My veg driving a wedge into my marriage. Advice? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-11-2003, 01:48 AM
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When I first went vegan, I promised that I would not nag, complain or otherwise insist that my husband give up meat.



But lately... I've been feeling a bit offended that he won't even consider it. He still brings meat into the house (HE cooks it), and he never shares my vegan meals. He won't try them.



He's a very compassionate, sensitive fellow with a strong love for animals. And I inform him (frequently) about the horrors of the meat industry. But his love for eating meat is stronger than his sympathy for animals. And he hates veggies. He eats green beans, peas, limas, rice, potatoes and sometimes corn. Other than that, he refuses to eat almost any other plant product. He doesn't even like pasta!



I'm starting to feel a bit hurt about the whole thing. He knows how strongly I feel about this. He knows that I believe that God has called me to start a local campaign for animal rights. (Sounds hokey, maybe, but I think it's true.) He knows that his eating meat just tears me up.



I want to compromise and respect his opinions and values, but I just feel so angry and offended sometimes. We don't have kids, but we plan to have them, and their future "diet" is a whole other issue!



Divorce is out of the question, by the way. I'm wholly committed to my marriage.



Any advice?
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#2 Old 10-11-2003, 08:32 AM
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This reminds me of that old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Ultimately, no matter how much information you provide him or how you feel, the decision to make change has to come from within himself. Realizing this will help to ease some of your frustration. You are in control of you alone. That said, you need to lead by example. And more than likely over time he will start to make a connection between the animals and what he is eating. You must give him room to do this though in backing as far off the subject of vegetarianism and his diet (unless he genuinely has questions).



Sit down with him first though and explain that you believe he will realize (now that you've given him all of this information) that he needs time to relate this back to himself in order to make change. Let him know that you'll not discuss it anymore unless he brings it up. And when you do speak with him, be careful on how you phrase things. Make sure it's about how you feel; not necessarily what he should do. If he loves you and respects you he will react accordingly. He will automatically be feeling a bit defensive because he knows continuing to eat animals is wrong. You pointing this out to him give him a chance to make you 'the bad guy' instead of really reflecting on himself. Don't let him deflect his guilt on you.



Lastly, the two of you really need to agree on how your children will be raised on most aspects (not just this one) before you conceive. If he's dead set on them being omni's right now, and you are dead set on them not being omni's, wait a while to have a child.



People evolve. I did. My current omni boyfriend is in the process (after over a year) of modifying what he eats to contain less animals. He's working his way toward being a vegetarian too. The advice I've given you is how I handled your very situation. It seems to be working. Hopefully you'll have luck with him too!
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#3 Old 10-11-2003, 09:20 AM
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I agree with everything Ruthie said. Everyone comes into vegetarianism at their own pace, if they come to it at all, and you've got to respect this when it comes to your hubby. I think that if you don't *try* to push him into it he will be much more willing to give it a try than if you do try to push him into it. When people feel pressured they tend to get defensive and stick to their guns more.



Plus, it sounds like he respects your lifestyle and doesn't give you grief about it, so it would only make sense to do the same in return. If his eating meat offends you to the point that you don't want to watch him do it, maybe sit down with him and let him know this, though. Ask him if there's any way you can compromise, like him only eating meat outside of the house or when you're not around.



Good luck!
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#4 Old 10-11-2003, 09:24 AM
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Well said. Love him in while you accept him as he is. This decision we omnis to veg*ns made didn't happen until we personally internalized the pain of animals. He will have to come to that point for himself. Anything you do to rush that will have negative consequences. If you love him, isn't he worth waiting for?
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#5 Old 10-11-2003, 10:27 AM
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As long as he is willing to let you raise your children as vegetarians, I would just try not to think about what he eats. I guess that would be where I wouldn't compromise. I would have that all worked out, before I even THOUGHT about becoming pregnant.



Although my husband had a taste for meat, I think he always believed that a vegetarian diet was healthier, so he had absolutely no problem with my raising our children that way.



Good-luck
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#6 Old 10-11-2003, 01:31 PM
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cshives; meals are an intimate part of the marriage relationship. STOP informing him about the horrors of meat. You know that he hates veggies and pasta. So you know that you are asking him to give up both the fellowship of the meal with you and the few foods he is willing to like. I am trying to imagine how I would feel if my husband insisted on informing me of the plight of migrant workers, the horror of pesticides on birds, the greed of the agro industry, the battle with rodents in grains, the allowable percentage of rodent and insect feces in many vegetable and grain products, or the crushing damage done to the land and water when chemical fertilizers are used. If he were telling me all of this to get me to stop eating the way that I do I would become VERY stubborn. At one point my husband said something that to me was completely crazy about being a veg head and giving money to a save the whales group must mean that I am really in favor of abortion (in 25 years of marriage we have consistently stood against abortion so this cut deep) and he just could not live with me if that was the case. He has deeply apologized and no longer talks crazy nor cooks any meat or dairy.



What compromise are you willing to make? Can he trust that? Is he really more to you then what he puts into his mouth? I would personally lay off of the God has called me . talk and simply obey what God has called you to. It would be easy to slide into trying to manipulate him into eating vegan by insinuating that God agrees with you. There is no sin in eating flesh. It may be heart breaking but it is not sin.



My I humbly suggest that you place your hurt into Gods able hand and not at all in your husbands face? I am sure he knows where you stand and his heart will grow more callous over this issue the longer you use this to manipulate him. Would you change because of manipulation? You chose this man and made your vow before God to love, honor and respect him. Be as committed to him as you are to the marriage. Sometimes the subtle change in focus is important.



Any advice?

Ephesians 5:22-24

1 Timothy 3:11

1 Peter 3:1-2

Proverbs 3:5-7

Bake bread (machines are great, so are quick breads like Irish soda and biscuits) Have the table set and the house filled with the scent of food ready to serve. Do not insist that he eat what you have prepared and have your heart and mind ready to make the few minutes after he walks in the door all about how much you care about him and his day. Accept him where he is even though you care too much to leave him there.
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#7 Old 10-11-2003, 03:53 PM
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Great advice Ruthie. Kids with omni/veg*an parents. As Ruthie said, you both should talk about this *before* having kids. I think I wouldn't accept my kids to eat meat unless they're adults and can make their choices.



I don't know if this wil be helpful, but I found that acting as if we were school teachers or moms, drives our boyfriends/husbands mad. They don't listen, they feel attacked, they don't pay attention to what we say because they feel we are trying to "correct" them. I found that talking to my hubby in a friendly way and making spare comments about this and that once in a while is better. Mine doesn't have to defend his position, he just says "uhh, that's not good/how bad/ohhh", instead of "don't start with that again/don't tell me what to do". I sometimes make comments about how good and strong I feel, how great this change has been for my body, how regularized my intestines are now and how healthy I feel. Something that I'm sure will make almost every man want to change their eating behaviour, is when you talk about veg*anism and sexual performance. If everything else doesn't work, maybe this can work things out a bit
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#8 Old 10-11-2003, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsRuthieB View Post

He will automatically be feeling a bit defensive because he knows continuing to eat animals is wrong.



I disagree. Thats a huge assumption. Many people do not agree that eating meat is wrong. Even animal lovers. Although that may seem weird to us (I'm vegan myself), it is a very common idea.



I don't think omni people in relationships with vegans automatically feel anything is wrong with their behavior. Nor should they. We all have issues that feel closer to us than others, and we all have areas where we can improve.



My husband is omni and while I go through an occasional gross out, and we talk about it, I keep my mouth shut mostly. More than anything, I am grateful

that after being married only 2 months, my decision to become vegan was fully supported. Many husbands would freak out. My best friend just started working at WHOLE FOODS and becoming more conscious. She thought she would make an effort to buy eggs from more conscious farmers, or something like that. Her husband threw a fit about that. She wasn't even cutting any foods out. We are LUCKY to have such understanding spouses.



More than anything, I think we need to get a serious reality check on our own flaws before we go preaching to others. Just as I might think someone should be vegan, somebody else could tell me that I should not wear a fancy diamond or buy stuff made in China. WE ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE FOR MAKING A CHOICE THAT IS RIGHT FOR US.



This is why I dont hang out with animal rights people. As a whole, I find this kind of superiority complex very tiring. Its certainly not a step on my buddhist path to congratulate myself over and over and look at others like people "on the way" to becoming like me.



Please honor your promise not to nag. It will make both of you happier. I think the secret to being married is to allow eachother to grow and not force someone into your ideas.



Good luck, and congrats on finding a good one who lets you be yourself!



XOXO

Beth
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#9 Old 10-11-2003, 06:27 PM
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I try not to nag and I never mention it during meals... it's usually a "listen to what I read about today" type of conversation. I understand he has to come into this--if he ever does--on his own terms. I suspect the deeper issue here is just me dealing with my hurt feelings. In some ways I've altered my life (moved to a new state, quit some of my bad habits) simply because I knew it would make him happy, so I have to wonder why he won't do the same in return. I quit smoking, for example, because he constantly nagged at me to quit because of my health. I knew it meant something to him, so I did it. I suppose I feel angry because I don't feel as if I'm getting the same consideration. He asked me to change a habit--and addiction, really. Is what I'm asking so different?



And I don't think I'm superior than he... nor that he should take this path because it makes him a "better person." I just feel like he could go further than just respecting MY choice to be vegan when he knows how strongly I feel about it. I knew he'd support me if I changed my lifestyle... he's that kinda guy.



I suppose I should just be happy he's not throwing a fit that we have to cook two different meals...
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#10 Old 10-11-2003, 08:44 PM
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It's so nice that you are so totally commited to your marriage, it gives me a very hopeful feeling, since that is just the kind of marriage I am aiming for too someday...Just fabulous!
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#11 Old 10-12-2003, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dakinirawk View Post

I disagree. Thats a huge assumption. Many people do not agree that eating meat is wrong.



From her original post: He's a very compassionate, sensitive fellow with a strong love for animals. And I inform him (frequently) about the horrors of the meat industry. But his love for eating meat is stronger than his sympathy for animals.



He know's it's wrong to continue to eat the animals. I didn't assume.
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#12 Old 10-12-2003, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cshives View Post

snip.... I suspect the deeper issue here is just me dealing with my hurt feelings. In some ways I've altered my life (moved to a new state, quit some of my bad habits) simply because I knew it would make him happy, so I have to wonder why he won't do the same in return. I quit smoking, for example, because he constantly nagged at me to quit because of my health. I knew it meant something to him, so I did it. I suppose I feel angry because I don't feel as if I'm getting the same consideration. He asked me to change a habit--and addiction, really. Is what I'm asking so different?



This is so much easier to understand then what appeared to be a question of moral high ground in your original post. Thank you.



You can state to him just what you have said here, that you have made many changes in your life only because they were important to him and that it hurts you that what you want and value are not important enough to him as what he wants is to you.



You can state that, but you cannot restate that. Once that ball is in his court you can no longer put anymore spin on it. Leave it alone. Give him time to chew on it without feeling like he needs to endure punishment or manipulation from you. At the risk of being offensive, guys are slow and they don't want to discuss why.



You have already said you are thankful for what you have, rest in that for the time being.



Godspeed,

Kamila... who has lived this dilemma, 26 years before he gave up flesh. Now he is rather more of a zealot than I. Who knew. Hangeth thou in there.
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#13 Old 10-13-2003, 09:53 AM
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dak writes:

===========

WE ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE FOR MAKING A CHOICE THAT IS RIGHT FOR US.

===============



It is one thing to choose to be veg or vegan, and go to the trouble of eating a diet that is different than other people's in order to spare animals of suffering, by not eating them. But in my opinion you can go further than this: you can also choose your friends and associates that help spare animals of suffering also. This has a synergistic effect, more than the sum of each of you working alone. However choosing people who eat animals has a counteractive effect -- it makes it more difficult for you to go on being a veg*n, and requires an expense of spirit that takes away from your ability to do as many things for animals that you might be able to, if you were alone or with other veg*ns. The fact that you did not go further, indicates that you are not willing to do as much for animals as you could. Since this is what you are doing, choosing not to do as much for animals as you could, it there makes no sense to accuse your husband of not doing enough for animals, of not doing as much for animals as he could.



If we really want to make a change in the way animals are treated, we will not limit ourselves to simply not eating them; we will also limit our associations with other people, to other people who also do not eat animals. You say you cannot divorce your husband. What this indicates to me is that you value marriage vows more than you value the lives of animals. Which is the way you are, and I can't change you. I am only suggesting that if you don't want me, or others, to accuse you of not doing enough for animals, and if you don't want us trying to change your actions, by asking you to get divorced, and repeatedly bringing up the subject of maybe you should get divorced, perhaps you should not be expecting your husband to change his actions.
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#14 Old 10-13-2003, 02:46 PM
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Interesting argument, Soilman, but I have to disagree. I would tend to think that I can do more for animals by choosing omni friends and associates. This way, when a conversation about animals arises, I can (gently and in a non-threatening manner) inform them about animal rights. Many, many of my omni friends are really unaware of the horrors in the meat/dairy industry. They're completely unaware about the hormones in their food, the diseased animals that pass the USDA inspections, etc. While I don't expect to "change" them, I am informing/educating them, which can only help the plight of animals. What would be the point of discussing animal rights with people who are already vegan? It would be like preaching to the choir.



Edited to add: By the way, I never said I was perfect or pure. Is anyone, really? But I do think we should all do the best we can within our own value system.
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#15 Old 10-13-2003, 02:50 PM
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I wouldn't suggest not discuss animal rights with non-veg*ns, who you are acquainted with, I would simply suggest not having close intimate relations with them, having them as friends, having day-after-day relations with them. having them as acquaintences is a fine idea.
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#16 Old 10-13-2003, 04:58 PM
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Soilman,

I don't intend to flame, but I have yet to find anyone on these boards with such an extreme viewpoint. I can't imagine how anyone living like you do promote is: a) happy and b) a functional member of society.



separatism sucks and teaches no one anything. meat eaters will not stop eating meat because you are not friends with them. to the contrary, it will add one more piece of evidence that vegans are judgemental extremists and "different" than everyone else.



there is a lot to be learned from others, even meat eaters. I have one vegan friend. while we feel strongly about this issue, it is also extremely valid in our american culture where we are raised eating meat to not question that.



I just don't agree that we should force our views on everyone that we meet. I think that it gives us all a bad name and is obnoxious, bad behavior.



XOXOXO

Beth
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#17 Old 10-13-2003, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsRuthieB View Post

From her original post: He's a very compassionate, sensitive fellow with a strong love for animals. And I inform him (frequently) about the horrors of the meat industry. But his love for eating meat is stronger than his sympathy for animals.



He know's it's wrong to continue to eat the animals. I didn't assume.





I think we are interpreting this differently. I see where you got that, but to me there is nothing in there that says "my husband feels guilty for eating meat." or "he knows eating meat is wrong." That last sentence sounded like her assessment of the situation. At least, thats how I took it.



I know it sounds crazy to us vegans, but esp. in texas, I meet all kinds of people who are "animal lovers" and have tons of dogs they treat like kids, but eat all kinds of meat. They just don't view things the way we do. I am glad that vegetarianism at least is getting more and more mainstream, but the fact is that many very caring loving people do not make the connection between pets and eating meat. Or they have other reasons, religious or otherwise, that make them think differently. Some believe all the "nutrition" stuff they hear about how they need meat. Regardless, I dont think compassionate and vegan are synonyms.



But I see where you are coming from too Ruthie. Its vague as to whether it was him admitting something or her assessing something.



XOXO

beth
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#18 Old 10-13-2003, 05:07 PM
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What this indicates to me is that you value marriage vows more than you value the lives of animals.



How would getting a divorce help animals? This is a bizarre arguement, implying that somehow by divorcing this man, he will become vegan. Or threatening divorce will make him vegan?



If we run away from everyone who doesn't act like us, we'll only make veganism more hidden.



I say keep going to the potlucks and let all the omnis fight over your awesome vegan cookies! then they will realize that vegan food tastes good and they can help animals without giving up flavor or texture.



XOXO

beth
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#19 Old 10-13-2003, 05:49 PM
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The primary cause of death and harm to animals is people raising food animals and eating them. http://www.materials.addr.com/helpanimals.html



cshives writes:

===============

I would tend to think that I can do more for animals by choosing omni friends and associates. This way, when a conversation about animals arises, I can (gently and in a non-threatening manner) inform them about animal rights. Many, many of my omni friends are really unaware of the horrors in the meat/dairy industry.

==========



Huh? You don't seem to be doing a very good job. Your husband must be aware of animal rights by now, and the horrors of the animal husbandry business. Yet he hasn't changed his eating habits, and doesn't even think it is possibility that he ever might.



I'm not advocating complete separatism Dak. Just not having omnis for intimates, "close friends." Business associates are fine, casual acquantences with neigbors and local merchants are fine, as are associations with relatives that started before you went veg. But marriage partners, friend who you frequently share meals with or go places with -- no.



I didn't say anything about forcing our views on people? where did you get that from, dak?
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#20 Old 10-13-2003, 06:16 PM
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dak writes:

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I say keep going to the potlucks and let all the omnis fight over your awesome vegan cookies! then they will realize that vegan food tastes good and they can help animals without giving up flavor or texture.

=============



cshives writes -- in re to her own husband:

=====================

..he never shares my vegan meals. He won't try them.

=================



Doesn't seem likes it's working, Dak.
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#21 Old 10-13-2003, 07:37 PM
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Nobody likes it when their significant other nags them constantly about something. Like Kamila said though, you have to let him know how you feel about how you quit smoking for him and yet he won't even try your vegan food. If he would just eat vegan with you at home and possibly consider going veg*n that would be all you would want. Don't pressure him about it after that, just let him think about it for a while. Either he will do it or he won't. Depending on how important it is to you, you will have to decide what to do if he decides not to.



I also agree with Soilman, to a point. Being a veg*n is a huge lifestyle change/choice. If he can't agree to at least eat vegan with you at home or let you raise your children vegan, you're not going to be happy. It's going to cause a lot of heartache down the road for you both (and your future children). Being a veg*n is like being religious--it's very difficult to make a marriage work if you have different religions and different values/morals. It's possible, but it might take a lot more out of you both than you want to invest. However, that being said, you've both committed to each other to be married. That's a very important thing and it shouldn't be taken lightly at all. IMO, you both need to reach a compromise and trading your quitting smoking for him eating veg*n at home seems like a very fair trade to me.
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#22 Old 10-13-2003, 09:24 PM
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its odd that he won't try the vegan food. I didn't see that line obviously.



My husband eats all kinds of vegan stuff. He just cooks meat for himself sometimes and if he cooks for us both, he always makes something for me thats vegan. For example, we often eat noodle soup with vegetables. he takes the ramen without the flavor packet, seasons it with thom yum sauce or something like that, adds a bunch of fresh veggies and tofu and in his he might have some fish also. he just makes two pots. its never a question that if he cooks, he will make something I can eat or make two things.



my husband loves my cooking, so it works out rather well actually. to be honest, and maybe this sounds weird. I find the two meal thing to be the biggest strain on living with an omni. In my case, I don't have that. When I cook, its vegan, and he digs it. I dated a "meat and potatoes guy" once when I was a lot younger and vegetarian (not vegan). it was like some major sacrifice if he had soy tacos with me. LAME. that **** is definetly annoying.



either he is just seriously biased against veggie food (has a bad notion of it) or its quite possible that he's retaliating for being bullied or nagged. For example, perhaps he thinks if he eats the vegan food and likes it, you'll start in on him again. "you see! its really good. you should really consider being vegan, etc etc." or its a way for him to exert some control on the situation.

I could be way off base here, but I'm trying to think of possibilities.



regardless, I think my situation would be intolerable if my husband was biased against even eating vegan food. it seems immature. like a chef boy ar dee kind of eater, if they wont even try it. my friend's got a husband that will only eat hot dogs, burritos, and totino's pizza rolls. I could NOT live with some who ate like that.



So I hand it to you guys on this point. Cuz someone who has to have separate meals because they wont even taste your food....no way.



XOXO

beth
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#23 Old 10-13-2003, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

dak writes:

==============

I say keep going to the potlucks and let all the omnis fight over your awesome vegan cookies! then they will realize that vegan food tastes good and they can help animals without giving up flavor or texture.

=============



cshives writes -- in re to her own husband:

=====================

..he never shares my vegan meals. He won't try them.

=================



Doesn't seem likes it's working, Dak.



You're right, Soilman. It DOES seem to work with me however. People go "wow, this is awesome!" and are genuinely surprised. I think the word "vegan" makes a lot of people think "bland." I remember subconsciously thinking that even as a vegetarian. Ive noticed that a lot of things that are vegan don't say "vegan" on the packaging. Even from companies who make things for the vegetarian/vegan community. I think its because the majority of veggies are vegetarian with biases toward "vegan" as well. This is merely a theory right now, but if I as a vegetarian thought vegan probably tasted bad, to a meat eater it sounds like we eat only barley and wheat germ. So, its been fun for me to debunk all kinds of myths. I love to cook and I love to show people that you can make just about anything vegan. When I became vegetarian and then years later became vegan, I always felt like I GAINED better food not lost anything.



Before I became vegan, I always thought it would be so hard. You're right in the fact that many people are not influenced and aren't going to make the switch. However, I do believe people who are vegetarian and considering making the switch can benefit from seeing how easy it really is. I know many of my vegetarian friends have considered becoming vegan. I'd like to think friday night dinners at my house (I cook vegan and we watch movies) might influence them. Regardless, its nice to share a cruelty free meal with people that everyone enjoys. Perhaps in the future, conditions will come together that motivate them to change and my influence can play a role. Or maybe they have children or relatives who are vegan and will show them more acceptance.



My next project is to make a tofu chocolate pie and some chocolate chip cookies for the next teacher potluck at school. Then not tell anyone its vegan until people eat it. hehehe. I am deliberately never bringing a salad to one of those events, as it just reinforces the idea that all we can eat is salad.



XOXO

beth
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#24 Old 10-13-2003, 10:41 PM
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It is kinda childish that he won't try different types of food. I doubt it has anything to do with my becoming vegan... he never experimented with food. He was a picky eater even as a child. I've always tried to encourage him to eat more vegetables just for the health aspect, but he won't evem try 'em. He's quite stubborn, really.



Right now I just say "mmmmmm...." everytime I eat something particularly delectable--and vegan, of course. Hopefully he'll decide to try a taste just to see what he's missing!
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#25 Old 10-14-2003, 12:03 AM
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cshives, I just past my 15th year wedding anniversary (which absolutely floors me - I'm not old enough to be married 15 years, darn it!), and if there is one thing that I have learned from my marriage experience it is this:



You cannot change your significant other. Period. The more that you prompt them to change, the more resentment is formed within yourself when they won't do what YOU want them to do. This is especially true for women.



Let's look at it this way: he has absolutely no issue with this - it's not bugging him. He's not sweating over it. He's not letting it affect his life. It is only bothering YOU.



If you want to have a happy marriage, you must drop this. There is an old addage that talks about how women marry men hoping that they will change, and that men marry women hoping that they won't. I have stopped trying to change my husband. I have accepted the fact that, if some idea comes from me, he definitely won't listen to it. It's just a part of the package.



You say that he's very limited in the food that he likes, that he doesn't like veggies, and that you have always tried to encourage him to eat more veggies. This makes you sound like his mother, not his life partner. Keep in mind that you chose him, knowing that this was part of the package. You knew this going in, and you don't have the right to change the playing field unilaterally. On top of just changing the rules, you are now getting mad at him because he isn't playing by the new rules. Sorry, most husbands are like that. It's part of the bargain.



My husband and I almost came to a divorce back in 1994. I can't even remember why, really. I just know that it seemed like we hated each other. Everything about him bugged me. We moved past that, and I have found that the only way for me to be happy is to do my own thing, and to let him do his own thing.



BTW, someone up there in the posts mentioned that they would not raise their child omni. I have news for you, as little and helpless as they seem, there will come a point where it's not a decision that you will be able to make because they won't allow it. My daughter is the biggest pain in the butt about eating. She's as healthy as she can be BUT if she doesn't like something OR if she just doesn't like the look of something or the idea of something, forget it. She won't eat it. She doesn't care what threat I put out there, or what I tell her, she has figured out that it is her mouth, her stomach, an no amount of input from me is going to change that. If I wasn't careful, we would do nothing but fight about what she eats. Thankfully, of the approximate 15 foods that she'll eat, most of them are ones upon which we agree. I refuse to make it a battle due to the problem with eating disorders.



I remember going to this Thai restaurant before we had her, and there was a couple who came in with a child that was about 4. They ate the Thai food, while the child ate a Happy Meal that they had brought along for him. Both my husband and I were appalled by this. We swore that OUR children would eat all sorts of different foods, by golly. Yea, right. Spoken like a true couple with no kids.



OK - so, this is my advise. Drop trying to convert your husband. It is your choice to be irritated by his attitude or not. Learn to make the choice to be happy, no matter what he does, and to accept who it is that he is and what he wants for himself. You don't have be thrilled, but you DO, for your own happiness, need to let it go and be happy for what you DO have in your marriage. If you don't, this issue will spin off into a life of it's own, and that will hurt you and the marriage.
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#26 Old 10-14-2003, 12:23 AM
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cshives,

I feel for you and your situation!

My husband was pretty resistant at the beginning too...and it took a lot of experimentation. He is still a meat eater, but meat is not allowed in our home. He is okay with that, but then again, he usually only eats about 3 meals a week at home.

I keep hearing about the Vegetarian Meat & Potatoes cookbook. I'm not sure if this would be a good book for both of you. I haven't actually checked it out yet.

At the beginning, I had my husband help me choose recipes that he'd be willing to try.

Although I'm not sure what we'd do if he didn't like pasta back then!

Please keep us posted on how things are going.
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#27 Old 10-14-2003, 12:38 AM
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Dak, I also have long been making food for people. I don't bother to tell them a dish is vegan. I just make it. If they ask what is in it, I tell them what is in it. Period. They may or may not notice that it has no animal products. People absolutely love my food. I've served food to maybe 100 people, 1, 2, 3, 8, 12, 15 at a time. No big catering events. Just groups of 2 to groups of 15. But after they say "wow, that was delicious" and I say, it is entirely plant based, the usual response is: no kidding; I love plants; they are delicious; I love dairy products and eggs and animal too. While a few people don't think vegan food can be anything but bland, I think this is a small minority. It is easy to disabuse them of this notion. It is easy to get people to concur that plant-based meals can be delicious. It is not easy to convince them to limit their dining to plants.



By the way, I'm proud to say that I've prepared a number of dishes for the number one most famous and best vegan chef in the world -- The Freya Dinshah -- in Freya's own kitchen, and gotten rave reviews from Freya, along with requests for my recipes. Conversely, a number of the dishes that i include in my own repertoire, I acquired from Freya, tho usually I make changes -- i don't repeat them exactly.



The fact that people say "gosh that is incredible" in response to things that I prepare, does not convince them to go vegan. It is utterly useless. If they want to go vegan, because they think it is best for them and for the world, they will go vegan; if they don't, they won't.



If someone agrees to go vegan, and can prove that they have gone vegan for a few months, i will consider demonstrating to them how to make my dishes. Otherwise, I don't like to help them.



I always tell people the ingredients. Yet they often can't seem to copy my recipes, simply as a result of knowing the ingredients. They often don't seem to know how to estimate amounts, or how cook things the right amount, or when to add an ingredient.
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#28 Old 10-14-2003, 12:51 AM
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With some recipes, the only way to get them right is to grow the ingredients oneself. Store-bought haricot vert, even from good local farmers, don't compare with the ones I grow myself. Haricot vert are a simple dish. You snip of the woody end of the bean pod and steam the pods for about 8 to 12 minutes, then you serve with a light coating of sunflower oil and salt. That's it. Heaven. If you use the right beans. Machine-based farmers usually grow bush-bean varieties. Machines to pick trellis varieties don't seem to exist. One neighbor who received a sample of my fresh-picked bean pods from my trellis-variety (damn beans climbed over 7 feet high and would have gone higher if I had more trellis) was utterly amazed at the difference -- it's not just me who thinks there is a difference.
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#29 Old 10-14-2003, 12:58 AM
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That said, I have shortcomings. After growing sweet corn for several years, gradually, over the years, the flavor and sweetness has declined, despite using the same cultivars from the same seed companies, and despite doing my best to keep plenty of compost in my soil and green manures and cover crops. Perhaps there is something in my soil that has been depleted over the years -- and not replenished with compost and green manures -- but damned if I know what it is. It could be any one of 1000's of substances. My thinking is that it may be some kind of mineral, not something organic. Because the first year I tried to grow corn, it was absolutely delicious, even tho my soil had not yet accumulated lots of organic matter from years of adding compost and growing green manures.
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#30 Old 10-14-2003, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakinirawk View Post


I don't think omni people in relationships with vegans automatically feel anything is wrong with their behavior.



Omni's automaticly feel that what they do is wrong when you tell them you're veg*n.



The moment they realize it is just 0.01 second before they start looking at your shoes.
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