Vegan help [depression and diet] - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-10-2008, 01:42 AM
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Hi:



I'm new here. I have a long story but in the end I need to know how to combat my depression brought on by vegan diet.



I was diagnosed with bipolar about 9 years ago and have been on every drug imaginable to combat it but it was only kinda managing it. Still had suicidal thoughts. I am not pestered with anxiety and my episodes were not related to stinking thinking...it was definitely a physical problem.



2 years ago I went to a Naturopath who did a vega test on me. He told me I was intolerant to: Soy, Milk, Wheat, Tomato and Meat, Potato and Meat, turnip, spinach, coffee, tea, chocolate, and yeast. I was shocked but willing to do anything to get rid of my IBS (didn't even occur to me that my diet could be causing my bipolar). After 6 months on the diet my hubby says to me, "um, have you noticed that you are not having mood swings". So I tapered off my drugs. And none of the bipolar symptoms returned. YAY!! It was horrible having to discount your brain as being sick and not being believed by anyone...I still carry the stigma.



So I was still having IBS and huge fatigue, so my GP sends me to an environmental dr (who diagnosed me with Chronic Fatigue). He tells me to go vegan and to go on the yeast-free diet. I lost my prescription for Nystatin so I decided to do the vegan thing first and then taper down on sugar, vinegar and stuff. So I've been doing vegan for 10 days and I've been depressed for about 7 days. I know how strong the link is for me between what I eat and my bipolar so I know that it is caused by the veganism. But why??? What food can I add that will let me stay on this diet and still not go back into that excruciating mood swing place???



Here is some things that might help you:


  • 1.I keep forgetting to take a multivitamin (although I wasn't taking one before)

    For the first time in my entire life, I am not hungry every minute of the day. I have lost about 10 lbs in 10 days

    2. I have been eating mostly stews with vegs, spices, lentils and brown rice

    3. I have been drinking coffee with cream (about the same amount as I was before...still looking for a replacement for the cream) -can't seem to give this up

    4. I have been snacking on fruit (apples and bananas and peaches) and trail mix

    5. My diarrhea has been brutal in the last 5 or 6 days...it is to the point where...well it is really bad (nuff said)

    6. My fatigue has gone from non-existant before going on this diet (I got the appt a year ago so I wasn't going to cancel because I wasn't currently feeling fatigued) to 12 hours a night sleep and still exhausted all the time

    I am trying out a CPAP machine (just in case I have apnea that wasn't found during my 3 sleep studies)



HELP!!! I know I should be taking a multivitamin with b-6 and b-12 in it, but shouldn't I be able to get everything I need in my food?? Is that the answer? I can't add soy in because I know that I have a severe reaction to soy. What is the answer? I can't exercise because it wipes me out for a week if I do...doc said to start real slow and I have been.



God Bless,

COnnie
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#2 Old 10-10-2008, 04:30 AM
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Have you ever been tested for Coeliac Disease? I had similar symptoms (depression, mood swings, IBS symptoms etc). Since going gluten free five years ago I've been really well. I'm still on meds because I'm bi-polar (it doesn't go away, its biological) but the meds work so much better now that I'm actually getting the vitamins and minerals I was lacking before. Untreated Coeliacs are often underweight or rapidly lose weight without trying. I'd get a RAST test done by GP (get tested for gluten antibodies) and if you haven't had one already get a colonoscopy and possibly gastroscopy done to rule out CD.



Reactions to soy - I often get these in soy milk because there's wheat/barley in it that is not disclosed.



Do you get a blister like rash on your hands or face? If so DEF get checked for CD as loads of us get dermatitis herpetiformis from gluten ingestion.



Also fatigue is another symptom. I was virtually bed ridden and literally could not wake up at times.
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#3 Old 10-10-2008, 04:38 AM
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Sorry here's some more info:



Symptoms of coeliac disease:



Symptoms may or may not occur in the digestive system. For example, one person might have diarrhea and abdominal pain, while another person has irritability or depression. In fact, irritability is one of the most common symptoms in children.

Symptoms of celiac disease may include one or more of the following:



* recurring abdominal bloating and pain

* chronic diarrhea

* weight loss

* pale, foul-smelling stool

* unexplained anemia (low count of red blood cells)

* gas

* Osteopenia, bone pain

* behavior changes

* muscle cramps

* fatigue

* delayed growth

* failure to thrive in infants

* pain in the joints

* seizures

* tingling numbness in the legs (from nerve damage)

* pale sores inside the mouth, called aphthus ulcers

* painful skin rash, called dermatitis herpetiformis

* tooth discoloration or loss of enamel

* missed menstrual periods (often because of excessive weight loss)
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#4 Old 10-10-2008, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by thefragile77 View Post

Have you ever been tested for Coeliac Disease? I had similar symptoms (depression, mood swings, IBS symptoms etc). Since going gluten free five years ago I've been really well. I'm still on meds because I'm bi-polar (it doesn't go away, its biological) but the meds work so much better now that I'm actually getting the vitamins and minerals I was lacking before. Untreated Coeliacs are often underweight or rapidly lose weight without trying. I'd get a RAST test done by GP (get tested for gluten antibodies) and if you haven't had one already get a colonoscopy and possibly gastroscopy done to rule out CD.



Reactions to soy - I often get these in soy milk because there's wheat/barley in it that is not disclosed.



Do you get a blister like rash on your hands or face? If so DEF get checked for CD as loads of us get dermatitis herpetiformis from gluten ingestion.



Also fatigue is another symptom. I was virtually bed ridden and literally could not wake up at times.



Yes, actually had the test, but I had been gluten free for a while by then, so either it was negative or wasn't valid. I have been gluten free for about 6 months. And continue to be gluten free even with the vegan...didn't mention this because I didn't want to write war and peace...lol.



Thank you for all the info, Every once in a while I will have Harvey's fries. I think there is probably cross contamination from the breaded chicken, but I have not correlated that with the depression I have now...



I don't think that my bipolar went away. I believe I never had it. I was misdiagnosed. The fact that I haven't had a symptom (repeatedly checked by my pdoc) in 2 years until now (when I had again changed my food) kinda supports that. Of course, ppl don't believe me, but they can never say that they've seen any of the symptoms of bp (except the non-compliance with the drugs).



Connie
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#5 Old 10-10-2008, 08:50 AM
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Um... wow.



I really have no helpful advice except since you continue to "have cream in your coffee" you aren't vegan and even this little bit of animal product in your diet can be skewing the results of any other "test".



So can the coffee. Get OFF the coffee no matter what. You'll feel like crap for a few days but in the end will feel much better.



Anyone with bipolar/depression/mood swings/etc should NOT be adding caffiene to the mix. It's a drug that will affect the reactions of any other drugs you take and affect your body chemistry even if you aren't taking other meds.
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#6 Old 10-10-2008, 09:09 AM
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i think you need to get another prescription for nystatin. sounds like the doc thinks you have a candida problem. you might be having a die-off reaction? also, i'm suprised you weren't told to get right off the coffee. did you get advised to use a probiotic and take a fibre supplement? i don't think its something thats missing from your diet, as much as some stuff thats still in it, and some supportive measures that are missing. i'd go back to the environmental doctor with this. if you're gonna do the diet, you have to do it properly to see results- i know its hard- hang in there.
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#7 Old 10-10-2008, 03:33 PM
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Okay, I've always thought that if you live longer but you were miserable the whole time you were living it wasn't worth it. lol. I have given up everything that was important to me food wise. But I always held back on the coffee. It's not like I need it, if I think it is truly causing the problem I would give it up but...I was drinking coffee before and I didn't encounter depression so why would it now that I am vegan?



About the die-off. Normally I would agree with you but I haven't started to do the yeast elimination diet so no I do not think the yeast is so paranoid that it knows I am about to start a diet that will kill it off. I am so happy I waited to encorporate the yeast elimination diet after I had the vegan thing started.



I am fairly sure that there is something I am missing because of the vegan diet that is causing the depression. I bought some sub-lingual b12 today (but after I opened it I realized that there is milk in it). I took it anyway until I found some that was dairy-free.



Anyway, if anyone has any ideas...would be wonderful to hear something more.



I really want to thank everyone who responded. I want more ideas. I want to understand this. I want to follow my dr's advice and go vegan but I will not give up my mental health to do it. BTDT, NEVER going back.



Blessings,

Connie
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#8 Old 10-10-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sleepingbeauty View Post

And none of the bipolar symptoms returned. YAY!! It was horrible having to discount your brain as being sick and not being believed by anyone...I still carry the stigma.



So I was still having IBS and huge fatigue, so my GP sends me to an environmental dr (who diagnosed me with Chronic Fatigue). He tells me to go vegan and to go on the yeast-free diet. I lost my prescription for Nystatin so I decided to do the vegan thing first and then taper down on sugar, vinegar and stuff.



God Bless,

COnnie



Hi Connie, welcome to the forum. There is some info missing I would like to know, you said your previou sdiet worked for, none of your bipolar symptoms returned, right? But then, you still had IBS and fatigue which is the reason you went to the doctor who then told you to be vegan? But this is where you make an apparent...contradiction in your post. You say you still had fatigue, but later in your post you say fatigue was nonexistant before the vegan diet. Can you clarify?



I looked at what you're eating and it seems like a healthful vegetarian diet.

I think you should go back to what was working to stop your mood swings even if it means not being vegan.
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#9 Old 10-10-2008, 07:44 PM
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I am fairly sure that there is something I am missing because of the vegan diet that is causing the depression.

I would respectfully suggest that you have no way of knowing this. Vegans and non-vegans get depressed alike.



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Originally Posted by sleepingbeauty View Post

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas...would be wonderful to hear something more.

Have your vitamin D levels checked. I've recently read several books about the role of vitamin D, amongst many other things, in depression and other emotional illnesses. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread, and is just as likely to occur in meat eaters as vegans. The only natural source for anyone is the sun, and since people no longer get enough sun exposure, if they do not take a supplement or eat vitamin D fortified foods, they will be deficient, regardless of whether or not they include animal foods in their diets.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#10 Old 10-10-2008, 08:21 PM
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Hi Connie,

I didn't read through the entire thread, so sorry if I repeat some stuff. Short attention span. C:

Anyway, the whole reason I went Vegan in the first place was because I am Bipolar and sick of being medicated and zombified. I can't believe how much it has helped me! But I know everyone's path is different, even if they carry similar burdens. I see in the post above me that it was suggested to have your vitamin D levels checked, and I totally agree. I take Vitamin D tablets and whole Vegan-friendly B vitamins very day, and my lows aren't even a quarter as low as they used to be.

I wish you the very best, and feel free to email me if you would like someone to chat with. C:

-Brandi
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#11 Old 10-10-2008, 08:25 PM
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Anyone with bipolar/depression/mood swings/etc should NOT be adding caffiene to the mix. It's a drug that will affect the reactions of any other drugs you take and affect your body chemistry even if you aren't taking other meds.



This I agree with. I cut out caffeine before I went Vegan, and I noticed a dramatic difference.
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#12 Old 10-10-2008, 08:28 PM
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PS - Are you sure it's Bipolar and not something else? I didn't see any mention of mania.
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#13 Old 10-10-2008, 08:44 PM
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I didn't read the rest of the posts but here is my idea. Losing 10 pounds in 10 days, as well as having terrible diarrhea, and not being fatigued as well as not feeling hungry seems a bit anorexic to me. If you were taking vitamins under those conditions, they would be moving right through you. I am not a doc, but I think a person with normal digestion can get all the vitamins they need from food. Fatty acids are very important to nerve function and I think that a lot of vegans go too "low fat." You don't really think of it, but every time a meat eater eats meat they are also getting a good dose of fat. Nuts, avocado, coconut or peanut-butter. Can you eat them? What about oils like olive oil, flax seed, or walnut oil. It may seem counter intuitive, but they might give you the fat you need to stop losing weight. I have also heard that fat is good for the brain, and mental synopsis. In my naive, and un-schooled mind, I think that elevating fatty foods might help you out.
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#14 Old 10-10-2008, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ElArte View Post

Hi Connie, welcome to the forum. There is some info missing I would like to know, you said your previou sdiet worked for, none of your bipolar symptoms returned, right? But then, you still had IBS and fatigue which is the reason you went to the doctor who then told you to be vegan? But this is where you make an apparent...contradiction in your post. You say you still had fatigue, but later in your post you say fatigue was nonexistant before the vegan diet. Can you clarify?



I looked at what you're eating and it seems like a healthful vegetarian diet.

I think you should go back to what was working to stop your mood swings even if it means not being vegan.



I understand the miscommunication, I live in Canada. When I made the appointment to see the environmental doc, I was in deep fatigue. 14 -15 hours a day sleep. When my appt finally showed, I was sleeping a normal 8. So when I made the appt I had fatigue and IBS. When the appt came I had IBS and no fatigue. When I went on the vegan diet I had fatigue, IBS and depression. I have just started the nystatin and yeast-diet today...



Thanks for your help.



I tried some sublingual b12??? Hubby said my eyes were brighter today...



Connie



P.S. edited to add that another wrinkle is of course the time of year. Maybe my fatigue is tied to the fall??? Anyway...thanks.
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#15 Old 10-10-2008, 11:21 PM
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I would respectfully suggest that you have no way of knowing this. Vegans and non-vegans get depressed alike.



I guess you are right. But when you know you know you know. I know that the diet is causing the problem and I am not looking to blame I am looking for a solution so that I can continue to lose the weight and never to go into that particular place again.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Have your vitamin D levels checked. I've recently read several books about the role of vitamin D, amongst many other things, in depression and other emotional illnesses. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread, and is just as likely to occur in meat eaters as vegans. The only natural source for anyone is the sun, and since people no longer get enough sun exposure, if they do not take a supplement or eat vitamin D fortified foods, they will be deficient, regardless of whether or not they include animal foods in their diets.



My blood is checked quite regularly. No vitamin deficiencies, no thyroid problems, no brain abnormalities, my blood work is always very normal and boring and I'm feeling like I'm dragging around and exhausted.



Connie



P.S. I don't have a vit d pill heading into Thanksgiving weekend but I will add my multi back in and will get some when the turkey (uh, sweet potato is done...lol)
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#16 Old 10-10-2008, 11:26 PM
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This I agree with. I cut out caffeine before I went Vegan, and I noticed a dramatic difference.



I have gone through many instances of giving up caffeine. I use that bambu stuff when I am in a non-caffeine phase...hasn't seemed to make a difference, except possibly to my ibs. Certainly does not cause BP symptoms. But when I was fully bipolar I believe that the coffee sometimes caused me to stay up late and then go manic which broke the depression. I used it to fix what they could not with the drugs. I would give up caffeine if I thought it would help. Okay, I will give it up. Back to the bambu stuff. Yuck. I will let ya'all know if I see a diff.



Connie



P.S. I bought some almond nuts today to see if I could make a cream like stuff. If the cream tastes any good and I add it and stevia to the bambu maybe I will survive
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#17 Old 10-10-2008, 11:42 PM
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I'm sorry if I am treading on toes this is not my intention.



I have every problem under the sun. I am intolerant to almost everything even two veggies: spinach and turnip (I don't know if I included this in the first post). Don't usually include these two because I don't like em so I don't care if they are verboten. I have a long list of illnesses, most dr. diagnosed but a few I have but have not gone through the testing procedure because it just doesn't matter. I have IBS, PCOS, some acid reflux (and a hernia to go with it), bipolar (I don't think I ever had it but was diagnosed with severe type), not diagnosed with apnea but have a CPAP machine just in case (lol), gluten intolerance, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Interstitial Cystitis. So I am not upset that the vegan diet is not working perfectly from the outset. I am looking to see if there is a way to make it work. I suspect I may have more intolerances that I have not discovered yet (possibly corn). I also might be not getting enough vitamins although tests are normal.



So don't think I am attacking your vegan way of life. I'm not doing it for the animal aspect but I respect that some of you are. I am doing it so that I can spend some time with my kids. I am doing it so that I can eventually go back to work. I am doing it so that my husband gets back the woman he married. I want to be well and I will do anything to get there. Even when it doesn't make sense to me. If you can help me, I thank you so much. If you think I am disingenuine and trying to discount your way of life and to promote a meat eating mantra, I'm sorry I have no way to prove it to you. My blog is here if that helps:



http://connies-veggietales.blogspot.com/



Thanks to those who are trying to help...



Blessings,

Connie
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#18 Old 10-10-2008, 11:53 PM
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I didn't read the rest of the posts but here is my idea. Losing 10 pounds in 10 days, as well as having terrible diarrhea, and not being fatigued as well as not feeling hungry seems a bit anorexic to me.... In my naive, and un-schooled mind, I think that elevating fatty foods might help you out.



I would agree with you but I'm 220 lbs...anorexic I am not!!! lol. I get lots of fats. My snacks are trail mix with lots of nuts and baba ganoush with peanut butter (natural). I also cook with oil. It is truly remarkable though. I have been heavy all my life (okay, I was normal when I got married but I was miserable because all I thought about was food) and I would say that I was hungry my whole life until I started this vegan thing. Some people eat because they are emotional eaters. I was eating because I was ALWAYS hungry. ALWAYS. I can't explain it to you. I would wake up and think about breakfast. I'd finish breakfast and think about snack or lunch. You see where I am going here. Most times I was on a diet (anything where I couldn't eat what I wanted when I wanted), I would be miserable. My mom tried to get me to give up a snack when I was 5. I cried for 2 hours straight every day for a week. She gave up and my mom was stubborn.



I think this vegan thing is onto something but there is something off. I don't know what it is.



God Bless,

Connie
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#19 Old 10-11-2008, 12:04 AM
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PS - Are you sure it's Bipolar and not something else? I didn't see any mention of mania.



I was officially diagnosed with Schizo-affective disorder which is bipolar with a little of schizophrenia mixed in because the dr. couldn't narrow it down to just one disease. I have most definitely had mania and depression. When I was suffering from it, I would have 2-3 weeks of mania (triggered by stress, illness, staying up late with kids, coffee, anything) followed by 2-3 weeks (sometimes this only lasted a couple of days) of normalcy followed by months of depression. My fair share of suicide hospital stays. My mania usually stayed to hypomania (painting the whole house at 3AM...) but occasionally I believed that there were bugs all over me and that I needed to be exterminated. My hubby is amazing. He has been my logic when I wasn't able to think things through. Now he is my number one supporter. He notices things that I do not.



God Bless,

Connie



P.S. Right now my hubby is telling me to stop the vegan thing, he is petrified of the depression. It may seem like I am overreacting. A little depression is okay, everyone gets it...not the way I had it. I won't go into it here but it was he11 on earth. And I am very sensitive about using that word. I am going to give it another week but if there is any more depression I will have to give up veganism. My life depends on it (unless I can figure out the trick/key/missing piece of the puzzle).
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#20 Old 10-11-2008, 02:30 AM
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Hi, this is a real quickie, but as far as I'm aware, there is quite a strong ocumented link between low EFA's and all kind of mental health probs., including depression, bi-polar and schizophrenia.



You say that you gat plenty of fats in your diet, but I'd suggest you've got nothing to lose by researching a bit on-line, and potentially giving yourself a high dose supplement for a month or so of a good EFA. Obviously being veggie puts fish oil out of play, but Starflower oil and similar are still valuable.



I'm no skinny girl either and I love my food, but I found taking a high dose of Evening Primrose Oil, helped to balance out my moods.
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#21 Old 10-11-2008, 05:31 AM
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Connie if you ever need to talk about st feel free to pm or email me. Honestly you're not alone. I know its easy to feel that way though. I've always been sick with coeliac, fatigue etc. Its really frustrating and it would be enough to be getting you down just having all those problems. Anyway email is [email protected] if you need an "ear"
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#22 Old 10-11-2008, 10:21 AM
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Hi, this is a real quickie, but as far as I'm aware, there is quite a strong ocumented link between low EFA's and all kind of mental health probs., including depression, bi-polar and schizophrenia.



You say that you gat plenty of fats in your diet, but I'd suggest you've got nothing to lose by researching a bit on-line, and potentially giving yourself a high dose supplement for a month or so of a good EFA. Obviously being veggie puts fish oil out of play, but Starflower oil and similar are still valuable.



I'm no skinny girl either and I love my food, but I found taking a high dose of Evening Primrose Oil, helped to balance out my moods.



I used to take a fish oil pill...didn't seem to help. Don't think that is my problem but it might be others. I will start taking it again...It's not vegan (but that I think is okay)...I'll wait for Tuesday to buy my vitamins (store's closed/really busy due to thanksgiving)



Connie
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#23 Old 10-11-2008, 01:18 PM
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My blood is checked quite regularly. No vitamin deficiencies, no thyroid problems, no brain abnormalities, my blood work is always very normal and boring and I'm feeling like I'm dragging around and exhausted.

Don't forget, though, that the RDAs are the minimum requirements needed to prevent deficiency diseases in the "average" person. You may have a higher requirement than the "average" person, because of your unique biochemistry.

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