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#1 Old 08-28-2008, 10:42 AM
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I have read a few schools of thought on the eating of fish and I know vegetarianism can take different forms. Does anyone choose to eat fish and eggs and just not poultry, pork, or other forms of meat? I have seen this called "Pescatarianism", if it is a true term I do not know. I am choosing not to eat meat for a few reasons, but would like to include some fish in my diet to maintain some lean protein, other than just the meat alternatives. Any thoughts, feedback, suggestions?
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#2 Old 08-28-2008, 10:45 AM
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My thoughts are to not eat fish.
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#3 Old 08-28-2008, 10:49 AM
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I would love to know why you choose to not eat fish. Since I am just learning about all of this, I am always interested in picking people's brains for information.
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#4 Old 08-28-2008, 10:52 AM
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Fish are still animals. Vegetarians do not eat fish. Well, they might eat those little goldfish crackers but that's pretty much the extent of vegetarian fish-eating.
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#5 Old 08-28-2008, 12:32 PM
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www.fishinghurts.com



Athletes that "get by" without eating fish for lean protein:



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=77739
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#6 Old 08-28-2008, 02:36 PM
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well, this is a vegetarian forum so you're not going to find anyone here that -wants- you to eat meat.



you can also eat whatever you like but if you're going to eat fish don't talk about eating it here as it's against the rules.
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#7 Old 08-28-2008, 04:12 PM
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you do not need to rely on fake meat products or tofu for protein. i don't eat any fake meats or tofu, my protein is taken care of by all of the other foods i eat, and i am very athletic and have higher demands than an average person.

i think some of the reason people sometimes consider fish as not meat is due to religion. i was raised Catholic and on Fridays we didn't eat meat, but we always had fish, makes no sense to me (much like the rest of that religion...).

here are some reasons to not eat fish:

fish farms produce large amounts of pollution run off that drains straight into the ocean where the natural fish live, in turn ruining their habitats and killing them witho the chemicals used to keep fish is fish farms "healthy" and clean.

many wild caught fish are being over fished and we are literally running out of certain species.

the ocean continues to be the dumping ground for lots of horrid chemicals that fish absorb that can be translated to you by eating them.
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#8 Old 08-28-2008, 04:28 PM
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Not eating fish because of the polluted waters should be part of the reason and never the only reason. I could only hope that someday the waters are pure again and the fishes can hangout together without being sick. By not contributing to the killing of innocent fish, people also prevent themselves from causing more innocent fish to die and more waters to become polluted. To those who want to quit eating fish: do not just think about what chemicals are going inside your body if you consume the fish. Also think about how many fish lives you save and water you save from being polluted when you do not eat fish.
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#9 Old 08-28-2008, 06:33 PM
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There are plenty of other ways to get protein without having to resort to animal sources. I know it's hard, I am having a hard time giving up fish as well. It's been 5 weeks for me so far without eating all other types of meat, and 1 week without fish.

www.sharksavers.org
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#10 Old 08-28-2008, 06:43 PM
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Just wanted to chime in and say that there are plenty of sources of lean protein- like beans, for example. Add to that that you'll likely have almost no problem getting enough protein when you stop eating meat and start eating other food and fish suddenly becomes pretty easy to give up. Once you know all the facts, that is.



Fish are animals. They have a will to live and seek to avoid suffering just as you and I do. Don't eat them. Check out that site that Mr. Sun posted. Think about it
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#11 Old 08-28-2008, 07:29 PM
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People keep fish as pets. We name them. We notice their personalities. My Jiggles was always the first to go for the food and Hit would just follow her around and contentedly pick at the rest, but they were both goldfish of the same breed from the same shop (maybe even the same parent..)



My point: Apart from the horrors the fishing industry wreaks upon our environment, upon small and large scale ecology, and upon larger and more obviously 'worthwhile to save' animals like dolphins, sharps, porpoises, turtles, etc... And apart from the fact fish, as any animal, is a biomagnifier of toxins and pollutants.* I think the fact we grow so attatched to pet fish should in itself make it pretty darn clear to us that they are living beings.



As for lean protein.



Fish as a Lean Protein:





Protein:Fat is 1.867



Tofu as a Lean Protein:





Protein:Fat is 1.857



Notice--fat to protein ratio pretty similar... Tofu is far from the only substitute that will win this little battle, but its also the easiest to find commonly in restaurants, fast food joints, cookbooks and the supermarket.



Now that we're comparing protein to tofu, lets notice fiber to protein.. tofu has SIGNIFICANTLY more dietary fiber per g protein (over 3 times more). Tofu has no cholesterol, an abundance of calcium and comparable iron. True it's lacking in vitamin A and C, but as a vegetarian I'm assuming you will eat a vegetable at one point in the day and be fine.



*This is a natural occurance that only gets worse the higher up on the foodchain you eat and IS significant. There is a reason why birds die off when DDT is used to spray crops, which the bugs eat and biomagnify), which birds eat and further biomagnify, which raptors eat and die and/or cannot reproduce.







Hope this helps you. Dietary choices, as everyone here knows, is a big choice to make whether its for health, ethical, or even practical reasons. I think I speak on behalf of the vegetarians here when I say we would love to see you become vegetarian and refrain from eating the flesh of our Pisces friends. Welcome to the VB.
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#12 Old 08-29-2008, 02:39 PM
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Thank you ALL for the truly helpful information... I think you have provided such great insight and the educational value I have gotten from you is invaluable. I am realizing that I am making this choice for so many reasons and you have helped enlighten me and have helped me rest even easier with my decision. So far, so good. I am on day three with no meat and no fish and I am doing great! I found http://www.quorn.com/ Quorn products... I was SO SHOCKED and pleasantly surprised about how great the flavor is. It amazes me how far the vegetarian support food industry has come.
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#13 Old 08-29-2008, 04:00 PM
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Yay!
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#14 Old 08-29-2008, 04:55 PM
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I've moved this topic to the "New to Vegetarianism" forum, though it's already progressed nicely.
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#15 Old 08-29-2008, 05:12 PM
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..... I had never seen quorn until now. I am so jealous its not even funny.



Oh, and I'm happy about your choice to give vegetarianism a serious try. Hope to see you around more--we're totally willing to help you out with support, advice, and info best we can.



*runs off to find if anywhere will ship quorn to Canada. First Field Roasts and now this. My jealousy will never end. Ever.*
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#16 Old 08-29-2008, 10:10 PM
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eating fish is NOT vegetarian. Fish are made of muscle tissue which is meat. They dont grow out of the ground. Vegetarians dont eat meat so contrary to popular belief there is no such creature as the mythical fish eating vegetarian.
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#17 Old 08-29-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katt_venus73 View Post

Thank you ALL for the truly helpful information... I think you have provided such great insight and the educational value I have gotten from you is invaluable. I am realizing that I am making this choice for so many reasons and you have helped enlighten me and have helped me rest even easier with my decision. So far, so good. I am on day three with no meat and no fish and I am doing great! I found http://www.quorn.com/ Quorn products... I was SO SHOCKED and pleasantly surprised about how great the flavor is. It amazes me how far the vegetarian support food industry has come.





Congrats on going veggie.. and the thread evolving nicely! lots of great info.



good luck and look forward to seeing you around the board!
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#18 Old 08-30-2008, 03:12 PM
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Well, day four of no meat and I am doing GREAT! I got my hubby to eat an "Amy's" organic low sodium vegetarian frozen organic veggie enchilada last night and he loved it. It is so nice to see frozen meals made healthy that are not full of preservatives and sodium, let alone meat. What a concept, huh? It is a wonder the mainstream frozen food industry stays in business. I guess there are so many types of eaters that the manufacturers can prey on people's weaknesses, mainly food. It disgusts me to see the food that is marketed to the American public and because of the "gotta-have-it-now, gotta-have-it-easy because my life is just so stressful" mentality, fast food is still a main source of "food staple" in the U.S. I have to say that I just don't get it either... Don't mean to sound harsh here, so forgive me, but I don't get the "victims" who say they have no choices with food... our bodies need good, wholesome nourishment, so why do Americans think they have to punish their bodies with garbage, animal fat and preservatives?? I may have digressed from the initial topic here, but I am really enjoying the discussions here.
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#19 Old 08-30-2008, 04:49 PM
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Fish are friends
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#20 Old 08-30-2008, 05:45 PM
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Fish are animals. Why are pigs and cows not OK to eat, but you can eat fish? In my opinion, don't eat ANY animal.
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#21 Old 08-30-2008, 06:58 PM
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Did you know that some fish (like pigs) are smarter then three year old children? Fish have families and lives. Fish may not be able to make noice like humans can, but they can feel pain, feer and suffering just like we can. There is no reason to cut cows and chickens and other animals from your diet, but not fish. People who eat fish are not vegetarian.



There are plenty of ways to get protien without eating fish: nuts, broccoli, tofu, soy etc. Nearly everything containes protien to some degree, small or large.



Did you also know that, on average, meat-consuming Amerians (though I'm not sure what country you are from) bring in waaaay too much protien, which converts into fat and is stored in the body for energy later on. Vegetarians and vegans, however, tend to get just the right amount, with or without meat substitutes.



Massive fishing hurts more then just the animals: the environment is at stake as well. In addition, a handful of people die because of commercial fishing every year.



For more information on fish and why you shouldn't eat them, go to www.fishinghurts.com
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#22 Old 08-31-2008, 04:38 AM
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I couldnt eat my little irie jr, buddy or noobifyer, so why would I eat any other fishies? they are animals too.
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#23 Old 08-31-2008, 04:00 PM
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I'm a pescetarian for both moral and health reasons. From what I've read, the healthiest diet is one that includes wild fish/seafood, whole grains, fruits/vegetables and excludes refined carbohydrates, refined sugar, refined salt (it's almost impossible to not eat some refined salt since they put it in almost all packaged/canned foods), hydrogenated oil and foods high in saturated fat and animal protein. Despite this, if I come across really convincing evidence (based on neuroanatomy and not just behavior) that fish and non-cephalopod invertebrates are probably sentient, I will give up seafood in a second. Vegans are more at risk for becoming deficient in B12 and some omega three fatty acids (DHA and EPA) since ALA (the omega three fatty acid in flax, walnuts etc.) cannot be efficiently converted into DHA or EPA and the only natural source of B12 is meat/animal products (synthesized vitamins aren't as healthy).



From the little I understand about neuroscience, the part of our brain responsible for perceptual awareness is the cerebral cortex and fish lack a true cerebral cortex. When their primitive cerebral hemispheres are removed, they function normally because their behavior is brain stem dominated and not cerebrally dominated like mammalian behavior is. There's as much evidence for non-human mammals, birds and crocodilians being sentient as there is for other humans being sentient. It's debatable as to whether or not cephalopods are sentient because their nervous systems are so different from vertebrate nervous systems are but they do have complicated brains and appear far more intelligent than other invertebrates so I'll avoid eating them, just to be safe.
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#24 Old 08-31-2008, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_African View Post

I'm a pescetarian for both moral and health reasons. From what I've read, the healthiest diet is one that includes wild fish/seafood, whole grains, fruits/vegetables and excludes refined carbohydrates, refined sugar, refined salt (it's almost impossible to not eat some refined salt since they put it in almost all packaged/canned foods), hydrogenated oil and foods high in saturated fat and animal protein. Despite this, if I come across really convincing evidence (based on neuroanatomy and not just behavior) that fish and non-cephalopod invertebrates are probably sentient, I will give up seafood in a second. Vegans are more at risk for becoming deficient in B12 and some omega three fatty acids (DHA and EPA) since ALA (the omega three fatty acid in flax, walnuts etc.) cannot be efficiently converted into DHA or EPA and the only natural source of B12 is meat/animal products (synthesized vitamins aren't as healthy).



From the little I understand about neuroscience, the part of our brain responsible for perceptual awareness is the cerebral cortex and fish lack a true cerebral cortex. When their primitive cerebral hemispheres are removed, they function normally because their behavior is brain stem dominated and not cerebrally dominated like mammalian behavior is. There's as much evidence for non-human mammals, birds and crocodilians being sentient as there is for other humans being sentient. It's debatable as to whether or not cephalopods are sentient because their nervous systems are so different from vertebrate nervous systems are but they do have complicated brains and appear far more intelligent than other invertebrates so I'll avoid eating them, just to be safe.



I've seen you post the same things on peta's forum, and you've been given much evidence that fish do indeed have the neuroanatomy to feel pain. You have chosen to believe that none of the evidence given was credible. I personally don't feel I can find anything more than what was found for you in those threads, so I will leave you to be. This is however a vegetarian forum in which you must be vegetarian or intend to become vegetarian to post, so I don't believe I will be seeing you around too often, unless someone manages to pull up an article even you can't discard...
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#25 Old 09-01-2008, 06:19 AM
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A pescetarian diet is not environmentally feasible, moral, or particularly helpful. Tofu and cheese have just as much protein as fish anyway.



People say fish is healthy. If it is healthy, why is it dead?
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#26 Old 09-01-2008, 07:36 AM
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I'm a pescetarian for...moral and health reasons.



You're kidding, right? I am sure the fish thank you. This is a vegetarian forum... Or am I in the wrong spot.



I don't feel cutting fish open while they're still alive is moral. To me, this is like saying, I only eat chicken for moral reasons, or beef for moral reason. Here I am struggling with still trying to give up eggs... but at least I don't claim to be eating eggs for moral reasons. We'll leave you in peace to your own ideas though.
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#27 Old 09-01-2008, 08:38 AM
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..... I had never seen quorn until now. I am so jealous its not even funny.



Oh, and I'm happy about your choice to give vegetarianism a serious try. Hope to see you around more--we're totally willing to help you out with support, advice, and info best we can.



*runs off to find if anywhere will ship quorn to Canada. First Field Roasts and now this. My jealousy will never end. Ever.*



I wouldn't get too excited if I were you AFAIK all Quorn products contain egg whites, and many of them contain dairy.
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#28 Old 09-01-2008, 08:41 AM
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oh... piss.
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#29 Old 09-01-2008, 08:51 AM
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oh... piss.



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#30 Old 09-01-2008, 08:57 AM
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I wouldn't get too excited if I were you AFAIK all Quorn products contain egg whites, and many of them contain dairy.





Oh, crap. That just sux! Anyway, I see where you are all going with this and I wholeheartedly have NOT eaten any fish since making my decision and the information you have all provided has reassured my decision. So, no fish!
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