I dont fit in anywhere!!!! No label fits me! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-05-2007, 10:19 AM
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Notice I don't post as much? There really is nowhere that I fit in. I dont fit in with meat eaters, cause I am appalled at their ignorance, and I dont fit in with vegans cause many of my beliefs are different. Such as I think honey is fine, (sorry bees!), I have no problem with guide dogs for the blind as long as they are given a good retirement life, I have no problem with people raising their own chickens for eggs, and oh gee, I hope ya'll dont jump on me, but I am one who refuses to eat meat based on the practices that are occuring in factory farms, not based on that I think it is wrong to eat meat period. I am in an very angry and sad mood today. Got in a horrible debate on another board. They wrote me off as extremist. But see, I am not extremist on EITHER end and that is why I don't fit in anywhere. I believe extremism goes BOTH ways. So many are extremist in their ignorance (such as meat eaters), and what goes on in factory farms is the most extreme of all! If I had to choose which end of extremism to be on, I'd be on the vegan end of it.



Can somebody just give me a hug? (I say this as tears roll down my face)
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#2 Old 04-05-2007, 10:23 AM
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Awwwwww, it's all good. I think I probably agree with just about everything you said, no worries. Sometimes people get really defensive about eating meat and want to pretend that factory farms are acceptable, and anyone that tells them different is going to be wrong in their mind. Don't be sad, stay true to yourself! Big props for having your own opinion too!
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#3 Old 04-05-2007, 10:24 AM
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you have to remember that the only people in the world AREN'T 'extremists'. I'm sure there are a TON of people on VB who share your beliefs.
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#4 Old 04-05-2007, 10:24 AM
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Big hugs sweetie. We are all doing what is right for us. I am slowly learning, it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Don't let them get to you and you don't have to explain yourself to anyone.
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#5 Old 04-05-2007, 10:49 AM
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Try telling them that you simply view all animals (except bees) in the way that they view dogs and cats.



In my experience it helps to relate actually where the compassion comes from.



And don't expect them to change overnight, but look at it more as the planting of seeds. Pray that the Holy Spirit convict their hearts and open their eyes to what exactly they are doing, if the Lord wills it (talking about that Christian board right?)



As far as here, there are people all over the spectrum. Not every person here is vegetarian, not every vegetarian is vegan, not every vegan is for animal rights, and not everyone for animal rights is for liberation, or absolution. And even those aren't as "extreme" as others. We all vary in varying areas -



It's a good mix, and if we were all the same, where would the discussions come into place? Message boards thrive on conflict of some sort or another. If there was nothing to discuss, there wouldn't be a discussion board.
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#6 Old 04-05-2007, 11:05 AM
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I agree! Just remember that it is okay to believe what you want, and you will never please everyone, It just won't happen! It really dosent matter if anyone else agrees with you or not because YOU are doing what is right for YOU! Don't let them get you down, I am sure you share a lot of the same beliefs as a lot of others here

I think you fit in fine on VB! Like Troub said, there would not be a discussion board if everyone agreed and believed in the same things! *HUGS*
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#7 Old 04-05-2007, 11:10 AM
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You guys are so sweet!!!! *sniff* Thank you! Within only a half-hour and all these compassionate responses! Animal lovers are so compassionate! My grandmother said you can always tell a good man by how he treats animals. I never paid much attention to my husband who was just a guy who went to the same gym as me back then,until I noticed he was missing a few days, and then when he came back he was very quiet and withdrawn. It was obvious he was hurting and sad. I asked someone else if they knew what was wrong. They told me his dog had just died. Now we are very happily married! My husband is just on board with me on this vegan thing as I am if not more. He is very angry about what goes on in factory farms. He just cant get over things such as throwing baby live chicks in the woodchipper live is totally legal. I showed him video of it on the web. We used to eat more eggs when we gave up meat, thinking that helped. Boy we were wrong! The egg industry is HORRIBLE! *shudders*



It is just so awesome to be able to share all these thoughts and find people who actually agree!



I agree Troub it is good to have something to discuss. People need to be willing to learn and not be overly-defensive. And yes, this was at the Christian board. Two people did feel convicted after knowing now where their meat comes from, to be more vegan. I brought awareness to the board about the egg issue as well and that organic milk and free range eggs are a lie. So at least something was accomplished!
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#8 Old 04-05-2007, 11:24 AM
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You are who you are and you believe in what you believe in and that's your business. I don't think you should have to justify your actions to anybody. When/if I mention to someone I'm vegetarian and they come back with the "WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" I just answer back.... "Well, because I want to." And change the subject. It's hard to argue with that. Or, if you are feeling particularly bold that day, say "Well, because I want to. Why do you eat meat? Because you want to." And then change the subject.
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#9 Old 04-05-2007, 12:21 PM
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why do you feel the need to label yourself or fit in at all? you beliefs are yours and just because they don't fit in under some umbrella label isn't a bad thing. actually, it's better because you aren't blindly following the dogma of some "group"



it's not worth crying over a message board for petes sake either.
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#10 Old 04-05-2007, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by scarlet View Post

why do you feel the need to label yourself or fit in at all? you beliefs are yours and just because they don't fit in under some umbrella label isn't a bad thing. actually, it's better because you aren't blindly following the dogma of some "group"



it's not worth crying over a message board for petes sake either.



LOL! Thanks for your sensitivity! hahaha I guess it's not so much the need for a label, but I got attacked so much for what I stand up for, and needed some support and dont know where to go as I wasn't sure if I'd fit in all that well here either. This other board, I was a very active poster at. I have poured my heart and soul over there in the last year. It just really hurt that after all that they just dismissed me so easily.



You make a good point there at the end. My opinions are not based on anybody else's. I have taken the time to figure out on my own wether or not if something sits right with me or not. And if anybody doesn't like it, they can kiss my you know what! Right?
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#11 Old 04-05-2007, 12:37 PM
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Anybody wanna see my post I wrote this morning that they deleted cause they said it was much too angry? I saved it to my documents!
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#12 Old 04-05-2007, 12:52 PM
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Goodness, Emily,

People should be nice! If we were all the same and believed the same thing it would be a boring world. Chin Up, girl!
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#13 Old 04-05-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily~Anne View Post

He just cant get over things such as throwing baby live chicks in the woodchipper live is totally legal.



Quote:
I dont fit in with vegans cause many of my beliefs are different... I have no problem with people raising their own chickens for eggs



The problem is that unless the chickens that people get for their eggs are truly rescues, they are purchasing hens who have been sex selected after birth...and that's why the male chicks are destroyed. Do you see how purchasing hens for eggs is contributing to the problem?



Quote:
I have no problem with guide dogs for the blind as long as they are given a good retirement life



I'd encourage you to research more about the miserable life of many guide dogs. When animals are under the complete control and ownership of humans - many of whom don't even particularly like animals - there is much abuse. It may be surprising to learn there is plenty of abuse in the guide dog industry and these people don't all adore their dogs, and can't or won't provide the things these animals need to be happy. The dogs are also not necessary, and many people don't have them. Do you think that the dogs exist on earth for their own reason (as we do), that they have their own life, or that they exist just to serve humans?



I think it's the same as with farming, people assume that it must be o.k. and they're treated well. But when you look a little deeper, you might be surprised.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#14 Old 04-05-2007, 01:19 PM
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Everyone has a different level of commitment to these sort of issues. I'm a vegetarian, and a meat eater might think i'm a compassionate person, but a vegan might think I am cruel for eating dairy. Not everyone can fit under 'omni', 'veggie' or 'vegan' etc. Its your choice what you believe in

"Be the change you wish to see in the world" ~ Mahatma Gandhi
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#15 Old 04-05-2007, 02:03 PM
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Sure, post what you posted over there if you want. It would be interesting.



I'm definitely not jumping on you, but I cannot bring myself to cause an animal to die so that I can eat him/her- even if s/he was treated well while s/he lived. That puts me outside the Animal Welfare camp. But I sometimes fall short of the full Animal Rights philosophy.

Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.
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#16 Old 04-05-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily~Anne View Post

Anybody wanna see my post I wrote this morning that they deleted cause they said it was much too angry? I saved it to my documents!



I'd be curious.
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#17 Old 04-05-2007, 03:56 PM
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((hugs)) People should try to debate politely and not flame- a person on the internet has feelings and it hurts to read poison pen.



I'm with Irizary on that I think you should read more into why people oppose these other forms of cruelty (eggs and honey and free range meat)which may look harmless on the surface. Listen to some of Professor Gary Francione or Bob and Jenna Torres podcasts for more info.



I think your titles would be beegan(almost vegan but eats honey) or your opinions welfarist(as opposed to abolitionist like myself).
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#18 Old 04-05-2007, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

The problem is that unless the chickens that people get for their eggs are truly rescues, they are purchasing hens who have been sex selected after birth...and that's why the male chicks are destroyed. Do you see how purchasing hens for eggs is contributing to the problem?







I'd encourage you to research more about the miserable life of many guide dogs. When animals are under the complete control and ownership of humans - many of whom don't even particularly like animals - there is much abuse. It may be surprising to learn there is plenty of abuse in the guide dog industry and these people don't all adore their dogs, and can't or won't provide the things these animals need to be happy. The dogs are also not necessary, and many people don't have them. Do you think that the dogs exist on earth for their own reason (as we do), that they have their own life, or that they exist just to serve humans?



I think it's the same as with farming, people assume that it must be o.k. and they're treated well. But when you look a little deeper, you might be surprised.



Thank you for this info. You brought up some very good point sabout raising chickens that I had not thought of.



I was not aware of that about guide dogs. I assumed since the blind person was so dependent on his dog they would have a fierce bond. But I guess that is not always the case huh? Well anyways, I had mentioned guide dogs in that post so please understand as you read it I am still learning. I am gonna go get that post from my documents and post it.
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#19 Old 04-05-2007, 06:03 PM
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This was titled: 'On environmental and animal abuse'



There are some extremists who do maybe go too far on these issues. Environmentalists have made some predictions that have not panned out, some animals activists think we shouldnt even be taking honey from the bees for that is animal cruelty, etc. Some may put their causes above the value of human life. Every single thread here that has talked about these causes, PETA and other extremists are always mentioned. I am sorry, but it boils my blood. I see it as a cop out. Are any of you any less pro-life because of extremists who blow up buildings and etc.? Really, we need to use our own common sense and not look at extremists.



Elizabby gave wonderful ideas on how we can be more green. I think there could be alot more encouragement. Don't worry, I am sure NOONE here at here will turn into an extremist and start murdering people over the issue or anything like that. "I disagree that it will make much of a difference" <---Well gee how encouraging!? Instead of encouragement, we are reminded of the extremists. The extremism goes on both ends ya know. The way how so much is disposable nowadays! That has become very extreme. We even have disposable bibs for babies. Since when is it too much trouble to pack a cloth bib in the diaper bag? The perfect lawns I see all over America I think are extreme. Why do we needs such perfect weed free lawns? Really these extreme choices are expensive and wasteful. Weve been taught eating meat every single day is the norm. Frankly I think America needs to cut waaaay back on meat consumption. And you know what? It isnt an expensive thing to do unless you buy prepackaged vegetarian food. Really, our grocery bill is quite a bit less. Veggies are cheap compared to meat! So are whole grains! I also think we need to deliberately seek out small family farms for eggs and such and raise awareness that we want to support them specifically and would like access to their products specifically cause we dont like what is going on in factory farms, and we would like to support more ethical practices. And I think as Christians we need to care more about this and make ourselves aware of where our food comes from.



When I talk about absolutely horrendous practices that are happening with livestock that are downright cruel no matter how you look at it, it infuriates me when someone comes on and says in response to that, Remember, God put us above animals. GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats hardly makes what is going on in factory farms acceptable! Talk about IGNORANCE on a phenomenal level!!!!! Do some googling and watch a video of baby chicks being thrown in a wood chipper live and see if you can still tell yourself that at the same time. Yes, we are definitely created to be above animals and have dominion of them, but do NOT mention this argument in response to animal torture done out of greed. It is insulting! If someone were to start a topic objecting to the use of guide dogs for the blind or something like that, THEN is the time to bring up that argument!!!



You know what? Dont look at extremists. Dont let them affect the choices you make either way. I am sure you are not any less pro life because of what pro life extremists do.



Educate yourself! Find out for yourself what is going on and what you can do to help. I am sure none of us here are going to resort to such disgusting tactics as PETA does!



I really dont know what I am as what I would be labeled as to wether or not me and my family are vegan, vegetarian, etc. Frankly those labels have turned into a very bad thing. Yall have jumped to your own conclusions about me. Yall have assumed that I am anti ALL farms (WRONG!), and that I put animals on a higher level as us (agaiiiiiinnnnnnn-W-R-O-N-G!) Frankly me and my family do not fit in with hardly anybody as far as our eating practices. We use common sense and we do not turn a blind eye to what is going on in factory farms and the environment. I dont know enough about global warming to even have an opinion on it, and wether or not it is true, I choose to have respect for this earth that God created for us as long as we are here. And for your information, I think population control is a dumb idea. God will provide for our needs, we just should not be idiots about it and be wasteful. And we need to ENCOURAGE those who admonish us in these areas, rather than mention how the extremists are wrong. I think every single one of us here at CHF knows that all forms of extremism are wrong. And I do think ignorance has become an extremism of its own in response to resisting the extremists on the other end. Educate yourself and make your own choices, dont turn a blind eye. This is something I am passionate about and seek to raise awareness of. And I would appreciate some encouragement from my sista chicks.
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#20 Old 04-05-2007, 06:12 PM
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You sound a lot like me, and if you really wanted a label, I think the most accurate would be "Ovo-Vegetarian", because you still eat eggs. You didn't mention dairy (that I read?), I'm an o-veg technically, I stay away from all meats and all dairy because I hold the belief that they are detrimental to my health, but I eat eggs, free-range organics of course, because I still think chicken eggs are acceptable, considering that the chickens are taken care of.
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#21 Old 04-05-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily~Anne View Post

This was titled: 'On environmental and animal abuse'

(I didn't quote the whole thing because that would probably murder the length of the thread, you know?)



I totally agree with your post. Most totally. I really don't enjoy PETA, they're like non-killing terrorists. Their tactics are way too extreme for me, like the people who are against abortions holding huge signs of dead fetuses on the side fo the road- that gets them nowhere, enrages people who don't agree, and makes other people want to vomit in the passengers seat. Hey! Let's scar people for life! Woot!!!

Unforunatly, it's the only way they believe that can make a difference, we don't live in a perfect word were everyone can hammer out their differences and agree to disagree.
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#22 Old 04-05-2007, 06:21 PM
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You sound a lot like me, and if you really wanted a label, I think the most accurate would be "Ovo-Vegetarian", because you still eat eggs. You didn't mention dairy (that I read?), I'm an o-veg technically, I stay away from all meats and all dairy because I hold the belief that they are detrimental to my health, but I eat eggs, free-range organics of course, because I still think chicken eggs are acceptable, considering that the chickens are taken care of.





Whoops, misunderstanding here. I just found out a few days ago that free range eggs are a lie and have given up eggs at the moment. However there is an amish community about anhour from here and they let their chickens run around free. We may buy some eggs from them next time we are in their area.



I totally agree with you that meat is detrimental to our health. It is too slow digesting and our body absorbs all sorts of nasty stuff rom it in the process.



As far as dairy, I am particularly upset about what happens with male calves, so I don't do dairy anymore.



I am interested in learning more about Irazary said in his above post about raising chickens.



I'll be right back with a link about the eggs.



http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html
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#23 Old 04-05-2007, 07:03 PM
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LOL! Thanks for your sensitivity! hahaha I guess it's not so much the need for a label, but I got attacked so much for what I stand up for, and needed some support and dont know where to go as I wasn't sure if I'd fit in all that well here either. This other board, I was a very active poster at. I have poured my heart and soul over there in the last year. It just really hurt that after all that they just dismissed me so easily.



You make a good point there at the end. My opinions are not based on anybody else's. I have taken the time to figure out on my own wether or not if something sits right with me or not. And if anybody doesn't like it, they can kiss my you know what! Right?



IME, people will attack you no matter what you believe. to the uber vegans you'll never be vegan enough, to the vegetarians you'll be an extremist, blah blah blah. so i say screw em. who cares what they think?



besides, labels seperate. we need less labels, not more.
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#24 Old 04-05-2007, 07:15 PM
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You guys really got me thinking about labels the other day (in another forum). I was thinking about the purpose of labels and how they themselves are pretty harmless things just designed to organize things and make things easier for our brain to understand. I think perhaps labels are best left to simple things. I would say people and beliefs can be complex, so it's best to take care with labels and keep an open mind about them.



For example:

"Would you like this hamburger?"

"No thanks, I don't eat hamburgers"

"Would you like this egg salad then?"

"No thanks, I don't eat eggs."

Would you like this glass of milk?"

"No thanks, I don't drink milk"

"would you like....." etc etc etc



It's easier for me, and the other person, if I would just say "No thanks, I'm vegan." (well, the word 'easy' might be debated here )



Where it gets sticky with people is that some people think all vegans are kooks. Some people think all vegans hold animals in higher regard than humans. Some people think vegans eat fish. Some people think vegans eat honey and are nutballs if they don't!



I believe that we should consider ourselves part of a "new" culture. Wherever there is a minority there seems to be a pressure for everyone to "represent." Represent us all and represent us well. I think a lot of people don't like PETA because of the things that are associated with them, might eventually be associated with us and so on...So I understand when people get all up in arms if they feel someone is misrepresenting something they probably struggle with every day. (Rather than say "you are bad/good for reacting that way or saying that! I ask myself, does it make sense that the person reacted in that way or said that?....fyi, usually the answer is YES)



I definitely agree that it isn't what you say, it's how you say it. This board has helped me many a time when I was feeling overwhelmed, and there are times I have felt attacked (so I sympathize with you, Emily-Anne) as well. Obviously the good times have outweighed the bad and that's why I still come here. I think we come here for support, to share ideas, to voice opinions and frustrations. If sometimes we get frustrated with each other, I think that's okay. If people want to label me, I think that's fine and can only hope they start a discussion with me because then I might change their idea of that label, and my ideas of their label may change as well.



Our brains are constantly trying to make sense of things, and put images and things and people into compartments ALL OF THE TIME, whether we are aware of it or not. It's hard to think that we might be squeezed to fit into any category, since each of us has had very different experiences. But we should be busy trying to figure out each other's experiences and learn from them than instantly discredit someone for their experiences. Labels can be good things, if we ALLOW them to be good things. In the pretend conversation above, saying I'm vegan would make things easier, but would be made better if the person asked me about veganism itself (because who knows what their ideas of veganism are).



When, after someone finds out I am a vegan, someone rolls their eyes and says "Well, you are a kook and all vegans are loons" I want to press them and ask "Okay, so I'm a kook (since maybe that's easier for them), but how do you feel about the studies that claim pigs are as smart/smarter than your dog?" Let's not forget the point, as often people do. Isn't there some saying about when you point your finger to show the moon, some people only see your finger? Or Can't see the forest for the trees or some such thing?



Goodness, I'm rambling. I'm just saying, let's not forget our commonalities. I believe there is a way to celebrate our differences while working toward the same goal! Let's focus on that (crying is okay too )!
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#25 Old 04-05-2007, 07:52 PM
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I don't eat meat cause its healthier without it, I do feel passionate towards animals but what can I do. I go eat w/ friends and they get burgers and chicken and it doesn't bother me any cause well thats them not me so I don't care what they eat. I don't mind honey either I guess, but I also try not to kill anything on purpose (bugs, pest, things like that) but use inscecticide on ants. So yeah go figure. Oh I also have a leather watch.
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#26 Old 04-05-2007, 08:28 PM
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hi there. really, don't feel bad or feel that you have to fit into someone else's category of what they think a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle should be, or what you should think or believe or whatever! seriously....I'm totally against factory farming, but I'm not opposed to any and all consumption of meat. but you can't deny that in America, food consumption is totally out of control...people don't even eat real food anymore! they don't even know what they're eating! it's too much of everything. if you think about it, this mass-produced, processed-food mess we're in didn't occur until post-WWII. so our great-grandparents, for example, would've had to either grow their own stuff or buy from local small farms.



now I'm mostly-dietary-vegan for health reasons and because, well, I'd like to live a long and healthy life! after all, I'm the one who has to live in this body. I'm sure there are those who would criticize my personal reasons for eating the way I do, but who cares? I also eat honey and don't think there's anything wrong with it. I buy leather (not inviting debate here, just sayin'), but I'm choosing to get back to a healthier diet, which means I'm not going to eat meat or milk products anymore. bam, that's it. you don't have to justify anything to anyone.



it's upsetting that someone on another board made you feel like your reasons or motivations weren't good enough or valid! ugh. I can guess which board you were on as I am a refugee from another more militant board myself and have a feeling it's the same one.



the point is that we're each doing what we feel is best for ourselves. some people say they don't care about their own health, only the animals. some say it's for health reasons, some environmental. whatever the reason, the end result is that our choices will benefit the animals and environment anyway! so that should make even the most militant vegan happy, right?!
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#27 Old 04-05-2007, 09:33 PM
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Hi Emily-Anne,



Take a look at the first and third posts on this link...they may give you some things to think about in terms of seeing-eye dogs...



http://www.animalsuffering.com/forum...p?t=7&start=75

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#28 Old 04-05-2007, 09:47 PM
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Hi Emily-Anne,



Take a look at the first and third posts on this link...they may give you some things to think about in terms of seeing-eye dogs...



http://www.animalsuffering.com/forum...p?t=7&start=75

Thank you for the link, it surprised me.
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#29 Old 04-10-2007, 12:38 PM
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*biiiiiiiiig squeeeeeeeeeezey hugs and a cup of tea (with soya milk )*
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#30 Old 04-12-2007, 01:13 PM
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.....take a deep breath and relax, for sure.

there's nothing that states what a vegetarian should or shouldn't believe in. after all, that wouldn't be really going in line with what most people initially believe that gives them the kick to go veg. it's about doing what's right to you, not anyone else. so if you don't believe in certain things, with time you may find you change to be more comfortable in what you do believe. it's best that you're sure of what you believe than to be lukewarm in something you know you only half believe.



why get bent over the fact that you don't fit in with anyone? there's no one who can judge you. if there's anyone here who places judgment on you, then i'd be really surprised. if nothing else, i'd expect people interested in animal rights to have an open mind. otherwise, we're using the same tactic as the people who oppress these ideas we hold so near and dear.
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