watch their ingredients that do not come from animal sources but affect animals? I feel like I keep falling deeper and deeper into a big, huge mess known as FOOD.
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#2 Old 09-28-2009, 12:52 PM
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I didn't know that about palm oil. The more I read and learn, the more it makes me feel like there is nothing I can eat w/o feeling guilty.
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#3 Old 09-28-2009, 12:59 PM
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*shrug* Not all vegan cheese contains palm oil, so the title is a little misleading. She's got a point, perhaps, about the palm oil, but I'd have preferred her to do more research about alternatives before making sweeping statements.

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#4 Old 09-28-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

*shrug* Not all vegan cheese contains palm oil, so the title is a little misleading. She's got a point, perhaps, about the palm oil, but I'd have preferred her to do more research about alternatives before making sweeping statements.

She mentioned two vegan cheeses in particular, but you have to look at the link for that... I don't know the ingredients of all the cheeses, but I would assume it's in a lot. Otherwise, yes, I agree that she should've been more explicit & researched further.



I never even thought about palm oil tho. Ugh.
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#5 Old 09-28-2009, 01:24 PM
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The article stinks of vegan police and draws a conclusion that isn't there. When saying that vegan cheese is as bad as dairy cheese are they taking account of both the suffering of the cattle and the environmental damage caused by keeping them?



You could just as easily claim that by having that website they are causing environmental damage and therefore causing death, making them as bad as a butcher.
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#6 Old 09-28-2009, 01:36 PM
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Good thing that I'm eating very little cheese then.

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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#7 Old 09-28-2009, 01:54 PM
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I have only had FYH's mozzarella... The ingredients for that are:



Filtered water, expeller pressed canola oil, tofu (soybeans, calcium sulfate), soy protein, inulin (a natural extract of chicory), agar, sea salt, natural flavor (vegan), carrageenan (from seaweed), calcium lactate (vegan), lactic acid (vegan).



What percentage guilty would you say I had to feel. Certainly not AS guilty as if I'd eaten cow's milk cheese. But I need a number, here, people, so I can tally up my guilt.
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#8 Old 09-28-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semicharmed View Post

I have only had FYH's mozzarella... The ingredients for that are:



Filtered water, expeller pressed canola oil, tofu (soybeans, calcium sulfate), soy protein, inulin (a natural extract of chicory), agar, sea salt, natural flavor (vegan), carrageenan (from seaweed), calcium lactate (vegan), lactic acid (vegan).



What percentage guilty would you say I had to feel. Certainly not AS guilty as if I'd eaten cow's milk cheese. But I need a number, here, people, so I can tally up my guilt.



12.9% and not a tenth of a percent more!





That being said, palm oil is definitely not good for the environment, but it's probably not a good idea to make generalizations about products or people's contributions to "suffering".
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#9 Old 09-28-2009, 01:56 PM
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12.9% and not a tenth of a percent more!



Fair.
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#10 Old 09-28-2009, 02:08 PM
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Vegan cheese probably isn't the only thing I may eat with palm oil. Now that I know, I'll be avoiding anything with palm oil in it.
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#11 Old 09-28-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Elinor View Post

Vegan cheese probably isn't the only thing I may eat with palm oil. Now that I know, I'll be avoiding anything with palm oil in it.



That would include Earth Balance btw.
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#12 Old 09-28-2009, 02:11 PM
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Sigh. Yes, palm oil is a problem, but I wouldn't say this is the most encouraging of articles to persuade people to eat less of it. This kind of approach is often popular with people who are already fans of that particular cause, but tends to scare off/alienate other people, particularly new or potential vegans who then get overwhelmed because they feel they can't eat anything without someone jumping on them...



There will always be people out there who criticise vegans for not being 'vegan enough', for reasons such as but not limited to:



- eating palm oil

- not eating organic food

- eating GM food

- not being animal rights activists

- driving a car (the tyres might have animal products in them)

- eating soya

- eating non-fairtrade chocolate

- buying food at supermarkets

- eating anything that might have been transported in an aeroplane

- eating any amount of junk food ever



Although it's usually one set of people saying each thing, rather than one person being able to avoid all of the above.



What you must *not* do at this point is think, "sod it, I'll never be 'good enough' to be a vegan, I might as well give up now and go eat a cheeseburger". Yes, it's good to make informed choices, but as vegans and vegetarians we're already doing more good than a lot of people with our food choices, so at the same time also bear in mind the good stuff we're doing - basically don't get overwhelmed.



This is not a rant at any one particular person, not even the person who wrote this article, it's just that this business of attacking anyone who tries to do any good by eating a vegetarian or vegan diet has been irritating me recently. We'd do a lot more good by encouraging more people to become vegetarian or vegan rather than attacking people who are already trying.



Inform by all means, but don't alienate.



</rant>
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#13 Old 09-28-2009, 02:17 PM
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You forgot "going to the movies."
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#14 Old 09-28-2009, 02:27 PM
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Or "living".

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#15 Old 09-28-2009, 02:36 PM
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Although I don't eat vegan cheese I was aware of the palm oil and the impact it has the orangutans. It bothers me that so many people choose Earth Balance spread and that is also palm oil based. I would rather eat partially hydrogenated dairy-free margarine than contribute to orangutan habitat destruction even if that causes harm to me. I'd rather knowingly harm myself than an innocent.
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#16 Old 09-28-2009, 02:45 PM
 
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Plus.....not all palm oil is created equal.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#17 Old 09-28-2009, 02:46 PM
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I only buy Follow Your Heart mozzarella and that doesn't have palm oil in it. I will never knowingly buy anything with palm oil in it. There have been some products I've really wanted and I just won't buy them when I see palm oil. Except I do have some Earth Balance - I've been buying it for so long I never even thought to check the label I realized it had palm oil in it about a month or so ago. I will never buy it again, while it still has the oil in it. I don't really even want to finish it, when I think about what happens to the orangutans.



It's very brutal. They chop their hands off, burn them, torture them and leave the mothers to die while ripping away babies to sell on the black market. I have those images in my mind the same way I would have images of veal calves, if I ate dairy. It's not an appealing food.



This is how sensitive and smart orangutans are:



[youtube]d79ArrL8VRg&[/youtube]



I think it's good the blogger is bringing attention to palm oil, and I hope veg*ns demand that products no longer contain it, and no longer purchase any products that do contain it and let the manufacturer know why.

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#18 Old 09-28-2009, 03:02 PM
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I try to avoid palm oil, yes, but that article was not informative, nor was it helpful.
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#19 Old 09-28-2009, 03:07 PM
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What a fantastic video!
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#20 Old 09-28-2009, 03:43 PM
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Thank you derwenna, I was definitely suffering from the "I will never be good enough so why bother" syndrome.
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#21 Old 09-28-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treehugger267 View Post

Thank you derwenna, I was definitely suffering from the "I will never be good enough so why bother" syndrome.



I think you should not take other peoples' (e.g. the author of the blog) phrasing of a situation so literally as to make you say, "Well if I'm not perfect, I'll just give up." You have to get information where you can, think it through yourself, do your own research, and make your own decisions, otherwise you're just going to be blown around by other peoples' opinions. Palm is not really a "vegan" issue anyway - it's not "unvegan" to eat palm. It's just a specific food item that is connected to some very bad events and I personally think should be avoided.

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#22 Old 09-28-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

I think you should not take other peoples' (e.g. the author of the blog) phrasing of a situation so literally as to make you say, "Well if I'm not perfect, I'll just give up." You have to get information where you can, think it through yourself, do your own research, and make your own decisions, otherwise you're just going to be blown around by other peoples' opinions. Palm is not really a "vegan" issue anyway - it's not "unvegan" to eat palm. It's just a specific food item that is connected to some very bad events and I personally think should be avoided.



I know and you are right. Sometimes then endless research makes me tired and overwhelmed. I wish there were a Perfect Diet for Dummies book....lol
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#23 Old 09-28-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Treehugger267 View Post

I know and you are right. Sometimes then endless research makes me tired and overwhelmed. I wish there were a Perfect Diet for Dummies book....lol



Maybe lay off from heavy researching for awhile... You know the obvious sources of animal products...meat, dairy, eggs...and at least a few by-products like gelatin, casein, whey... and now you know something about palm... You're not expected to know about everything right away, or to be perfect. Most of us who now refuse to use palm were unknowingly using palm before we even knew there was an issue - the information hasn't been getting out until more recently - and when we heard about it we changed. You can't know everything. Just try to stay aware and informed as best you can.

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#24 Old 09-28-2009, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Treehugger267 View Post

...I was definitely suffering from the "I will never be good enough so why bother" syndrome.

Which is exactly what the author of that blog wants, so she will have plenty of company to make her feel better. She hardly comes across in that article as someone who cares about orangutans as much as she comes across as someone who is being defensive.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#25 Old 09-28-2009, 04:18 PM
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Which is exactly what the author of that blog wants,



definitely it would have been better phrased as, "Did you know this about palm oil?" and urging people to stop its use, rather than the "just as inhumane" angle.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#26 Old 09-28-2009, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

definitely it would have been better phrased as, "Did you know this about palm oil?" and urging people to stop its use, rather than the "just as inhumane" angle.

Exactly. It's not as if vegans are going to be as resistant to changing a tiny number of food products as most "animal loving" meat eaters are going to be to give up bacon.

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#27 Old 09-28-2009, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

definitely it would have been better phrased as, "Did you know this about palm oil?" and urging people to stop its use, rather than the "just as inhumane" angle.



Better phrased that way if sweet-and-gentle was the goal of the person writing it.



If it was to get wider attention through shock value, it was phrased perfectly.



*shrug* That's just how this sort of thing works. I personally would not have read an article that was like "Oh, hey, did you know palm oil is lousy for X Y and Z?" because yeah, I already know that. But I DID read this article because it was phrased in such a harsh way. AND, because of that, it served the purpose of reminding me how bad palm oil is, even though I already knew it. I mean, heck, when I was an omnivore, I *knew* meat was from slaughtered animals. Of course I did. It was the shock value of seeing Earthlings that made me go vegan, even if I didn't agree with every word in the documentary, just as I don't agree with every word of that article.
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#28 Old 09-28-2009, 04:32 PM
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One thing though is that I wish that people weren't as reactive to the judgments (real or perceived) of other veg*ns... her phrasing doesn't really affect me much because I look at my own actions and purchases and decide if they're "vegan enough" - I think there are probably vegans who are more strict or pure about some products than I am, but I make my own decision and wouldn't be "guilt tripped" or whatever into feeling like I'm not good enough or I'll just give it up because someone might be able to be even more perfect than I am... I know that no one is perfect, nor can they be. So in a way I think - So what, she phrased it like that, maybe she brought a little attention to palm oil, maybe some companies will take notice.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#29 Old 09-28-2009, 04:34 PM
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I do avoid palm oil, which is a shame because many products with vegan ingredients have palm oil in them. The only time I will purchase something with palm oil listed is if it's organic or says Fair Trade, because some palm oil IS produced ethically.



I always avoid it in the cheapest products, because you know it's come from an unethical source there.



Plus, vegan cheese is eurgh.
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#30 Old 09-28-2009, 04:39 PM
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I didn't eat anything with Palm Oil when I was an omni, let alone when I was a vegan.

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