Why I might not become Vegetarian - Page 4 - VeggieBoards
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#91 Old 05-12-2013, 11:16 AM
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Hi again. Just to clarify, it wasn't a statement of anything or a strop or anything like that. I have pretty much been told 'come back when you are a vegetarian'. As a newcomer, what do you think that means other than 'b*gger off'?
I have never trolled or wasted my time on message boards and aren't starting now.
That, is definitely my last word on the matter.
Hi, in case you pop in to read, there is a good reason to keep this forum for veggies and those transitioning. The level of hostility by meat trolls against vegans is alarming. Read any pro-vegan article's comments on any site that doesn't censor offensive comments. A bunch of duckhunters trolled and nearly took over this board years ago. Tell.someone you know that you have a vegan friend and see how they react.

No one is accusing you of being a troll; your posts were not trollish. I feel the mods have to keep the rules in effect for all posters or they would be ineffective.

Hope to see you posting here in the future looking for a good veggie burger (gardein brand is, btw.smiley.gif )
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#92 Old 05-12-2013, 06:55 PM
 
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Seems to me that he was transitioning to vegetarianism... just probably was going to take a longer time on average to make the transition.

 

While I understand and respect the decision to keep people who eat meat and have no interest in changing from posting here, it is a bit confusing to have a transitioning to vegetarianism forum... especially when people transition in their own ways and not everyone will agree with them all. Like if someone wanted to slowly phase out all meat so it takes a year before they're completely vegetarian? Would they be welcome?

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#93 Old 05-12-2013, 08:15 PM
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Seems to me that he was transitioning to vegetarianism... just probably was going to take a longer time on average to make the transition.

 

While I understand and respect the decision to keep people who eat meat and have no interest in changing from posting here, it is a bit confusing to have a transitioning to vegetarianism forum... especially when people transition in their own ways and not everyone will agree with them all. Like if someone wanted to slowly phase out all meat so it takes a year before they're completely vegetarian? Would they be welcome?

 

The purpose of the Transitioning To Vegetarian forum is to provide a place for people who have something like a commitment to going full veggie get help and support doing so. We don't necessarily like excluding non-vegetarians from the boards, but we know that unless we do, we'll open ourselves to rampant trolling and perpetual philosophical "warfare." Part of our purpose is to provide a refuge- a safe haven- for vegetarians, vegans and other non meat-eaters, where they can get away from the pressures of a meat-eating society. I'm not suggesting that johnoco has been trolling; however, he hasn't actually asked for any help- he's merely asked our opinions and said, in effect, he'll do whatever he likes. He doesn't need our permission to continue eating meat, so in a way, I wonder why he bothered signing up. As far as I'm concerned, he can continue to post here. I hope he does, and hopefully he might see the value of making the commitment, and come to understand that an individual like himself CAN make a difference. As far as I know, there is no time limit set for making the transition.

 

In a way, the Transitioning To Vegetarian forum is a compromise between those who would have VB membership open to everyone, and those who would make it completely exclusive. It provides at least some access to the boards for those who are still eating meat.

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#94 Old 05-13-2013, 02:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

Hi, in case you pop in to read, there is a good reason to keep this forum for veggies and those transitioning. The level of hostility by meat trolls against vegans is alarming. Read any pro-vegan article's comments on any site that doesn't censor offensive comments. A bunch of duckhunters trolled and nearly took over this board years ago. Tell.someone you know that you have a vegan friend and see how they react.

No one is accusing you of being a troll; your posts were not trollish. I feel the mods have to keep the rules in effect for all posters or they would be ineffective.

Hope to see you posting here in the future looking for a good veggie burger (gardein brand is, btw.smiley.gif )

Hi again (I got a reminder via email about this thread)
After reading your comments, I can appreciate why you maybe need to keep the board for vegetarians only, I hadn't taken into account the abusive element, as I said I was genuinely enquiring what I might do. Not just trying to argue.

I reckon I will post here again, perhaps when I have had a serious thought about making the move fully? But either way I will give up meat....as I say, I see that as the major driving force for change. smiley.gif
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#95 Old 05-13-2013, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnoco View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

Hi, in case you pop in to read, there is a good reason to keep this forum for veggies and those transitioning. The level of hostility by meat trolls against vegans is alarming. Read any pro-vegan article's comments on any site that doesn't censor offensive comments. A bunch of duckhunters trolled and nearly took over this board years ago. Tell.someone you know that you have a vegan friend and see how they react.

No one is accusing you of being a troll; your posts were not trollish. I feel the mods have to keep the rules in effect for all posters or they would be ineffective.

Hope to see you posting here in the future looking for a good veggie burger (gardein brand is, btw.smiley.gif )

Hi again (I got a reminder via email about this thread)
After reading your comments, I can appreciate why you maybe need to keep the board for vegetarians only, I hadn't taken into account the abusive element, as I said I was genuinely enquiring what I might do. Not just trying to argue.

I reckon I will post here again, perhaps when I have had a serious thought about making the move fully? But either way I will give up meat....as I say, I see that as the major driving force for change. smiley.gif
Yay, and I'm glad you weren't put off about giving up meat. If you like to cook, try some recipes on chefchloe.com as they always turn out delicious for me. Good luck. smiley.gif
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#96 Old 05-13-2013, 08:26 AM
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Just to clarify to Jennifer, I have already cut down meat considerably, I *am* thinking of becoming a vegetarian. I just wanted to get a feel of vegetarians attitude to someone who maybe started out a bit non commital.

Anyway I will keep doing as I do. Unless you are implying I am not welcome?

 

I'm implying no such thing if you're thinking of going vegetarian. I just wasn't sure you were thinking of going veg and so, being a mod, I felt like I wanted to clarify the situation in order to keep with VB rules. 

 

Here's a quick and dirty run-down to see if this is a good forum for you (or anyone):

 

1) You're truly thinking of transitioning to vegetarian - yes, this is a good place to get advice and support. 

 

2) You want to cut out some meat for the rest of your life, say participate in meatless Monday or no meat before 5 BUT still want to eat meat ongoing forever - no, this isn't the best forum for you because you're not planning on going veg anytime soon. 

 

3) You continue to eat meat while coming here and posting about why you want us to convience you to go vegetarian - no, because if you join VeggieBoards, we assume you have an inkling that you will be going vegetarian. This isn't a place to debate WHY you should go vegetarian (ongoing), this is a place to get support TO GO vegetarian. 

 

You can join up if you're considering vegetarian (or vegan), even if you're still eating meat. You simply have to have an intention to stop. The reason we have rules like this is because there have been members here who continued to eat meat for years with apparently zero intention of going veg, which makes no sense.

 

Based on your intent that you've clarified, I personally think you DO belong here.  I think a vegetarian board like this is the perfect place for someone who is still eating meat but who is really planning to go veg, because the boards can really help you figure out how to go veg and stick with it. 

 

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Originally Posted by La Grenouille View Post

I thought the “Transitioning to Vegetarian” was there to help those who want to become vegetarians? Looked to me that's what Johnoco is trying to do. He may go at slowly at first, but isn't is what transition is all about?

 

This is smack on. 

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Originally Posted by Johnoco View Post

Hi again. Just to clarify, it wasn't a statement of anything or a strop or anything like that. I have pretty much been told 'come back when you are a vegetarian'. As a newcomer, what do you think that means other than 'b*gger off'?
I have never trolled or wasted my time on message boards and aren't starting now.
That, is definitely my last word on the matter.

 

If you feel like you've been told to come back when you're veg, that sucks, because again, you can hang out so long as you have real intent to go veg (re: our rules). 


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#97 Old 05-13-2013, 10:59 AM
 
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Perhaps I should have posted on this thread earlier but I tend to just read and absorb, not chat. :-) Kind of nervous about posting, really.

 

I guess you could say I am in a similar place as the OP (maybe a bit farther along)--I haven't had meat for almost 6 months, and I have seriously cut down on eggs and dairy. I would like to reduce even more but I am moving at a pace that works for me and my family.

 

One thing I haven't done much of (if any) is read labels for animal byproducts and trace ingredients. Have I had a marshmallow? Yes. Did I have a marshmallow wrapped in bacon? No. I know to some (perhaps all) of you the marshmallow IS THE SAME as the bacon, but to me, at this point, it is not. I may get to the point where I start reading labels for D3 or calling companies about what's in the natural flavorings, but I am not there yet. I will add that my reasons for changing my diet were 1) not really enjoying/liking meat anymore 2) wanted to boost my intake of vegetables and fruit and getting rid of the meat did that 3) I saw Forks over Knives and Vegucated

 

I have read many many threads here (some going back 7 years) on vegans, l-o vegetarians, AR, AW, health vegetarians, Alicia Silverstone, the ethics of cars/computers/oysters, honey and more honey until my head is spinning. The diversity of opinions, the passion with which they are delivered, and the sheer number of them can make this lifestyle change  seem extremely overwhelming (not impossible, but certainly daunting). I have learned so much and know so much more but for me it is taking time to process and implement.

 

So right now, not eating beef or pork or chicken or fish, cutting way down on eggs and dairy, and considering that my personal success for today is where I'm at. I may be somewhere further along the journey tomorrow or in 3 months (eventually I would like to be dairy and egg free), but that's where my transition stands today. I don't know what I would be called---to most omnis I know I am a vegetarian since I don't eat meat, but here I don't think I am because I don't check the cheese label and toast a marshmallow once in while?

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#98 Old 05-13-2013, 11:23 AM
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So right now, not eating beef or pork or chicken or fish, cutting way down on eggs and dairy, and considering that my personal success for today is where I'm at. I may be somewhere further along the journey tomorrow or in 3 months (eventually I would like to be dairy and egg free), but that's where my transition stands today. I don't know what I would be called---to most omnis I know I am a vegetarian since I don't eat meat, but here I don't think I am because I don't check the cheese label and toast a marshmallow once in while?

You've been vegetarian ever since you stopped eating meat and fish. Past that it's optional fine-tuning. Virtually any vegetarian would tell you the same.

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#99 Old 05-13-2013, 02:27 PM
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I eat what looks vegan, because while my college has probably a decent variety of vegan options, they aren't always good and the tags that label food vegan are usually placed around obvious things like green beens...it's l like thanks....I needed help knowing that the green beens were vegan........ Most people in my vegetarian/vegan club are more strict though and actually avoid many of the breads that contain animal monoglycerides or something or the vegans avoid stuff if the burrito wrap contains a little bit of casein. I personally don't but because it's more so difficult to get food that is entirely vegan in college on a meal plan. I think just avoiding the main, obvious ingredients does a lot more good.I don't really argue with the group memebers on it, nor do I mention my own line I draw because I figure there is nothing wrong with them being super strict about it.. I still end up promoting the veg foods on campus, so it's a plus.

 

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Thanks but its unlikely. I'll still stop eating meat but not worry about anyones opinion. Thanks and bye all

 

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Some people just want to keep making excuses I guess to have meat once in awhile. o.o

...and the difference is what?

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#100 Old 05-13-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by khaleesi03 View Post

 

So right now, not eating beef or pork or chicken or fish, cutting way down on eggs and dairy, and considering that my personal success for today is where I'm at. I may be somewhere further along the journey tomorrow or in 3 months (eventually I would like to be dairy and egg free), but that's where my transition stands today. I don't know what I would be called---to most omnis I know I am a vegetarian since I don't eat meat, but here I don't think I am because I don't check the cheese label and toast a marshmallow once in while?

 

For me, I wouldn't call you a vegetarian.

I don't mean that a combative statement, simply where I stand on the issue. I really don't see the difference between eating a side of beef, as to eating the piece of that animal in the marshmallow, the cow gut in your cheese.

To me, it's a bit like saying "Yes, I regularly eat fried rice that's cooked in oyster sauce and has chunks of pork and prawn in it. But, I can't see the oysters in the sauce and the chunks of pork and prawn are tiny."

Meat is meat.

With that, I don't mean you're not making a difference or that I don't support the difference you're making. I think you're doing a great thing. I just don't think it's vegetarianism.

Obviously, I'm probably outnumbered in that philosophy. But it's the way I feel about it.

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#101 Old 05-13-2013, 09:27 PM
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I personally wouldn't say that someone wasn't a vegetarian if they ate the odd gelatine marshmallow....although I avoid gelatine myself......what with all the animal ingredients that are allowed in a more exact definition of vegetarianism, I think the boundaries are a bit blurred anyway.
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#102 Old 05-14-2013, 03:55 AM
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Animal farming is already a very innefficient business. The only things keeping these people in business is a) government subsidies and b) traditionalism among consumers. Kill the meat lobbies and convince the population that they should prefer plant based food to animal based ones and the days of animal farming are counted.

 

In other words, although the best you can do individually is to go all vegan all the way, flexitarianism also counts.

 

Furthermore, many vegetarians, including myself, went through an "half-assed" period before they got there. After eating animal corps for so many years without even seeing it like a moral issue, sudainly realizing that there is a problem ought to create some cognitive dissonance. Remember we are all human. Doing it progressively will make the transition smooter. It will also help you get more familiar with plant-based foods before you make the final jumps. Too many new vegetarians starve themselves at first because the only plant based meal they know is salad and they don't realize that they have to replace their meat with beans/nuts/etc.

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#103 Old 05-16-2013, 02:49 AM
 
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Just a quick update. Had an early start today and didn't get back in till about 10am. Having had no breakfast I was starving. On autopilot I started making a bacon sandwich until I realised what I was doing......and had tomatoes on toast instead.
That might sound nothing to some but for me it is a major sea change in my thinking.
I have also instigated one meal a week that is vegetarian, for everyone.

So, you know....its all progress. smiley.gif
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#104 Old 05-16-2013, 03:24 AM
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Woah! Glad you realised what you were doing (and made the choice to NOT continue making it).

It is a big change. It can take a while. I still get a little nervous about ordering food because I was always so used to saying "Cheeseburger"....

Congratulations though, it looks like things are going well!

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#105 Old 05-16-2013, 08:24 AM
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Just a quick update. Had an early start today and didn't get back in till about 10am. Having had no breakfast I was starving. On autopilot I started making a bacon sandwich until I realised what I was doing......and had tomatoes on toast instead.
That might sound nothing to some but for me it is a major sea change in my thinking.
I have also instigated one meal a week that is vegetarian, for everyone.

So, you know....its all progress. smiley.gif

 

That's great! Though you are making me want a tomato sandwich.

 

An old roommate of mine used to make BLTs with Morningstar or another mock bacon and he got really addicted to them, so you may want to give that a whirl. Sometimes, when going vegetarian or vegan it can really help to simply replace some of your meals with the mock version. 


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#106 Old 05-16-2013, 05:24 PM
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...and the difference is what?

You got me  =( 

 

To me he just seemed like an "i'm not even going to really look" atttitude which to me doesn't seem to correlate well with ones ethical standards of avoiding cruelty.. I do try and look for things I would purchase from a store, but with college it's much trickier to get ingredients for already prepared food.


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#107 Old 06-12-2013, 03:24 AM
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Johnoco: If you're looking for a silver or gold badge of approval to show that you're a member of the Secret and Coveted Society of Vegetarians, then you're not going to get it.

 

However, I doubt your aim is this (and anyway, there's a long ritual and initiation process before you are allowed to wear it, and few people manage to get through the tests). dizzy2.gif

 

If you just want to live your life as best as you see fit, I don't see why you're even bothering with this questioning.

 

But it's obvious that if you're consuming animals and in particular their flesh or "foodstuff" that is made from their flesh and bones, you're not a vegetarian. 

 

Do you really want to label yourself as one ? Will it make you feel better if you do ?

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#108 Old 06-13-2013, 05:33 PM
 
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Fair points Diana. And the answer is I wasn't sure what I was after but do now. And you are correct; I don't really need approval from any one. I will do what I can and see where I end up. smiley.gif
I also appreciate that the title may have seemed a little strange to an established board like this. But it wasn't my intention to cause conflict and I think that has been the case in general. Thanks
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#109 Old 06-14-2013, 11:46 AM
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Johnoco, I think what you're doing is great and commendable.

 

There is a need to put a label and criteria on what this board is about to prevent abuse and that is necessary since we are a small minority with plenty who wish to persecute! However, I do feel there is some common sense required.

 

I think I've been vegetarian for 10 years - I would have said I have until I read this thread. Why? Well I just found out that marshmallows have gelatin! I probably ate one a couple of weeks ago.

 

Does that mean I've not been vegetarian these last 10 years? Do I care? No, I consider myself vegetarian and have been for 10 years. There may be some on the board that consider me not vegetarian but I don't care because I'm doing it for me, not for them.

 

So what you're doing is knowingly avoiding meat as best you can and you should take great comfort in the fact that you're making a difference.

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#110 Old 06-14-2013, 03:46 PM
 
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Thanks Siv. That's my take on it too
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#111 Old 06-23-2013, 02:41 AM
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. Why? Well I just found out that marshmallows have gelatin! I probably ate one a couple of weeks ago.

 

Does that mean I've not been vegetarian these last 10 years?

 

Obviously, if you don't knowingly eat something that is made of animals, then of course you're still a vegetarian. I'm a strict vegan (member of the Vegan Police as well, recently promoted to rank of Captain-in-Chief).  Some time ago, I ate an incredibly tasty olive paste (after having carefully read the ingredients beforehand). But I didn't read them well enough, because when I tried to figure out what was in the olive paste to see if I could make it myself, I realised there was parmesan cheese in it. And of course I still consider myself a strict vegan. I didn't eat the parmesan cheese knowingly. And I didn't do any self-flagellation or have nightmares about this or make sacrifices to the vegan gods during a full moon so that they would forgive me. What grates me is that the ingredients are sometimes written in such tiny letters that you need a f*cking magnifying glass to read them.

 

If somone KNOWINGLY eats something made out of animals, then they're not vegetarian.

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#112 Old 06-23-2013, 03:27 PM
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Also, this is the vegetarian forum so please don't promote veganism as the only correct way to go.

 

What VeganChick said!

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