Am I the only one who doesnt get how this makes sense? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 01-13-2004, 11:26 PM
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I have two friends and a few people in my family who say they love animals so much and hate hearing about all the bad things that happen to them. One of my friends says her biggest pet peeve is cruelty to animals and the other says he loves this film called meatrix and supports organizations like that.

The two people in my family say that they like animals more than people and would do anything to save a animal, one says she would even die for them...

however they all eat meat. Is this normal? I am not tryin to start a debate I am just wondering. It sounds kinda hypocritacl (to me anyway but I could be missing something) but its like saying that you hate smokers and get sick from it but marry a smoker and allow people to smoke in your house.
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#2 Old 01-14-2004, 12:10 AM
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It seems hyprocritical to me as well.. but these people obviously have not reached a point in their lives where they realize (or choose to realize) the connection between companion animals and food animals for example.

I was the same way for years.. I went to school for 2 years to be a veterinarian, adopted every stray I could, joined all kinds of AR groups, yet I still was an omnivore. It had always been in the back of my mind that food animals are still animals, but I was raised in a meat and potatoes family so I think I was reluctant to go veg because of what they would think.



Next time one of these people you know is going on and on and on about how much they love animals, maybe ask them very nicely and innocently, "If you love animals so much, why do you eat them?" DO NOT get in an argument or debate about it, just politely explain to them that you are curious on what their views on vegetarianism are. That may help open their eyes a little. Good luck!
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#3 Old 01-14-2004, 12:34 AM
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Hey! I like your quote!!!!!



Thanks for the help. I have asked one of the friends...the guy and he said I could be a vegetarian but I cant right now. I can afford it?? I was like...ok.....lol anyway thanks for replying
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#4 Old 01-14-2004, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNM03 View Post

The two people in my family say that they like animals more than people and would do anything to save a animal, one says she would even die for them...

however they all eat meat. Is this normal? I am not tryin to start a debate I am just wondering. It sounds kinda hypocritacl



Yeah it's pretty normal. Unless we were raised as veg*ns, most of us here ate meat at some stage while still having an empathy for animals. We just eventually woke up to our double standard or had someone else point it out. Maybe you can educate them in a positive way

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#5 Old 01-14-2004, 02:29 AM
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Yeah, I was talking to my mom about the "would you kill a puppy for money" thread, and she said "no way" and said how it's against her morals to kill another animal. I then asked if she'd kill a cow for money, and before she could answer I said "$1.99 and you can have McDonalds do it for you." She said if she had to kill the cows herself she could never do it, but as long as she doesn't have to do it or see how it's done then she's okay eating them. She has seen the Meet Your Meat video and others, once, (won't watch any of them more than once), but just isn't ready to give up meat yet. .. But she does do a lot of advocacy work for dogs and cats and is generally a very compassionate person, it's just that meat eating is so ingrained in our culture that the alternatives seem to extreme and difficult.
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#6 Old 01-14-2004, 02:38 AM
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I chose to not read the replies to this question so that I could go into this open minded.



Being a "new Vegan" (not a year yet) this is what I feel...



I too was one of those people who never liked and could not stand cruelty to animals. And Dogs... FORGETABOUTIT!



I did however eat meat and a crap load of eggs... I mentioned this before but I will say it again... I use to eat 2 dozen whites a day. Everyday.



NOW that I know what happens to those chickens and such... I can't imagine... flesh meats... never again that's for darn sure!



So I think it's because people can't put 2 and 2 together. They don't want to see an animal in pain or have to suffer at the hand of (wo)man, but they don't realize that the meat on their table went through just that.



Ignorance. Stupid is knowing and doing anyway. Ignorance is simply not knowing.



I know it seems like "how could they NOT know"? Well, I think most meat eaters have never read or witnessed or viewed some of the info that we have as non meat eaters.



That's what I came up with anyway... having been there myself at one time.
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#7 Old 01-14-2004, 02:39 AM
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Thanks for replying.

I been a veggie for almost 11 years now, I will be 22 in a little over a month so I was fairly young deciding to give up meat in a family filled with meat eaters and hunters and never met anyone who was a veggie so its nice to be able to come here and feel understood and that I can ask questions some may think as dumb without feeling that way. I was gonna dl the puppy video, just got done reading about it, but my comp cut me off and stopped the dl so I didnt see it. I think its a cool idea though. My mom sounds alot like yours. I mean I understand her views and since she repects mine I will do the same but I guess part of me keeps hoping someone will change over like I did. This kind of lifestyle I wouldnt ever give up but I sometimes feel lonely in it. Thanks again for being so kind to me about this.

Also....I been a veggie for a while but always felt kinda wrong about trying to change other peoples minds.....do alot of them respond well to it? or should I just not do it? I think I will only bring it up that it doesnt make sense if they say things again that sound contradicting to me.

Sorry if I lost ya in this post! lol



P.s. My icon is one of my fav vegans...alec baldwin and I know he does meet your meat. is it something you recommend I get to show people?? Thanks again!
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#8 Old 01-14-2004, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MNM03 View Post

Thanks for replying.

I been a veggie for almost 11 years now, I will be 22 in a little over a month so I was fairly young deciding to give up meat in a family filled with meat eaters and hunters and never met anyone who was a veggie so its nice to be able to come here and feel understood and that I can ask questions some may think as dumb without feeling that way. I was gonna dl the puppy video, just got done reading about it, but my comp cut me off and stopped the dl so I didnt see it. I think its a cool idea though. My mom sounds alot like yours. I mean I understand her views and since she repects mine I will do the same but I guess part of me keeps hoping someone will change over like I did. This kind of lifestyle I wouldnt ever give up but I sometimes feel lonely in it. Thanks again for being so kind to me about this.

Also....I been a veggie for a while but always felt kinda wrong about trying to change other peoples minds.....do alot of them respond well to it? or should I just not do it? I think I will only bring it up that it doesnt make sense if they say things again that sound contradicting to me.

Sorry if I lost ya in this post! lol



P.s. My icon is one of my fav vegans...alec baldwin and I know he does meet your meat. is it something you recommend I get to show people?? Thanks again!





what puppy video are you talking about?
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#9 Old 01-14-2004, 02:41 AM
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Thanks also for your thoughts songbird...it makes sense I mean I know its hard to see things as a meat eater once you have changed your tune so I was just asking Thanks though for being open minded
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#10 Old 01-14-2004, 02:43 AM
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lol oh there is some thread, i forgot which of the forum called kill a puppy or something and some guy made a video where he asked ppl how much money would it take for them to kill a puppy with their bare hands then after hearing their answers he had a check for that amount and a puppy and was saying how they all had different reactions...its a video, he gives a link, you can dl. you need quicktime i think
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#11 Old 01-14-2004, 02:45 AM
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lol oh there is some thread, i forgot which of the forum called kill a puppy or something and some guy made a video where he asked ppl how much money would it take for them to kill a puppy with their bare hands then after hearing their answers he had a check for that amount and a puppy and was saying how they all had different reactions...its a video, he gives a link, you can dl. you need quicktime i think





OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG....

I need a moment of silence I think. Better yet I think I better stop typing right now, before I say something that will get my eliminated from this forum.
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#12 Old 01-14-2004, 02:52 AM
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lol oh i should of added it says no puppies are harmed in the video because when faced with it no one can do it, lol sorry to scare ya!

in case you or anyone else on here wants it

http://oldeenglish.org/puppy.html
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#13 Old 01-14-2004, 06:18 AM
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lol oh i should of added it says no puppies are harmed in the video because when faced with it no one can do it, lol sorry to scare ya!

in case you or anyone else on here wants it

http://oldeenglish.org/puppy.html



The thread is here https://veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=14039



Interesting concept!
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#14 Old 01-14-2004, 01:55 PM
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You're right, MNM03. It makes no sense. None at all.



Try reading "The Pig Who Sang to the Moon: Emotional Lives of Farm Animals" ... then maybe get your friends/family to read it too. Seems like the kind of thing that would get them to change their attitudes. It's very pro veg (written by a veg*n), but not derisive to omnis.
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#15 Old 01-15-2004, 08:49 AM
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Everyone has already said it: it's very normal to live with the double standard. I was raised eating meat and having pets. You don't eat Mommy, Daddy, or the dogs, but anonymous cows are a different matter. I found it perplexing at times -- I once even told my parents that "baby cows look sad because they know they're going to grow up to be hamburgers" -- but it's the cultural norm you're raised with.



Congratulations on being a long-time veg from such a young age!! I went veg at 11, also, but caved into pressure ....
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#16 Old 01-15-2004, 10:23 AM
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I think for me, if you were to ask me, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago "If you love animals so much, why do you eat them?" I would have answered that it was not possible to be a vegetarian and do the things that i wanted to do, to be the person that i wanted to be. Therefore, i must eat meat in order to survive and thrive. The loss of life was regretable, but necessary.



I wanted to be veg (or had that inclination) from the time that i was about 10 or 11--perhaps even younger, but i can remember from that age. I would continually ask my parents about animals, how they were killed and why, and that i didn't feel comfortable eating them. BUT, my parents always told me that i had to eat meat in order to survive. They would have me talk to their ex-veggie friends about how unhealthy their lifestyle was and so on. I would hear over and over that if i became veggie, i wouldn't be healthy, etc.



In 1992, a girl at my school was vegan (which was cool. she was really committed) and she convinced a lot of girls to go veg (even though they never gave up their leather and stuff.) I flat out told her, in front of the "chic" veggies that i totally respected her for taking the stance that she did--but that veggies who "didn't go all the way" really bothered me.



So, here's where i was at about 15 years old. I was sitting there not happy with eating animals, but not seeing a way not to eat them. Similarly, i saw that i could not eat animals, but in order to play sports, and whatever, i needed leather. I felt that it was wrong to not eat the cow but wear the cow. I thought that was very hypocritical. And i saw so many girls at school doing it (and many are not veg now--it was a "phase" to be cool) which only made it worse. So, i felt that if i must wear the cow, i should probably eat it too--as not to waste. But, i still wasn't comfortable with the idea.



Shortly after starting college, i met a "life vegetarian"--an young indian-american man who had been raised lacto veg (traditional indian diet). He was very tall, very strong, very healthy. And cute too. Anyway, i was really confused. I'd been told that one couldn't be a vegetarian for any length of time, and that it would make you unhealthy. And that there weren't equipment alternatives for things that i wanted to do (like play soccer and go hiking). So, i just kept excusing myself. That was 1994.



Anyway, i took a nutrition class the very next semester. The teacher was very anti-vegetarianism. She would admit that a person could be vegetarian and get their nutrients--but "it was much harder" and one couldn't be "a healthy athlete" if they were vegetarian. She did most of her studies on women's teams, fitness, and protien consumption. She gave some girls a "vegetarian" diet which was unbalanced and mostly salads, low on protien. Other girls got the "vegetarian diet" plus animal protien. They did much better. Later, i learned that her studies were funded by various meat-boards.



So, I learned a lot then, and still thought that i couldn't be a healthy athlete. I looked at people who were vegetarian around me--and other than the indian community, the only other veggies were weird hippie veggies who were usually high, very rarely ate anything healthy, and were continuallly both dirty and sick. I certainly didn't want to be a part of that.



I mean, basicly, i wanted to be myself--and "look normal"--dress the way that i like to dress, and do the things that i liked to do. AND i HONESTLY believed that it wasn't possible to do that and be vegetarian/vegan.



finally, in 1999 and 2000 i did a lot more research--in depth stuff. and i got lots of opinions about things. I looked aruond and decided that i didn't have to be like anyone else to be vegetarian. And to be like everyone else and be omni was stupid (there was a social factor). I also saw pictures of life vegans and veggies--and saw that they were strong, tall, healthy, and in most cases, perfectly normal. some of them had rather odd ideas about things, but i can't fault them for that--i had too.



At that point, i decided to "try" and be vegetarian. Which meant that i was transitioning. I started with a rule that i could handle. First, i would only eat meat when out to eat (if i wanted it) or with family (when they served it). since my famiyl was anti veg (mostly because of the AR connection), i thought it would be easier to get my footing in vegetarianism if i did it "on my own" and then introduced it to them when i understood where i was coming form. Therefore, i was veggie at home, and only omni outside of the home.



I did this for about 4 or 5 months. I was only eating meat once a month--if that--and in the last time i ate meat, i got very sick. That was the end of it for me. Then, three months after that, i went vegan (that transition was to be vegan at home, lacto-ovo outside of the home, again to get my footing). I always gave mself the caveat that if i felt unhealthy, i would go back to eggs or dairy, from certain sourcse. that if i needed to, i could go back to meat.



i don't imagine that i could go back to meat, but eggs and dairy (although lactose intolerant) are not "so bad" when i get them from the sources that i trust.



Anyway, that was my journey. I transitioned in late 1999, went veg in 2000.
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#17 Old 01-15-2004, 11:25 AM
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That's a great story Zoebird, thank you for sharing it.
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#18 Old 01-15-2004, 08:37 PM
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Sometimes it takes a while to really make the connection between the neatly packaged and aseptic looking cuts of meat in the butcher's case and the fact that an animal had to DIE for it to get there.



I know it took a while for me to get to that point and my husband is still working on it.



I abhored animal cruelty but it didn't click with me for a long while that the steak on my plate was the result of cruelty. Too many mental images of Old McDonald's friendly farm with cows placidly chewing cud and pigs happily romping in the mud.

I am the user formerly known as MrsKey
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#19 Old 01-15-2004, 10:57 PM
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yes it is awesome to hear all the stories, and thanks for all the feedback.
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