crippingly tired mid-late afternoon - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-13-2008, 08:28 PM
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Ok this is a problem I started struggling with a few weeks ago when I was still eating meat (though lightly) and vascillating between that and a vegan (mostly raw) diet. In the mid-afternoon I am crippingly tired.

Vegan days I would fall asleep on the subway or come home mid afternoon and have to nap. I couldn't work out or anything. I am a freelancer and looking for pt event planning work (have a 2nd interview this week) but this freaked me out. The exhaustion has been so bad I feel I am drowning or someone is pulling a blanket over my head.

Now I am just doing vegetarian (3 days meat free- LOL don't laugh its an accomplishment) with vegan here and there (am going to try and do vegan 2-3 days a week but not raw bc then I don't eat enough calories. Today was just a vegetarian day and 330 I crawled into bed> couldnt move until 530.

I was wondering if its depression (God knows losing my job in May and some stuff I have gone thru would cause that) but I actually feel good. I have that 2nd interview, I am taking control of my health (and helping animals and the environment). So I dont know if its boredom or am I detoxing? WTF?

I can't exercise ether which usually helps as I hurt my knee/hamstring.
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#2 Old 10-13-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by VeggieLizzie View Post

Ok this is a problem I started struggling with a few weeks ago when I was still eating meat (though lightly) and vascillating between that and a vegan (mostly raw) diet. In the mid-afternoon I am crippingly tired.

Vegan days I would fall asleep on the subway or come home mid afternoon and have to nap. I couldn't work out or anything. I am a freelancer and looking for pt event planning work (have a 2nd interview this week) but this freaked me out. The exhaustion has been so bad I feel I am drowning or someone is pulling a blanket over my head.

Now I am just doing vegetarian (3 days meat free- LOL don't laugh its an accomplishment) with vegan here and there (am going to try and do vegan 2-3 days a week but not raw bc then I don't eat enough calories. Today was just a vegetarian day and 330 I crawled into bed> couldnt move until 530.

I was wondering if its depression (God knows losing my job in May and some stuff I have gone thru would cause that) but I actually feel good. I have that 2nd interview, I am taking control of my health (and helping animals and the environment). So I dont know if its boredom or am I detoxing? WTF?

I can't exercise ether which usually helps as I hurt my knee/hamstring.



Some people take longer to adapt to a vegetarian/vegan diet than others. I think you should read this if you haven't already:

http://www.vegsource.com/lyman/beginner.htm

Make sure you are getting the right amount of calories, too.
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#3 Old 10-13-2008, 09:05 PM
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You could be deficient in vitamins-- B vits especially, B-6 & B-12-- and yes, you can be deficient in B's and still be an omnivore. Cripplingly tired is nothing to screw around with. It is a symptom of a lot of very bad things so don't ignore it. Go to a doctor.
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#4 Old 10-13-2008, 09:30 PM
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Thanks ElArte and Gita. ElArte I was reading the thing you sent me and I am trying to go slow (as was another person's rec), I am eating at least 1700-2000 calories a day and trying to lose weight slowly so that's good.

Gita- I am going for blood tests inthe morning anyway. I had a cortisol problem 2 years ago which caused alot of weight gain real fast. They weren't sure why. Tomorrow they are testing that, thyroid and some other things. It could be B-12 or B-6 deficiency. I ate red meat 1 times a month or less as an omni and I was anemic.

Thanks!
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#5 Old 10-13-2008, 10:54 PM
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I'm kind of wondering if you are not eating enough, or often enough, when you go raw vegan. I recently bought a raw "cook"book, Ani's Raw Food Kitchen, which is great. (I'm not raw, just like the food and recipes.) There are lots of items that can be made and stored in the fridge, or carried around with you, so you might avoid the mid-afternoon energy dip. I've only been able to try a few recipes so far, but I just love it.



Personally, I have more energy (and more weight) since going veg, so can't really relate to your problem, but reading between the lines, it sort of looks like you're not eating often enough, or well enough, during the day on the days you eat veg.

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#6 Old 10-14-2008, 03:25 AM
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I'd check to make sure you are eating enough calories for sure. I always carry nuts and a banana around with me for a quick hit of energy in the arvo as my sugar levels tend to drop quickly. Also look into some low GI vege cooking so you have a more sustained release of energy.
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#7 Old 10-14-2008, 04:59 PM
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Thanks so much for the tips! Nuts and bananas are great. Even as an omni, when I was thinner, my pre-run meal was always peanut butter, banana and whole grain wasa or bread. Yes, I think it could be a sugar drop with energy. When I was omni-ing and then vegan cleansing the other days, I drank that naked juice stuff and it does have alot of sugar even if it is all natural.

I will definitely check out the cookbook. I am veganing it tonight through Thurs nite. Tonight I am having basmati rice with garlic and maybe peas and my new seitan sausage. Oh and a big leafy salad with avocado and tomato.

I hope I don't botch that one. It looks so tasty!



Today was much better even though I slept really poorly. Had alot of energy- which is good considering the financial stress I am going through at the moment.

Me on the left, NYS government on the right



That's actually more peaceful than am currently feeling. Is anarchy really that bad?
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#8 Old 10-14-2008, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by VeggieLizzie View Post

Thanks so much for the tips! Nuts and bananas are great. Even as an omni, when I was thinner, my pre-run meal was always peanut butter, banana and whole grain wasa or bread. Yes, I think it could be a sugar drop with energy. When I was omni-ing and then vegan cleansing the other days, I drank that naked juice stuff and it does have alot of sugar even if it is all natural.

I will definitely check out the cookbook. I am veganing it tonight through Thurs nite. Tonight I am having basmati rice with garlic and maybe peas and my new seitan sausage. Oh and a big leafy salad with avocado and tomato.

I hope I don't botch that one. It looks so tasty!



Today was much better even though I slept really poorly. Had alot of energy- which is good considering the financial stress I am going through at the moment.

Me on the left, NYS government on the right



That's actually more peaceful than am currently feeling. Is anarchy really that bad?



If you're going to stay vegan, you will probably want to pick up a B12 supplement.



Are you currently running? I hadn't seen you mention that so far before the post I quote. If you are, you will definitely need to make sure you're eating enough.



For me, when I feel tired (I'm a runner too) I make sure to eat dark leafy greens and broccoli and it generally helps. I especially like collards, kale and mustard greens.
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#9 Old 10-14-2008, 06:47 PM
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Brandon: I think I am just easing into it slowly altho I am going to try to do vegan a few days a week at least. The soy cheese grosses me out (at least the one I have had) and I am trying to avoid tons of soy. Is there like veggie cheese made of something OTHER than soy?



I am not running yet, I need to knock some weight off. Long story short, I did run and gained a bunch of weight in like 2 months (a couple of years ago)- I had cortisol issues and they thought i had a tumor esp with the super-rapid gain. I am also having thyroid and a bunch of other tests done to make sure everything is ok now. I have been trying to lose weight since july without alot of success (low cal, medium cal, low carb, etc.) however 4 days as a veggie and I have lost 2 pounds. INTERESTING.

I can't wait to run again. I used to do triathlons too. I dont' k now if you have ever done one but talk about a great feeling....



I had brocs tonight with my rice. Never tried kale or mustard greens I didnt really love collard greens but would be willing to try them again. Spinach (indian) food is great. I don't know if you are vegan but there is a spinach/ginger recipe at my local indian place- I think they may use a touch of yogurt though but I am sure u can substitute. It has lots of other tasty seasonings too and a few potatoes or chick peas I think. Bonus: super high in iron, super low in calories. IF you are interested, let me know and I will get you the recipe from the 'net, looked it up the other week bc I want to learn how to make it!
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#10 Old 10-14-2008, 07:56 PM
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It is very typical that your blood sugar drops at mid morning and mid afternoon...a few hours after you would eat.

try eating a snack BEFORE the typicall time that you feel this lull. If its usually 330, make sure you eat something by 3 pm.

Something with carbs and protein are best. A half a pb sandwich, trail mix or soyogurt/ granola, etcetc.



You may want to see about getting your blood sugar/ insulin response done at the docs too.
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#11 Old 10-15-2008, 08:50 AM
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Thanks LA- PB is one of my personal faves I think they are actually checking my glucose levels....
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#12 Old 10-16-2008, 02:25 PM
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Hmmm.. what you're describing sounds remarkably similar to my sister's symptoms (she's even fallen asleep while standing) except she had remarkable weight gain. She was given full bloodwork and the docs are puzzled. Like you, she seems to watch her calories and USED to run but has been too tired to do so lately. Hopefully your doctors don't give up on the puzzle as quickly as my sister's did! Wish I could offer more.
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#13 Old 10-16-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by VeggieLizzie View Post

Brandon: I think I am just easing into it slowly altho I am going to try to do vegan a few days a week at least. The soy cheese grosses me out (at least the one I have had) and I am trying to avoid tons of soy. Is there like veggie cheese made of something OTHER than soy?



I am not running yet, I need to knock some weight off. Long story short, I did run and gained a bunch of weight in like 2 months (a couple of years ago)- I had cortisol issues and they thought i had a tumor esp with the super-rapid gain. I am also having thyroid and a bunch of other tests done to make sure everything is ok now. I have been trying to lose weight since july without alot of success (low cal, medium cal, low carb, etc.) however 4 days as a veggie and I have lost 2 pounds. INTERESTING.

I can't wait to run again. I used to do triathlons too. I dont' k now if you have ever done one but talk about a great feeling....



I had brocs tonight with my rice. Never tried kale or mustard greens I didnt really love collard greens but would be willing to try them again. Spinach (indian) food is great. I don't know if you are vegan but there is a spinach/ginger recipe at my local indian place- I think they may use a touch of yogurt though but I am sure u can substitute. It has lots of other tasty seasonings too and a few potatoes or chick peas I think. Bonus: super high in iron, super low in calories. IF you are interested, let me know and I will get you the recipe from the 'net, looked it up the other week bc I want to learn how to make it!



I am indeed vegan and I love indian food. However, I think a lot of the spinach dishes contain butter. If you would like to share that recipe, though, I'd love to check it out. Feel free to PM me.
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#14 Old 10-16-2008, 09:46 PM
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I did too, EarthWhispers- 30 pounds in three months. Everyone at work thought I was unhappy. Well I WAS unhappy but that doesn't mean I set my head in a dominos pizza box every night. The fact that I was in good shape and athletic before that should have been a tip off but sometimes people are kinda "d'oh".



My cortisol levels came back high, they thought I had a tumor blah blah

OK so I havent been the best about following up (my boss at the time wasn't really supportive of dr appts) but I managed to stop the weight gain and now they are doing followup cortisol and thyroid and some other garbage. Honestly, after I accurately diagnosed MYSELF with melanoma I really don't have that much faith in the medical community.



I hope your sis is ok. Make sure to tell her to be persistent. Do lots of research. Its her body and she knows it better than anyone else, and she shouldn't let anyone "dismiss" her. The docs were "puzzled" with me too I got everything from "you shouldn't eat carbs! Don't ever!" to "you have bad genetics" to "what are you eating really, you MUST be eating more than you are telling me (meanwhile I was eating less than I did 30-40 pounds ago)". You know whats funny? It took me 3 months to lose 3 pounds and in theh 5 days I have been a vegetarian I have lost an additional 3. Ironic, eh? Maybe it was the MEAT considering I am eating the same number of calories, sometimes more. Feeling better about my veggie decision everyday!
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#15 Old 10-16-2008, 10:42 PM
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Oops... I meant weight LOSS. She's been very unhappy... rough divorce and financial issues... but it hasn't affected her appetite in one way or another. I am constantly reminding her to keep pushing on, but as I'm sure you know, sometimes a tired, sick and frustrated person just gives up for awhile.



I understand your lack of faith in medicine lately. Mine has been faltering quite a bit with some recent family members' experiences. In my sister's case, she was repeatedly told to "call later" over a span of a week after doing a round of tests. She finally gets a nurse on the phone who tells her that the bloodwork results have been there since the day after she took the tests. The nurse browses over it and says, "well, you're not anemic... oh wait... that's really odd..." Yeah, not what you want to hear when you are wondering what's wrong with you. The nurse hung up on my sister (probably embarrassed).



A day later a doctor finally calls and tells her her iron levels are high but her iron stores are low. He prescribes a high dose of iron supplements and tells her to come back in 2 months if she's not feeling better. Iron is too high, but take supplements to raise it?



I'm not an expert on this, but I thought it best she get a second opinion. The second doc about flipped that Doc 1 told her to take iron. "What is he trying to do? Kill you?" This second doc has since had sis in for a half dozen rounds of tests and appointments. So far no answers, but we keep pushing her to push on. We will find a solution... even if we have to do it ourselves!



Thank you for the well wishes. Passing on some healthy vibes to you, as well!
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#16 Old 10-16-2008, 10:56 PM
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Yes, people don't realize that mood can affect body chemistry and weight. My friend is lik ethat too- she was going through some really bad stuff personally and is very thin naturally and the weight fell off her. It was alarming.



That iron stuff is.... what is wrong with these people?! I was really shocked the 2nd doc said that about the 1st doc. Are you not in America? Not to be totally jaded but drs here like to totally cover each others butts even when the other doctor is totally wrong. Its the biggest union either.



I am sorry, I dont want to sound jaded. My father died of melanoma and i have many moles but one what was always "eh" and all the doctors would say "well i don tlike it but i dont want to take it off, u will have a scar". Thanks, dude. Finally, I insisted when it got BLUE in it, and I still had to wait 3 months (with my family history) while chicks getting botox streamed in and out. Sure enough, I told them to take it off, I insisted (they thought it was fine) and it was melanoma. Its enough to make u want to go to med school. But I digress... I hate hearing stories like your sisters, please tell her to hang in there. I am serious, google, 3rd opinion, 10th opinion, be as informed as possible, and tell her to be persistent. She is paying these people and deserves to be treated well.



Thank you for the well wishes Please keep my updated! I know how frustrating it can be....
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#17 Old 10-16-2008, 10:58 PM
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Btw, EarthWhispers, I love your avatar. It reminds me of my kitty Max from days of yore



My 8 year old brother named him after our car, the Nissan Maxima
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#18 Old 10-16-2008, 11:01 PM
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Brandon- IIRC it involves very little dairy, and MUCH less fattening than saag paneer which is boring to me anyway. Spicier and tastier! Prob can substitute soy-based item



I will find the recipe and pm you. There are so many indian spinach dishes I sometimes get confused, one time I ordered the wrong one and there was no ginger



Ah well, I love Indian food anyway! Btw, my local place uses NO ghee so when I go there next time (yes sadly they KNOW me) I will see what they use in place since ghee is animal based.
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#19 Old 10-16-2008, 11:12 PM
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Are you not in America? Not to be totally jaded but drs here like to totally cover each others butts even when the other doctor is totally wrong. Its the biggest union either.



Surprisingly, yes... this was a good ol' Wisconsin doctor. I think it kind of slipped.



Quote:
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I am sorry, I dont want to sound jaded. My father died of melanoma and i have many moles but one what was always "eh" and all the doctors would say "well i don tlike it but i dont want to take it off, u will have a scar". Thanks, dude. Finally, I insisted when it got BLUE in it, and I still had to wait 3 months (with my family history) while chicks getting botox streamed in and out. Sure enough, I told them to take it off, I insisted (they thought it was fine) and it was melanoma. Its enough to make u want to go to med school. But I digress... I hate hearing stories like your sisters, please tell her to hang in there. I am serious, google, 3rd opinion, 10th opinion, be as informed as possible, and tell her to be persistent. She is paying these people and deserves to be treated well.



I don't blame you for being jaded. Your story alone would have done it for me!



We have a pretty interesting family history too... and the doctors always seem to ignore it or reference it at their convenience. Even in my own case, several years ago I was having some issue breathing. It only affected me at home or in really hot conditions (at work). My doctor saw a history of asthma in my family and treated me as if i had it even though she admitted there was no evidence of it in my tests. TWO YEARS later, after being rushed to the ER, a young doctor that had known me all of 5 minutes told me he suspected the issue might be environmental. My prescription? Check my house for mold. Let me put it this way... within 3 DAYS after moving I was able to completely stop the medications.
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#20 Old 10-16-2008, 11:13 PM
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Btw, EarthWhispers, I love your avatar. It reminds me of my kitty Max from days of yore



My 8 year old brother named him after our car, the Nissan Maxima



Thanks! That's my Selune.
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#21 Old 10-17-2008, 09:36 PM
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Selune is adorable- love that pic



Doctors using your history or ignoring it? Sad, but somehow not shocking. Sometimes honestly don't you feel they don't tell u anything u cant figure out on your own. U just need them to write you prescriptions and for surgery. I am so sorry to hear about your mold situation and the effect on the asthma and the moron dr. What the ????? Its like "doing some tests, ask some questions" I am glad u were ok after all that.



We had mold in one apt here in NY. it had rained and the rain was streaming down my roommates wall (near the outlet)- we called the mgmt office and said "we have water running down the wall" and they said "o its probably just all the water on the roof, but we can't do anything till its done raining." UMM OK- it ended up raining for 9 days straight! Needless to say she ended up getting some yellowing on her ceiling and then a bit of ceiling inthe corner crumbled and fell in. a few months later green moss like stuff started sprouting on the wall in my room. We moved out shortly afteward bc they wouldnt do anything. SIGH....
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#22 Old 10-18-2008, 06:40 AM
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Ahh yes... only thing worse than lackluster doctoring has to be poor management. In my case, I had a feeling the doctor was right about mold at my place because we had been dealing with a leaky pipe for some time. I repeatedly reported it to the landlady... even threatened to contact appropriate legal sources... and it was almost 6 months before someone came to fix the 1 foot bubble in our kitchen ceiling. We were told to "learn how a shower curtain works, because the water is obviously leaking from the tub in the bathroom above the kitchen." I's sorry, but at 25 I was pretty sure I had figured out how a shower curtain worked.



That bubble had to be re-fixed four times over a span of a year. The repairman never bothered to dry out the water inside the ceiling, so mold was forming all over. We broke our lease to move out once the doctor made his suggestion. Luckily, by threatening to contact the health department, we were given our full security deposit back and released from our lease with no issue.





(Wow, I am so sorry for dragging this post so completely off-track. It's just the way my mind flows! )
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#23 Old 10-18-2008, 10:07 AM
 
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My first thought when reading the op was re blood sugar as well. One of my sisters has trouble with hypoglycemia and gets all messed up when she doesn't eat frequently enough, or eats poorly.



What are you having for lunch? If it is a blood sugar issue, you might be able to trace it to some certain foods that are helping sugar spikes/drops.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#24 Old 10-19-2008, 02:56 PM
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Well on the vegan days, originally I would have some of that naked juice (its a brand if you are unfamiliar with it). But I agree I think it probably totally spiked my blood sugar and then it crashes. Also I eat mainly nuts and seeds when I am vegan but probably not enough of them (or I wasn't eating enough the few days I ate raw bc I wasn't eating beans which I eat alot when I am eating vegan).



Last week when I was veganizing I was ok, I really think I need to watch the "raw days". Thanks!!!
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#25 Old 10-19-2008, 06:40 PM
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nuts and seeds wont give you enough cals/ energy ...you need some carbs in there along w/ those nuts.

Carbs are what give you energy, and coupled with protein and fats, the energy will last longer.

thats why beans are a great energy source, because they have a good carb/ protein ratio.
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#26 Old 10-19-2008, 07:00 PM
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Yeh, that's why I gave up the raw-ness when doing vegan because I don' tknow how to sprout foods and my only fat was coming from the nuts and seeds and of course I wasnt really getting any carbs since you cant eat bread or pasta.



Big fan of beans- v. tasty and good for so many recipes!
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