Foods to stop hunger - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 03-04-2014, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pandiculationco View Post

And no, you do not have the same problem.  White and brown rice stand quite alone among grains.  There are not "many grains" that have the same nutrient density.
Of course there are, for example barley, millet, corn and buckwheat have similar nutrient densities.......and its not like the other grains are dramatically more nutrient dense. Grains, in general, have moderate nutrient density.........yet they have been the foundation, along with legumes, of all traditional plant based diets. There is no reason to only consume the most nutrient dense grains, its rather easy to meet your traditional needs while primarily eating brown rice as your grain of choice. And, unlike actual junk foods, consuming brown rice doesn't negatively impact your health.

If you want to try to maximizing your nutrient intake or some other scheme that is your business, but these aren't useful nutritional messages and you won't find anything you're saying here echoed by any scientific body. It was a mistake to engage in this.
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#32 Old 03-04-2014, 03:31 AM
 
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I could sit here and type out a bunch of stuff to debunk the whole "rice is junk food" thing, but honestly the premise of that idea is so extraordinarily silly that any effort I put into trying to convince somebody who holds that view would be futile.  I will continue to enjoy rice for what it is, a healthy grain that is quite satiating.  If someone avoids it because, for some odd reason, they think it is unhealthy, then that's their choice, and it doesn't affect me at all.  I just hope that others who read this thread can see through the "rice is junkfood" nonsense so they don't avoid it based on that off the wall premise. 

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#33 Old 03-04-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by logic View Post


Of course there are, for example barley, millet, corn and buckwheat have similar nutrient densities.......and its not like the other grains are dramatically more nutrient dense. Grains, in general, have moderate nutrient density.........yet they have been the foundation, along with legumes, of all traditional plant based diets. There is no reason to only consume the most nutrient dense grains, its rather easy to meet your traditional needs while primarily eating brown rice as your grain of choice. And, unlike actual junk foods, consuming brown rice doesn't negatively impact your health.

If you want to try to maximizing your nutrient intake or some other scheme that is your business, but these aren't useful nutritional messages and you won't find anything you're saying here echoed by any scientific body. It was a mistake to engage in this.

 

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Originally Posted by logic View Post


Of course there are, for example barley, millet, corn and buckwheat have similar nutrient densities.......and its not like the other grains are dramatically more nutrient dense.

 

That's false.  

 

Based on the rule of thumb I gave, barley, millet, and buckwheat fall easily on the "not junk food" side of things.  Brown/white rice does not- they are junk food.  Black rice and wild rice are NOT junk food.

 

I'm being entirely consistent here.  The differences in these grains can easily be from 50% to 100%.  That's dramatic!

 

Corn sometimes doesn't pass the bar, depending on the variety (there are too many kinds of corn).

 

Sweet corn, the corn that people usually eat (as a vegetable) seems to pass.

 

 

Corn that's in corn chips and tortillas either barely passes or barely fails (except blue corn, which passes by a healthy margin).  The oil used to fry corn chips usually makes them worse than rice.

 

I don't pick on corn as much because it's more of a mixed bag, and usually a little better than rice- but corn can be a junk food too (some varieties).

 

The reason I sometimes recommend tortillas is utility- they make it easier to eat beans, for example.  I would recommend a brown rice tortilla just as I would recommend a corn one for that reason.  I wouldn't recommend them as a snacking food on their own.

I recommend whole wheat tortillas far above corn.

 

There are very few grains that fall on the junk food side- rice (white and brown) is dramatically less nutrient dense than almost all other grains due to excessive starch content.

 

It can be part of a healthy diet in the same way doughnuts can, but it's not substantially contributing to health, it's being carried by other foods which are more healthy.

 

 

Quote:
There is no reason to only consume the most nutrient dense grains, its rather easy to meet your traditional needs while primarily eating brown rice as your grain of choice.

 

Sure.  There's also no reason to only consume decidedly healthy foods and to avoid moderate amounts of junk food in the diet.

 

Small deficits in the diet in one area can be made up in another- whether that's a substantial amount of a slightly junky food like brown rice, or a smaller amount of more junky food like doughnuts.

 

A diet is flexible, and can make up for shortcomings of some of its components.

 

 

I eat rice.  And sometimes I eat vegan doughnuts.  What do they have in common?  They're both dragging down the nutrient density of my diet, and providing excess calories.

 

Neither of them can really be recommended.

 

There may be no reason to avoid rice in moderation, but neither is there any reason to recommend it to somebody when there are much healthier and more nutrient  dense options to recommend.

 

Particularly for somebody who is struggling with weight loss and trying to find Foods to stop hunger, without over consuming calories.  Rice is not useful to that end, and can not be recommended.

 

For the OP, rice is junk food.  It's going to provide more calories than nutrients, and more calories than it will provide satiation (and if it provided satiation sooner, it would contribute to malnourishment).

 

 

Quote:
If you want to try to maximizing your nutrient intake or some other scheme that is your business,

 

Have you forgotten what this thread is about?

 

Consider the OP's concerns.

 

The OP needs to maximize nutrient intake per calorie.  This is how the OP will be satiated- with nutrient dense and  bulky foods- without consuming excessive calories (which would contribute to weight gain) and without becoming malnourished.

 

For the OP, rice is junk food, and is not recommended.

 

 

I've said it before, that if you're an athlete or something, burning 3,000 calories a day, rice stops being a junk food for you.  But for most people, who ARE concerned with maximizing nutrition on a vegan diet, or with controlling weight, it's sound nutritional advice to consider rice a junk food

 

Everybody's needs are different, and your mileage may vary.

 

 

Quote:
And, unlike actual junk foods, consuming brown rice doesn't negatively impact your health.

 

 

Like I've said before, I'm very skeptical of those claims.  They seem to border on mystical to me, and sound like a naturalistic fallacy in practice.

 

As a critical thinker, I try to be fair to all food, without giving special treatment to 'natural' food.

 

The things you consider junk food contribute more to weight gain because they are engineered to be excessively delicious- it's not that mysterious why people eat more delicious food than bland food.  Food that tastes good isn't evil- we just have to be more vigilant about portion control (although, food that results in animal cruelty is evil, but that's another point entirely).

 

Bull$#!t

 

At a certain point, consumption of Trans-fats, Saturated fat, and Cholesterol, along with excess sodium, etc. does become a legitimate health issue.  But aside from Trans-fats, our bodies have decent mechanisms for dealing with even these undesirable substances when consumed in moderation.  And moderation is the trick.

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#34 Old 03-04-2014, 12:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jordy Verrill View Post
 

I could sit here and type out a bunch of stuff to debunk the whole "rice is junk food" thing

 

No, I don't think you could.  It's easy to say you can debunk something, but not as easily done.

 

You might as well say: "I could sit here and type out a bunch of stuff to debunk that whole "the Earth is 'round" thing"

 

That goes as far to proving your point.

 

If you have a legitimate argument, please make it (as I have), instead of just throwing out unsubstantiated claims.

 

 

Quote:

 

I just hope that others who read this thread can see through the "rice is junkfood" nonsense so they don't avoid it based on that off the wall premise.

 

Do you know what a premise is?

 

 

prem·ise
ˈpremis/
noun
LOGIC
noun: premise; plural noun: premises; noun: premiss; plural noun: premisses
  1. 1.
    a previous statement or proposition from which another is inferred or follows as a conclusion.
    "if the premise is true, then the conclusion must be true"
    • an assertion or proposition which forms the basis for a work or theory.
      "the fundamental premise of the report"
       

 

 

"Rice is junk food" was not the premise, but a reasoned conclusion based on the available evidence, and my premises- which were very different statements.  I explained my reasoning.  You can explore it, and point out any problems you see if you want, but calling the conclusion a premise does nothing.

 

My premise was that a food's value is determined by:

 

Good stuff / Bad stuff

 

Where in nutrition is good, and calories are 'bad' (particularly in the context of somebody struggling with weight)- other things, like trans fats, saturated fat, cholesterol, heavy metals, and carcinogens are also bad (but we didn't get into those much).

 

And that junk foods are those foods for which there is no reason to recommend consumption in a healthy diet because of their low value (though which can be consumed in moderation in a healthy diet, if compensated by other healthier food, with respect to how junky they are).

 

Further, I said I think that protein content vs. calories is a good approximation of nutrient density for whole foods (not that it's always right, not that is doesn't have exceptions, just that it's an easy rule of thumb).

 

 

  • logic (the user), has very different premises.  He believes that junk foods are a certain special class of foods which should not be consumed, even in moderation, because they are 'addictive' and have certain health effects, like depressing the metabolism and promoting weight gain independent of their by the books nutritional profiles and calorie content.  (My apologies if I got that wrong)

 

I am skeptical of those claims, and I do not yet believe they are true.  I might LIKE to believe they are true.  It paints a pretty picture.  But I don't just believe whatever I would like to believe- I believe what I think there's sufficient evidence for.

 

Because the operating premises I'm going by are fundamentally different to those logic (the user) operates on, it's nearly impossible for the two of us to agree on the same conclusion.

 

I keep trying to tell him this, but he keeps criticizing me for being inconsistent (which I'm not) or ignoring points which I have said I do not accept.

 

It's like if Ken Ham tells Bill Nye "But you're ignoring the fact that God created the Universe 6,000 years ago in six days and then rested on the seventh"

 

No, I'm not ignoring it- I just don't believe there's sufficient evidence for the claim, and I don't operate with that as a premise.

 

If your premises are not my premises, fruitful discussion is not possible.

 

If you agree with logic (the user), and you think there is compelling evidence for his beliefs about 'junk food', then you and I will never be able to agree on the conclusion.

I don't think there's compelling evidence for that position.  Maybe some day there will be.  Maybe he's right.  But right now, I don't see it- I'm skeptical.

I believe in nutritional profiles, which is what we have, and I apply them fairly and evenly to foods whether I like to eat them or not.

 

I like to eat rice.  It's yummy.

I also like sweet fruits now and then.

 

I'm not going to give them a pass, or exemption from fair critical evaluation just because they're 'natural' or 'whole foods' though.  That would be a fallacy.

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#35 Old 03-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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Okay I've pretty much skipped every post & replied. I consider myself quite a high metabolism person. Typical day,
Breakfast
A cup of porridge oats, with coconut oil & honey/maple syrup

Lunch
4x Houmous & salad sandwiches. That's 8 slices of bread.

Snacks
1 or 2 Bananas
1 or 2 jam & nut butter sandwiches
170g jar of seeds & rasins
2-4 carrots cut into battons

Dinner
As an example tonight a nice hot pot/"cottage pie"
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#36 Old 04-24-2014, 11:08 PM
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I am a little appalled that posters went off on tangents about classifying foods when the OP stated they are in recovery for ED.

People in recovery from Eating Disorder really need to enjoy food again. Telling them anything is junk food can set them off. Please think about that before you type. Please.

I noticed one kind poster mention that you might not be overweight. I, too, would be curious what your doctor says about your weight. Your menu is pretty low cal and a little nutritionally low. I would think you might feel hungry because your body is looking for more nutrients. It hasn't been getting them up until this point.

I would add some ground flax or walnuts to the oatmeal. Maybe some dried or sliced fresh fruit.

A smoothie between breakfast and lunch.

Snack on raw veggies or sliced apples when your hungry. Some hummus or avocado are nice nutritionally sound dips.

Popcorn is great if you want to munch a lot. We use an air popper and spray olive oil on it and salt it. Then toss the bowl and do it again. Nutritional yeast is pretty yummy, too.

Add more toppings to your sandwich or make a salad on the side. Sliced canned beets, pickles, olives, hummus, shredded carrots, mushrooms are all things my family likes on sandwiches.

Cook extra grains when making dinner like rice or quinoa. The next day you can put a scoop on a salad OR add some finely diced veggies, can of drained/rinsed beans and your favorite salad dressing. Buy some small storage containers or mason jars and put servings of the grain salad in there.

Take care of yourself. Rest and take a slow walk.


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#37 Old 05-02-2014, 02:14 AM
 
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so not accurate

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#38 Old 05-02-2014, 03:00 AM
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so not accurate

Just curious as to what is not accurate?


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#39 Old 05-02-2014, 03:30 AM
 
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the stuff about rice being a junk food, depending on when the body absorb it

didnt quote it

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#40 Old 05-02-2014, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by vegalex View Post
 

the stuff about rice being a junk food, depending on when the body absorb it

didnt quote it

Ok, gottcha, thanks!


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#41 Old 05-10-2014, 03:04 AM
 
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Substitute it with beans, divided beans, etc.  You can create a dense broth, and eat it with toasted bread.  Or create Hummus for the food.

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#42 Old 06-12-2014, 02:37 PM
 
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I eat 5 times a day including breakfast, lunch, dinner and 2 snacks. It is better to have small meals rather than having big meals everyday. I don't see fruits in your diet so you must add in it your meal. When you are hungry try drinking water or eat some fat-free yogurt rather than other fatty foods like burger.
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