Help With Honey Debate - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-18-2006, 07:50 PM
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I know someone who is very opinionated and asked me if, since I am going vegan I will eat honey. I said no, and he replied to me with all of this information of how it doesn't hurt the bees, and by "smoking" them out it actually relaxes them. I don't always have a fresh knowledge of everything that goes on in the processing of getting honey from a hive, and since he swears he's seen it firsthand how can I possibly argue with him? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, this is a person who is vegetarian (or wait, actually pescatarian but he considers himself vegetarian) and is very liberal and democratic but believes hippies should die because they are druggies. I mean, come on!!
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#2 Old 05-18-2006, 07:59 PM
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A vegan does not eat any animal products it really is that simple.

If you eat animal products such as honey, milk, eggs your are a vegetarian not a vegan. So more or less how it is gathered dosnt matter , it is still an animal product.



oh and at him eating fish and still calling himself a vegetarian!

Fish is meat argggggggggg
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#3 Old 05-18-2006, 08:00 PM
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Sounds like that person will try to poke holes in any argument you present. Also, they have already proven to be illogical, misinformed and judgemental to begin with, so why bother? In thier mind, they will always be right anyway, so is it really worth the grapple?



As far as honey goes, do a search under "honey" and too many threads will pop up



Here's some good info in the meantime :



http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj96nov/bee.htm

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#4 Old 05-18-2006, 09:54 PM
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practicing ctrl+v skills:







Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com View Post


veg·an



A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals, as fur or leather.



Honey Bee:

Animalia Arthropoda Insecta Hymenoptera Apidae Apis mellifera







why honey is not vegan
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#5 Old 05-19-2006, 03:15 AM
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Usually the queen is deliberately killed and replaced at least every couple years. And apparently the process of getting the bees out of the hive and removing the honey usually crushes some bees.



see this: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/ani...ation/bees.php

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#6 Old 05-19-2006, 08:05 AM
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I try to use the analogy that honey is food that bees work really hard to make. It is highly nutritious food they make to sustain themselves through the long winter. People steal their honey and then replace it with cheap sugar water. This would be like me spending hours cooking a fantastic, healthy meal and someone stealing it and giving me wonder bread and Kool Aid in it's place. I would be very upset. This is food they make to feed themselves just as cows make milk to feed calves and it is not my place to take that away.

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#7 Old 07-14-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergrrl View Post

I try to use the analogy that honey is food that bees work really hard to make. It is highly nutritious food they make to sustain themselves through the long winter. People steal their honey and then replace it with cheap sugar water. This would be like me spending hours cooking a fantastic, healthy meal and someone stealing it and giving me wonder bread and Kool Aid in it's place. I would be very upset. This is food they make to feed themselves just as cows make milk to feed calves and it is not my place to take that away.



ok .. this makes the most sense to me THANKS!
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#8 Old 07-15-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Usually the queen is deliberately killed and replaced at least every couple years. And apparently the process of getting the bees out of the hive and removing the honey usually crushes some bees.





Workers (sterile females) live 42-56 days, drones (fertile males) live about fifty days and queens live up to four years. Workers lives are shorter during heavy honey flow (lots of nectar around) as they work themselves to death. Their wings get all raggedy and they can no longer fly. Drones do no work, they are bigger than the worker bees who raise and feed them and their only function is to mate with queens from distant hives...If they are successful in mating with a passing queen the mating act kills them by detaching their reason for existence on completion of the act and if they are not lucky in love they are kicked out to die at the end of the mating season!



From: http://www.bees-online.com/Stung.htm



The moral of the story: More bees are killed by the bees than by the bee keepers.
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#9 Old 07-15-2006, 12:40 PM
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thats a perfect reason to steal the food they work so hard to get. >.>





Imagine an alien species landed on earth. They have such an advanced cognitive level that our thought processes seem nothing more just minor missfirings of nuerons, we are the insects to their transcended minds.

With this argument it would be perfectly fine for them to farm us, to steal the things we work hard to produce, and if a few of us die, thats fine, because humans kill more humans then the aliens would.
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#10 Old 07-15-2006, 01:38 PM
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Bees and humans aren't even moderately comparable.

They likely don't get "upset" when their food is replaced. I understand why vegans don't eat honey, but I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that bees are upset when their food is replaced.



Here's a "how-to" guide on creating your own apiary.



http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/sanders88.html



I think it pretty much addresses how small bee farms are set up and what happens. If you are going to buy honey, I'd suggest going with local honey. Unfiltered, if possible.
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#11 Old 07-16-2006, 05:04 AM
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A few bees die in the process of obtaining honey, from what I've seen of it. After all, they get all over things, it's inevitable that some will get squashed. Some of the daft things drown in honey.



Having said that, I don't care if you squash them.
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#12 Old 08-28-2008, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergrrl View Post

I try to use the analogy that honey is food that bees work really hard to make. It is highly nutritious food they make to sustain themselves through the long winter. People steal their honey and then replace it with cheap sugar water. This would be like me spending hours cooking a fantastic, healthy meal and someone stealing it and giving me wonder bread and Kool Aid in it's place. I would be very upset. This is food they make to feed themselves just as cows make milk to feed calves and it is not my place to take that away.



clever, i love your analogy

definitely have to keep that in mind



when people try to argue with me about not drinking milk i politely ask them "what animal drinks milk as an adult?" ha.
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#13 Old 08-29-2008, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikisstrees View Post

I know someone who is very opinionated and asked me if, since I am going vegan I will eat honey. I said no, and he replied to me with all of this information of how it doesn't hurt the bees, and by "smoking" them out it actually relaxes them.



HAHAHAHAHA.

HAHAHAHAHHAHA.

Don't you love it when opinionated people are misinformed?

Smoking the bees out does relax them, because it gives them brain damage.

hahahahaha.
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#14 Old 08-29-2008, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergrrl View Post

This would be like me spending hours cooking a fantastic, healthy meal and someone stealing it and giving me wonder bread and Kool Aid in it's place. I would be very upset.



I don't get it. You're saying it's like someone breaking into my house and stealing my dinner of wonder bread and kool aid and taking it to your house and giving you my dinner and then stealing your dinner... what? Are you saying that you prepare better meals than I do? That's insulting!!
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#15 Old 08-29-2008, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

I don't get it. You're saying it's like someone breaking into my house and stealing my dinner of wonder bread and kool aid and taking it to your house and giving you my dinner and then stealing your dinner... what? Are you saying that you prepare better meals than I do? That's insulting!!



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#16 Old 08-29-2008, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Martini View Post

They likely don't get "upset" when their food is replaced. I understand why vegans don't eat honey, but I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that bees are upset when their food is replaced.



Since this thread has been revived..



they certainly ARE upset by the process of stealing their honey. How do you think that process happens?

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#17 Old 08-29-2008, 02:45 AM
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honey is an animal product and vegans dont eat animals products. End of story. as for him calling himself a vegetarian even tho he eats fish oh well hes an s**twit anyway you can tell that just by this comment....





Quote:
believes hippies should die because they are druggies

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#18 Old 08-29-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinnesshero View Post

believes hippies should die because they are druggies



where is this quote from?



-oh and good job on the couple year bump headxbanger
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#19 Old 08-29-2008, 07:11 AM
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Bees are killed and harmed in both small scale and commercial honey gathering:



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/blog.php?b=226



Also, bees are incredibly awesome ^_^
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#20 Old 08-29-2008, 08:23 AM
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Hows about because the bees aren't baking the honey for us, they're making it for themselves. :P Or because you're grossed out because the bees regurgitated to make it. Or just because vegans don't eat honey, regardless of how the bees are treated.

http://megatarian.blogspot.com
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#21 Old 08-29-2008, 08:43 AM
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I just wrote this:



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...&postcount=443





in the vegan forum, hope it helps a bit.
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#22 Old 08-29-2008, 05:30 PM
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first of all... smoke 'relaxes' us too--why do you think people pass out in house fires and burn alive? Gotta say, I've never enjoyed being in a smoky room, but yeah it does start to make me drowsy. I dont think relaxing and suffocating are quite the same thing.



second of all... seriously, why is he even trying? Is honey a vital part of your diet?



PS. Agave nectar is a great honey sub, if honey IS a part of your diet...
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#23 Old 08-30-2008, 10:39 AM
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Honey is pretty easy to avoid.I am not vegan but I try and avoid honey and to tell the truth I havent had to do much.
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#24 Old 08-30-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyness View Post

Honey is pretty easy to avoid.



Any food is easy to avoid.



I do agree with you of course that not eating honey is not particularly difficult. It's not like you need a degree in quantum physics or something.
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