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-   -   How do veg*ns feel about physical discipline on kids? (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/31-raising-vegetarian-children/138491-how-do-veg-ns-feel-about-physical-discipline-kids.html)

Faceless Taste 12-19-2012 09:26 AM

Just had this thought the other day, and I figured it would make for an interesting conversation.. I was wondering about different veg*n parents viewpoints on disciplining children physically. This might be targeted more for veg*ns who have strong ethical and animal rights feelings, but anyone can join in. So, how do parents feel about hitting/ spanking/ light physical discipline (not beating) on their children, if they do not support any kinds of violence on animals.. Where is the line drawn?

I don't want this to be a crazy chaotic war or debate on how to raise your kids, just honest perspectives.

River 12-19-2012 10:47 AM

I don't have kids, and never will, but it is NEVER okay to dish ouy physical punishment

jpaul 12-19-2012 10:57 AM

I agree with River. It's never OK.


mollycakes 12-19-2012 11:58 AM

It is not okay to go up and smack or physically reprimand an employee or your husband, so you shouldn't do that to your children.

 

Besides, studies have shown that hitting children teaches them nothing about what they have done wrong. Except that they will feel an "ouch" when they do it. It is more valuable a lesson to talk it out with your child and explain why it was wrong or dangerous. I also have had great success with time outs and taking away toys. Kids will remember the trauma, but not the lesson if they are hit.


LedBoots 12-19-2012 01:58 PM

My husband and I are against. We raised two very feisty and intelligent humans to adulthood without hitting them.

ElaineV 12-20-2012 08:52 AM

We are against spanking.

Jenn69 12-20-2012 02:05 PM

My son is 17 and he is really lucky I don't believe in physical punishment :)


4everaspirit 12-20-2012 02:16 PM

I don't have kids. But I wouldn't like to hit them or anything. I saw this couple in the mall who had a roudy kid and I felt like they were about to hit him. They were pulling him around and yanking him back. They didn't but I got so riled and I was ready to go over there and call them out if they had. I dunno, it just bothers me.


ChiKat 12-21-2012 01:35 PM

I am against spanking. Being a nanny for a 3-year old with the most wonderful mother I have ever met only reaffirms this! She TALKS to her child and explains to him why his actions were inappropriate.
He is aware of his feelings, and comments if he's feeling frustrated or sad. He's awesome. smiley.gif

Faceless Taste 12-22-2012 07:42 AM

Great answers, everyone!

Jennifer C 01-15-2013 01:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mollycakes View Post

It is not okay to go up and smack or physically reprimand an employee or your husband, so you shouldn't do that to your children.

 

Besides, studies have shown that hitting children teaches them nothing about what they have done wrong. Except that they will feel an "ouch" when they do it. It is more valuable a lesson to talk it out with your child and explain why it was wrong or dangerous. I also have had great success with time outs and taking away toys. Kids will remember the trauma, but not the lesson if they are hit.

Good thread. Wonder how I missed it. 

 

Anyhow, I agree with mollycakes. If I hit another adult, I could have charges brought against me and even go to jail for assault. I have no clue why in this country it's illegal to hit another adult but it's perfectly fine to hit your child. That's so crazy it's beyond crazy. I wouldn't hit my grandma if she made me upset or my best friend or anyone, so hit my kid, um, no. 

 

Also, I think it shows a total lack of thinking on the parent's part. Let's see, you have no idea how to get your kid to bed - ah ha! Smacking them should work. I'm sorry but physical violence is a sign of someone without the brain power to come up with an actual solution to a problem. AND hitting anyone makes you a big bully. Hitting someone much smaller than you makes you an even worse bully. 

 

Lastly, if you hit kids all they learn is when someone irks them off they should smack them. 

 

You know when I was in college (RN major) in my child health class, the professor asked who thought hitting was a good lesson to teach parents of child clients. Everyone but me (in a class of 40+) thought hitting was an appropriate way to teach children to behave, and this was a class of future nurses! BTW, my professor said, "Jennifer is the only one who is right - as an RN you should encourage parenting methods that do not involve physical punishment." The class disagreed and a super debate happened. It made me sick. 

 

Ok, ranting done. Parents who hit kids is one of my major pet peeves in the parenting world. 


Jennifer C 01-15-2013 01:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Taste View Post

So, how do parents feel about hitting/ spanking/ light physical discipline (not beating) on their children. 

PS - hitting is hitting is hitting in my book. I've had this debate with I can't tell you how many parents and they ALWAYS get angry at me when I say "Spanking" is just a cover word for hitting.

 

So many parents say, "Spanking is NOT hitting" however, if you hit your spouse, and your spouse calls the cops and you say, "Oh, no worry cops, I was just spanking, because my spouse didn't do what I said - it wasn't hitting at all." the cops would laugh you off the planet. 

 

I don't believe there is such a thing as light physical discipline or spanking or what have you. You wouldn't lightly hit an adult and have it be okay so it should be the same with kids. 


vegan cyberpunk 01-15-2013 02:53 AM

I believe some people love to be spanked thought, but that's another story... moonpie.gifwhack.gif

 

i ( obviously ? ) agree with Jennifer.


Marjoram 01-16-2013 08:08 AM

My kid is 11 and explaining and talking is way better. I admit with shame to have spanked him once, can't remember what it was about but my ex was still with us and the everyone's stress level was extreme (even if it's no excuse for violence). I started crying at my action right after, held my kid against my heart and told him I was sorry and explained to him why mommy was frustrated at his action and why I did that. Never happened after. Talking is for me the way to go. It helps the growing child to think about why he was impolite. When it's a mess? Heck have him clean it up! I'm an adult and I make mess sometimes (queen of spilled glasses). I know small kids are sometimes little spoiled brats at the mall. As a parent we have to understand shopping is boring for a kid, so bring a toy or a book (or the DS), make them participate with the shopping list! Don't reward with a bought toy, the kid will expect a toy every time you go out!

 

We are intelligent beings we can adapt and find ways, no matter the child personality, there is always a good way to do things then yelling or spanking. My motto for children education (my ex was NOT in agreement with me on that, many disputes about it) is: FOLLOW YOUR HEART! It served me well so far.


Jennifer C 01-16-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjoram View Post

My kid is 11 and explaining and talking is way better. I admit with shame to have spanked him once, can't remember what it was about but my ex was still with us and the everyone's stress level was extreme (even if it's no excuse for violence). I started crying at my action right after, held my kid against my heart and told him I was sorry and explained to him why mommy was frustrated at his action and why I did that. Never happened after. Talking is for me the way to go. It helps the growing child to think about why he was impolite. When it's a mess? Heck have him clean it up! I'm an adult and I make mess sometimes (queen of spilled glasses). I know small kids are sometimes little spoiled brats at the mall. As a parent we have to understand shopping is boring for a kid, so bring a toy or a book (or the DS), make them participate with the shopping list! Don't reward with a bought toy, the kid will expect a toy every time you go out!

 

We are intelligent beings we can adapt and find ways, no matter the child personality, there is always a good way to do things then yelling or spanking. My motto for children education (my ex was NOT in agreement with me on that, many disputes about it) is: FOLLOW YOUR HEART! It served me well so far.

I don't believe in hitting as noted above, but honestly, I'd rather hear that you hit your kid because the stress level was high and it was nuts than you just carefully chose to hit him.

 

To me, it really makes sense that a parent might lose it for a minute - I've never hit my son, but I yelled pretty loud a few times (something I also don't think you should do) - felt bad and apologized after. We all lose it from time to time. Well, most of us I'd guess. 

 

What gets me are people who hit their kid as a carefully planned out punishment process. Like parents have told me, "Spanking is fine if you're not mad, and you tell the child why you're spanking them. Then it's spanking with love!" WTF?

 

Seriously, if someone hit me, I'd much rather have them hit me in the heat of anger than while they're calm and could totally think of something else to do. Hitting kids makes no sense. Hitting kids while 100% "loving and calm" about it, is insanely nuts because physical punishment is neither lovable or calm. How confusing for a kid is that! 

 

It sucks your ex was not on board with your parenting methods. I'm lucky I guess, my ex was/is lame if you're his partner, but was on board with my parenting plan for the most part. He wouldn't hit a child either. 


mollycakes 01-16-2013 01:13 PM

The absolute worst thing is that I run into so many parents that regularly spank their kids and slap their hands. I see it at toddler play places, playdates, etc... I absolutely do not know what to say. This girl I know (who frequents places I take my kids to) says she smacks her kids when they are being bad. And I've seen her do it. She also says she smacks them if they are in danger, like if they were about to touch a hot oven or something. I just nod and change the subject, but I kind of want to smack her.

The danger thing. I think so many parents use this as an excuse to hit their kids. I'm sorry, but how on earth is a child supposed to understand why they shouldn't touch a hot item or run into a parking lot if they just get smacked every time for it? Wouldn't talking to them and giving them an understanding of why it is dangerous solve the problem?

I've resorted to unusual parenting techniques to teach my kids why things are dangerous. I wouldn't hesitate to show my son what a skin burn looks like on the internet and tell him that it will happen if he touches something hot. Show him all the topical creams and bandaids we would have to use, even tell him he might have to go to the hospital. He would totally get and understand that. I've done things like that in the past. It actually works. Once I showed him a video of a crash test dummy not properly fastened in a carseat, because he kept messing with the clips and undoing them while I was driving. It worked.
 


LedBoots 01-16-2013 05:08 PM

I once had my son throw a cantaloupe from my parents' 6th floor balcony to stop him from climbing on the fence. tongue3.gif

goby 01-16-2013 08:56 PM

As a family law attorney,I've dealt with the issue several times.  I've yet to meet a counselor, judge, or court mediator who thinks spanking is acceptable.  The only group I've dealt with who finds it acceptable are Fundamental Christians. I'm sure there are others, but some of them seem to think that it's fine, and quote bible verses to support their position.  One even suggested hot sauce on their child's tongue as appropriate punishment.   

My son is 11 and I've never hit him.  


Marjoram 01-19-2013 06:23 PM

My son brought back horror stories from school. He said one of his friend is terrified of not performing in class because his mother drips hot oil on his fingers if he gets home with a notice for talking too much, or a bad score. The kid showed my son his scab. My son said he replied right away that it was torture and that it was illegal. The kid said, well in my country it's like that...

 

Yes I wrote a note to the teacher. My kid was shocked by that. I told him to keep an eye on his friend from now on. And yes, since my ex left us almost 3 years ago now, we are super zen and much more happy, the only stress is when we took too much time talking over breakfast and he's almost late for school LOL. We all have bad days, no one is perfect, I believe that telling the kids that mom or dad is tired or stressed or just need some quiet time is far better then being snappy and the children have no idea what they did wrong.


SepiaRoses 01-19-2013 11:51 PM

I don't have children and don't plan on having any, but my two cents regarding the issue is that I think it is a lazy, uninformed, and harmful way to raise a child. There's just so many other ways to get across the message of a kid's behavior being wrong, i.e. sending the child to their room, taking away toys and various privileges (TV, computer, video games), etc. I know I'm not a parent and maybe some parents feel that folks without kids can't really talk but I just feel there's little excuse for this. I understand that many parents do this out of frustration but when a parent feels that they're becoming that upset, they need to step away and cool off, not attack a child.


Faceless Taste 01-20-2013 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SepiaRoses View Post

.... I understand that many parents do this out of frustration but when a parent feels that they're becoming that upset, they need to step away and cool off, not attack a child.

Well said. You don't need to be a parent to know when to step away, it should be like that in any situation where you're mature enough and have enough common sense to know to walk away and not become physical, or in regards to emotional/verbal remarks as well, because that's not appropriate, nor excusable.

mollycakes 01-20-2013 11:38 AM

Sometimes I realize that when I am angry and frustrated at my children, it is because of something internal, and not really anything they are doing. For example, on a day when my back is killing me, and I feel like I cannot climb the stairs one more time, my son declares that he NEEDS his blue socks instead of his green socks and pitches a fit when I say no.

It is that moment that I want to hit him (of course I would never, but the thought crosses my mind sometimes). But it is because my back is hurting and I don't want to go upstairs and get them. It is my problem, not his- he isn't doing anything wrong other than asking for different socks. Which probably seems pretty reasonable to a 3 year old to be able to request.

Sometimes I have to check myself, and evaluate my anger, then I am able to cool down.

If more parents did this, I bet they wouldn't be hitting their kids.
 


SepiaRoses 01-20-2013 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Taste View Post


Well said. You don't need to be a parent to know when to step away, it should be like that in any situation where you're mature enough and have enough common sense to know to walk away and not become physical, or in regards to emotional/verbal remarks as well, because that's not appropriate, nor excusable.

 

Exactly. thumbsup.gif


frame69 01-21-2013 06:03 AM

Smacking a child or indeed any person/animal smaller than yourself can be a sign of low intelligence and anger issues. The town I live in has several thousand visitors per year,half of them children.  The place is full of resturants and  art galleries. This is not a place for children to spend their holidays...its incredibly boring hence when kids get bored they start to complain,wind up the parents and thats when the shouting starts.  Kids start crying,losing their temper then the parents do likewise. I have only ever stepped in once, a woman being physical with her hysterical 3/4 year old girl,shaking the pushchair and grabbing her roughy I couldn't ignore it so went over to calm things down only to be set upon by the mother and seconds later the father threatened me with violence. I took out my camera phone and pressed record (by this time others were doing the same) focusing on the by now messy/f**ked up little girl. This action by me and then others around me made the family move on. I followed them for the next 30 minutes until they left town. With  my then current court order for fighting at a local bar it was very fortunate that the father didnt get physical as it would have been me in the **** when the rollers turned up.sad.gif   A scary moment indeed,I was still shaking an hour later.I have noticed a decrease in bad tempered parents in my locality in the last few years,it has become something that people dont like to see and will step in to calm things down. Occasionaly a parent will say 'mind your business,its my kid'.  Thankfully it dont happen too often. In the UK physical discipline is on the way down as far as Im aware.

 

Frame.


Shadowlock 01-21-2013 06:42 AM

I used to be smacked/physically punished as a kid in tandem with a poor upbringing. I can say as a product of spanking in every sense, from lightly to beaten, that it's not ok. There are times when I see it being done that I get a mental jolt of panic, remembering how scared I was when it was happening to me as well as empathizing with the abused.

 

We raise our kids that it's not ok to hit others and doing so can get you into a lot of trouble. So why would it be allowed at home?

 

I used to work in retail where I've seen a lot of abuse. There was one instance I'll never forget and it wasn't necessarily the worst I've seen. It connected with me because I watched a lady pull a little girl about 3 or 4 by her hair to direct her where to go and discourage her away from things. This was the method most used on me since I've always had long hair so it was always an easy handle. The lady didn't pull really hard but I knew it hurt. I watched the quiet girl stand on her toes each time to lessen the pain. I never wanted to punch someone so hard in my life.

 

In short, physical abuse has no place in advanced society. We should be able to settle and communicate our problems instead of resorting to cheap violence.


Marjoram 01-21-2013 07:55 AM

Quote:

They noted that when parents in more than 500 families were trained to reduce their use of physical punishment, the difficult behaviours in the children also declined. source: CBC News

 

IMHO nothing positive comes out of violence, good thing old ways are changing!


Jennifer C 01-21-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mollycakes View Post

 

Sometimes I have to check myself, and evaluate my anger, then I am able to cool down.

If more parents did this, I bet they wouldn't be hitting their kids.
 

I agree with this statement a lot. I think some parents run into the issue of feeling angry and simply not knowing how to deal with it - even when that anger/stress/sadness is not related to your kid.


MaeBeeJune 03-11-2013 03:55 PM

We don't spank.

Sauerkraut 03-12-2013 02:12 PM

Way I see it children follow the example of their parents whether they like it or not. So all your doing is teaching children that violence is a good way to deal with bad behaviour in others.


peapicker 03-17-2013 08:15 PM

No spanking, hitting whatsoever. I raised a son (he's 27 now), who could be a holy terror at times, but never spanked. Cranky kid equals kid who needs a nap or is hungry. My son always needed a lot of outdoor play time. He was very active. He actually reminded me of a puppy. Lots of fresh air and physical activity was needed. Feed kids a healthy diet and limit television and computer time.
 



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