Is it bad to do strength excercises while water fasting? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-01-2017, 01:10 PM
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Is it bad to do strength excercises while water fasting?

I never do more than light walking and stretching during the water fast. However, I've heard of people who continue to do strength exercises and someone even told me once, that it help prevent muscle loss during a fast.
I don't see any real logic behind this.
Is it a bad idea to try any form of strength exercising?
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#2 Old 02-01-2017, 01:58 PM
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Are you a Jain and are you fasting during the days of Paryushan? If not, has this been approved by a doctor?

I'm going to reword your question: "Is it a bad idea to try any form of water fasting?"

Yes.
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#3 Old 02-01-2017, 03:41 PM
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Interesting... just a couple days ago or so, you posted about how the less you eat the better you feel.

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

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#4 Old 02-02-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
Are you a Jain and are you fasting during the days of Paryushan? If not, has this been approved by a doctor?

I'm going to reword your question: "Is it a bad idea to try any form of water fasting?"

Yes.
No, I'm not. I am a Christian though, and have fasted for prayer and spiritual purposes before, though.
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#5 Old 02-02-2017, 11:16 AM
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Interesting... just a couple days ago or so, you posted about how the less you eat the better you feel.
Yes, I did. That was in regards to my reduction in appetite, due to the current health issues I mentioned in that thread.
I'm not fasting. I'm wondering about this, because someone I was talking to does regular fasting and cleansing. She said that she continues her strength workouts, to prevent muscle deterioration, when fasting for longer periods.
I just don't know how that would work, without giving the body any fuel. But she insists that her fat stores is enough fuel.

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#6 Old 02-02-2017, 11:22 AM
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No, I'm not. I am a Christian though, and have fasted for prayer and spiritual purposes before, though.
I think you've missed the point. What I'm trying to get to is this: water fasting is bad for you. In fact, any diet with unrealistic claims is likely very bad for you. You could end up in the emergency room at a local hospital, or a local morgue.

To answer your original question, if you're truly planning on going a water diet (or are currently on one), I'd seriously urge you to talk to a doctor about the diet and exercise. If you're not putting any calories in your body, what do you think you're burning when you do strength exercises? If you're doing this for weight loss, doctors can recommend a plan for you.

A few minutes of web searches does not replace the years and years of education and experience that doctors have in their arsenal. Talk to them. Listen to them. You're also welcome to get multiple opinions, if you feel you need it.
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#7 Old 02-02-2017, 11:23 AM
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I just don't know how that would work, without giving the body any fuel. But she insists that her fat stores is enough fuel.
Listen to your intuition!

If it doesn't sound right, maybe it isn't.

Is your friend a doctor?
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#8 Old 02-03-2017, 03:29 PM
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Listen to your intuition!

If it doesn't sound right, maybe it isn't.

Is your friend a doctor?
It really doesn't sound right.
No, and she isn't my friend. She's just an acquaintance that I'm sort of stuck with (hard to explain). She is always on some weird diet, cleanse, or special program.
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#9 Old 02-04-2017, 07:06 AM
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It really doesn't sound right.
No, and she isn't my friend. She's just an acquaintance that I'm sort of stuck with (hard to explain). She is always on some weird diet, cleanse, or special program.
I think you just answered your own question then.

Nothing tastes as good as compassion feels
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#10 Old 02-04-2017, 02:05 PM
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I'll be willing to believe that light exercise, as in walking stretching and foam rolling etc., may signal the body to try harder to keep muscle around. [The body naturally goes into 'protein sparing mode' after a day or two of fasting anyway, its possible walking and a minimum of bodyweight exercise could amplify this, I doubt theres been any studies on it.] Part of strength training is neuromuscular. Rather than muscle mass, strength can come from better neurological connections to the muscle fibers. This could be maintained with bodyweight exercises but even after months of deconditioning it comes right back anyway, low rep ranges are particularly noted for the neuromuscular gains- like when you deadlift to failure in 3 reps. I know of no evidence that water fasting might reduce neromuscular gains more than just going the same length of time with no training, but its well known that in fasting the nervous system is very strongly protected by the body. Even in cases of death by starvation there is no neurological damage.

Strength training doesnt build muscle even when your eating. Strength training breaks down muscle and in the next day when you eat and rest your body rebuilds the muscle and adds just a bit more. Lots of power lifters and even bodybuilders do their workouts in the morning in the fasted state, and not all of them endorse huge protein intakes, but every one of them not on steroids will tell you that both food and rest are important.
Expect glycogen stores to vanish, the muscles will dramatically shrink because of that, but after breaking the fast that can be reversed with bodybuilding training parameters and brown rice easily enough.

Do Not listen to doctors in regards to prolonged fasting unless they are actually qualified in the subject. The great majority are not, and its not even mentioned in medical school. Some doctors are qualified in fasting and its been used in a clinical setting consistently since the beginning of modern medicine.
You wouldnt assume a car salesman can remove your appendix, you shouldnt assume a GP can give medical care they have not been trained in.

The best modern text on water fasting I've read [and I think I've read them all] is 'Fasting and Eating for Health - A Medical Doctor's Program for Conquering Disease' by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, MD. Its lacking lots of the practical detail found in some older books but it gives a modern perspective by a doctor who water fasts patients typically for one to two weeks.
I alluded to detail packed older books, the best of those are by Herbert Shelton. He rambles, he has an amusing fondness for the antics of the alaskan fur seal bull, and he references lots of very non-vegan scientific research, but in his career he water fasted tens of thousands of people and you wont find better detail on the subject of water fasting in humans. His book 'The Hygienic System, Vol. III, Fasting and Sun Bathing, Third Revised Edition' is off copyright and legal to download for free [Here]
Both of those doctors insist that water fasts longer than 3-4 days should be monitored by qualified doctors and that no more than very light exercise [walking, mainly] should be done during the fast.

Why is it only jains are allowed to fast anymore, TailFin? LOL
As a buddhist, I consider that discrimination
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#11 Old 02-06-2017, 09:30 AM
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Why is it only jains are allowed to fast anymore, TailFin? LOL
As a buddhist, I consider that discrimination
Touche.

Didn't really feel like typing out all of the exclusions, rather I only gave one example. Jains, Buddhists, Christians, etc, in addition to those doing it for medical reasons or on hunger strikes... etc etc etc.
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#12 Old 02-07-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Auxin;4055562[I
Do Not [/I]listen to doctors in regards to prolonged fasting unless they are actually qualified in the subject. The great majority are not, and its not even mentioned in medical school. Some doctors are qualified in fasting and its been used in a clinical setting consistently since the beginning of modern medicine.
You wouldnt assume a car salesman can remove your appendix, you shouldnt assume a GP can give medical care they have not been trained in.
I wonder how many members coming on VB giving all sorts of medical advice are medically qualified to do so? Anecdotal evidence may seem ok to the dispensing VB "doctor" but the recipient VB "patient" is most probably being given a diagnosis/medical advice over the internet by a complete layperson. Very worrying considering that many members coming to VB with health/medical problems, often seem quite vulnerable and may be susceptible to poor/completely wacky advice.

Lv
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#13 Old 02-07-2017, 02:08 PM
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It amuses me how much higher people seem to think the legal burden needs to be on advice-givers on the internet.
Out on the street if a person says they have a tendency to get colds easily, and someone tells them to go in a hot shower and beat themselves with a maple branch, the 'patient' will just shrug and walk away. Perhaps with an eye-roll added for effect.
On the internet we are all presumed to be licensed doctors who have taken them as patients and physically examined them by some psychic means
Even vegans are neither psychic nor omnipotent.

This is part of why 8 year olds are not allowed on the site. We are supposed to be mature and rational enough to know that no one here is your doctor!
Even in the US, the frivolous lawsuit capital of the world, you cant sue your grandmother for 'prescribing' chicken soup without a license.
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#14 Old 02-07-2017, 03:13 PM
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It amuses me how much higher people seem to think the legal burden needs to be on advice-givers on the internet.
Out on the street if a person says they have a tendency to get colds easily, and someone tells them to go in a hot shower and beat themselves with a maple branch, the 'patient' will just shrug and walk away. Perhaps with an eye-roll added for effect.
On the internet we are all presumed to be licensed doctors who have taken them as patients and physically examined them by some psychic means
Even vegans are neither psychic nor omnipotent.

This is part of why 8 year olds are not allowed on the site. We are supposed to be mature and rational enough to know that no one here is your doctor!
Even in the US, the frivolous lawsuit capital of the world, you cant sue your grandmother for 'prescribing' chicken soup without a license.
Hi Auxin

In actual fact, the lower age limit on VB is 13. But I've seen many instances of people who from their background info are obviously much older than that who seem quite vulnerable and very receptive to the most ludicrous health info supplied by other members. People on extreme diets and/or with medical conditions such as anorexia or bulimia may not always be acting rationally. A difficulty with people dispensing medical advice on the internet (and I'm talking about more than prescribing chicken soup) is that they cannot see the "patient". Neither can the "patient" see them. There seems to be no accountability either. If bad medical advice is given on the internet, how do you know who has seen that advice and who has acted on it? You don't.

It's precisely because of attitudes like yours that I reported this thread to the moderators so that they can keep a careful eye on the health information given to other members.

Lv.
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#15 Old 02-07-2017, 09:05 PM
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I find it ironic that your very first post in this thread, unequivocally, was medical advice

And not even on topic.
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