The Crime Of Raising Vegan Kids | When Diet Is Deadly - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-18-2016, 10:53 AM
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The Crime Of Raising Vegan Kids | When Diet Is Deadly


Is a vegan diet child abuse? Where is the line between parents’ dietary practices and the government’s duty to protect minors? Following the latest high-profile hospitalization of a vegan child, a bill in Italy aims to make veganism a criminal offense, carrying a sentence of up to 6 years. But with the terrifying rise of life-threatening conditions like childhood obesity and type 2 diabetes, one has to wonder—is their focus all wrong? If we really want to help the most children possible, shouldn’t we look at the main cause of illness and death? In this video, we’ll take a step back from the media flurry and look at the science of how we’re killing our kids.

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#2 Old 08-18-2016, 07:08 PM
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In the United States, parents have the legal right to raise their children on a balanced vegan diet. The United States federal government's nutrition recommendations are 100% accommodating of vegan diets, as long as the vegan diet (1) includes sufficient calories, (2) includes adequate plant protein, grains, fruits, vegetables, and dairy-alternatives, and (3) includes supplements if/as needed.

The "ChooseMyPlate.gov" diagram below shows the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) recommended food groups for people over the age of 2. Notice that there is no "Meat Group". Rather, there is a "Protein Group", which includes legumes, nuts, seeds, and soy products (and also meat): https://www.choosemyplate.gov/protein-foods . Also, the "Dairy Group" now includes calcium-fortified beverages, certain leafy greens, and supplements: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/dairy . Last, but not least, the USDA has a special webpage, just for vegetarian / vegan nutrition: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/tips-vegetarians .



Note that vegan diets for children are not the same as vegan diets for adults. Children need a higher percentage of dietary fat (https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/pregnancy.htm ). Also, high fiber vegan diets can fill up children too quickly (which carries the risk of underconsuming calories). If you are planning to raise your infant / child as vegan, it's advisable to make an appointment with a Registered Dietitian who specializes in pediatric nutrition and in vegetarian nutrition.

In the United States, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through this website: http://www.eatright.org . Just click on the "Find an Expert" button, located in the upper-right-hand portion of the webpage.

In the U.K., you can find a local Registered Dietitian on the Freelance Dietitians website: http://www.freelancedietitians.org/

In New Zealand, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the Dietitians New Zealand website: http://dietitians.org.nz/find-a-dietitian/

In Canada, you can find a local Registered Dietitian at the Dietitians of Canada website: http://www.dietitians.ca/Find-a-Dietitian.aspx

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 08-18-2016 at 07:10 PM.
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#3 Old 08-18-2016, 07:16 PM
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The Canadian government has also voiced approval for properly-planned vegan diets for children. The Ministry of Health, Province of British Columbia, states that children can be healthy on properly-planned vegan diets: http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthtop...=zx3391#zx3396 . It would be difficult for Canada to pass a law against raising kids vegan, when their own health ministry evidently supports vegan diets.

The proposed "no veganism for kids" law in Italy may gather some popular support, but it won't pass scientific scrutiny. Great way to help the public feel less guilty about meat-eating, though.
.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 08-18-2016 at 07:34 PM.
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#4 Old 08-19-2016, 12:16 PM
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A lot of meat eaters do so much complaining about vegans forcing their beliefs onto others and here is a proposed law where meat eaters force their beliefs onto vegans as opposed to just being annoying. When meat eaters complain about vegans they just find them annoying. There are not laws banning meat. Not that it takes much to annoy meat eaters anyway.

There's a YouTube video where people say vegan equivalents of annoying things meat eaters say and one is "There was this couple that fed their baby meat and the baby died!" The ID is 0ikwofGUtYY and title is "If Vegans Said the Stuff Meat-Eaters Say". I don't think I can post URLs since I have not made enough posts yet.

If a baby is fed a diet of only apple juice and dies the problem is insufficient food not insufficient meat. If a baby was fed nothing but meat broth or nothing but Jello people wouldn't want to ban feeding kids meat.
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#5 Old 08-22-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by David3 View Post
In the United States, parents have the legal right to raise their children on a balanced vegan diet. The United States federal government's nutrition recommendations are 100% accommodating of vegan diets, as long as the vegan diet (1) includes sufficient calories, (2) includes adequate plant protein, grains, fruits, vegetables, and dairy-alternatives, and (3) includes supplements if/as needed.

The "ChooseMyPlate.gov" diagram below shows the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) recommended food groups for people over the age of 2. Notice that there is no "Meat Group". Rather, there is a "Protein Group", which includes legumes, nuts, seeds, and soy products (and also meat): https://www.choosemyplate.gov/protein-foods . Also, the "Dairy Group" now includes calcium-fortified beverages, certain leafy greens, and supplements: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/dairy . Last, but not least, the USDA has a special webpage, just for vegetarian / vegan nutrition: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/tips-vegetarians .



Note that vegan diets for children are not the same as vegan diets for adults. Children need a higher percentage of dietary fat (https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/pregnancy.htm ). Also, high fiber vegan diets can fill up children too quickly (which carries the risk of underconsuming calories). If you are planning to raise your infant / child as vegan, it's advisable to make an appointment with a Registered Dietitian who specializes in pediatric nutrition and in vegetarian nutrition.

In the United States, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through this website: http://www.eatright.org . Just click on the "Find an Expert" button, located in the upper-right-hand portion of the webpage.

In the U.K., you can find a local Registered Dietitian on the Freelance Dietitians website: http://www.freelancedietitians.org/

In New Zealand, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the Dietitians New Zealand website: http://dietitians.org.nz/find-a-dietitian/

In Canada, you can find a local Registered Dietitian at the Dietitians of Canada website: http://www.dietitians.ca/Find-a-Dietitian.aspx
Thank you for the additional info!

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Originally Posted by David3 View Post
The Canadian government has also voiced approval for properly-planned vegan diets for children. The Ministry of Health, Province of British Columbia, states that children can be healthy on properly-planned vegan diets: http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthtop...=zx3391#zx3396 . It would be difficult for Canada to pass a law against raising kids vegan, when their own health ministry evidently supports vegan diets.

The proposed "no veganism for kids" law in Italy may gather some popular support, but it won't pass scientific scrutiny. Great way to help the public feel less guilty about meat-eating, though.
.
True. I don't think it will pass by any means. But the media uproar at least allows an opportunity to address this. Especially the universality of all the underlying issues.

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A lot of meat eaters do so much complaining about vegans forcing their beliefs onto others and here is a proposed law where meat eaters force their beliefs onto vegans as opposed to just being annoying. When meat eaters complain about vegans they just find them annoying. There are not laws banning meat. Not that it takes much to annoy meat eaters anyway.

There's a YouTube video where people say vegan equivalents of annoying things meat eaters say and one is "There was this couple that fed their baby meat and the baby died!" The ID is 0ikwofGUtYY and title is "If Vegans Said the Stuff Meat-Eaters Say". I don't think I can post URLs since I have not made enough posts yet.

If a baby is fed a diet of only apple juice and dies the problem is insufficient food not insufficient meat. If a baby was fed nothing but meat broth or nothing but Jello people wouldn't want to ban feeding kids meat.
Ha yes.

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#6 Old 08-22-2016, 10:57 AM
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That is a clear political propaganda. They should arrest parents; they should fire doctors and health visitor, because they failed int heir job. How come a child can lose so much weight or not gain and nobody sets any alarms. And this has nothing to do with Vegan diet; it has to do with bad parenting.

If you give your kid food, he will survive. But parents don't want to bother with food so they buy crap in the store and feed their kids with that, and then bad things happen and it is not only about the vegan child. Because until 8 months many kids don't event eat anything else than vegetables and fruit. So all kids are vegans. And parents that give meat to kids younger than 8 months should be jailed.

I have 11 months vegan boy who loves to eat just like his mom and dad. He has 12 kilos which are at the upper borderline, and he is strong and big and healthy. But the trick is not in the vegan food, fruits, vegetables or whatever he eats (he don't consume industrially processed food at all). The trick is in the mother's milk. He has breast 24/7 at disposal and that's what makes him fit and strong.
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#7 Old 12-06-2016, 08:21 AM
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I have a theory that the reason that vegan children die is because of B12 deficiency. I read a study that says that 62% of pregnant women tested were found to be deficient. It also said that 62-83% of vegans are deficient.

So when those vegan mothers are deficient, they don't pass on B12 to their babies who are then born deficient as well. Because she is deficient, her milk will also not give that baby enough to build up a decent store. A normal baby should be born with about a 4 month supply of B12 in their liver and about the same time that runs out, the high B12 that should be in mothers milk also diminishes drastically and that is something that a Norwegian researcher recently discovered. The thinking is that this is about the time that babies should be starting to get fed 'off of mommies plate' so they'd be getting their B12 supplies thus.

If that mother has decided to not breastfeed, but is giving the baby a commercial soy milk (I think the Italian parents were doing that), even that B12 is actually inaccessible because soy has some properties that actually inhibit the absorption of B12 even for adults. If she is making soy milk from the beans herself, even more of an issue because no B12 is even added.

A lack of B12 in an infants feeding causes failure to thrive, emotional withdrawal, functional problems, etc. In fact there is even evidence that some cases of autism may actually be the result of undiagnosed B12 deficiency and where children are supplemented with B12, many of the physical symptoms become less severe or even disappear even though the mental issues remain the same because the damage to the brain has been done. And the extreme end of 'failure to thrive' is death.

All vegans should be supplementing. And if you are relying on your commercial soy products to provide you with the necessary B12, you should still be supplementing. And you should also supplement hours away from when you are eating your soy products so that the soy isn't interfering with your bodies absorption of the B12 that you are supplementing with. We vegans need to get better at educating one another about the importance of this. Maybe then we wouldn't hear these stupid stories of ex-vegans who felt lousy and went back to eating meat and now are steering people away from veganism.
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#8 Old 12-07-2016, 06:11 AM
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That is a clear political propaganda. They should arrest parents; they should fire doctors and health visitor, because they failed int heir job. How come a child can lose so much weight or not gain and nobody sets any alarms. And this has nothing to do with Vegan diet; it has to do with bad parenting.

If you give your kid food, he will survive. But parents don't want to bother with food so they buy crap in the store and feed their kids with that, and then bad things happen and it is not only about the vegan child. Because until 8 months many kids don't event eat anything else than vegetables and fruit. So all kids are vegans. And parents that give meat to kids younger than 8 months should be jailed.

I have 11 months vegan boy who loves to eat just like his mom and dad. He has 12 kilos which are at the upper borderline, and he is strong and big and healthy. But the trick is not in the vegan food, fruits, vegetables or whatever he eats (he don't consume industrially processed food at all). The trick is in the mother's milk. He has breast 24/7 at disposal and that's what makes him fit and strong.

If you aren't supplementing your kids B12, you can feed him all the food you want and he will not thrive, maybe not even survive. Read this: http://sciencenordic.com/exclusive-b...iciency-babies

New study suggests that after four months, nursing infants may not get enough B12 from nursing and may need to be supplemented or may need to start getting regular food in order to meet their requirements. Also, that doesn't mean relying on soy that is fortified with B12 because as I explained in my previous comment, soy inhibits absorption of B12.
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#9 Old 12-31-2016, 07:06 PM
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If you aren't supplementing your kids B12, you can feed him all the food you want and he will not thrive, maybe not even survive. Read this: http://sciencenordic.com/exclusive-b...iciency-babies

New study suggests that after four months, nursing infants may not get enough B12 from nursing and may need to be supplemented or may need to start getting regular food in order to meet their requirements. Also, that doesn't mean relying on soy that is fortified with B12 because as I explained in my previous comment, soy inhibits absorption of B12.
While I certainly agree pregnant women should supplement B12, the number of vegan children who die is wildly exaggerated and sensationalized. There have also been cases of the children of omnivores dying or being taken away because they fed their children nothing but cows milk before the appropriate age. Babies also can't have honey. The World Health Organization has approved balanced vegan diets for all life stages, including pregnancy and infancy. There are now a sizeable number of vegan adults who have been vegan since birth. Vegan children often test higher on IQ tests in the UK, but correlation is not causation. Some scientists suggest it is because their parents are so intelligent or educated they became vegan, not that veganism raises IQ.
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#10 Old 12-31-2016, 07:36 PM
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A lot of meat eaters do so much complaining about vegans forcing their beliefs onto others and here is a proposed law where meat eaters force their beliefs onto vegans as opposed to just being annoying. When meat eaters complain about vegans they just find them annoying. There are not laws banning meat. Not that it takes much to annoy meat eaters anyway.

There's a YouTube video where people say vegan equivalents of annoying things meat eaters say and one is "There was this couple that fed their baby meat and the baby died!" The ID is 0ikwofGUtYY and title is "If Vegans Said the Stuff Meat-Eaters Say". I don't think I can post URLs since I have not made enough posts yet.

If a baby is fed a diet of only apple juice and dies the problem is insufficient food not insufficient meat. If a baby was fed nothing but meat broth or nothing but Jello people wouldn't want to ban feeding kids meat.
Yes. This reflects the perceived intersectionality with issues like sexism and racism, as well. Like the saying, women are afraid of meeting a man who will rape or kill them, men are afraid of meeting someone fat. Same is true of meat eaters - vegans have legitimate concerns about environmental impact, animal rights and their own rights, and meat eaters are concerned you think they are unhealthy or fat.

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#11 Old 01-01-2017, 07:51 AM
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http://thevegantruth.blogspot.com/20...nce-birth.html
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#12 Old 01-01-2017, 06:37 PM
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While I certainly agree pregnant women should supplement B12, the number of vegan children who die is wildly exaggerated and sensationalized. There have also been cases of the children of omnivores dying or being taken away because they fed their children nothing but cows milk before the appropriate age. Babies also can't have honey. The World Health Organization has approved balanced vegan diets for all life stages, including pregnancy and infancy. There are now a sizeable number of vegan adults who have been vegan since birth. Vegan children often test higher on IQ tests in the UK, but correlation is not causation. Some scientists suggest it is because their parents are so intelligent or educated they became vegan, not that veganism raises IQ.
While it may be 'wildly exaggerated', the fact is that even one vegan child dying 'due to diet' is too many. In July a one year old Italian baby was hospitalized and almost died as a result of nutritional deficiencies on his vegan diet. The previous year (also in Italy) another vegan baby, same situation and in 2011 in France a little girl died as a result of her 'vegan' diet. The result is that Italian lawmakers are mulling over the idea of banning a vegan diet for any child under a certain age.

And yes, babies of omnivores are catching disease from lifestyle (diabetes, obesity, etc) but we are trying to legitimize a fledgling new lifestyle before the world.....and they are keeping track and holding every death against us figuratively speaking. That's why it doesn't hurt to talk about it and to make sure that every parent of vegan children of all ages and particularly infants know to supplement with B12 and to get advice on feeding those infants. Those babies have a smaller margin of error than us grown ups do.

I read a Pubmed page that 'looked at 18 other studies' to discover that between them all, 68-83% of veg's were deficient in B12. And babies can die of B12 deficiency or end up with autism like symptoms. This was the table from that page:
*****

DEFICIENCIES AND WHO’S AT RISK?

A review of eighteen studies shows the following breakdown of who is at risk for B12 deficiencies in the general population:

pregnant women 62%
children 25-86%
Adolescents 21-41%
Seniors 11-90%
Vegetarians/vegans 68-83%

It should be noted that in pregnant women, it is thought that their deficient status may possibly lead to neural tube defects in the unborn, specifically, brain/spina bifida cord defects and there does seem to be some link potentially to autism like symptoms in children.
*****

That table makes it pretty clear that all of us need to be focussing on our B12 levels. Our health, our children health, our lives depend on this vitamin. Take your supplements folks.
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#13 Old 01-05-2017, 06:34 PM
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While it may be 'wildly exaggerated', the fact is that even one vegan child dying 'due to diet' is too many. In July a one year old Italian baby was hospitalized and almost died as a result of nutritional deficiencies on his vegan diet. The previous year (also in Italy) another vegan baby, same situation and in 2011 in France a little girl died as a result of her 'vegan' diet. The result is that Italian lawmakers are mulling over the idea of banning a vegan diet for any child under a certain age.

And yes, babies of omnivores are catching disease from lifestyle (diabetes, obesity, etc) but we are trying to legitimize a fledgling new lifestyle before the world.....and they are keeping track and holding every death against us figuratively speaking. That's why it doesn't hurt to talk about it and to make sure that every parent of vegan children of all ages and particularly infants know to supplement with B12 and to get advice on feeding those infants. Those babies have a smaller margin of error than us grown ups do.

I read a Pubmed page that 'looked at 18 other studies' to discover that between them all, 68-83% of veg's were deficient in B12. And babies can die of B12 deficiency or end up with autism like symptoms. This was the table from that page:
*****

DEFICIENCIES AND WHO’S AT RISK?

A review of eighteen studies shows the following breakdown of who is at risk for B12 deficiencies in the general population:

pregnant women 62%
children 25-86%
Adolescents 21-41%
Seniors 11-90%
Vegetarians/vegans 68-83%

It should be noted that in pregnant women, it is thought that their deficient status may possibly lead to neural tube defects in the unborn, specifically, brain/spina bifida cord defects and there does seem to be some link potentially to autism like symptoms in children.
*****

That table makes it pretty clear that all of us need to be focussing on our B12 levels. Our health, our children health, our lives depend on this vitamin. Take your supplements folks.
Ah yes in a world of 7 billion people three children, in two separate countries, died. This totally warrants the tone of your response.

While I appreciate your mindfulness of B12, there's already enough of this garbage bias in the media without vegans buying into the hype.
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#14 Old 01-05-2017, 06:42 PM
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Yes the mother took prenatal vitamins. In the first world, ALL mothers take prenatal vitamins, unless they are irresponsible. With omnis one of the big issues was folic acid, which is why they started pushing orange juice several decades ago, on pregnant women.

It's really unfortunate that people are sometimes poorly informed, or just crazy. ..but to put this in perspective, up until the 60s mothers were recommended to smoke to give birth to lower weight babies, and in developing countries children die every day from malnutrition, something that could be addressed easily by most people on the planet going vegan, or at least vegetarian...but instead there is this hype instead.

Thanks sharing this, there are actually tons of government and medical information out there about raising vegan children on balanced diets. But it's nice to read personal stories.
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#15 Old 01-06-2017, 02:22 PM
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While it may be 'wildly exaggerated', the fact is that even one vegan child dying 'due to diet' is too many. In July a one year old Italian baby was hospitalized and almost died as a result of nutritional deficiencies on his vegan diet. The previous year (also in Italy) another vegan baby, same situation and in 2011 in France a little girl died as a result of her 'vegan' diet. The result is that Italian lawmakers are mulling over the idea of banning a vegan diet for any child under a certain age.

And yes, babies of omnivores are catching disease from lifestyle (diabetes, obesity, etc) but we are trying to legitimize a fledgling new lifestyle before the world.....and they are keeping track and holding every death against us figuratively speaking. That's why it doesn't hurt to talk about it and to make sure that every parent of vegan children of all ages and particularly infants know to supplement with B12 and to get advice on feeding those infants. Those babies have a smaller margin of error than us grown ups do.

I read a Pubmed page that 'looked at 18 other studies' to discover that between them all, 68-83% of veg's were deficient in B12. And babies can die of B12 deficiency or end up with autism like symptoms. This was the table from that page:
*****

DEFICIENCIES AND WHO’S AT RISK?

A review of eighteen studies shows the following breakdown of who is at risk for B12 deficiencies in the general population:

pregnant women 62%
children 25-86%
Adolescents 21-41%
Seniors 11-90%
Vegetarians/vegans 68-83%

It should be noted that in pregnant women, it is thought that their deficient status may possibly lead to neural tube defects in the unborn, specifically, brain/spina bifida cord defects and there does seem to be some link potentially to autism like symptoms in children.
*****

That table makes it pretty clear that all of us need to be focussing on our B12 levels. Our health, our children health, our lives depend on this vitamin. Take your supplements folks.
Also something meaningful I didn't address last night which I really should have, since everyone here hasn't necessarily taken statistics, though surely some have, is that the stats you posted have wayyy too much variation to carry a great deal of weight (25-86, 11-90??? Are you serious? Where did you get these numbers) ...plus these stats don't tell us if the deficiencies are mild or severe. There's a huge difference between mildly low iron, stopping your menstrual cycle, and having full blown pernicious anemia, if you catch my drift. The variation for vegetarians are still a bit broad, and even low balling at 68%, I want to know who just has B12 that's a tad low, and who is actually suffering neurological damage or giving birth to deformed or dying children. FURTHERMORE, it doesn't say if these stats are for the entire US population, the entire Canadian population, the entire world population. ..or a biased sample from a commune North of San Francisco.

So.

Plus since ALL pregnant women are as high as the low end vegetarians, doesn't this suggest this isn't even a vegan problem, and pregnant women should be taking prenatal vitamins anyway, regardless of being vegan or not.


This could be so varied as to include people actively suffering from malnutrition (if it were world numbers) or if could be so narrow as to only include poor people who are largely uneducated who participate in backpage medical studies for fast cash. And why are so many people B12 deficient in the "general" population if this applies closely to vegans? Is this random sample or systemic?

I'm not even slightly arguing against B12, I'm arguing that these numbers say very little about the population covered by the surveys, and how severe their deficiencies are, and the numbers vary so much as to nearly make them meaningless, at least standing alone they don't say much to support your point.
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#16 Old 01-07-2017, 07:49 PM
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You know what I do Thalassa? I read the studies, look at the tables that the experts formulate, I assume that they took all relevant variables into account because they are the medical experts, came to their conclusions so that I can read those too, and I accept what they say. Then I look at another source, then another credible source until I understand what the consensus is and write up a summary of what I've read. And then I share the information with a brief comment in a place like this.

Sometimes I'll look at two issues that have some connection and then offer a postulation as to what they seem to signify (in my opinion) but based on the reading that I've done.

Reading things like, the autistic society seems to feel that some kids might have autistic like symptoms brought on by B12 deficiency. And then in reading a summation of 18 other studies by medical professionals that point to B12 deficiency in pregnant women.....which by the way came from this Pubmed page https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638. And then considering the question of vegan children who die....

That made me wonder about breast feeding and B12 which took me to a study by a Norwegian researcher who discovered that at about 4 months of age the mothers milk suddenly carries far less B12 and the infants B12 status dropped at the same time. In her mind this coincides with the appropriate time for the mother to begin feeding solids off her own plate.

All of this naturally suggests that if a mother (as suggested by those 18 studies) is functioning in a state of continued B12 deficiency and hasn't been passing on enough to the baby, what will happen to the child if she continues to breast feed almost exclusively is generally called a failure to thrive which can end in death. And in realizing that the infants meager stores will continue to go down as what little is in the liver gets used up I began to think that perhaps the problem in those kids is that B12 was a critical missing nutrient. I believe that an infant whose mother is not deficient, is born with about 25 mcg of B12 stored in its liver compared to the adult who has a storage amount of about 2500. So even though baby is small, even if it had a full 25 mcg, it isn't going to last years. For the infant born deficient to a deficient mother, he is going to do very badly quickly. And in fact, in reading over my notes, one of those children was found to be deficient in B12 and in A, despite being breast fed by his mother. If he was deficient in those nutrients that should have come from his mothers milk, it quickly is apparent that she was one of those pregnant women from the 18 studies.

The upshot of all of this is that I came to the conclusion that veg'n mothers should be supplementing and so should a great many meat eating pregnant women (again, according to the 18 studies) and we need to be helping the newbies to veganism or even vegetarianism to understand that they must supplement.

And as I've already explained, I hate ex-vegan stories and I want us all to succeed and thrive for the sake of the animals. So I think those of us who understand the importance of this vitamin that is not 'within' our plant foods, have a responsibility to the people we're hopefully 'reaching and teaching' and to the animals to bring it up and inform them. And that is why I spent the time studying it out.

The study numbers are theirs. Now that you have the link, if you wanted to you could see from there, if you can track down the studies and check the details to find the answers to your questions.

Last edited by 121938; 01-07-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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#17 Old 01-07-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
Ah yes in a world of 7 billion people three children, in two separate countries, died. This totally warrants the tone of your response.

While I appreciate your mindfulness of B12, there's already enough of this garbage bias in the media without vegans buying into the hype.


Yes 3 children that will be brought up from time to time as a defence against the efficacy of a vegan diet for all ages. "There, see the proof that you can't raise kids on a vegan diet, it ain't healthy, those kids died on it". Remember, meat eaters who challenge will use whatever accusation is available and if they think of it, the kids is always a good one. I now have an answer the next time it comes up because I studied about the problem, put some facts together and came up with a viable explanation.

And one more thing to consider, in Italy, the 2 cases that they had are starting to prompt lawmakers to discuss the idea of banning Italian vegan mothers from giving their kids a vegan diet. That is why it matters.

Quick question to you now, why so aggressive?

Last edited by 121938; 01-07-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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