Period has vanished. - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-15-2016, 02:10 PM
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Period has vanished.

Ah crap. Ah balls. Forgive the rant, ok? Thankyou so much. But I've woken up and my patience and hope has dissolved a bit. Plus I'm not sure what to do...

I've posted in 'Women's Health' so many times and then was so darn chuffed that I had a regular and fairly painless cycle for the first time in...ever. Sure, it was 47 days long but it was predictable and involved ovulation and no crazy PMS and no night sweats and...all things.

And I know cycles fluctuate. I do. But finding myself 4 days late with an already long cycle means it's over 50 days. And just as I took regularity (and a scan showing happy follicles and thickness and stuff) as a sign of health, I'm taking this as the reverse.
I got the flu partway through so perhaps that impacted but somewhere inside me I 'know' that's not the case because 47 days, regular or not, already felt a bit dysfunctional.

So here I am. Technically trying to conceive with a partner who's away every second month and the longest bloody (pun intended) cycle ever has tested the acceptance (when he's away it means another 47 days til we're even in with a shot) but it felt like I was getting somewhere and now...
nothing.

I'm 31. It's not a good time to lose periods.
And most distressingly, I don't know why I have. The only thing I've done differently is gone back to veganism rather than eating small amounts of fish every 2 days or so (long story. And I definitely don't want to anymore and have been so happy to return to this). I guess it's that. But I refuse to believe that tiny amount of fish (a few slices of sashimi, really. Barely anything) made a difference?
I've SLIGHTLY upped my soy intake. So slightly. Due to an extra day at work (and them having soy not other milks at the cafe). One glass a week more than the odd glass I was otherwise having.
So basically... no reason for this.

Sorry about the long post.
Trying to get it out of system before partner gets up and the bummed-outness that has been growing over the last few days takes me over.

My current approach is to keep the fish out. And assume it's as simple as gain a few kilos. Tragically, dairy fat seems to help so I guess I'll eat that too.

Otherwise, I feel better than I ever have.
So it's really just the 'ttc' bit, I guess.
I never thought I'd be one of those women but golly, I am. Officially. I burst into tears at a zebra crossing the other day realising that the mothers walking their kids to school might never be me.

Anyway... thanks for letting me plop this here. I was liking feeling normal and healthy (but working on being more so. Veganism and at least vegetarianism has only ever helped with that and I tend to get lighter when I consume fish!) and now feel completely crappy.

The end.

(Seriously. What is in a few slices of fish?! I take Omega 3. I take b12. I take iron. I eat about 65g protein a day and am small. I'm sleeping heaps and didn't until this year. WHAT THE EFF.)

Last edited by Beets&Beats; 07-15-2016 at 02:11 PM. Reason: adding something
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#2 Old 07-15-2016, 03:07 PM
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I see you've mentioned ttc but I don't see any mention of testing - could you be pregnant? (That could explain the tears at the crosswalk?)

I doubt those dietary changes would throw it off this much. I know you mentioned having the flu - that and stress could definitely do it. Have you lost much weight? That could also do it.

Last edited by kyr656; 07-15-2016 at 03:19 PM.
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#3 Old 07-15-2016, 03:35 PM
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I am certainly no expert, nor am I a doctor but I am incredibly OCD LOL, and prior to, during and all through my transition to/lifestyle as a vegan, I've done a TON of reading and research regarding getting proper nutrients on a vegan diet, and nothing anywhere suggests that eating fish or dairy fat is necessary for functional, normal reproductive health. Certainly, there is a LOT of money being spent to try and convince the public that it is, but the truth is that if anything, dairy (which is FULL of hormones, especially in the US, where giving cattle growth hormones is not banned), is more likely to negatively impact your health, not positively.

I do not know the details of your situation but I do know that if you have been very stressed out, this is a very common reason for your period to be missed/skipped. Illness (you mentioned the flu) is also a very common reason for a delay.

Additionally, women can/will lose their periods when their weight and/or body fat percentage becomes too low (it happens frequently with extreme fitness competitors, despite the fact their body weight is within normal ranges). Excessive exercise has the same effect, regardless of overall body weight or fat percentage.

It seems the change in your diet is probably the least likely reason to be the cause of any negative impact on your cycle - as the above poster mentioned, could it be that you are, in fact, pregnant?
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#4 Old 07-16-2016, 01:37 PM
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If you are triggered by harsh weight or ED talk, please scroll down.

Beets&beats, if you gain weight by eating enough calories, you will improve your fertility chances. Get your BMI to a reasonable level by eating more food, and avoiding behaviors that make one stay thin. Your periods will then have a good chance of regulating.


There is absolutely nothing magical about fish or dairy that forces you to tragically choose between having children and being forced to eat them. It is enough food that you need, not specifically fish or dairy.
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#5 Old 07-19-2016, 11:22 AM
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@Beets&Beats - any update?
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#6 Old 07-26-2016, 04:03 AM
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Sorry, I unexpectedly started a volunteer position and haven't had time to Internet since that post! But now back to my abundance of square-eye-ing... ! Quite tired as I write this but didn't want to wait til the morning because I love this forum and the valuable input and souls flouting about on here .
Thanks

Kyr, how interesting! I didn't really think the flu could and I didn't feel 'stressed' beyond not getting much sleep and spreading vile snot and fever around the house. Perhaps it was that. If it was, I'd expect the period any day now (meaning it was just delayed a week or something)...
I'm not pregnant according to tests and I don't feel pregnant (usually in the second half of my cycle I get all sleepy and apparently that's progesterone... so I'd imagine being pregnant it's like that but even more!)

Ledboots, valid points and that's what I'm counting on. I've successfully gained some weight this year and hadn't lost any before this month but more as backup will be helpful .

Symondezyn, thankyou for the wisdom! Our OCD powers combined have not turned up anything on fish and dairy so I think I don't need to force those in. Good point too about the exercise even when bodyfat and weight are ok. I'll keep that in mind!


Nothing has happened. I had cramps last week but they went away and now I'm wondering if they were midpoint cramps and just really late... but none of the other markers for that (I normally track) happened so.... I'm stumped! I also had really uncharacteristic insomnia last week. Pounding heart. No sleep. But I put that down to cheese for dinner several nights running and am putting that in the reasons to NOT force in dairy basket . Plus it really isn't as nice as the substitutes. Maybe it's unrelated though and was just a random thing...

Either way, something is coming back to life (I could go into detail but you probably don't want that) so
I figured the best response was to just chill out, assume it will be back and was just a little shaken up (perhaps by my very slight increase in soy which I'm now going to attempt to be vegan without*?..., perhaps by flu, perhaps by nothing at all) rather than it needing fish or dairy. I can't do dairy. I just... I keep trying and it throws so many things off (including my soul).

I'm glad to log on and see this post echoed the point I came to.
And sorry that I'm not doing your posts justice or making sense! Time for bed!

(*I'm sure many people are vegan without soy but it's useful and I love it! I was only drinking a glass of milk a day. I'll get by...
The isoflavones in other beans as protein don't effect hormones the same way, right? Or as extremely? There are phytoestrogens in alllll the good stuff ...)
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#7 Old 07-26-2016, 09:00 PM
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The phytoestrogens in plant foods are unrelated to your human estrogen hormone. The dairy and meat industries have funded dozens of studies attempting to prove that soy is the devil. It is not the devil, and will not screw up your cycle. Neither will dairy or meat, not that I think you should eat them, of course. If you want fertility, don't worry so much about what you eat, but that you do eat enough food.

http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-to...nd-your-health
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#8 Old 07-27-2016, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
The phytoestrogens in plant foods are unrelated to your human estrogen hormone. The dairy and meat industries have funded dozens of studies attempting to prove that soy is the devil. It is not the devil, and will not screw up your cycle. Neither will dairy or meat, not that I think you should eat them, of course. If you want fertility, don't worry so much about what you eat, but that you do eat enough food.

http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-to...nd-your-health
I've read studies that link early puberty with the hormones fed dairy cows, and other changes caused by hormones in meats.
Or are you referring to meat animals that aren't messed with?
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#9 Old 07-27-2016, 03:32 AM
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I've read studies that link early puberty with the hormones fed dairy cows, and other changes caused by hormones in meats.
Or are you referring to meat animals that aren't messed with?
Since the OP desires fertility, I am trying to get her to see that being underweight and undereating is very likely the cause of her infertility. Meat and dairy are unhealthy for a myriad of reasons, but it is very unlikely that they are the reason for the loss of menses.
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#10 Old 07-27-2016, 06:08 PM
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I concur about much of the above (and happily got a '' on the ovulation tracker this morning. It must have just been a bit delayed. All the same, my long cycles aren't desirable so I'll just hope that a few extra kilos help that) but do feel that whilst soy is a good food and not the devil, large amounts of it DO change menstrual cycles (albeit probably not too drastically) . It's different to estrogen but apparently when it blocks endogenous estrogen it can lower the levels of that too much (if they're already low) for ovulation. Etc.
It also apparently interferes with sperm direction (at much higher doses than the above. So... a lot of mockmeats AND soy milk).
I also know people who swear it pushes their cycle back 2 or 3 days reliably and people who find it helps or hurts cramps . All depends on your individual makeup I guess! It definitely helps my cramps and stops me getting PMS migraines !
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#11 Old 07-27-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Beets&Beats View Post
I concur about much of the above (and happily got a '' on the ovulation tracker this morning. It must have just been a bit delayed. All the same, my long cycles aren't desirable so I'll just hope that a few extra kilos help that) but do feel that whilst soy is a good food and not the devil, large amounts of it DO change menstrual cycles (albeit probably not too drastically) . It's different to estrogen but apparently when it blocks endogenous estrogen it can lower the levels of that too much (if they're already low) for ovulation. Etc.
It also apparently interferes with sperm direction (at much higher doses than the above. So... a lot of mockmeats AND soy milk).
I also know people who swear it pushes their cycle back 2 or 3 days reliably and people who find it helps or hurts cramps . All depends on your individual makeup I guess! It definitely helps my cramps and stops me getting PMS migraines !

The Adventist Health Study 2 is one of the largest long-term health studies ever performed; over 96,000 people were included in the study. The subjects of this study included omnivorous, semi-vegetarian, and vegetarian Seventh Day Adventist Christians.

The Adventist Health Study 2 included a long-term study, of over 11,000 women, on the effects of soy isoflavone intake on female fertility. Here’s a direct link to the abstract of that portion of the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24741329


Quoting the Adventist Health Study 2:

“In women with high (≥40 mg/day) isoflavone intake (12% of this group of women), the adjusted lifetime probability of giving birth to a live child was reduced by approximately 3% (95% CI: 0, 7) compared to women with low (<10 mg/day) intake. No relationships were found between the isoflavone intake and parity or age at first delivery in parous women. A similar inverse relationship (P=0.03) was found between the isoflavone intake and the risk of nulligravidity with a 13% (95% CI: 2, 26) higher risk of never have been pregnant in women with high (≥40 mg/day) isoflavone intake. These relationships were found mainly in women who reported problems becoming pregnant.”

So, in this study, women who consumed more than 40 mg/day of isoflavones were 3% less-likely to ever give birth to a live child, and 13% less-likely to ever give birth.


But wait though – how much isoflavones are actually found in the soy foods that we love? Here’s the USDA’s published data for the isoflavone content of dozens of foods, per 100 grams (3-1/2 ounces): http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles...Isoflav_R2.pdf .

From this USDA database, here is the isoflavone content of some popular soy foods, per 100 grams:

Soy hot dog: 1.00 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (PDF page 26)
Morningstar meatless chicken patties: 4.40 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (PDF page 21)
Soy burger: 6.39 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 32)
Soy drink (soymilk): 7.85 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 25)
Soy cheese: 25.72 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 25)
Tofu: 13 – 35 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (depending on type)(pages 31-32)
Tofu, salted and fermented: 41.85 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 32)
Soy yogurt: 33.17 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 27)
Tempeh: 60.61 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 30)
Soy protein drink: 81.65 mg isoflavones per 100 grams (page 26)


As you can see, you can eat certain types of soy products every day, and never come NEAR the 40 mg/day intake of isoflavones that the Adventist Health Study seems to caution about.

Of particular interest is the difference between the isoflavone content of soy milk vs. soy protein drink (beverage fortified with soy protein isolate). Also, the fermented soy foods (fermented tofu and tempeh) are very high in isoflavones.

.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 07-27-2016 at 08:50 PM.
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#12 Old 07-27-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Beets&Beats View Post
I concur about much of the above (and happily got a '' on the ovulation tracker this morning. It must have just been a bit delayed. All the same, my long cycles aren't desirable so I'll just hope that a few extra kilos help that) but do feel that whilst soy is a good food and not the devil, large amounts of it DO change menstrual cycles (albeit probably not too drastically) . It's different to estrogen but apparently when it blocks endogenous estrogen it can lower the levels of that too much (if they're already low) for ovulation. Etc.
It also apparently interferes with sperm direction (at much higher doses than the above. So... a lot of mockmeats AND soy milk).
I also know people who swear it pushes their cycle back 2 or 3 days reliably and people who find it helps or hurts cramps . All depends on your individual makeup I guess! It definitely helps my cramps and stops me getting PMS migraines !
Do you have citations for this? I work with OB/GYNS and REI specialists and have not heard of a soy/infertility link.
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#13 Old 07-27-2016, 10:52 PM
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I just want to point out that 100 grams is like 3.5 ounces so yes, it's quite easy to get >40 a day
Fermented soy is known to be healthiest, and offers the most isoflavones.

When you pick out almost any food you can come up with studies of there adverse effects.
I just googled "are cusiferious vegetables bad for you" and find they're thyroid killers. there are also links to why you should cook veggies

On a side note there are studies on the healthy effects of genistein- one component of soy isoflavanods-
http://www.phytochemicals.info/phyto.../genistein.php
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#14 Old 07-28-2016, 04:11 AM
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Again posting late at night (after a farewell day for partner leaving for two weeks. Arrrrrr. Always travelling and leaving me in big house in the trees solo to find parts of myself and adventures. Heh.) so forgive if I miss something or phrase badly but...

Silva, you make so much sense to me. Heh. And yes, true! About the foods! All things in moderation!
Thanks for the link on genistein, too.

Ledboots, my GP gave me some links and if you Google it in any scholarly search thing (if you're part of a workplace or uni that offers that) there's quite a lot about fertility in animals and humans re: phytoestrogens. As Silva said, I'm sure it exists with all foods but at the same time, it IS something that's easy to go overboard on and is also easy not to once you're aware of it.
I guess I'm also basing it on the experience of close friends and my own experience (I had no period when I started unknowningly overloading on soy that was in a certain type of bread and was recalled etc. And perhaps that was coincidence but still).
I eat soy and have really long cycles but I don't feel the two are connected. Even though the one recent cycle where I didn't eat soy was 35 days (as opposed to 47 to the dot). If I was deeply concerned I might stop ever eating soy and see what happened but I find it too useful so instead will be non-neurotic yet conscious and just consume it once a week or so and not in isolate form at the moment... (after we either have kids... or know we can't...I'll have no problem with it. I don't buy into the stuff about it causing catastrophe for everyone, but I'm sure some people go overboard and some other people react badly to even small amounts just because that's possible with anything). Your opinion is definitely useful- what work do you do with Ob/Gyns etc.? Much better source than the internet and possibly also my GP. heh.

David, thanks for that! I've seen the Adventist study before and some lists of isoflavones and actually had the reverse reaction (it's easy to eat a lot of those things considering serving sizes and the bits that make it into breads or whatever!) but am taking it with a grain of salt. I'm not a big fan of those broad 'less likely to have kids' studies but the ones specifically about ovulation etc. were quite interesting. Again, I'm sure it depends on body type etc.

It's tricky, because on one hand I don't want to change much since it probably makes little difference but on the other hand you never know what will make the difference when it comes to conception... It's also for a limited time (I hope)...
I'm just opting for moderation and for eating a lot and gaining a few extra kilos (and for my partner to travel less after this trip, which he will be) and the latter is easier when you don't avoid too many foods .
I hope this month was just unlucky and things get more regular. Then we'll at least be in the game, so to speak...
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#15 Old 07-28-2016, 05:29 AM
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Beets and Beats, that sounds like a very good plan.

I am sorry that I sound harsh, I am an RN and pretty upfront with my patients at work. I am also nice and nurturing when the situation calls for it, of course!

Sometimes doctors won't say "morbid obesity" to a patient, for example, even though it is an actual diagnosis! I say it, and give the patients ideas (veg of course ) to lose.

I work with fantastic OB/GYNs that are affiliated with a medical school and major metro hospital, so if there are any questions you have, I can pass them along. They are very up to date on all the latest and greatest because of the med students. We have an infertility IUI/IVF division as well, and they always encourage women to get in at least the middle section of the "normal" bmi for optimum fertility. Many women come for a consult and then get pregnant on their own before the next appointment lol.
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#16 Old 07-28-2016, 05:30 AM
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#17 Old 07-28-2016, 02:13 PM
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Ledboots, not harsh at all ! And sometimes it's necessary, anyway, so I'm glad you say what you feel you need to.
I find comments on weight a really interesting area, actually. I was listening to a talk by an overweight lady just the other day about how people speak to her or don't address her weight or do and ... it got me thinking. I definitely know that at my thinnest (accidental and generally unwell) not ONE doctor suggested some of my health issues were causing my low weight but a lot of it was the low weight itself. "You're so slight and lovely! I'd love to look like you!" came from the female ones or "You're just a small girl." from the males when I eventually thought to ask if it mattered that I was hideously underweight. Even now when I mention it to my GP as something I'll change etc. I get the "Oh, no. If you're fit, it doesn't matter. You're fine." which is true, I'm sure but I'd RATHER be a little heavier. AND (why do I always write such bloody long posts?! Gar) if soy does slightly lower reproductive hormone stuff, in a good way, I'd like to have more for it to lower not lose it completely. Which I don't.
That sounds like such interesting work and yes, perhaps my info isn't current. I would actually be HUGELY relieved if soy had been actually shown to have no effect at all because I'm tolerant to it in other ways and I love it. It just seemed miiiiighty coincidental and the only change and there are studies at least within the decade on it. If you find out more, please do let me know.
And yes, BMI is very important. My weight didn't change when my periods came back but my soy consumption dropped. Then I thought it was coincidence, started drinking it again and again my weight hasn't moved but it was delayed by 3 weeks. I'm sure there are other factors however . And I'd rather have a midpoint BMI and believe it's necessary but have just been prioritising other things but... this is priority now. Which is what makes it hard. I want to be all laisez-faire and test things out because most probably make no difference but feel like I should stay on the safe side and not 'waste' any months because I can do what I want after I make this happen... But that's crazy because the 'safe side' isn't that cut and dry and I'm losing my mind to figure out what it looks like.
I don't want to miss the boat because I'm experimenting and messing things up and just...bleurgh. I'm only 31 so it's not the last year or anything but that's old enough to feel like this and I have many older friends who are wishing they'd had kids sooner etc. It will only take a few months of missing ovulation or actually having a good cycle and just not getting that lucky before I'm 35 and then older... But I digress...
Ideally.... really hoping that I gain a few kilos now that I'm vegan again and the switch back makes no difference to cycles other than shortening them because I'm eating so much (not that I skimped before!) and thus I also prove this is a good diet. But I am aware that may not happen and there could be something to my food choices... and to my cycle returning with a little butter (which I actually hate) and a few eggs...(but there were other big changes too! Which is why I'm back on board and choosing to believe it was coincidental).

Silva, I'm not, actually! But he's a passionate beer drinker and brewer (and child of an alcoholic...) who cut down to one (over-priced microbrewed...) beer a night a few months ago because we decided it was important short term and after staying with his parents and realising he had to be careful because of his dad. Now he drinks it more like wine (and is happier for it).
Innnnnnteresting!


I can't believe I've suddenly become someone worrying about this. So odd. You spend so much of your youth trying NOT to get pregnant ...
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