Actual killing vs. poor treatment/methods of killing animals? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-21-2007, 06:19 PM
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Hi, sorry for sounding ignorant but I was wondering: are a majority of vegetarians/vegans against simply killing animals to eat (no matter how they are killed/treated) no exceptions, or just against the way the animals are treated and killed?



Thanks,

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#2 Old 12-21-2007, 06:19 PM
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Hi, sorry for sounding ignorant but I was wondering: are a majority of vegetarians/vegans against simply killing animals to eat (no matter how they are killed/treated) no exceptions, or just against the way the animals are treated and killed?



Thanks,

Jenny
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#3 Old 12-21-2007, 06:31 PM
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I believe killing unnecessarily is moral abhorrent.

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#4 Old 12-21-2007, 06:31 PM
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I believe killing unnecessarily is moral abhorrent.

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#5 Old 12-21-2007, 06:37 PM
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Like Kiz, i am opposed to any killing that is not absolutely necessary as well as the way the animals are treated.
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#6 Old 12-21-2007, 06:37 PM
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Like Kiz, i am opposed to any killing that is not absolutely necessary as well as the way the animals are treated.
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#7 Old 12-21-2007, 06:37 PM
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Everyone is different. I don't have a problem with meat, but I do believe animals should be treated humanely.

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#8 Old 12-21-2007, 06:37 PM
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Everyone is different. I don't have a problem with meat, but I do believe animals should be treated humanely.

Lynn

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#9 Old 12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
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Animal Welfare vs. Animal Rights.



AFAIK there are more AW's on veggieboards, and probably in general. Most AR's are vegan so considering there are less of us than other forms there are probably less AR's.
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#10 Old 12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
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Animal Welfare vs. Animal Rights.



AFAIK there are more AW's on veggieboards, and probably in general. Most AR's are vegan so considering there are less of us than other forms there are probably less AR's.
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#11 Old 12-21-2007, 09:11 PM
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I became vegetarian originally because of the cruelty in the way animals are killed. Gradually, I became convinced that eating any animal no matter its treatment is cruelty.
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#12 Old 12-21-2007, 09:11 PM
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I became vegetarian originally because of the cruelty in the way animals are killed. Gradually, I became convinced that eating any animal no matter its treatment is cruelty.
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#13 Old 12-21-2007, 09:50 PM
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I simply believe in the adage that, "Animals are Not Ours to Eat, Wear, or Experiment on."



And the fact that I work with animals on a daily basis ((usually of the canine and feline type)) ...how could I just go home and eat one of their kind? That was a huge revelation for me.

"you know, nowhere in the bible does it say that jesus was not a raptor"


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#14 Old 12-21-2007, 09:50 PM
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I simply believe in the adage that, "Animals are Not Ours to Eat, Wear, or Experiment on."



And the fact that I work with animals on a daily basis ((usually of the canine and feline type)) ...how could I just go home and eat one of their kind? That was a huge revelation for me.

"you know, nowhere in the bible does it say that jesus was not a raptor"


www.animal-adoptions.org

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#15 Old 12-21-2007, 11:24 PM
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When I adopted a vegan-type diet (and read up on it since I wrongly thought I'd be lacking in nutrition) it wasn't because I saw anything wrong with eating meat. In fact, I thought eating meat was totally okay, and natural, but THE WAY WE ARE DOING THINGS NOW IS WRONG....PERIOD!!!



I had plans of raising my own chickens, and buying from locals who had raw milk, beef, pork, etc...and where I could SEE how the animals were being treated...etc...



However...

Once I started eating like a vegan (because I'm too lazy to go find "happy" meat) my perceptions began to change...and I realized that meat eating is NOT necessary, is UNnatural, and very UNhealthy. I'm never going back to meat-eating...no matter how 'happy' the meat is...just because (I'll say it again) it is unnecessary, a waste of our natural resources, and abusive to the environment.

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#16 Old 12-21-2007, 11:24 PM
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When I adopted a vegan-type diet (and read up on it since I wrongly thought I'd be lacking in nutrition) it wasn't because I saw anything wrong with eating meat. In fact, I thought eating meat was totally okay, and natural, but THE WAY WE ARE DOING THINGS NOW IS WRONG....PERIOD!!!



I had plans of raising my own chickens, and buying from locals who had raw milk, beef, pork, etc...and where I could SEE how the animals were being treated...etc...



However...

Once I started eating like a vegan (because I'm too lazy to go find "happy" meat) my perceptions began to change...and I realized that meat eating is NOT necessary, is UNnatural, and very UNhealthy. I'm never going back to meat-eating...no matter how 'happy' the meat is...just because (I'll say it again) it is unnecessary, a waste of our natural resources, and abusive to the environment.

Give thanks to Mother Earth for Her greatest gift...

...gravity.

For without it, we would be lost.
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#17 Old 12-21-2007, 11:59 PM
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I think all exploitation is wrong, animals are not commodities.

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#18 Old 12-21-2007, 11:59 PM
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I think all exploitation is wrong, animals are not commodities.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#19 Old 12-22-2007, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post

I simply believe in the adage that, "Animals are Not Ours to Eat, Wear, or Experiment on."



And the fact that I work with animals on a daily basis ((usually of the canine and feline type)) ...how could I just go home and eat one of their kind? That was a huge revelation for me.



Exactly. When I hear about "free-range farms" and such I wonder if those in favour of those places would feel it's ok to slit the throat of a dog that has been able to run around on the farm. I think most would say no.
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#20 Old 12-22-2007, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post

I simply believe in the adage that, "Animals are Not Ours to Eat, Wear, or Experiment on."



And the fact that I work with animals on a daily basis ((usually of the canine and feline type)) ...how could I just go home and eat one of their kind? That was a huge revelation for me.



Exactly. When I hear about "free-range farms" and such I wonder if those in favour of those places would feel it's ok to slit the throat of a dog that has been able to run around on the farm. I think most would say no.
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#21 Old 12-22-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I think all exploitation is wrong, animals are not commodities.



You can't prove that animals are not commodities.
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#22 Old 12-22-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I think all exploitation is wrong, animals are not commodities.



You can't prove that animals are not commodities.
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#23 Old 12-22-2007, 12:34 AM
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Ultimately, people are not moved by proofs.

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#24 Old 12-22-2007, 12:34 AM
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Ultimately, people are not moved by proofs.

"and I stand

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made of weak and useless men"

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#25 Old 12-22-2007, 01:31 AM
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Oh? Then what moves them? Besides cars and stuff.



I was thinking about this. It seems that anything can become a commodity if enough people in power decide it is. Like when people became a commodity during slavery times. Are you giving your opinion when you say animals are not a commodity?
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#26 Old 12-22-2007, 01:31 AM
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Oh? Then what moves them? Besides cars and stuff.



I was thinking about this. It seems that anything can become a commodity if enough people in power decide it is. Like when people became a commodity during slavery times. Are you giving your opinion when you say animals are not a commodity?
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#27 Old 12-22-2007, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

You can't prove that animals are not commodities.



Is there anything that can be proven though?



Ultimately all our beliefs rest on our assumptions (some may call them opinions). I think people do treat just about everything as commodities, except themselves (although that may be debatable). However, I think it's inconsistent and unreasonable to claim that one sentient life is a commodity and another is not based on some arbitrariness as race or species. Or if one is not prepared to admit that their own self is also a commodity, then I can't see that they can claim that another sentient life is a commodity.

I believe everything.
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#28 Old 12-22-2007, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

You can't prove that animals are not commodities.



Is there anything that can be proven though?



Ultimately all our beliefs rest on our assumptions (some may call them opinions). I think people do treat just about everything as commodities, except themselves (although that may be debatable). However, I think it's inconsistent and unreasonable to claim that one sentient life is a commodity and another is not based on some arbitrariness as race or species. Or if one is not prepared to admit that their own self is also a commodity, then I can't see that they can claim that another sentient life is a commodity.

I believe everything.
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#29 Old 12-22-2007, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

Oh? Then what moves them?

The way they emotionally relate to others, the way they want to identify themselves as a part of different social groups, etc.



Quote:
I was thinking about this. It seems that anything can become a commodity if enough people in power decide it is. Like when people became a commodity during slavery times. Are you giving your opinion when you say animals are not a commodity?

Yes, I'm expressing my ethical view. Of course animals are treated as a commodity -- in a most fundamental manner -- but that does not reflect the moral status I think they have, as inherently valuable individuals.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#30 Old 12-22-2007, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

Oh? Then what moves them?

The way they emotionally relate to others, the way they want to identify themselves as a part of different social groups, etc.



Quote:
I was thinking about this. It seems that anything can become a commodity if enough people in power decide it is. Like when people became a commodity during slavery times. Are you giving your opinion when you say animals are not a commodity?

Yes, I'm expressing my ethical view. Of course animals are treated as a commodity -- in a most fundamental manner -- but that does not reflect the moral status I think they have, as inherently valuable individuals.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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