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#1 Old 08-30-2009, 10:39 PM
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I have been working on learning how to tie flies for many years. Just this summer I decided that a vegan lifestyle is what I desire and am now conflicted. While I love fly fishing I just don't know the point in doing it anymore. The same goes for fly tying. The majority of all materials are from animals and that does not fit in adopting a totally vegan approach to life.



I was thinking of just taking off the barbs on my hooks to aid in catch and release(Which is pretty much the way I have always fished). I find fishing very peaceful. It's all about being in nature for me and just hanging out in a cold stream.



If I continue tying flies and fishing catch and release would I be a hypocrite calling myself vegan. I won't be eating the fish though. If that does make me a hypocrite I have some other ideas for enjoying the cold streams. For example I can join trout unlimited and do work to maintain my local streams so they will be a source of life for many generations.



Also my idea of why someone becomes vegan is in protest of the horrible industrial farms where animals are treated like meat. Does catch and release fishing still support those horrible places? I really would like to hear what some other people think.

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#2 Old 08-30-2009, 10:50 PM
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I think fishing catch and release would in fact go against the vegan code. The hook is still painful in the fish's mouth and there is a momentary suffocation while you've got the fish out of water pulling the hook out. It's not factory farming, but I think in a way it might be (aren't some places stocked with farmed fish or am I thinking that's just lakes that do that?). It is, however, cruel and imo, that's what the vegan code stands for more than anything (but don't listen to me, I'm just vegetarian ). I don't know if there's any way to fish with no bait, flies or other attractants but if there is, that might be a possibility. Think of it as either having an eternally bad fishing day or an eternally good one, depending on who's point of view you're taking. I think, however, working to maintain streams or cleaning up streams might be a step in the right direction although I know nothing about Trout Unlimited themselves.
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#3 Old 08-30-2009, 10:55 PM
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I don't know abut the hypocritical thing... but I would do the steam helping thing, just because it's beneficial rather than "not as bad as eating the fish".
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#4 Old 08-30-2009, 11:51 PM
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i think by all means make all the flies you want, as a skill (although transferring it to something else arty-crafty would be cooler- you could be an undiscovered fantastic jeweller or modelmaker!).. but catching fish, even if you release them, is cruel. they don't particularly appreciate nor relish the experience of being yanked out of the water and flapping about suffocating in the air and plonked in a net then let go again or whatever, barbed hook or no. your idea of doing waterway conservation sounds better... or just go and sit by the river and dangle a string on a stick in it. thats quite a nice lazy persuit. you could even not bother with the stick and take a book or just daydream.
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#5 Old 08-31-2009, 06:27 PM
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You could always turn your love of the outdoors into something that doesn't involve fishing, such as boating or wildlife photography. And of course, there are ways to directly aid waterways. For example, participating in/organizing river "clean sweeps", in which volunteers collect trash and keep waterways clean.

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#6 Old 08-31-2009, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpacker View Post


I was thinking of just taking off the barbs on my hooks to aid in catch and release(Which is pretty much the way I have always fished). I find fishing very peaceful. It's all about being in nature for me and just hanging out in a cold stream.

Somehow I don't think the fish find it "very peaceful".



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Also my idea of why someone becomes vegan is in protest of the horrible industrial farms where animals are treated like meat. Does catch and release fishing still support those horrible places? I really would like to hear what some other people think.



Catch and release fishing, while not as full on as factory farming, is still an activity based on cruelty. Fish suffer shock, distress and pain. Some die. Not all, not most, about 2%-5% die of shock. Liken it to being mugged and smothered for no reason other than the person really enjoys smothering other people to the point of, but not until, they die. Not fun. Can't you take up photography or drawing or hiking or something? I really don't see how you can equate this sort of activity with a vegan lifestyle at all. For meat eaters I might say it's better and kinder than the kill and eat sort of fishing but I just don't see how catch and release fits in with veganism at all.

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#7 Old 08-31-2009, 08:51 PM
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You could always turn your love of the outdoors into something that doesn't involve fishing, such as boating or wildlife photography. And of course, there are ways to directly aid waterways. For example, participating in/organizing river "clean sweeps", in which volunteers collect trash and keep waterways clean.



this is a good suggestion. i used to be into fishing as well. when i was younger my dad and i would go out for 8 hours or longer and just fish. it was hard to give up but i ended up feeling really bad and i know i ended up killing several fishes just for my own amusement. i still like to go out to the lake and just sit and read, swim, and take pictures. sometimes i enjoy hiking or boating as well. to me it seems as though you feel some guilt about it or you wouldn't have brought it up.

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#8 Old 08-31-2009, 10:13 PM
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Yes I am feeling guilty about fishing. It is messed up how some people fish. Catch a fish then put it in a basket so it gets to suffocate. Fishing has been a little difficult for me lately. The medication I take makes me a little shaky and because of that I find it hard to tie on flies. I usually get frustrated and just sit down and relax.



I took up meditating a few months ago and sitting by a stream would be very peaceful. Maybe I can get a waterproof case for my camera and try to take pictures of the fish?



EDIT: I do a form of hunting every now and then. Instead of a gun I use my camera. I think it is very challenging because the animals are very good at hiding.

"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom"
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#9 Old 08-31-2009, 10:38 PM
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You could sit out in the water and pretend you're fishing, if the whole idea of holding a pole is what calms you. I know some people who lov(ed) fishing, but didn't want to harm them anymore, so they sit out in the water, holding a pole, and pretend. Kinda like how I would "fish" my cats from the side of the couch when I was five. xD

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#10 Old 08-31-2009, 10:48 PM
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^^^ cat-string-couch-fishing is a bit more of an active sport though really. you'd probably benefit from protective gear, and i think its main theraputic benefit would be laughter-therapy.





mcpacker: i think the camera 'shooting' option is definately a better one. my bf loves setting up a camera on a tripod with a remote and sitting for a couple hours with a beer relaxing and shooting hummingbirds in the garden. if you're a bit shaky you might find a remote really handy, and personally i know i find photography pretty rewarding and relaxing (once i get past the technical aspects!)- it really forces you to slow down, be patient, and really take in whats going on around you- and the satisfaction when you get a great image- nothing like it really.



i don't know about shooting fish (underwater kits are kinda expensive and i'd expect ponds to be a smidge murky and fish a bit unpredictable) but there are certainly many possibilities to enjoy the riverbank and chill out with a camera- lots of other creatures about- waterfowl, kingfishers, frogs, dragonflies... all kindsa cool animal peeps whom you could make trophies of on photographic paper.
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#11 Old 09-01-2009, 12:02 AM
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Another vote for camera hunting. I think it's a better sport than gun or bow hunting for sure.
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#12 Old 09-01-2009, 05:59 AM
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Wildlife photography is one of my favorite hobbies too. Unusually enough, I actually dream about it quite often.

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#13 Old 09-01-2009, 09:39 AM
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there are more problems from fishing than just the harming of the fish which is caught (whether it is released or not).



*Lost lines can get caught around other animals eg turtles and birds legs, which can result in infection and death.

*some of the metals used in fishing gear can have toxins, lead sinkers in particular (i know you don't use these in FF)

*travelling from one stream to the next can introduce pathogens that you pick up in one place and take to another. This is especially true with boating.



So some of these won't apply to you. But some might. Being vegan involves sacrifices. I won't ride horses anymore even though it was something I enjoyed. So be it.
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#14 Old 09-02-2009, 12:55 AM
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Morals do mean sacrifices in a way. Living by your morals gives you a good feeling and that cancels out any sacrifices.

"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom"
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#15 Old 09-02-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peace View Post

You could always turn your love of the outdoors into something that doesn't involve fishing, such as boating or wildlife photography. And of course, there are ways to directly aid waterways. For example, participating in/organizing river "clean sweeps", in which volunteers collect trash and keep waterways clean.



When people say they enjoy hunting or fishing a lot of times they say they had an enjoyable day even when they didn't kill anything. There are so many ways to enjoy the outdoors from easy stuff like boating or easy hikes to challenging things like rock climbing and more difficult hikes. There is also swimming, trail running, fauna and flora identification, camping, IDing bird songs etc.



Quote:
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EDIT: I do a form of hunting every now and then. Instead of a gun I use my camera. I think it is very challenging because the animals are very good at hiding.



I like that, mc, the best kind of hunting.
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#16 Old 09-02-2009, 02:21 PM
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I knew a guy who did fancy fly fishing lures and sold them as art. He did also recreationally fish, but for the "art" ones, he made stands for them that looked kind of like shepherd's crooks and had it counter balanced with a weight. I think it would be even more interesting if you made them with found feathers and things.



WRT hanging out in the woods and streams, could you learn some sort of other outdoor skill, like foraging? I think the forrging guys who know what every single thing in the woods is and which you can eat and use for medicinal purposes are really cool. That and mycologists, people who study/collect/forage for mushrooms.

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#17 Old 09-02-2009, 10:44 PM
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WRT hanging out in the woods and streams, could you learn some sort of other outdoor skill, like foraging? I think the forrging guys who know what every single thing in the woods is and which you can eat and use for medicinal purposes are really cool. That and mycologists, people who study/collect/forage for mushrooms.



I found a course through a local raw vegan restaurant I like. You spend the weekend camping in western wisconsin and you eat what you find. They teach you what can be eaten and what can't be. That is right down my alley. If anyone is interested in seeing what the course is about go to http://www.ecopolitan.com. They have great food at the restaurant!

"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom"
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#18 Old 09-03-2009, 07:28 AM
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that would be awesome. I just spent four days last week looking at tiny seedlings growing after fires in the bush and we weren't allowed to eat any of them
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